Need Advice!

I am new to the forum and I originally posted to the wrong location, so here we go again. I am in the process of building a house that will eventually have a ht. I've got about 2-3 weeks before the drywall goes up since the electrician will start around Wednesday. I am planning on just running the cables and wires now and complete everything within a year. The bonus room is 18x24 and there is a 5x8 closet that I plan to make my central hub for my structured wiring and rack system. I've got a plan I just don't know if it is a very good one.

1. The FP is going to be around 25-30 feet away from my closet so I was going to run 1-hdmi, 1-toslink, 2-cat 5e, 2 rg6 quad shield, 4-12 ga speaker wire(this was suggested earlier), and an rca cable.

2. To the same location, I plan running a 1-2" conduit for future expansion.

3. For the side speakers, I was planning on 2 each 12 ga wire.

4. For the subwoofer 1-rg6 coax.

5. Last of all, an unrelated question. I was considering buying from monoprice cat 6 patch cords and using that for network and voice throughout the house since they are pre-connected and very reasonably
priced.

This is the plan thus far, any advice would be greatly appreciated since I am below novice. Thanks.

Re: Need Advice!

Are you running toslink/cat5/rca to the projector location? If so, why? If not, where are you running them to?
14 gauge speaker wire would be plenty.

You need to run speaker wiring for 7.1.
You should also run subwoofer cable to at least 2 different locations.
Make the conduit at least 2" (maybe larger).
I'd run component to the FP too

What about lighting? Do you need to run electrical to sconce locations? Can lights?

What about outlets? Will you have an outlet near a FP location (ceiling or high on back wall)?

Re: Need Advice!

Thanks for the tips. I think you are right about the 2" conduit. I am not planning on a projector just a flat panel. What do you mean by component
cable? Does any one have an opinion on running cat 6 patch cord throughout the house? Thanks for the help.

Re: Need Advice!

Do you already have a plan of where you want to put lights and outlets?

If not, you should cancel the Wednesday appointment with the electrician and spend some time drawing up plans, unless your electrician is also a lighting designer.

I would use 12 gauge wire for the speakers. The total length of the run including the portion in the wall (home wiring cable such as Romex works nicely) and the portions outside the walls going to the amp and speakers may well exceed 30 feet.

Running wire throughoug the house may work out for you but somehow I would not bother with that. Too often someone may want to watch something in the theater while you want to watch or listen to something else in a different room and one shared sound system down in the theater can't do that.

Component cables -- A set of three RCA plug 75 ohm cables.

Home theater hints: Constructing a Basement Home Theater

Re: Need Advice!

The maximum distance that I have to run speaker wire, hdmi cable, component cable, etc is 35 ft. The cat 6 question is regarding voice and computer networking. I was just amazed at how cheap that I could get patch cord through monoprice. That was the basis for asking since I am going to wire up the phone and computer myself.

I have already have 140ft of 14ga monsrer speaker wire that I paid way too much for a while back to let go to waste, so I was thinking of doing the short runs with it. Thanks a bunch.

Re: Need Advice!

Ah, typically FP would stand for front projection/projector.


Why not a FP? You have plenty of room. where will your seating be located? What size screen are you considering? In a room that size, you should definitely consider running lines for a projector in case you ever decide to go that route. It's much easier to do now, then later. At some point you might want to watch movies or sports on a 120+ inch screen.

Also, I'm still not sure why you'd want to run toslink, cat5, or rca to the flat panel?

Will you be purchasing (or have) a receiver that does HDMI switching? If not (and if you don't plan on buyine one), you might want to run multiple HDMI's to the TV location

Re: Need Advice!

Even though wireless home networking is probably easier overall, I wouldn't pass up the chance for Cat6 wiring at this stage if I were in your situation. You might also consider a whole house audio solution.

John

Re: Need Advice!

Thanks for the input. I thought that I would run all the cables that were mentioned as well as cat 5e because you never know what the future holds.
An honest newbie mistake, I thought FP meant Flat Panel. As far as a projector goes, I just like Flat Panels. Thats not a slight at projectors thats just my preference. I do plan on a receiver with switching. I am also considering running cat6 throughout the house. I am still looking for an opinion on running cat 6 patch cord for all my network and voice needs. I appreciate all the help thus far.

Re: Need Advice!

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I would suggest definately running either Cat5e or Cat 6 throughout. As a previous poster said, it's much easier to do at this stage. I didn't get that choice since my home was essentially complete when we purchased it.

I wasn't too sure about projectors either until I tried them. Now I wouldn't have it any other way. Much easier to move than any TV monitor. Not trying to change your mind, just my thoughts.

John

Re: Need Advice!

John, I appreciate your reply. I guess the biggest concern that I have regarding projector is the bulb issue. I have been told (and this could very easily be wrong) that the bulb on projectors has a life of 3000 hours and that it cost around $600 on average. Please fill me in this is not the case.
Also, I have never seen one in action. I'm sure that would make a difference.
Thanks.

Re: Need Advice!

I think you're pretty close on the expected bulb life, but replacements should be in the $300.00 - $400.00 range. My particular projectors [Sanyo PLV-Z5] replacement bulbs are around $350.00. Again, not trying to influence your decision as flat panels have their advantages, but I would recommend checking out a good projector setup before writing any checks. That way your decision will be all the more informed. In my area there are several high-end, privately owned Home Theater shops. These are the ideal places to see a good projector setup. Places like Best Buy and Circuit City are hit & miss.

Either way you go, I think you'll be pleased. The real bang for the buck is more in the speakers anyway. The best overall advice I can give you is not to skimp on the sub.

John

Re: Need Advice!

Alex,

Make sure the wiring you are buying is CL or CM rated, meaning it can go in-wall, thus fire protected or the electrical inspector will not approve it. The video cables don't much matter as they are low voltage. In the HT I am currently buiding I am only installing a 1" conduit to the projector to allow me to swap out any future revisions to the HDMI cables; in other words I am not running a bunch of cables to the projector. Anything that wants to connect to it will be through the receiver switch (HDMI).

I also bought from Monoprice and had custom-length subwoofer cabling made up at Bluejeanscable.com. I bought 5 cables and ran them to seperate locations as you never know where you sub will sound the best (don't forget to have electrical outlets with them.

Also here are some tips that I did for my ht electrical:

- Speakers are on their own 20amp circuit due to large draw (7 speakers at 150W RMS each)
- Subwoofers on their own regular circuit along with all other outlets
- Video on a dedicated, regular circuit as other items create a "noise floor" in the electrical
- Lights create a very high noise floor, so they will run of a circuit from a neighboring room (i.e. hallway) so you don't have to run a 4th circuit.
- Two 12 guage wires to each speaker so you can bi-wire, or bi-amp at a later time if you like to. Some people swear by bi-wiring if you speakers are set up for it.
- Remember to have good separation between your audio wires running through the walls and the electrical wires. If the electrical is running through the studs at 18", run your audio around 36" or higher

Other recommendations:
- Close in your bonus room for better acoustics. How you ask and not make the house feel too closed in?......Outdoor, double french doors. Outdoor doors will keep the bass pressure in, keep sound from getting out, and the large windows will create an open feel.
- Double your wall framing up, stagger the studs and insulate. While my HT is being built in the basement I have my gear hooked up in my Bonus Room. I have only listened to in once because every neighbor comes over to complain. The subs pentrate the walls easily and shake their house. The bonus room is a prime location for disturbing your neighbors so sound-proof it.
- double up drywall: regular 1/2" drywall acts like a drum and allows the bass pressure to flex it, destroying your sound. I am using a 1/2" layer with a second 5/8" layer of drywall so it is strong enough.
- You may want to also insulate the floor joists underneigh you so sound doesn't escape their too and bug you neighbors.

Anyway, that is all I have.

Re: Need Advice!

Vin,

Thanks for the advice. The electricians are starting tomorrow and I am beginning to think that I may need to alter my plan. Originally, I had planned on running everything in my closet on 1 20 amp circuit. Now, I don' t think that would be enough. I am going to wire for 7.1 system, but I am really not
planning on trying to blow the windows out. Neighbors are not a problem either.

I would like to try and run just a 1" conduit since it would be easier to deal with but I am afraid that I may be sorry later. Anyways thats all for now.

Thanks.

Re: Need Advice!

One thing to remember for calculating wattage is the amperage of the wiring times the voltage: P=VI. So if you have a 20 amp circuit/wiring then it would be 20amps*120volts = 2,400 watts. So you can get good draw from a 20amp wire, but the other concern is too many devices on one circuit not allowing a low noise floor.

Re: Need Advice!

Vin,

I need a little education here, please. What is a low noise floor and is this a good thing or bad thing?

Re: Need Advice!

Noise floor refers to the electrical "noise" in a circuit. Room lights create a lot of electrical noise so you would never have them on the same circuit as your video projector for example...they have a high noise floor

Re: Need Advice!

I'm assuming that noise in a line is fluctuations in current from that device? Wouldn't that make audio equipment one of the highest in line noise?

Re: Need Advice!

Bobby,

Sorry about the late response, I forgot about this thread.
You are absolutely right, audio equipment also creates a high noise floor. Your audio equipment must be on a different circuit then your video due to power drain and fluctuations. I made the comment about the lights because many people separate their video and audio circuits but put video on same circuit as lights. Lights have a high noise floor, but in a different way. Instead of huge, intermittent power draws, they have a much higher frequency fluctuation, but still not good to have on the same circuit.

Re: Need Advice!

Your guys are getting way off topic. In my opinion noise floor is the last thing Alex needs to be educated on.

Alex you were close to right from the start.

Electricians should, install another 15 or 20 amp dedicated circuit from your equipment room to your breaker panel.

Install a RECESSED outlet behind the tv, connected to one of your dedicated lines in the equipment room.

Run 2" or larger conduit, I would recommend larger.

PLAN ON RUNNING WIRES FOR 7.1, YOU WILL BE GLAD YOU DID.

From the equipment room you need to your tv.

HDMI, 1 maybe 2, is your receiver able to switch hdmi sources? ( if you only got 2 hdmi inputs on your receiver you may need another hdmi cable to your tv. Cable/sat-1 hdmi, Blu-ray/DVD-another hdmi, Gaming system 3rd hdmi, 2 maybe fine for now, not in the future.)
RG-6 - at least 5 do a few more just in case.
Toslink - DON'T RUN THIS TO THE TV.
CAT 5- 2 RUNS SHOULD BE ENOUGH.(good for IR kits, can even send analogue audio or component video.)
Speaker wire- 3 pairs, for front left, center, front right. Double this if you want to bi-amp. Bi-wiring is pointless, just increases the guage of the wire.

Think that covers it,

cam
ChameleonAudio.ca

Re: Need Advice!

Campbell,

Good post. I like your recommendations.

The reason that we were getting off topic is that I previously posted to dedicate multiple circuits as you just did, then I justified it as it helps reduce noise-floor. Alex just wanted to know what noise-floor is so we explained it.

I do not agree with you statement that "bi-wiring is pointless" as it comes down to the opinion of the user. If your speakers have the split cross-over inputs go for it