Stalled series? There's Hope!

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I have to disagree with you there. The Sopranos will very likely be considered classics, much like the films The Godfather and Goodfellas.

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not trying to start a fight, but I probably wouldn't have gone off on that tangeant if I were you. You never know who might be on the boards and who you might be offending. I happen to be gay and hate the way the companies treat older shows. Maybe I don't have "traditional values" (I just am who I am) but I don't see what that has to do with the shows I buy or not.

I am not a Sopranos fan, but fans of mob movies like The Godfather and Goodfellas embrace the show.

There are a lot of great shows on the air now, I think people sometimes look at the past with rose-colored glasses. I agree that TV 10-20-30-40 years ago in general is better than tv now (mainly due to all of the reality garbage that clogs up the airwaves), but there are still some excellent shows out there if you look hard enough. Brothers And Sisters, Supernatural, Lost, Ugly Betty, Dexter, Weeds, House, Law And Order: SVU are just a few examples of excellent programs that are still currently in production (I love Desperate Housewives and Grey's Anatomy as well but accept their shortcomings).

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Exactly. It's not like TV shows (or life and society) in the 1950's and 1960's was perfect. People just have forgotten the bad stuff.

EDIT: I'm not saying that everyone has to enjoy or watch new shows (if you don't like it, you don't like it) but dismissing all modern TV as bad is the same thing as if a 15 year old kid dismisses black and white TV shows or movies based on it being 'old'.

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There's alot of truth to that! Some shows I had fond memories of....but then seeing them 30 years later, I say "What was I thinking?! This sucks!".

Like the kid resisting B&W stuff, too- I had resisted some modern shows [at the time] simply because they were modern and popular (Seinfeld, and the Simpsons, for two).

I remember once putting on an old Cedrick Hardwicke movie from the 30's when my [then] 10 year-old nephew was visiting- I'll never forget his reaction- he was totally flabbergasted. It was just so foreign and unusual to him- compared to what he had come to know as movies...and compared to what he knew as "noraml" social protocol and human behavior. Hehe...that was many years ago...but I'll never forget his shocked reaction- it was as if he were seeing a Martian!

But, in my opinion, the vast majority of the new stuff is shallow and offensive...as are many aspects of our modern culture in general. (And I guess these shows are just a reflection of that culture)

For instance, from a derscription I read somewhere, I was led to believe that I might possibly like Curb Your Enthusiasm- but when i watched a clip of it on the internet, I was appalled at the language and attitude expressed in it- and the fact that all the characters were always just yelling and screaming at each other...what a nerve-wracking show!

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Same thing happened to me, overuse of bad language ---- no thanks!

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I've lways wondered why, given the major networks' affiliations with their video companies -- CBS with Paramount, NBC with Universal, Fox with Fox, etc. -- why they didn't use the summer dog days to promote their classic DVD lines.

Take an evening where a network is just getting killed or has awful demographics (read "old folks") -- Saturday springs to mind. Run the shows they have video rights for two-week runs. Call it "A Classic Summer Saturday." The ratings couldn't be any worse, the programming would be inexpensive and it would be free advertising for shows they sell. They could throw in a "This show is available on DVD at fine video stores everywhere or at XYZ Network.com" announcement or ad. I suspect there would be a spike in sales of those shows and the network would make money both ways.

But what do I know?

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I don't like cussing when it's overdone, but Curb Your Enthusiasm is such a hilarious show that it doesn't matter. The first two seasons of that show were brilliant. Yes, Larry swears like a sailor, but at the same time, he is the anti-hero of the show. He is the main character and protaginist, but he's always getting into trouble and biting off more than he can chew, so it's not like he's depicted as a role model or anything. Personally, I think he equalled Seinfeld with that show. Some of the episodes are so funny I can laugh just thinking about it (like the "beloved aunt" typo or when the deranged nanny started going nuts when she hears Looney Tunes music).

And I agree with Travis, the 50's and 60's weren't so great if you were a minority.

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why repeat classic television when you have plenty of cheapo forgettable reality tv fluff to shove down and dumb down America's throat?

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I generally have a problem with the relativist view that all eras automatically have the same quotient of bad television. Plus, 'what' constitutes poor programs in peoples' eyes? The classic era obviously has its aesthetic high points, like "Playhouse 90," "US Steel Hour," "Omnibus," and whatnot, which the critics championed. But what was downright BAD? Was it things like second or third-tier westerns? Innocuous fluff like "Celebrity Bowling?" Was it the local kiddie programs, with hosts wearing sailor caps or cowboy hats, dragging out old Popeye cartoons? Teen dance party shows? Back then, the critics seemed to razz things like genteel party-game shows like "What's My Line?" and "Masquerade Party." But are these shows really bad? I find them rather charming myself. Was it the mild-mannered silliness of "Mister Ed" that was so egregiously lacking? Not my cup of tea, but nice fare for the kids to watch at grandma's house on an early Sunday evening. Just what it aspired to be. I've seen all sorts of old-time obscurities, including many short-lived shows, and I just haven't encountered much that was all-out awful. I really have to grasp at straws to find examples, like the tacky, made-for-syndication "Night Court USA" or the notoriously idiotic "My Mother, the Car."

Proportionately, I find that nowadays, at very least, 75% of television to be gut-wrenchingly unwatchable... the horrid daytime talk shows with their degenerate subject-matter, the grotesque self-absorbedness of characters on reality shows, the sitcoms that can't go for more than 60 seconds without flinging out a crude sexual innuendo, the ever-increasing length of commercial breaks and the ever-increasing abrasiveness of said commercials, the crime shows that wallow in perverted subcultures each week between putrid autopsy footage, and now even the news channels deem that the asinine exploits of Spears, Lohan, etc., constitute legitimate news. I used to enjoy just the simple daily presence of television in the house, but it's now just too obnoxiously vile for my tastes. It reached a point that it was no longer worth navigating through, even if there were a few hidden gems scattered around. Oh, well. Does any of this define 'bad tv?' I dunno. I guess I don't even particularly care. But when making comparisons, I just can't accept that the percentage of all-out drek is some kind of steady constant from decade to decade.

Anyway, I think one of the reasons classics fans (like me) are so spirited in these discussions is that DVD's, for us, are the only game in town... the only viewing option. Couple this with the fact that in many cases, we haven't seen some of these old favorites in ten, twenty, thirty years. That's a LONG wait. By the way, is it all that much of a 'personal' insult that someone slam modern television? I do know many people who have all but abandoned current tv, as it either didn't address their tastes, or they feel it's an affront to their moral standards, something they naturally refuse to compromise. Sure, they are mostly older folks, so naturally they don't count for much in the current pop-culture paradigm. Considering the dismissive treatment they receive, I can hardly begrudge a bit of curmudgeonly griping. In fact, it seems downright warranted at times.

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but can you not say there is even one decent current show? If you honestly feel like Supertrain and Pink Lady And Jeff are better than the best shows on television now, you're no more openminded than the teenagers who think anything who predates Seinfeld and Friends (and I am sure to these kids, those shows are now "ancient television" as well) is unwatchable because it's old.

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I got caught up in it this afternoon, too but... What's this thread about again?

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I just want to thank Bert for a great, great post! It mirrors my opinions to a tee, and I appreciate the thoughtful, concise way in which it was written.

Gary "perhaps the thread has wandered a bit, but every so often these discussions are enlightening and beneficial if kept on a civil level - which this one has" O.

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I'm kind of like that in the second part of it-- series like "Friends," "Seinfeld," "Raymond," and "24" are very much affronts to my standards. Although I will not crucify those that enjoy those series, I myself cannot stand them. My standard on sex and violence is this: I am a "moderate sex, moderate violence" person. What this means is that I mostly enjoy the series of the past because (unless I'm incorrect) they were "generally cleaner"-- in other words, sure, they may have had some sexual content or some violence, but what was there was generally a lot less than what there is now and what there was in the '90's. I think (and I may be incorrect) that the first couple of seasons' worth of "MTM" had a lot less sexual content than one season's worth of "Friends." As for violence, I think that the first season's worth of "Five-O" had a lot less violence than the first of "24."

In other words, as I said, I'm willing to abide with the occasional sex-related scene that "MTM" had, or the occasional really violent scene that "Five-O" had. I will not abide with excessive sex, like "Friends," or excessive violence, like "CSI" or "24."

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Yeah, I'm pretty puzzled by this release as well. I think even die-hard Seinfeld fans would admit that season 1 has its moments but is more of historical interest than anything. None of the five episodes stand as well-known classics for the series--I think casual fans would love a one- or two-disc best-of with the most popular episodes, but I really don't understand the point of a season 1 release, especially since you can pick up S1&2 together for 15-20 bucks when Best Buy or Circuit City has their practically bi-monthly sale on them.

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My thoughts, exactly! Had they done this years ago, I might still be watching TV today. (And how come they dopn't consider old folks as a good demographic? Those over 55 typically have their houses paid off and have the highest discretionary income of any group. If I were an advertiser spending big bucks...there would be the very people I'd want to attract! But as usual...everything is bass ackwards...just like the radio industry- catering to 13 year-olds...and look where that industry is today!)

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Bravo! Bravo!!

You know- now that I think about it, the classic shows may have ranged from high-quality to silly- but I can honestly say that I never recall being offended by one of those shows; and it seemed, that at any given time, there was always something watchable on- despite the fact that were usually less than 10 channels in just about every market.

Plus, silly or not...the shows were truly entertaining. They weren't out to shock or to make a political statement- they were just entertaining....and took ones mind off of reality- which is what entertainment is supposed to do.

And, as you said- the commercials! Even if TV were loaded with good, intelligent, moral, high-quality shows today- I STILL would not watch it, just because of those annoying, long, idiotic commercials!! Just the background music of those commercials is enough to drive one crazy!

I saw a modern commercial while at someone's house recently- It had a guy and a girl on the beach- very sexual and very suggestive....I had no idea what it was trying to sell! (I thought either douches or perfume...but my friend says jeans...)

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And there's alot less violence in the first season of 24 than every other season. "I'm gonna need a hacksaw."

I've been muting commercials for year and my life is all the better for it. Even if you're just watching the news or any random show, hit the mute button during the commercials and your time spent viewing TV will be much more enjoyable.

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Yup current commercials are horrible. But don't go blasting the classic commercials of the 70's and 80's. I have 4 dvd's worth of them, and most have more heart and soul(those early 80's McDonald's commercials are absolute gold) than most tv shows. Never thought I'd defend commercials, but they deserve it

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I didn't realize that! I thought that "24" was extremely violent right from the start, being a 2000's series as compared to 1968. This is why I, for one, have refused on principle to see it. I do recall reading that it had a lot of sexual content.

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Call me sentimental, but I want season two of the stalled FLIPPER DVDs.

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Same here. A well written post. Very accurate as well.

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I hate anything that's popular right now, if something has a huge following it usually means it's bad television by my standards, the less popular (or cancelled) shows are often more to my liking. Following fashions and popular opinions was never my game, and the current focus on sex and bad language is pathetic and cheap IMHO. Cheapness and 'women's television' sells these days, how 'cool' is that...?

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Did this post come from an indie rock message board?

I know some people hate everything that is popular to be 'different' (like everyone else that hates everything that is popular) but if a show is good, who cares if it's popular or not?

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Oh! I have to agree with ya there! I own a DVD set of classic commercials, and I want more! There are commercials from 30 years ago that I still remember today, and wish I could see again! (I'm laughing just thinking about them now)

I can't get over the ammount of noise in todays commercials! I mean, talking (not in normal voices, but in rehearsed drones that bear little resemblance to real human speech); sound effects (often explosions and crashes and other very distracting, annoying and unnatural sounds!!!) with a highly orchestrated music track (Not pleasant music, but frantic, brash noise with a very strong beat and bass-line)- it's enough to drive me crazy just when I walk past the electronics section in Wal*Mart and these aweful commercials are playing on the TVs!

How are these commercials doing the advertisers any good, when they are so distracting and annoying? -and when they drive people away or force you to mentally tune them out, rather than creating a pleasant, inviting atmosphere that at least wouldn't be offensive?

I swear- we're living in a world of lunacy! Thank goodness that the junk emminating from Hollywood and it's sponsors can be easily avoided!

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Speaking of commercials, does anyone have the old Maxwell House commercial with Vivian Vance? You know, the one where she drives the truck.

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hat's my philosophy of life. What the majority does is usually a good indicator of what not to do. The majority (at least these days) always seems to reflect the lowest common denominator. (Just look at the political candidates who have emerged through the primaries!)

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I know it's off topic, but this is the caliber of commercials from the early 80's:YouTube - McDonalds - Little Sister TV Commercial

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I used to love those Bounty paper towel commercials with Nancy Walker!

And ya know what was great back in the 60's & 70's, was that there were alot of local commercials- produced by small local and regional businesses- and they were often quite memorable! (I can still practically repeat verbatim the Automobile Club Of America's [a driving school] commercial from the 60's-early 70's!)

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I love Nancy Walker! Shame Rhoda isnt out on DVD though....

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This actually used to happen. Well, not promotion of DVDs, but CBS used to have a program called "Summer Theatre" where they ran all (and there were a lot) the pilots that were not picked up. In several instances, a summer pilot would pull in numbers big enough that the series was put into production.

I fail to see why a program that a network has already paid for is not an economical fit for such a summer series (and then they could also run commercials for their own classic DVD series).