Stalled series? There's Hope!

Re: Stalled series? There's Hope!

This is the first time I've come to this site in a long time.

I used to post about the shows I wanted to see released or state why I believe a series release did not 'perform to expectations' but was continually put down by some of the know-it-all-people who come here and trash the posts claiming 'The series didn't sell, get over it, its not coming. No one wants it, etc.' and its nice to see there may be some hope on the horizon.

For me, I've stopped buying everything TV on DVD.

I used to be quite the spender and supporter of TV on DVD but after the Dynasty debacle, where Paramount is releasing it piece meal in volume sets, I just gave up. In today's economic climate, its just too expensive to buy piece-mealed then, only to have the studios release the shows I supported seasonally released with extra bonuses unavailable previously in a boxed set. I didn't want to go through that with the volume sets like I did with I Love Lucy.

Also, after years upon years of waiting for many of the shows I purchased to see completion, I guess I just lost interest.

So, here's to hoping some of these shows will see the light of day:

Knots Landing
Party of Five (last tv on dvd I bought)
All in the Family
One Day at A Time
Charlie's Angels
Eight is Enough
Alice
Six Million Dollar Man
Bionic Woman

Re: Stalled series? There's Hope!

Hi Brett, I remember reading your posts. I have been checking on news for a while but, like you, I've stopped buying everything TV on DVD right now for the simple reason that nothing released has been of interest to me. I wish classic tv would pick up again on dvd. And not just one release but several in a month like it used to be.

Re: Stalled series? There's Hope!

Regarding stalled series, has Universal stopped putting out classic TV releases? It seems like it's been months and months since we've seen any announcement out of them regarding both classic shows they have in progress (i.e. Murder She Wrote, Rockford Files) or new shows. They have apparently been licensing a few out. And they haven't announced any classic shows that are new to DVD. Yet they've been offering them up online like crazy (Netflix and Hulu come to mind).

Honestly, it seems like CBS Paramount is the only one continually issuing the classics on DVD (and despite the occasional screw-up i.e. The Fugitive, they are generally doing a good job). Sony, Fox and Universal appear to be pulling away from the biz for the most part.

Does anyone have any insight as to what's going on? Is everyone moving away from packaged media towards internet streams where they can get advertising revenue? My understanding is the Return on Investment is (or was) much greater with DVD vs. internet releases.

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Thanks Robert!

I still check the news on TVonDVD.com because I would like to buy more TV on dvd but what's being announced currently does not interest me either.

Like you, I'm all for Classic TV on dvd!

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it seems like TV-DVD has only become good for current programs. There are five TV-DVD sets coming soon on my "must get" list, and only Family Ties season 4 ISN'T 2007-2008 related (well, South Park's 11th season started in early 2007, but still... it's hardly vintage). There are so many great programs from the 50's-90's that are just sitting around collecting dust and the companies are doing nothing about it.

Re: Stalled series? There's Hope!

I would love to see the rest of Superboy come to DVD (Seasons 2-4). The recent "Superboy DVD Campaign" proves that there is a large demand for the rest of the show on DVD.

I'm not sure if this counts as an abandoned/stalled show, but I would also like to get SpongeBob Squarepants - Season 5:Volume 2 on DVD. I hope the execs at Paramount will confirm the release soon.

The Marvel Action Hour animated series is another show I'm interested in seeing get completed. The fans got the Fantastic Four portion of the Marvel Action Hour back in 2005, but I hope BVHE (or if some other studio picks up the license to issue it) at some point releases the Iron Man one.

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I used to check TVshowsondvd.com every day to see keep abreast of the releases of classic shows.....but the good stuff has become so infrequent, why bother?

And even if something good does come out occasionally, I will no longer buy it unless it is something that compeletes a set I've already started collecting. I will no longer buy the first season or two of any show, for fear that I will have to wait years to get future seasons...if at all.

What they've with All In The Family and Taxi is a disgrace! If sales were good enough for them to put out more than the initial season, then they should warrant the rest of the series- because naturally, the people who bought seasons 1-6 of AITF and 1-3 of Taxi, will almost certainly buy the remaining seasons- so what's the problem?!

Personally, I don't care about extras or other frills (The extras usually royally suck- and even when they are good, you watch them once and that's it- just give me the shows...in a timely fashion!)

This treatment has really tuirned me off of buying DVDs. I had started amassing quite a collection...but I've stopped- as having a bunch of incomplete series doesn't interest me...nor does waiting 10 years to complete a series.

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I agree with the same thing. It's funny that after three or four seasons, a company decides to throw in the towel. If the first few seasons justified another set, why stop? There is no reason any series with three or more seasons out on DVD should be abandoned. I mean, it takes Fox 2/3 of the way into Bob Newhart to realize he's not going to make the same money for the company that The Simpsons (which seems to have gotten abandoned too even) does?

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But you're guaranteeing that the show won't be continued if you don't buy it.

The problem with classic TV, and the subject of an upcoming editorial, is that there can be HUGE dropoff between sales of season sets. You want to know why a show got to season 4 and not further? It's because 30% of the people that bought season 1 collected up to season 4. The dropoff is simply too huge for the companies to continue releasing the show. I have sales data from one studio, and they saw nearly a 70% dropoff between seasons 1 and 2 for a series. YIKES!

Gord

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well, one thing the studios don't seem to consider is that a lot of fans don't necessarily rush to the store to get season 3 or something of a show they like. They'll get it in their own time. I have a friend who bought Roseanne and Golden Girls season 1's when they first came out, and three years on he's just finally getting around to getting the rest of the sets. Just because something hasn't sold YET doesn't mean it's not going to sell ever. When it's an older show, people don't feel the need to rush and get it asap to catch up before the next season begins as is the case with Lost, 24, Prison Break, Housewives, etc...

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Gord,

The dropoff in sales is a very valid concern and I look forward to reading your article. If I may please make a request: assuming you can get some comments from CBS/P, please address how the use of split seasons has impacted the sales decline between seasons. Obviously this technique must be working for them or they wouldn't use it so frequently. Do the split seasons partially mitigate the dropoffs because more stores will stock them or because the price point is (in theory) lower for a half season.

I'm personally not crazy about split seasons but if it makes these releases economically viable I'm more than happy to support them.

Thanks.

Steve

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So does this mean the studio gives up or is it possible they would pick it up again in the future? Doesn't give me a strong feeling about completing some series I've already begun collecting.

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Steve, I've heard (from more than one studio), that retailers were scared of high-priced classic TV sets, so they put pressure on the studios to reduce the price, which resulted in the split seasons. They'd rather have two sets at $34.95 than one set at $70. I believe the first split set was Fox's season 2, vol 1 release of Lost in Space.

I don't think I'll get any co-operation from CBS/Paramount right now; I didn't even bother approaching them for the article.

Gord

Re: Stalled series? There's Hope!

But i don't quite understand that, In a few instances sure it can makes sense. But most of the split sets you have two-sets @ $39.99 msrp over 1 set at $49.99 msrp. What makes more sense to me is retailers would prefer the 1 set for shelf space purposes. This simply cries of studios trying to maximize profits in most cases. Which from the start i was very much against. But i have warmed up to it aslong as they follow through till the end of shows run.

Edit To Add: I see what your doing your doubling the msrp which is a copout in a way. If a show was originally being released with a full season ala dynasty for $49.99 msrp. Then you come along and for Season 3 and give the reason you did it just does not fly. Now for a show that has never come out and you want to say if they were to release a full season set it would be double the msrp. Fine that is one thing but to change the rules in the middle of the game. No doesn't fly for me.

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Of course that's why they do it. It's a win-win for the studios and the retailers because the retailers get the lower price they want on individual releases and it doubles (or more) the studio and retailer's take in the end. It's a business so they're going to go for as much money as they can.

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Gord, thank you. I understand your reluctance to approach CBS/P although in my opinion your earlier editorial that may have caused this impasse was entirely accurate and justified. They've done so much for classic TV on DVD that I feel badly that their reputation has taken a major hit recently. At the same time, they did it to themselves and have nobody else to blame.

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Whats is up with CBS Paramount? They have stalled several of my shows as well as other studios. I dont care whether its a split season or a full season set as long as as I get to finish the series.

Here is a list of my stalled series:

Baa Baa Black Sheep
Seaquest DSV
Mork and Mindy
The Big Valley
Simon and Simon
St Elsewhere
Fall Guy
Hart to Hart
TJ Hooker
Quincy ME

I am anxiously awaiting to see how they doe with Jake and the Fatman as well as Cannon.

Thanks

Curt*K

Re: Stalled series? There's Hope!

I think "Sex & the City" Season 6, vol 1 might have beat that by a few months.

Re: Stalled series? There's Hope!

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That's accurate, actually; I just checked. We posted news on 5/14/04 that HTF owner Ron Epstein had posted word from Fox about possibly splitting Lost In Space Season 2, for the reasons Gord suggested. That S2, V1 set actually came out in September. Meanwhile, SexATCity S6V1 streeted on 5/18/04.


It's not just the editorial. It may not even be that at all. CBS/Par is also upset with us for other things, such as when they send info and art to retailers that isn't meant for the press's eyes just yet, and then my retailer friends forward it on to me and I go ahead and post it. So I guess we're upsetting their marketing plans somehow, or the natural order of things, or whatever.

What they simply don't get, I suppose, is that in an internet world it makes no difference. A typical fan of a show doesn't give a crap if he sees art and extras first at our site, or at a retailer's website. And if someone sees it at the retailer site first, then they'll probably send us e-mails telling us that we're falling down on the job, because someone - a retailer! - beat us with this "news".

So what would you do in my shoes? The only possible response I have for the studio about this situation is "tough"...which doesn't really earn us any friends over there.

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If a studio doesn't want their info leaked prematurely they shouldn't send it out to anyone period. With the internet, all bets are off once the info starts floating in cyberspace via e-mail or however else they distribute their info to retailers. If secrecy is that important they should obtain non-disclosure agreements.

Also, your site provides the kind of free publicity that thousands of dollars of ads can't buy. I would think a studio would welcome a mention one of your news stories. Such a mention will often get posted to HTF, sites devoted to that particular series, and other DVD sites. It strikes me as being someone disingenuous for a studio to want all this free publicity but also complain because you posted it a week sooner than they wanted (I'm making up the time period, but the point is relevant). With advertising budgets being cut across many firms, why complain about getting some free publicity?

Again, if they don't want info that is subject to change released then they should just sit on it until the details are ready to be made public. Alternatively simply list the artwork/extras as TBA.

If I were in this position I'd try to create a dialogue emphasizing the upside to both the studio and the website. If either side wants to put parameters around the process of announcements, get them on the table ahead of time, secure mutual agreement on the rules, and abide by them throughout the working relationship.

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CBS/Paramount has really changed over the years. They used to have excellent customer service and seemed pretty fan-friendly but after a while they really turned their back on fans completely.

Even though most of the classics aren't my thing, I appreciate that they're actually releasing them, but what with their lazy "Some episodes may be edited and music changed" message included on every release and other things (in an article on reality TV DVD releases, one higher-up had the audacity to say that they check out fan message boards to determine releases, yet the overwhelming demand from Survivor fans for the series to be released in order was completely ignored and most of the early seasons likely to collect dust in the vault in favor of inferior later editions), they're completely out of touch with fans, which makes no sense for a company of their stature.

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But really how is it the studios gauge the timeline of consumers purchasing a release? It doesn't make much sense. I just recently purchased Berverly Hills 90210 sn1. It's been out for quite a while. I also plan on picking up the second season of Thundercats which has been out for some time . I think most consumers don't rush to buy tv dvd's in the first few months. There are a lot of seasons and continutations I will buy, just not within the acceptable "time limit" they give us.

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Certainly this is the main point we have tried to emphasize with them, and other studios (all "majors") that have sometimes had similar complaints, for years now (and one would think it's a point so obvious that it doesn't need repeating). Nevertheless, we still get this complaint from time to time. I guess a couple of the majors feel that their marketing/publicity "machine" is big enough that they don't really need us.

On the other hand, if that's the case then I have to wonder why the same retailer material I get my early info/art from will sometimes mention a point like "this release is for a top-requested show at TVShowsOnDVD.com". From that I can't help but think that it seems we (TSoD) are of benefit to them when it comes to using that factoid to try to convince retailers to stock their shelves with this item, but otherwise we're "in the way". Whatever.

Anyway, I'm probably getting waaaay too much into the "airing dirty laundry" territory here, so this part of the discussion has to be over; sorry. I merely wanted to point out that sometimes relationship issues with "press" (such as our site) and the "source" (such as this studio) goes beyond what would be considered the obvious cause (such as Gord's editorial).

A lesson to be taken a step beyond this situation, perhaps. Music replacement issues, and indeed entire release hold-ups, may have reasons that go way beyond info that is publicly available. And, also, the reasons why a studio (or rather, an individual who works at a studio) reacts the way they do (or possibly chooses not to react) when questioned about it.



No doubt. But then, so has almost every other major studio; they're not the lone ranger here. Times change...it's a fact of life. We play the cards we're dealt.



C'mon, now...put yourself in their shoes. How the heck can they make a decision TODAY about putting out the next release, based on whether or not someone might buy the existing releases sometime in the future? It's been about a year and a half since 90210 S1 came out; how can they count on that sale in earlier decisions?

Let's take an example; pretend this is about any long-running classic show with many seasons (90210? Wonder Years? Ally McBeal? Whatever you want!). I'm the studio; I put out Season 1 and it sells great. I want to put out S2 three months later. How can I gauge sales of S1 in time to release S2 in just a few months? Well, I probably have to guess, based on the response from retailers, and how willing they are to stock it on their shelves. THEY are anticipating big fan purchases, so as the studio I can guess that S2 is good to go the following quarter. S1 ships, sales numbers the first week turn out to be good, so sure...final approval is given to announce S2 for 3 months later. I put that second season out, and the numbers are still good, but half of what S1 sold. Okay, I guess I'll put S3 out, but maybe I'm not as enthusiastic any more...after all, I've got this other unreleased property over there that fans are yelling at me for not putting out. Maybe releasing S1 of it is more "important" now than releasing S3 of this show? Well, I'll go for S3 anyway. Wow, now it's got lower sales than even S2 had. Hmmmm...maybe I should take into account that Bryan and other fans haven't bought S1 yet, but maybe intends to buy it as soon as a year from now?

No, from a business perspective it is not feasible for them to "count on" sales that haven't happened yet, and they can't guarantee their bosses will ever happen. Besides, a year and a half later the list price has probably been marked down, possibly more than once, so the studio isn't getting the "full value" that was planned on for their sales projections of that title.

If fans take the point of view that "I want this item, but not at the price the studio is willing to charge upon release", then you have to realize that the studio exec considers that ALMOST (but not quite) like a no-sale: you're gonna buy it used (no profit for them), rent it (little or no profit for them) or wait for a mark-down (highly reduced profit for them, and after they've already "written it off" in their minds). On the other hand, if you buy it during first-week-of-release sales and get it as a loss leader somewhere, the studio still gets their full wholesale price that they charged Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Amazon, DVDEmpire or whoever, so the studio is quite happy with that situation.

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Well it's definitely a "catch-22". Buy the first season to show the studio you support the series with the hopes that they'll follow suit with consecutive seasons, OR, hold off on purchasing the first season using the "wait-and-see" approach to determine whether consecutive season will be released.

As for me, I'd LOVE to buy all the shows I'm interested in, but many of us are on extremely tight budgets, especially with today's economy. Over the past 2 years I've fallen so far behind on my collections, it isn't even funny. With that in mind, I'm not in a position to take a gamble on the first season of a show when there's no guarantee that it will be continued. I know the song and dance. "How can you expect the studio to release more seasons if you don't buy the first?". Well, not everyone can afford to take that chance, especially a collector such as myself who collects series with the sole purpose of seeing them through to completion. When I buy the first season of a show, I am investing in that series. I want to see that series through to the end. But, money doesn't grow on trees and I have to be wise with how I spend it, and if that means overlooking certain shows for others that have a chance to be finished, then so be it.

Like I said, a "catch-22"...........

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Maybe that drop-off is a result of the studios taking so long to release subsequent seasons, though?

I used to operate under the premise of buying the first seasons, and hoping for more...but after being stiffed on so many show.... (I think the Twilight Zone is the only complete series I own!) I just won't do it anymore.

I'd say if a classic show was popular enough to run on TV for many years...it'll sell on DVD. There are some pretty obscure shows that were put out on DVD...and there are popular, highly-rated shows that languish.

The fact that bootleggers often offer the incomplete shows which the studios refuse to continue, speaks volumes as to their viability.

I'm not a person who normally spends alot of money on luxury/entertainment items...but I was really stoked about my favorite classic TV shows coming out on DVD, and was willing to indulge in them heartily- but after having a collection filled with a few seasons of many stalled shows, and waiting years, only to have my prospects of completing these series dashed rather than encouraged......I have virtually stopped purchasing DVDs.

This treatment has really left a bad taste in my mouth...and has really soured me on collecting the shows that I love. Every time I look at my collection, instead of it being a joy, it is a reminder of the assininity of these studios.

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Yeah, I get it. I've always thought if your a fan of a show buy the dvd as soon as it's released to promote future releases. But that's where I'm stumped. If season 1 of a show sells great, how can the second season do worse, and the third even less? Obviously if you buy the first season of a show your a fan and are going to want to continue the seasons. Do fans lose interest in the series and call it quits, or is it they just get back logged and need time to catch up? In the meantime the studio thinks there's no interest, and abandons a title. If this is the case then maybe we should start blaming ourselves(I know I'm guilty with slacking on a few titles) and not the studios.

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I believe it is a little of both. And I believe that both happen all the time. There is series that I bought but only up to a certain season... as once I got to a certain point in the series I pretty much lost interest in the series. And then again there is series I bought that I am extremely behind on because I have limited funds to work with... and can usually only place 1 order per month.

I still need the final three seasons of Seinfeld... but I couldn't afford to buy them when they were released... so I have to buy them when I can afford to. I am a big fan of JAG... but yet I just did order season 5 yesterday... even though season 6 was released a while back ago.

Unfortunately both cases happen all the time. All you can do is... do your best to support your favorite shows and hope for the best.

I personally love it when I am able to complete a series. But I also am the type that if a series stops midway (or where ever) I am happy that I got at least part of the series.

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well, it doesn't make sense that the companies act like the initial sales are the only ones that matter. They totally forget all of the Target, Best Buy, Circuit City, Amazon, etc... sales that might entice people. Like I mentioned earlier, my friend bought The Golden Girls season 1 the day of release, but while it's one of my fave shows, he never really felt the urge to run out and buy the sets since it's on all the time and plus he had other things to spend money on. But last week, he bought season 2 and 3 at Target on sale for 17.99. Both of those seasons have been out since 2005, but yet there are people buying it in 2008. The companies forget that there is a difference with older shows and with current shows that come out a few weeks before the season premiere ala 24, Lost, Heroes, Desperate Housewives, etc... A lot of people buying those shows might've missed out during the season and didn't TIVO/DVR it or something, but plan to watch the next season as it unfolds, so they'll buy it as soon as it comes out so they can catch up. This isn't the case with old favorites from 10, 20, 30, 40+ years ago, the fans can watch them at their own pace, and sometimes they might not feel compelled to buy it on the week of release, but that doesn't mean they don't intend to eventually purchase it.

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I buy shows when I can afford to and in no particular order i have season 1 of so many shows and yet to buy seasons 2 etc of many of them. whilst others I have lots of them but hardly any complete sets. Price has alot to do with my purchases if a show I want is on sale I will buy it. Like I finally got hold of Prison Break - Season 1 and Bones - Season 2 because I could finally afford them