Could Lack of "1080p/24" Be The Problem?

Rented "National Treasure: Book of Secrets" last night and popped it in my Panasonic '10A Blu ray player, and, like almost all titles I view, I wasn't that impressed...sure, it was clean, but it didn't really "jump off the screen" with blistering improvements on DVD like the Blu ray camp claims -- my player is set to output 1080p to my Sony KDS-50A2020 SXRD rear projection HDTV, but I'm beginning to wonder if the lack of 1080p/24 output on my player and the TV's lack of being able to ACCEPT 1080p/24 even if I HAD a player that output it is contributing to this...is 1080p/24 really that necessary or mind blowing to the point that it would change the way people who DON'T have that technology see their high definition media? Do I need to worry I'm not seeing 1080p/24 for any reason?

Most high def discs just don't "do it for me"...I still see bits of grain and noise in the background shots, and to be honest, most just look like good DVD SHOULD look like -- there's a lack of that "3-D, depth imagery" that you see on LCDs or is advertised by BD proponents like Sony...is this my TV, or is it the lack of 1080p/24? I keep my Blu ray player's DNR (noise reduction) ON for DVD and Blu ray, and even with this circuit on, I can still see some fuzzy noise in background scenes of Blu rays...not CONSTANTLY, but most discs have this...

Re: Could Lack of "1080p/24" Be The Problem?

IMO, not really, 24fps is not "mind blowing". Most Blu-ray/HD DVD-titles (at least film-based!) are 24fps on the disc, so if you have BOTH the player and TV/projector that supports also 24fps, you´ll get less of that minor "judder" that you can see (or should I say: You MIGHT see) in some of the films/scenes/shots, mainly where the camera is panning or tilting, I guess.

Read this link for more info:
High-Def FAQ: What's the Big Deal About 1080p24? | High-Def Digest
One important quote: "1080p24 output is only beneficial to content originally photographed at 24 frames per second".

IMO, that minor "judder" don´t personally bother me much, so I´ve no hurry of getting that new 24fps TV-set. At some point, though.


Oh boy. Most films are shot in "film", and e.g. "grain" is natural part of the film stock. Some have more and some have less, but grain won´t go anywhere with e.g. Blu-ray-titles (it´ll GO away with digital animation-titles like "Cars" and "Ratatouille" - they are not "shot in film"). I´m afraid your expectations are just too high - and also unrealistic in some ways. It´s also hard to say for sure, that is your TV 100% correctly calibrated, etc etc. There are zillion things that could matter.


It´s not "lack of 24fps". Film has grain and some other issues. e.g. "300" will be very grainy (originally), no matter how well the set is calibrated, no matter how good your TV is etc.

So again, about those expectations...


I would keep them definitely "off". You don´t need any "phony" picture processing with Blu-ray/HD DVD-films. 1080p will keep the quality high (of course, not always - there are some mediocre releases/transfers).

They *might* help with SD DVD (IMO, I would keep them "off" with SD DVD also) and some TV-signals (with those I could keep them "on" for some cases).

Just my 2 cents, others might have some other ideas.

Re: Could Lack of "1080p/24" Be The Problem?

By the way, 1080p/24 and the 'noise' you're seeing (I take it it is actual grain you're actually supposed to see) aren't related. It has to do with bitrate, not with the quality of the BD you're playing.

Re: Could Lack of "1080p/24" Be The Problem?

Thank you very much for your insights, Jari; let me see if I can address these issues individually that you have documented below, and then I'll get to the other member who posted after you...

IMO, not really, 24fps is not "mind blowing". Most Blu-ray/HD DVD-titles (at least film-based!) are 24fps on the disc, so if you have BOTH the player and TV/projector that supports also 24fps, you´ll get less of that minor "judder" that you can see (or should I say: You MIGHT see) in some of the films/scenes/shots, mainly where the camera is panning or tilting, I guess.

Thank you; suppose this answered the main question of my thread...I will not worry about 1080p/24 right now then...

Read this link for more info:
High-Def FAQ: What's the Big Deal About 1080p24? | High-Def Digest
One important quote: "1080p24 output is only beneficial to content originally photographed at 24 frames per second".

I will read that just as soon as I get a second...thank you...

Oh boy. Most films are shot in "film", and e.g. "grain" is natural part of the film stock. Some have more and some have less, but grain won´t go anywhere with e.g. Blu-ray-titles (it´ll GO away with digital animation-titles like "Cars" and "Ratatouille" - they are not "shot in film"). I´m afraid your expectations are just too high - and also unrealistic in some ways.

Well, let me start with saying that I am totally aware of the fact that film will have grain inherent in it -- I understand that...some titles I own or have rented, though, seem to have an almost "DVD quality-like" noise or grain to them, and it seems a bit dissapointing as sometimes it seems like it's "robbing" the Blu ray of its impact...now, let me explain further below:

It´s also hard to say for sure, that is your TV 100% correctly calibrated, etc etc. There are zillion things that could matter.

...and THAT'S what I'm trying to ascertain...where the issue is coming from...indeed, I have been told that 100 percent calibration will eliminate any "worries" about the quality of these discs, but to be truthful, I simply can't afford an ISF tech right now and I'm not about to play Russian Roulette in the TV's service menu...so, I calibrated off a disc with instructions and it seems to be the best I can get this screen right now -- BUT...I AM using Sony's "Standard" picture mode, not Custom, which opens up other selections for Detail Enhancer, Black Corrector, Live Color, etc...yet when I have calibrated in Custom mode, the results of these films played back on my screen didn't look all that different from Standard mode, except it made the screen a bit dimmer -- but could this really be affecting the "noise" I'm seeing onscreen?

It´s not "lack of 24fps". Film has grain and some other issues. e.g. "300" will be very grainy (originally), no matter how well the set is calibrated, no matter how good your TV is etc.

So again, about those expectations...

No, I TOTALLY understand that -- some films are absolutely intended to be grainy, and I expect and respect that...it's just that the discs on my Panasonic player coming off my Sony HDTV don't look...all that...well..."high def"...

I would keep them definitely "off". You don´t need any "phony" picture processing with Blu-ray/HD DVD-films. 1080p will keep the quality high (of course, not always - there are some mediocre releases/transfers).

Okay; this is interesting input...someone on another site also told me to keep the Blu ray Noise Reduction OFF, but to keep the standard DVD NR ON -- and with standard DVD, you can DEFINITELY see a difference in how the circuit eliminates some of the noise...but I thought it was working, too, on Blu rays...would you DEFINITELY recommend leaving noise reduction OFF when watching high def discs? And my player is set to AUTO HDMI resolution, which "selects" 1080p playback based on my screen's resolution...

They *might* help with SD DVD (IMO, I would keep them "off" with SD DVD also) and some TV-signals (with those I could keep them "on" for some cases).

Well, I'm talking about the noise reduction on my BLU RAY PLAYER, not the TV (which has its own noise reduction, too) and when you watch standard DVD or Blu ray, the menu pops up on the onscreen menu of the player to select noise reduction on or off for the individual formats...and I said, this seems to work on standard DVDs...I can't really see a difference in Blu ray, but if you think it's best to keep this OFF for high definition, I will.

Now that we're on the topic, would you recommend leaving my Sony TV's NOISE REDUCTION off, low, medium or high? I have it OFF right now for the Blu ray HDMI port, but should it make a difference?


Thank you, Brian; this has cleared a lot up for me.

Re: Could Lack of "1080p/24" Be The Problem?

Hello again, guys...

Just wanted to share this rather in depth review of the Panasonic Blu ray player I'm discussing here by Richard Fisher on HDTV Magazine's site...note where he mentions the noise and artifacting on Blu ray discs he tested on this machine -- some of the same things I have been describing (I have highlighted the sections that are important in BOLD):

Summary: Good 1080p Blu-ray performance but not quite as good at upconverting SD DVD. Solid Blu-ray and SD DVD performance for legacy displays!


The format battle for HD disc is heating up this year as both HD DVD and Blu-ray push for entry level products under $500 with the goal being less than $200 by the end of the year. Panasonic just released the DMP-BD10A with an MSRP of $599 and one of our readers, Jack Wilson of BAJ Access Security, offered up one for a quick review.

The purchase of this product adds a Blu-ray 5 disc starter pack of the following titles: Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest, Transporter, Fantastic Four and Crash. Limited quantities of players were shipped with the starter pack and promotional blurbs on the outside of box. If not included, this promotion runs until 09/30/07 to be claimed via US mail. Please check the Panasonic site for details.


Common Features

Super-high-speed P4HD processing with 296KHz/14-bit Video D/A Converter for analog video
User adjustable video controls: Sharpness, Contrast, Brightness, Color Saturation, Gamma, 3D-NR, and Integrated DNR
HDMI supporting 1080p60
Analog Component Video Output supporting 1080i for Blu-ray and 480p for SD DVD
Composite and s-video output
7.1 multichannel analog audio output with calibration settings
High-resolution digital audio HDMI 1.3 output supporting all sound track codecs via bitstream only

Not-So-Common Features

HDMI RGB output range, normal and enhanced for DVI inputs - not tested
Coax or optical digital out for SD DVD soundtracks
50GB disc Storage
EZ Sync HDAVI Control - operate all of your Panasonic only home theater components by pressing a single button on your TV's remote control - not tested

Opening the Box

The Panasonic is well packed coming in a larger cabinet typical of this price point similar to the recently reviewed LG dual format player. The front panel sports a door across the entire face and must be opened and closed for access to put your disc in the tray. While the door creates nice clean lines for the front panel I found it more of an inconvenience than enhancement. The black remote was quite nice and ergonomic in the hand. Main buttons you would access are readily available and when you open the top half underneath is a numerical keypad along with rarely accessed features related to setup and video settings.


Out of Box Performance

Hooking up the player to a BenQ W10000 I found it preset for 16:9 1080p and ran the DVE test material. Looking over at the receiver it showed the incoming codec so I entered the setup menu to make adjustments finding to my surprise individual settings for each codec the player supports. I set the SD codecs for bitstream and the HD codecs for PCM. After a quick look at a few Blu-ray titles I noticed a subtle artifact that appeared as a grainy, dithering or contouring of elements in particular scenes. Let's now move on to objective testing.


On the Test Bench

At this time there is no commercially available Blu-ray calibration or test disc, so that portion of testing is subjective only. What follows is objective testing for SD DVD content via HDMI at 720p, 1080i and 1080p along with component analog video at 480p only.

The very ability to inspect and view an HDMI video source goes directly against the copyright capability of the connection and copy protection since the means to see it would infer a means to steal it. At this time the recently reviewed Panasonic PTAE-1000U has been kept in the stable just for this purpose using the Wave Form Monitor feature. While the Wave Form Monitor does suffer when looking at high frequency response video such as bursts it is also the perfect tool for check IRE levels and color decoding. This does come with the limitation of only being able to check YPbPr output making me unable to verify the switching to RGB output that would be required for a DVI input. Some of the results are based on visual calibration checks as well as signal and is noted. All tests were performed using Digital Video Essentials as the source material.


Video Levels

Whether by visual calibration or waveform monitoring, the Panasonic outputs 0IRE and 100IRE at the correct 16/235 levels for HDMI. Analog component video also passed at 480p.


Color Decoding

Whether by visual calibration or waveform monitoring, the Panasonic outputs correct color decoding at 720p and 1080i/p. Analog component video also passed at 480p.


Via HDMI the Panasonic had a higher level of scaling artifacts then normally observed for color bar patterns where two colors would meet. While having artifacts in this area of response is common the Panasonic, with an 18 pixel error in the horizontal, was clearly worse than a Sony PS3 with a 12 pixel error and the Oppo DV981HD while not flawless was clearly better than the Sony for the same 12 pixels by generating the best scaling gradation between colors. Vertically the main area of error was about 4 pixels but there were visible artifacts in the same 18 pixel range. From the viewing position the Panasonic showed obvious scaling artifacts for this test with the Sony doing better and the Oppo providing the perceptive "Gotcha" because its scaling made the horizontal transition appear about the same size as the vertical at the viewing position of 3 screen heights.

Analog component vide connections passed at 480p.


Horizontal Frequency Response Luminance

As noted, waveform monitoring response was useless for this test. Visually the Panasonic passed the continuous frequency burst test quite well for luminance. For the low frequency pattern there is some banding for the highest frequency burst. Moving on to the high frequency pattern, recall that I have yet to see any player or scaler/player combo pass this pattern correctly and the Panasonic is no exception. This pattern always has banding so the best I can state on this is high, medium or a low contrast response with high being the best and low being the worst. For the Panasonic a medium contrast response was the norm; a typical response compared to others.

Analog component video had a similar response at 480p.


Vertical Frequency Response Luminance

Vertical frequency response was excellent in 1080p. With 720p the player could not figure out which dark and white stripes it should favor with white being predominant in the top burst and black predominant in the bottom burst.

Analog component video had a great response at 480p.


Frequency Response Color

It was in this area that the Panasonic was quite poor via HDMI and HD scan rates. As you reached the higher frequencies the alternating bands would be muted in output or in some places disappear. The contrast levels remained fairly equal from low to high for those bands that would appear but ultimately this was one of the poorest responses I have ever seen for this pattern. Oddly enough changing the output to 480p revealed an excellent response.

Analog component video responded quite well at 480p.


CUE, Chroma Upsampling Error

This causes a vertical breakup of color detail in the vertical plane typically expressed in reds but can show up for other colors and is related to the player using only one MPEG decoding method rather than both interlace and progressive and applying the correct version to the native source on the disc. The Panasonic passed this test via both HDMI and analog component video.


Aspect Ratio Control

The Panasonic provides an auto 16:9/4:3 switching mode so the player maintains correct aspect with special features or 4:3 movies by adding black side bars. The 4:3 mode also clips the 4:3 content with about 3-5% overscan.

For the DVD collector looking for great performance with all DVD mastering, time did not allow for testing of the Panasonic with 4:3 letter boxed sources.


SD DVD Scaling Analog Component Video

The Panasonic was tested at 480p HDMI feeding a 1080p DLP front projector with pixel mapped centered output, along with an adjusted viewing distance to compensate, using the DVE chapter 17 A/V Demonstration material.

The Panasonic passed with flying colors providing the same common level of performance I would expect from most any 480p analog component video output.


SD DVD Scaling HDMI

The Panasonic was tested at 1080p HDMI feeding a 1080p DLP front projector using the DVE chapter 17 A/V Demonstration material.

Noted during testing was a very poor response for color resolution as well as scaling errors between colors with color bar patterns. In the DVE demonstration material there is red detail content for a US flag, a Virgin Records billboard at Times Square, a PC graphics animation of blooming flowers and Ferris Wheel. All revealed visible artifacts appearing as anti-aliasing and or interpolation errors. During the CUE test this artifact also showed up slightly in the same areas checked for the CUE artifact. The Luminance portion, black and white video content, did quite well but did suffer from a higher level of noise, dithering and contouring than normally experienced being high enough in level to draw my attention. Another artifact was slight vertical edge enhancement that showed up occasionally through out the material. The typical line interpolation errors and aliasing showed up although far less at 1080p. Having more than double the pixels going from 720X480 to 1920X1080 greatly contributes to better scaling providing harder and more distinct edges since the change from peak black to peak white takes place over a smaller area by comparison due to the higher oversampling. This was not a surprise and expected technically, yet it was nice to see visual verification of this theory. An increase to a 2kX4k imaging chip would double the pixel count yet again easily providing SD DVD edges nearly as distinct as HD! Putting this in perspective though you would need a viewing distance less than 3 screen heights to perceive this benefit and that is typically reserved for front projection and large screens.

Due to the results garnered from objective testing I could not help but switch to 480p output and test again. Like the analog component video the Panasonic passed with flying colors.


Scaling Blu-ray via HDMI and Analog Video

Watching some Blu-ray movies via HDMI there was little to fault. Moving on to my test title, X-Men; The Last Stand, I did find one nit picky complaint. As noted in the SD DVD subjective testing there was a higher level of noise, dithering and contouring than normally experienced and this artifact made a subtle appearance with Blu-ray as well.

Via analog video at 1080i there was a hitch because the projector used applies the typical vertical filtering to 1080i content, which softens detail. That said, Blu-ray performed quite well in this application.


Audio Performance

Time did not allow for an audio review and in my quick review I was not concentrating on sound nearly as much as video. After the product had been returned I looked over the owner's manual for audio finding a mixed bag of responses if not using HDMI 1.3 and bitstream.

The unit does provide the necessary analog connections and management to support up to 7.1 channels. For digital multi channel PCM this management may need to be turned off or have settings at neutral positions if feeding a receiver since those operations already take place in the receiver. The A/D conversion is limited to 24/96 and any source above that will be down converted.

Per the manual, it does not fully support DTS HD, Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus via HDMI PCM and is output as 2 channel stereo. These are only supported as bitstream to be decoded by the receiver. Going further in the manual it is unclear if the product fully supports these codecs in any other form other than HDMI bitstream.

PAGE 22, owner's manual, audio settings

Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD
Bitstream: The bitstream signal of Dolby Digital is output.
PCM: Dolby Digital Plus or Dolby TrueHD PCM sound is output in 2 channels.

DTS HD
Bitstream: The bitstream signal of DTS Digital Surround is output.
PCM: DTS-HD PCM sound is output in 2 channels.

PAGE 26, owner's manual, troubleshooting guide - sound, No sound, Low volume, Distorted sound, Cannot hear the desired audio type.

When playing discs recorded with Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD, audio will not be output properly unless the number of connected speakers is the same as the disc's channel specification. This infers that some connection type, analog at minimum, at least supports multichannel.

If the audio track of the disc was recorded with Dolby Digital Plus or Dolby True HD, Dolby Digital audio will be output from the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT terminal. This is referring to the SD audio digital audio coax and optical connection.

If the audio track of the disc was recorded with DTS-HD Master Audio, it will be output as DTS Digital Surround audio. This implies the DTS indicator on your receiver and possibly an actual down conversion to DTS yet the specs indicate full support and that infers via HDMI 1.3 only and the receiver will indicate DTS.

One feature I really liked about this unit was the ability to individually specify the output for each codec and in my case I set the SD codecs for bitstream and the HD codecs for PCM since my receiver does not support the new HD disc codecs. Without reading a thing about the Blu-ray disc I knew what kind of audio I was dealing with simply by looking at my receiver display to see what was going on. Considering what I know now about the audio section this feature is irrelevant since the HD codecs are down converted to stereo for PCM multichannel HDMI.

For this review audio was either bitstream or PCM via HDMI. The following deserves mention for those upgrading a legacy home theater system and starting on the audio side. If you intend to use the HDMI connection for audio it will nonetheless be looking for an HDMI compatible display and if it does not find one it will limit the analog component outputs to 480p for Blu-ray. Only those with a display that does not support HDMI or DVI need to take note of this.

Ultimately, maximum audio benefits come only by using an HDMI 1.3 receiver and setting all codecs to bitstream for the receiver to decode.


Problems

None


Service

According to the Panasonic site there are no local service centers. This may be an error but more than likely it simply means you have to send it in to a repair depot like nearly all disc players these days.


Conclusion

When it came to Blu-ray playback the player appears to meet specs and there is little to find fault with whether HDMI or analog video. In the realm of the nitpicky videophile though the higher level of noise, dithering and contouring artifacts clearly noted with SD DVD made a very subtle appearance with Blu-ray as well. SD DVD is another matter and any videophile will not be pleased with the SD DVD performance and indeed it was in this area of upconversion to 1080p that the player clearly had warts that could be seen by any viewer if pointed out. This was a surprising result for a Panasonic player. Their past record is one of meeting video standards at times, incorrect color decoding at times but never an artifact ridden image from scaling. Maybe this can be addressed in a firmware upgrade but in its current form I cannot recommend this player for HDMI/DVI videophile applications yet casual viewers, especially with long viewing distances, will likely not notice.

For analog component video applications the player does receive high marks for both Blu-ray at 1080i and SD DVD at 480p!

Audio is at its best using an HDMI 1.3 equipped receiver. It appears the analog connections will support DTS HD and Dolby True HD down converted to 24/96. Those with HDMI 1.2 support or less on their receivers are going to be missing out on those HD audio codecs via digital multi channel PCM.


Putting It in Perspective

The DMP-BD10A was a pleasant surprise as well as a disappointment.

If you have a legacy HDTV multi-scan CRT rear projection display for 480p and 1080i such as nearly all the Sony, Panasonic and Mitsubishi products of the time then the Panasonic provides a great entry into Blu-ray along with good 480p scaling whether you are a casual viewer or videophile. There is nothing to find fault with here and you will definitely be increasing both audio and video performance by a number of notches over SD DVD with Blu-ray movies! While the sound may not be the ultimate audiophile expression you will be floored none the less.

Current HDMI/DVI display applications are another matter.

The SD DVD scaling was disappointing. For SD DVD content the source is mastered with progressive flags that will tell any decent scaler how to perform conversion to 480p with little to no artifacts and in this mode the player shined but for HDMI/DVI applications we want good upconversion to bypass the internal scaler of your display and historically DVD players do a decent job at this for the most part. It appears from testing the problem is directly related to the upconversion/scaling process and that same process may be showing some influence with Blu-ray as well since the source is 1080p 24 frames and must have 2/3 pull down applied for conversion to 60 frames. This may relate to the very subtle noise, dithering and contouring artifacts observed with Blu-ray.

Drawing a comparison with other product the Sony PS3 which retailed for $600 just dropped to $500 and while it curiously has the same type of SD DVD source artifacts described for the DMP-BD10A Sony did a far better job of hiding them making their performance flaw far more of a concern for videophiles with close viewing distances and a passion for performance while being easily acceptable for many others; it at least has decent scaling. As for Blu-ray the Sony provides competitive if not ever so slightly better 1080p60 performance plus 1080p24 support which the Panasonic does not. On the other hand the PS3 has no multichannel analog audio support like the Panasonic does. The PS3 is clearly the better overall HDMI performer as well as a huge bargain when considering the additional gaming and media center benefits. On top of that Sony is releasing their own MSRP $600 player only at about this time and should be on your list of entry level Blu-ray players to check out.

If the particular HD format is of no concern then Toshiba, the HD DVD camp, has just dropped prices on two of their players reaching the $400 price point, HD-A20, for 1080p with a 1080p24 firmware upgrade coming early September along with an entry level 1080i player for $300, HD-A2. Both are untested by me at this time.

The common everyday casual viewing application where the Panasonic would shine and receive a recommendation is a catch 22. A casual viewing application does not revolve around sheer performance concerns and nearly all are perfectly satisfied with SD DVD at their long viewing distances with many perceiving an HD level of performance as is. While we may be in the midst of a format war both formats combined represent little more than a blip on the horizon compared to SD DVD so no short term threat there for consumer habits. You can't readily rent Blu-ray or HD DVD except over the internet. The hardware price is not right for this market and they are not about to bite until the players reach less than $200. So while this level of performance is a shoe in for the casual viewing application the need does not really exist and the price is too high to be considered.


Conclusion

The Panasonic is a great leap board into Blu-ray for multiscan 480p/1080i CRT legacy displays. While there are other displays with more resolving power those old CRT products beat them hands down in other areas and the Panasonic is a great player to add new HD life to your experience as well as getting some more useful years out of the display. The included five free Blu-ray titles and digital or analog multi channel audio will definitely get your HD disc party of oohs and ahs started!

For those with new displays supporting HDMI or those with in between DVI legacy displays the player provides solid performance with Blu-ray for your HD disc party as well! The review points out what the performance concerns might be for you and your SD DVD application.

Whew...now...the midsection of that review has gotten me even MORE lost than I already am about the AUDIO operation of this player when using HDMI, multichannel PCM tracks and a player that doesn't support bitstreamed output of the new codecs...

With Regard to Jari's Suggestion of Keeping Noise Reduction OFF on the Player...

Is this suggested? On the Panasonic '10A player, there is a section when the onscreen menu pops up by pressing DISPLAY on the remote which allows you to select "DNR" (noise reduction) for DVD and Blu ray playback -- I keep it ON for DVD playback because you can CLEARLY see how it eliminates some of the background artifacts -- it's clear. But on Blu ray playback, I have been advised to keep this DNR circuit OFF because it MAY introduce unwanted noise into the high definition presentation...but I really don't see any difference between going from ON and OFF with the DNR when playing Blu rays...nothing seems to be different.

Any thoughts from other Panasonic Blu ray player owners?

Re: Could Lack of "1080p/24" Be The Problem?

I have a 50-inch Sony SXRD and have found that CNET's recommended settings for the 60-inch model to be an excellent starting point. I bumped the color setting up a few notches. This is no substitute for an ISF calibration, and you may want to tweak a bit, but otherwise this should help get you started:

Picture menu:

Mode: Custom
Advanced iris: Min
Picture: 84
Brightness: 56
Color: 41
Hue: 0
Color temp: Warm2
Sharpness: 50
Noise reduction: Off

--Advanced Settings--

Black corrector: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear white: Off
Live color: Off
White balance: (see below)
Detail enhancer: Off
Edge enhancer: Off

--White balance--

R-gain: -2
G-gain: -1
B-gain: 0
R-bias: -3
G-bias: -2
B-bias: -1

Setup menu:

Color matrix: Standard
Power saving: On

Re: Could Lack of "1080p/24" Be The Problem?

Thank You Very Much, Ken...

I appreciate you taking the time to reply and post these settings; I have, in fact, tried the CNET settings as they are infamous around the 'Net...and I have found that I didn't really like the settings on my A2020...but, I would like to continue asking for advice based on my setup and your thoughts would be appreciated...

I'm using the Standard picture mode because I just didn't care for the "dimmer" appearance of the Custom mode, even at its non calibrated defaults...now, using Standard, I did calibrate with a setup DVD and then confirmed the settings with a THX Optimizer...but let me share some of my settings and then ask for more of your input...

Based on my calibration DVD, these are the settings in STANDARD that I came up with:

Picture: 80
Iris: Auto 1 (liked the punch of this better than 2)
Brightness: 53
Color: 50
Hue: 0
Sharpness: 50 (there seems to be an added sharpness used in STANDARD mode that cannot be defeated, no matter what you set this to)
Color Temperature: Neutral
Noise Reduction: Off

Now, of course, because I'm in Standard mode, the Advanced Settings are not available -- but what would you recommend for NOISE REDUCTION in my case? Does this circuit work for anything other than nosiy broadcast/cable transmissions? Should I be using it for my Blu ray HDMI input?

Also...I have to ask this because it concerned me after I read it over at AVS: There was a discussion over there about overall contrast of these Sony SXRDs, and one member claimed that no matter what calibration disc you use to adjust the settings on these displays, the PICTURE (Contrast) control should always be at MAXIMUM for getting true, full 1080p resolution from these screens -- he went as far to say that anything under Max is really not letting the punch of these screens come through, and that my setting of "80" (based on what the vocal prompt of my calibration disc told me to leave this at) was way too low...but I can't see this as being true or accurate, because most people's calibration levels for these sets are 80, 90 or even LOWER than 80...should Contrast be cranked all the way up without fear of clipping the whites or damaging the set?

The same member over there went on to say that these calibration discs were originally designed for TV technologies that are irrelevant to today's screens, and therefore ignore what they say about contrast -- the contrast should be cranked as high as possible for maximum effect from Blu ray discs and such...I don't think that's correct, but what are your thoughts on that?

Is It Common For (Most?) Blu-ray Players to Upscale DVDs Horribly?

I simply cannot stand my Panasonic '10A Blu-ray player's upconvering performance -- and I like it less and less with each disc I play. Now, before there are the accusations of "You are expecting standard def to look like hgh def and you are on crack!" and all the flame wars that accompany this, let me say right now: I am NOT expecting this kind of "conversion" and I understand the difference between scaling to a display's native resolution and making an entire format "different" by remastering in high definition...

My player's HDMI resolution output (I'm running ONLY one HDMI connection from this player for audio and video; those who have been following my previous threads on other issues with this player will already know this) allows me to select 480p all the way up to 1080p -- I keep this resolution output on the AUTO setting, which selects 1080p based on the connection to my Sony KDS-50A2020 SXRD HDTV...now, while I'm not really thrilled with even the Blu-ray performance of this machine, standard DVDs look even worse, and that's a problem, in that 99.8 percent of my film collection is in standard def...

With AUTO selected at the player, the Panasonic itself scales the DVD to 1080p, I'm assuming, and the image that creates on my screen is usually horrendous -- let me explain what kinds of things I'm seeing. First of all, while it doesn't happen with ALL discs, it happens ALMOST with all discs, and there are horrible jagged lines that run through lettering on the screen during credits of a film, etc. -- I have noted that this occurs even worse with RED lettering on the screen. These jaggies get distracting they're so bad at times; most films also exhibit jagged lines on almost every character face, picture edge, etc. I'm also getting a very annoying "macroblocking" effect, or so I believe, in that dark colors or difficult scenes on certain DVD discs, such as underwater sequences, break up into a strange digital pixelation -- this happens in the background of other discs as well, where darker areas of the image will pixelate, shudder and just look grainy and messy...it really makes the films hard to watch sometimes.

I have engaged Panasonic's DNR noise reduction on standard DVD playback, and this helps some, but I am thinking this is just a horrible player for DVD upconversion...I have tried setting the player to 480p when playing back DVDs, thus, from what I was told, letting my Sony HDTV upscale the image to 1080p instead, and that helps just a LITTLE bit, but I can't stand doing that, as when I want to watch a Blu-ray, I need to go into the HDMI resolution menu and switch to 1080p output again...not fun.

Are these upscaling issues common with Blu-ray players, specifically on my model Panasonic? If so, would it make sense for me to purchase, say, a good Oppo upconverting DVD player -- or another brand, perhaps Denon -- just to play my standard discs? I know Denon just released their flagship $2,000 Blu-ray deck, which contains the Realta chip so upscaling must look better, but that's out of my budget, and the $1000 player they make under that one just got reviewed by Home Theater magazine, and it didn't get good marks for DVD playback at all...I know Marantz is supposed to launch a BD deck, but for the most part, is there a deck on the market that offers very good DVD upconversion along with bitstreaming of the new codecs?

Re: Could Lack of "1080p/24" Be The Problem?

The Custom setting isn't "dimmer." It just allows you to customize and save a different set of picture settings. If you set all the values to match Standard or Vivid, they would look identical. Go ahead and try the settings I gave you for custom, but substitute your own tweaks that you've listed here. By using Custom, you do get to fine tune color balance, etc., which, as you say, aren't available to you under Standard or Vivid.

Important: Keep in mind, with the SXRDs each input on the TV can have its own picture setting. If you're setting the picture using, for example, the antenna input, those settings will not be applied to the HDMI input. So make sure you apply the settings to each input that you're using on your TV.

I dislike noise reduction circuitry under virtually all circumstances, and I sure as hell wouldn't use it with a Blu-ray player.

My thoughts are that the guy doesn't know what he's talking about. I'd like to know what some of the other members responses to his posts were.

I will say that most of the calibration discs' test patterns don't apply to rear-projection sets like the SXRDs, and I think that might include contrast. It would depend upon the disc you're using.

If you subscribe to Netflix, you might want to rent the Blu-ray of "Digital Video Essentials." That should give you better results.