Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

I am completing construction of my new home theater and I need to buy most of my A/V hardware. I currently have a Denon 1804, but I clearly need to upgrade to take advantage of Blu-Ray audio/video.

I am looking for a receiver that handles Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD and is at least 130watts per channel (RMS). Any suggestions?

P.S. I listened to the Denon 3808 at the audio store and it sounded poor for music. I am hoping that the salesman just did not have it set up properly. The speakers (same that I own) sounded terrible as there was no bass. He could not figure out how to eq. it manually.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

I have an Onkyo 805 coming in the mail. I'll tell you exactly how it sounds Thursday.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

I recently got Yamaha v1800. Comes recommended.

RX-V1800

It has 4 HDMI in + 1 out.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Those sound like some good suggestions. Receivers that I have been considering beyond the Denon 3808 include:

Pioneer Elite VSX-94TH (140W/channel)
Sony STR-DA5300ES (120W/channel)
Yamaha RX-V3800 (140W/channel)
Onkyo TX-SR875/905 (140W/channel)

The Pioneer, Yamaha and Onkyo are my front runners.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Vin,
Except for the Sony, that's pretty much my list (though the 1800 is the Yamaha I am looking at), if you include the 3808 (the strongest candidate for me, right now).

As per my usual pathway when I upgrade (rarely), I am paralyzed by options. I'm even considering an Integra pre-amp/processor using my old DSP-A1 as an amp until later next year. The A1 has the capability to take speaker input from an outboard processor. I'm not sure if that is a good idea, though.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

I spoke with a few saleman at a high-end audio dealer and they recommended against the pre/pro. They said you have to stick with all the same brand or you will get differing quality speaker to speaker, so that ends up being way more expensive. I guess if you bought a few high-quality amplifiers that were all the same, then you could just keep switching out your processor. That sounds expensive though.

So you like the Denon 3808? Did you listen to music on it like I did? I am very reluctant to buy it due to how weak it sounded. I am sure it is good for HT though.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

One more thing. The Onkyo SR905 looks attractive. It really advertises it's high-current capabilities with its "Massive Toraoidal transformer" (independent power supply with 70amp peak current). Sounds like it will actually be able to deliver the 140W RMS/channel as promised unlike the other receivers.

What do ya'll think?

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Vin,
The Onkyo's always look attractive My first receiver was their 1997 flagship, and it had everything. I upgraded to the DSP-A1 a year later, not because I was unhappy, but because I wanted dts (which few receivers had in 1998). My only concerns about the Onkyo are heat and quality. I will be using my receiver for movies almost exclusively, as I don't listen to music much at home. I do appreciate the pre-pro advice, and honestly, that's overkill for my townhome.

I haven't heard the Denon or the Yamaha yet. My local Myer-Emco didn't have the Denon 3808 on the floor. The Yamaha is attractive because it's the cheapest (and I like Yamaha's), but the Denon seems the most well-reviewed and thought of.

It's a tough decision.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Thanks Chuck. I think you are right about the Onkyo. I think I will narrow it down to the Yamaha and the Pioneer. I do like Denon as I currently own one, but I think I will wait a couple of years to buy another as their 3808 does not seem up to par as their previous versions. The 3808 comes with all the bells and whistles, but wait until you hear music on it. Although you don't listen to music it will give you a good idea what it is doing with the frequency range. I have read similar reports on other forums about sound quality. Myself and my brother-in-law have been exclusively Denon for as long as we can remember, but we were visibly upset when we demoed the 3808.

Go to the store, only hook up towers (no subwoofer to mask the sound) and play your favorite cd, then tell me what you think.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Well I've owned the 3808 and we love it. It's great on HT and for music it does great also. I will tell you we mostly listen to Jazz and sometimes classic rock. We just upgraded our speakers to Monitor Audio GS10's . I'm not sure how they have the 3808 hooked up at the stores but I can tell you it does great for us on music.tried to post a pic of our set up but I guess you have to have posted more than 10 times

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

HT_ROB,

Can you tell me how you managed to get mid-bass out of it? When we listened to the towers in the store there was no bass at all. I tried to fiddle around with it by disabling the subwoofer, setting the fronts to large and so on. There didn't seem to be an equalizer setting to adjust the sound as it is automatic with a mic.

How did you dial in the sound?

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

I am willing to bet that the store you went to most likely had something messed up. I have heard the Denon 3808ci and it sounds great. You could also try check out the Onkyo 805, 875 and 905 receiver. I have heard that the Yamaha's and Pioneer's do not actually put out what they are advertising. To my knowledge the Onkyo 805 puts out 60 amps and the 905 puts out 70 amps, I do not know what the Denon 3808ci puts out.

I know for what I am looking for the Pioneer Elite and Yamaha's do not fit what I am looking for. One thing I beleive in is if you want to know if something is built well, pick it up. While that is not the only way to tell if something has good build quality. I currently own a Yamaha RX-V995 and I want to have it upgraded by November.

Denon AVR-3808ci 7.1 Receiver MSRP$1,599
Power Output; Watts Per Channel 130 X 7
Weight: In Pounds 39.2 lbs
THX Ultra2
Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital+
dts-HD Master Audio
Component Video Inputs x Bandwidth - *Assignable - *3 x 100MHz
HDMI 1.3 (4 Inputs/1 Out)
Audyssey MultEQ

Denon AVR-4308ci 7.1 Receiver MSRP$2,499
Power Output; Watts Per Channel 140 X 7
Weight: In Pounds 41.6 lbs
THX Ultra2
Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital+
dts-HD Master Audio
Component Video Inputs x Bandwidth - *Assignable - *3 x 100MHz
HDMI 1.3 4 Inputs/2 Out
Audyssey MultEQ
(This model has more flexability and more features than the 3808ci)

Onkyo TX-SR805 7.1 Receiver MSRP$1,099
Power Output; Watts Per Channel 130 X 7
High Instantaneous Current Capability 60A
Weight: In Pounds 50.9 lbs
THX Ultra2
Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital+
dts-HD Master Audio
Component Video Inputs x Bandwidth - *Assignable - *3 x 100MHz
HDMI 1.3 (3 Inputs/1 Out)
Audyssey MultEQ
(The Onkyo's put out what they advertise power wise but it does run hot)

Onkyo TX-NR905 7.1 Receiver MSRP$2,099
Power Output; Watts Per Channel 140 X 7
High Instantaneous Current Capability 70A
Toroidal Transformer
Independent Power Supply for audio and video sections
Weight: In Pounds 54 lbs
THX Ultra2
Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital+
dts-HD Master Audio
Component Video Inputs x Bandwidth - *Assignable - *3 x 100MHz
HDMI 1.3 (4 Inputs/2 Out)
Audyssey MultEQ
(The Onkyo's put out what they advertise power wise but it does run hot)

Yamaha RX-V1800 7.1 Receiver MSRP$1,299.95
Power Output; Watts Per Channel 130 X 7
Weight: In Pounds 37.3 lbs
Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital+
dts-HD Master Audio
Component Video Inputs x Bandwidth - *Assignable - *3 x 100MHz
HDMI 1.3 (4 Inputs/1 Out)
YPAO Automatic System Calibration

Yamaha RX-V3800 7.1 Receiver MSRP$1,699.95
Power Output; Watts Per Channel 140 X 7
Weight: In Pounds 38.4 lbs
Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital+
dts-HD Master Audio
Component Video Inputs x Bandwidth - *Assignable - *3 x 100MHz
HDMI 1.3 (4 Inputs/1 Out)
YPAO Automatic System Calibration

I personally did not care for the lower end Yamaha's and they hardly weigh a thing.

Pioneer VSX-91TXH 7.1 Receiver MSRP$1,200
Power Output; Watts Per Channel 110 X 7
Weight: In Pounds 33lbs. 12oz
Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital+
dts-HD Master Audio
Component Video Inputs x Bandwidth - *Assignable - *3 x 100MHz
HDMI 1.3 (2 Inputs/1 Out)
Advanced MCACC 9-band EQ

Pioneer VSX-92TXH 7.1 Receiver MSRP$1,500
Power Output; Watts Per Channel 130 X 7
Weight: In Pounds 37.5 lbs
Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital+
dts-HD Master Audio
Component Video Inputs x Bandwidth - *Assignable - *3 x 100MHz
HDMI 1.3 (3 Inputs/1 Out)
Advanced MCACC 9-band EQ

Pioneer VSX-94TXH 7.1 Receiver MSRP$1,800
Power Output; Watts Per Channel 140 X 7
Weight: In Pounds 41.14 lbs
Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital+
dts-HD Master Audio
Component Video Inputs x Bandwidth - *Assignable - *3 x 100MHz
HDMI 1.3 (4 Inputs/1 Out)
Advanced MCACC 9-band EQ

I beleive that the Pioneer uses class d amplifiers and you may or may not like how they sound?)

I would take a few of your favorite CD's and movies to help you compair each receiver. IMHO this is the best way to audition a receiver. Also when doing the demo of the receiver try to match speakers in the store as close to the ones you own. Another thing to consider is that I beleive that the Audyssey set up has been receiving better reviews vs what Pioneer, Yamaha or Sony uses.

Personally at this point in time I am currently looking at the following receivers:

Denon AVR-3808ci
Onkyo TX-SR805
Onkyo TX-NR905

I would research every brand you are considering, this may take up alot of time but you will be glad you did in the end. Hope this helps in some way?


This is my current system and the Yamaha RX-V995 in the picture is going to get hooked up to my PC.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

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Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Wow, Dave. Thanks for all the advice. Did you try listening to the 3808 without any subwoofer hooked up (i.e. just listening to the fronts)? This is where I was concerned.

Anyway you system looks pretty sweet. That is the first time I saw a system where a big-screen TV is too small!

So based on your advice I will narrow my search down to the Denon 3808, 4308 and Onkyo 905.....but wait a few months for the price to drop and buy it on Ebay

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Thanks for the compliment Vin. Those speakers do make the big screen look kinda small, but would you beleive that it is a 50" HDTV.


Yes I have heard it with and without a sub and it sounds very good. I listened to some CD's that I brought in without a sub and I was impressed. I auditioned the 3808ci at Ultimate Electronics about 2 months ago. I am currently trying to save up some cash for a new receiver. If I would have had the cash Fry's had a Onkyo TX-SR805 for $699 which is $300 off there normal price. My suggestion would be to stay away from a Sony reciever as they tend to have a weak amp section and the surround modes IMHO are so so. It is kinda scary when you look inside a receiver and it is really lite and has very little parts. One of the things that attracted me to the Onkyo is its built like a tank and has a good strong amplifier section, which is lacking in many of todays receivers in the $800 - $2,000 range.

What speakers do you currently have or will you be looking for a set of speakers?

My goal is to some day place a 120" screen between the Altec A-7's and maybe even build a custom JBL center channel to keep up with the A-7's. And depending on if I can start making better money I would add a pair of 18" JBL Pro subwoofers. If not then at least the 120" Stewart Screen with a nice Sony or JVC 1080p projector and Klipsch center and rear speaker and a SVS subwoofer.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Well, these microphone/set-up-systems do a pretty good job in the 1000$(+/-) price range, but plenty also depends on the room acoustics and such - along with personal preference/"knowledge level". Microphone gives a good (and easy) starting point, but the job is not necessarily done after that.. But sure, that microphone is nice to have, can´t argue with that.

E.g. with "YPAO" that the Yamaha-receivers are using ( Amplifier Technology : YAMAHA Audio and Video ) and my room, the microphone did a pretty good job with e.g. speakers size/distances, but I had to tweak at least the speaker balance/levels (the audio level in the "front center" seemed to be lightly "too low" compared to others, etc). Of course, it´s best to use some proper "test DVD/test signals" when tweaking audio, since movies are mixed so differently. You can´t really tweak e.g. "front center" by listening just one random movie.

It´s also good to remember, that e.g. YPAO in Yamaha v1800 is not the "same YPAO" than in the e.g. Yamaha v463. So "better" models have also better microphone/set-up.

I would personally read every review that I could find about the model(s) that really interest me and selected comments from the forums. It´s best to take the "forum talk" always with that "grain of salt". But then again, it´s the same with the reviews. And with "salesmen" at the stores. Try to find that "middle ground" after reading reviews/info.

edit1:


1) This is usually always lower in "real life" and when all speakers are active at the same time etc. Again, best to read some reviews (which might list the "real" power output). Then again, probably all have "enough" power for the normal use, so...

2) This is just another marketing gimmick from THX. Means very little.

There´s also video upscaling. Yamaha v1800 uses "ABT1010" ( Anchor Bay » Products » Semiconductors » ABT1010 ) for scaling and "iChip" for deinterlacing, while some Onkyo-models are using "Reon-VX HQV" ( HQV - Hollywood Quality Video Processing for HD : HQV Products TEST ). Some people feel that Reon is "better". Then again, at least v1800 doesn´t upscale via HDMI, so my Toshiba HD DVD-player (with "Reon") and PS3 does the (quality) upscaling now. So "upscaling quality" is probably not the nr.1 thing when buying A/V receiver (and in 1000$ +/- price range, upscaling is pretty good anyway).

edit2:

It´s also good to read this older thread when buying Onkyo/Yamaha-receivers:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...s-ma-bomb.html

When I bought my v1800, the latest firmware was updated to my receiver (via professional service people) before I took it home (and before I hooked it up, did all the settings, etc). Since PS3 doesn´t support "bitstream" with HD-audio yet (if ever), I´m not 100% sure are the "DTS bomb"-issues gone, but I assume that is the case. IMO: If you buy a new Onkyo/Yamaha-receiver now, it´s probably best to make sure that it has the latest firmware (or that it can be updated before you take it home).

edit3:

HDMI inputs are also quite important and IMO it´s good to have at least that 3-4 in (e.g. Onkyo/Yamaha have 4). e.g. I have now PS3, Toshiba HD DVD and Xbox 360 via HDMI, so I have "only" 1 left (perhaps new Blu-ray player at some point etc). Wii uses component.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

I would agree but I think it also depends on how the amplifier was rated as well. Some companies only rate there amplifiers at 1Khz with one channel. And some rate there amplifiers from 20Hz - 20KHz all channels driven. But many of the low and midrange receivers do not actually deliver the actual advertised power. One brand that comes closest is Onkyo at least where there higher end receivers are concerned.


I also agree with that assesment as well. While I do not see it as a bad thing, I also do not see it as being manditory in order to buy something. Not sure why I listed it in my earlier post but again I do not care if something is THX certified or not to be honest with you.

My main concerns is with my next receiver is that it has a strong amplifier section with good headroom. It must have a minimum power rating of 100 watts per channel, and a minimum of 3 HDMI 1.3 ports. Must have decoding for Dolby True HD, Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD MA. My main concern is to get the best bang for my buck and the best performance possible. THX or no THX that does not matter in the long run.

Update: 5/18/08 9:05pm

After spending most of the day researching like a mad man I have boiled my choices down to 3. The 905 and the 3808 are what I am aiming for and the 805 is if I can not come up with the cash for ether of the upper line models. On my list
1. Onkyo TX-NR905 7.1 Receiver MSRP$2,099
2. Denon AVR-3808ci 7.1 Receiver MSRP$1,599
3. Onkyo TX-SR805 7.1 Receiver MSRP$1,099

Off my list
Denon AVR-4308ci 7.1 Receiver MSRP$2,499
Yamaha RX-V1800 7.1 Receiver MSRP$1,299.95
Yamaha RX-V3800 7.1 Receiver MSRP$1,699.95
Pioneer VSX-91TXH 7.1 Receiver MSRP$1,200
Pioneer VSX-92TXH 7.1 Receiver MSRP$1,500
Pioneer VSX-94TXH 7.1 Receiver MSRP$1,800
Marantz SR7003 7.1 Receiver MSRP$1,399.99

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

I´ve read, that Onkyo-models get really hot (all receivers get warm after a while, but not necessarily "really hot"), which was one of the reasons why I didn´t want those models (and yes, my earlier receiver was Yamaha, so I kinda wanted the same/trusted brand - v1800/v3800 also got several good reviews). My room is on the "warm side" already (might be one reason why e.g. my PS3 has some fan noise), so I didn´t want any more unnecessary heat.

I fully understand, that these type of issues are blown out of proportion in the forums (let´s admit it; there´s always *something* with every model.. ), but this thing seems to be well documented.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

There are some nice features on the Yamaha's and they look nice, but I do not like what I see with the Bench Test that Sound and Vision did. Sure I could use a Yamaha as is and then add a power amp later. But with so many other gear to upgrade I have not idea how long I would have to live with the reciever with a weak power amp?

I am trying to keep my options open but so far for the most part it is mainly between the Denon AVR-3808ci and the Onkyo TX-NR905. It is very difficult to find another receiver with it's specs and features at that price. And I admit at first I was going to stay away but I am not to sure that it is that big of a deal. I have a feeling that as long as more heat generating components are placed into one case. We will see more and more receivers running as hot as the Onkyo 905. PC CPU's actually run pretty hot as do the CPU's on grafics cards, but alot of the newer ones have heat sinks and fans on them. This is just something we are not use to with consumer a/v equipment and I think it will be comon place very soon.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

I'm in the exact same position as you. Regardless of what has been said, my Yamaha RX-V2500 [other than the annoying OSD issue] has performed flawlessly and I have never been able to make it break a sweat power wise. Feature wise, I like what I see from the Onkyo 875, but I have read all sorts of horror stories about this receiver shooting sparks etc on Amazon. I know to take such reviews with a grain of salt, but there were too many for the claim to be totally baseless. I really want to buy the Onkyo, but I'm afraid I'll get [pun intended] burned. I Haven't eliminated the Yamaha 1800 or 3800 yet either. Can anyone comment on the 1800's/3800's peformance, especially the GUI over HDMI?

John

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Yes, some of these Onkyo-models are indeed the "cheapest way" at the moment to get that HDMI 1.3-receiver (obviously you´ll get HDMI 1.1/1.2-models more cheaply). They´ve also performed rather well in the reviews and such.

What brands/models are the "best" is of course another matter and I doubt that simple "black&white" answers to that are available. In the end, you just kinda "pick one" from the several "good options". New models are coming all the time..

I just recently read some reviews (from my local magazine) from the high-end A/V-receivers (mainly Yamaha DSP-Z11 and Denon AVC-A1HD) that cost around 5-7000$, and even with them, there were some minor "issues". It´s really hard to find one receiver, that can absolutely do *everything*, support *everything* and not have some "issues" that are blown out of proportion in the forums...

Since HDMI 1.3-receivers have just arrived to the stores (mainly) during this year, perhaps it´s just better to wait a while and get one in next year (more models, cheaper prices, "bug free?", etc). Then again, I couldn´t wait, so don´t listen to me.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

It seems like the days of a/v gear that simply works every time is over. There is alot of software driven features now and there seems to be no perfect gear anymore. I understand that even McIntosh had some bugs with there newer preamp. And with all the heat generating components being placed into todays receievers I see models like the Onkyo's being more comonplace in the future. PC's have processors and graphics card cpu's that run pretty hot but most people don't give that a moments thought.




Getting back to the topics of finding a receiver now. When it boils down to it there is alot of good gear out there, and very few companies making actual junk. I may be alittle off but IMHO I think that with all the features they are putting into these receivers. I beleive that they cut perfromance here and there and the internal amplifier is one of the areas effected.

Out of the following brands right now Yamaha, Pioneer, Marantz, Sony and Onkyo. Onkyo is the one brand that is coming closest to its advertised power specifications, the others are falling short. They also seem to be using smaller transformers which would account for the difference in the specsifications. Internal scalers are another area where many models seem to stumble as well. Just my theory at this particular time.

There are two ways I can go with my receiver upgrade at this time. I could go with a lower end receiver than what I really want. For example I could purchase a Onkyo TX-SR805, Yamaha RX-V1800, Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH or a Sony STR-DA4300 and add a power amp and a external scaler later. Or get a higher end receiver now and maybe add something later if needed, depending on how that particular model works out? And for the low end maybe the Sony 4300 was a bad example, not sure I would want it even with a external amplifier? One of the only ways I would have a 4300 ES in my a/v rack, I would have to add a external amplifer like a Emotiva MPS-2.7 with 200 watts per channel at 8 ohms X 7 (MSRP $1,699) and a Denon DVP-602ci Digital Video Processor with Silicon Optix HQV Realta Video Processing ( MSRP $2,499). Not sure that combo with the 4300 would be worth it? As the end cost for 4300 with upgrades would end up being around $5,197. I would be much better off with the Denon AVR-5308ci at that price.

While I am not locking myself down to a particular model receiver yet. The Onkyo's are offering alot of features and performance for the money and its hard to pass up, even with the heat issue. The Denon's cost a little more but they offer good performance and reputation for good gear. I have wanted a Denon receiver for over 8 years now so picking an Onkyo, Integra or even a Yamaha is difficult. The main thing is to listen to my options and look at the features and specications and match it up to my needs and not going by the name on the front alone. While that should not be the deciding factor we all know that certain brands have better reputations than others.

At this time it all depends on the money I can save up in a resonable amount of time and how patient I am. The good thing about going with the cheaper model is that it can be upgraded with external products.

Out of everything available and having the newer internal decoding these would be my choices to work with.

My lower end choices:
Onkyo TX-SR805 (Most bang for the buck)
Onkyo TX-SR705 (I think this one has more issues than other, not sure ?)
Yamaha RX-V863 (Hate the way the face plate looks)
Yamaha RX-V1800
Pioneer VSX-91TXH
Integra DTR-6.8
Integra DTR-7.8

Higher end models:
Marantz SR-7002
Marantz SR-8002
Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH
Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH
Onkyo TX-SR875
Onkyo TX-NR905
Yamaha RX-V3800
Denon AVR-3808ci
Denon AVR-4308ci
Integra DTR-8.8

But currently I have narrowed it down to these choice: (Could change)
Denon AVR-3808ci
Onkyo TX-NR905
Onkyo TX-SR805
Integra DTR-7.8 (Just added) Need to research further


It seems like the days of a/v gear that simply works every time is over. There is alot of software driven features now and there seems to be no perfect gear anymore. I understand that even McIntosh had some bugs with there newer preamp. And with all the heat generating components being placed into todays receievers I see models like the Onkyo's being more comonplace in the future. PC's have processors and graphics card cpu's that run pretty hot but most people don't give that a moments thought.


Getting back to the topics of finding a receiver now. When it boils down to it there is alot of good gear out there, and very few companies making actual junk. I may be alittle off but IMHO I think that with all the features they are putting into these receivers. I beleive that they cut perfromance here and there and the internal amplifier is one of the areas effected.




Out of the following brands right now Yamaha, Pioneer, Marantz, Sony and Onkyo. Onkyo is the one brand that is coming closest to its advertised power specifications, the others are falling short. They also seem to be using smaller transformers which would account for the difference in the specsifications. Internal scalers are another area where many models seem to stumble as well. Just my theory at this particular time.

There are two ways I can go with my receiver upgrade at this time. I could go with a lower end receiver than what I really want. For example I could purchase a Onkyo TX-SR805, Yamaha RX-V1800, Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH or a Sony STR-DA4300 and add a power amp and a external scaler later. Or get a higher end receiver now and maybe add something later if needed, depending on how that particular model works out? And for the low end maybe the Sony 4300 was a bad example, not sure I would want it even with a external amplifier? One of the only ways I would have a 4300 ES in my a/v rack, I would have to add a external amplifer like a Emotiva MPS-2.7 with 200 watts per channel at 8 ohms X 7 (MSRP $1,699) and a Denon DVP-602ci Digital Video Processor with Silicon Optix HQV Realta Video Processing ( MSRP $2,499). Not sure that combo with the 4300 would be worth it? As the end cost for 4300 with upgrades would end up being around $5,197. I would be much better off with the Denon AVR-5308ci at that price.

While I am not locking myself down to a particular model receiver yet. The Onkyo's are offering alot of features and performance for the money and its hard to pass up, even with the heat issue. The Denon's cost a little more but they offer good performance and reputation for good gear. I have wanted a Denon receiver for over 8 years now so picking an Onkyo, Integra or even a Yamaha is difficult. The main thing is to listen to my options and look at the features and specications and match it up to my needs and not going by the name on the front alone. While that should not be the deciding factor we all know that certain brands have better reputations than others.

At this time it all depends on the money I can save up in a resonable amount of time and how patient I am. The good thing about going with the cheaper model is that it can be upgraded with external products.

Out of everything available and having the newer internal decoding these would be my choices to work with.

My lower end choices:
Onkyo TX-SR805 (Most bang for the buck)
Onkyo TX-SR705 (I think this one has more issues than other, not sure ?)
Yamaha RX-V863 (Hate the way the face plate looks)
Yamaha RX-V1800
Pioneer VSX-91TXH
Integra DTR-6.8
Integra DTR-7.8

Higher end models:
Marantz SR-7002
Marantz SR-8002
Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH
Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH
Onkyo TX-SR875
Onkyo TX-NR905
Yamaha RX-V3800
Denon AVR-3808ci
Denon AVR-4308ci
Integra DTR-8.8

But currently I have narrowed it down to these choice: (Could change)
Denon AVR-3808ci
Onkyo TX-NR905
Onkyo TX-SR805

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Yes, but the times has simply changed. People now want/demand/expect all kind of features from "audio" to "video". If something (no matter how small) is "missing" (and the other receiver has that), that certain receiver is "no good" (even if that´s not really the case). In many ways we are kinda spoiled.

Internet-forums are sometimes like a double-sided sword, since people caught up in every little thing that is "reported" there and often then draw huge conclusions. It really takes some patience, knowledge, time and humor to go through some of these "user reports". If people don´t know anything e.g. about the A/V-receivers, they might just make their decisions purely based on these "heat", "clipping", "DTS bomb", "upscaling chip", "HDMI 1.1/1.2/1.3", etc etc issues that are reported in the forums. Truth is of course "out there".


To me it seems, that all of these "good brands" basically have "enough" power for the normal, heavy use of 2.0-music and 5.1-films. Am I mistaken? I personally feel, that people look to much into these power specifications. It´s not, that you need all that power that the receiver is capable of giving (certainly you don´t need that "max power" all the time, only here-and-there).

BTW. There are reviews in the net that list the "real power specifications" I´m sure, it´s not that they´re "secret information" of some sort. (not that you said it´s)

I´m personally not that familiar with "power amplifiers". In which circumstances people need them? Just curious.


This is probably only my personal opinion, but I believe that the time of "external scalers" is gone (at least in some degree). Many HD-players and A/V-receivers have now quality upscaling (at least "good enough" for most of the movie buffs - even the demanding ones) and there are actually "limits" to this upscaling-hype (talking generally here, not about you Dave).

DVD has that certain resolution (NTSC/PAL) and certain "limitations" and even the best, most kick-ass upscaling can´t make SD to "High Definition". It just doesn´t happen, not even with these "Super Upconversions" or other stuff that the marketing departments are trying to invent (if you ask me, they´re mainly BS).

The truth is, that "upscaling" is now also another marketing thing and companies like to throw these "Silicon Optix" and "HQV" to the spec sheet. Why? They want to advertise "quality upscaling". Fair enough and good for the customers. Other reason still is, that there are people, who can´t make the difference between these upscaling chips (I can´t really blame them!). They only base their "knowledge" to the other people in the forums etc, that have said that e.g. "Silicon Optix is da s**t". Of course, I don´t say that it isn´t "da s**t", just that I doubt that there´s one magical upscaling chip that rules the planet.

Don´t get me wrong. I have huge amount of SD DVDs at home and I still enjoy them (for the years to come, probably). And I also enjoy "quality upscaling". But every time I watch some SD DVD - even with that "quality upscaling", I can see that it´s "not HD"..

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Oh so true on so many levels from a/v equipment to having pizza delivered.


I totally agree with you on this. I have a decent size SD-DVD collection and for example if I was to watch Pirates of the Caribbean 2: Deadmans Chest for example. The movie does not look as good as it's Blu-ray counterpart in 1080p. The same could be said when compairing SD-DVD to HD-DVD even. Depending on the player the upscaling can help make the SD-DVD look better but it is still not HD. And I will leave you with one example where I do not think upscaling looked better, I watched the SD-DVD of War Of The Worlds with Tom Cruise and it looked horrible IMHO.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

The one that I would highly recommend that has only been mentioned in passing is the the Marantz line. Either the SR7002 or SR8002 are great choices that crushed all the Onkyo's, Pioneer's, Denon's up to the 3808 that I tested. The only one that comes close to either of these Marantz with regards to sound quality for both music AND movies is the Denon 4308. If you plan on spending up to $1500 range, I would beg you to try those Marantz's. Play some of your favorite music and you may find, like I did, that Marantz simply kills most others for music quality.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Just ordered the Onkyo SR805. I'll plan on adding a cooling fan, although my research indicates there are already 2 inside the unit. I know it's not a strong performer in video scaling, but I'll probably let my projector handle this task. Other than that it appears to have everything I will need for the forseeable future. I was also looking at the 875, but didn't think the Ethernet port, extra 10 WPC, and HQV upscaling were worth the extra $$ for my situation. I'd be lying if I didn't admit I'm a little nervous about the reliablilty, but it's more than likely the result of reading too many non-professional reviews. We'll soon see as my unit should be here by next Wednesday.

John

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Since I have some time before I have the money saved up. I will take your advise Gebby44 and do some critical listening of the Marantz SR7002 and SR8002. I have not gone to listen to a Marantz in a few years at least. It was alot easier when I was living in the Los Angeles area to be able to check out many different brands. I will have to find a Marantz dealer in the area.

The Marantz was one next one in line to the Onkyo to come closer to the advertised power output listed on company websites. I have done listening to the Denon and have always loved there gear. And the top model for Onkyo are not only stout but sound very good as well. One thing that Marantz has in common with Denon and Onkyo is its use of the Audyssey MultEQ XT Auto-Setup/Room EQ. The nice thing about the SR-8002 is that it’s amplifier sections should be very good and it to like the Onkyo 905 and Denon 5308, it to has a toroidal power transformer.

Marantz SR7002
110 Watts x 7 Channel Advertised Power Output

Sound & Vision Bench Test
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 150/236 watts (21.8/23.7 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 93 watts (19.7 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 83 watts (19.2 dBW)


Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH
140 Watts x 7 (20Hz - 20 kHz, 8 ohms, .09% THD) Advertised Power Output

Sound & Vision Bench Test
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 178/300 W (22.5/24.8 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 84 W* (19.2 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 61 W* (17.9 dBW)


Onkyo TX-SR875
140 Watts x 7 Channel Advertised Power Output

Sound & Vision Bench Test
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 201/322 watts (23/25.1 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 141 watts (21.5 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 128 watts (21.1 dBW)


Denon AVR-4308ci
140 Watts x 7 Channel Advertised Power Output

Sound & Vision Bench Test
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 171/280 W (22.3/24.5 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 126 W (21 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 111 W (20.5 dBW)

Delivers __ under advertised power output according to Sound & Vision:
2). Marantz SR7002 27 Watts
4). Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH 79 Watts
1). Onkyo TX-SR875 12 Watts
3). Denon AVR-3808ci 29 Watts


My current purchase list (as of 5/21/08):
1). Onkyo TX-NR905
2). Denon AVR-3808ci
3). Onkyo TX-SR805

Receivers I am going to check out for consideration and possible change of purchase list:
1). Integra DTR-7.8
2). Marantz SR-7002
3). Marantz SR-8002


Gebby44 I will let you know what I thought and if they do or do not get added to the purchase list. I would not be surprised if the list does not go through another change once the new models come out. The Onkyo 905 remains a stout receiver and a model that may be discontinued if Onkyo is indeed make very little money on it, due to manufacturing costs. But one thing I am certain of is that there will be one really nice receiver sitting in my a/v rack before the end of January 09’ at the absolute latest!

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

I would very much like to hear how this works out for you and how well it performs. As it is also one of my current options as well to replace my current Yamaha RX-V995. Do you currently have a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player right now? The plus side that even with the scaler not being a strong performer, as long as the scaler in your HD player or projector are good. Then the scaler in the receiver will not matter especially since a 1080p signal would just pass straight through anyway. And you can allways defeat the receivers scaler so can be by passed and all sources would not be effected.

The first thing I would do once you receive your new 805 IMHO would be to verify what firmware version is installed. If it does not have the newest version I would have it updated asap. One of the fixes is the DTS-bomb has been corrected. As well as other problems that I am not aware of but I would update it if needed.

One possibility that I have thought about if I to purchased the 805 is that I would possible add a power amp later on. I was thinking about adding a Emotiva MPS-2 7 channel power amp to the config, that is if I buy the 805. But of course I shall see what happens once I have a receiver in my hot little hands.

Emotiva MPS-2 7 channel power amp (MSRP $1,699)
200 watts per channel at 8 ohms
300w/ch @ 4 ohms
400w/ch @ 2 ohms
THD less than .015%, 20Hz-20kHz with 80kHz measurement bandwidth
Completely Stable into 2 ohm loads
High efficiency Class H power amplifier design
350VA Toroidal transformer
modular mono block design
weighs 115 pounds
5 year warranty

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

When I was researching receivers a couple of months ago Marantz was always in contention. Especially the factory refurbs at ac4l.com. Major drawbacks of the 8002/7002 were lack of 1080p video up-conversion, which really wasn't that important to me, and higher price (which was). At the time, Marantz receivers were not discounted very much by authorized dealers compared to other brands. But then again, the 905 was also close to msrp (at the time).

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

I'll keep you posted through the forum on my experience with the Onkyo. "No" I don't currently own a Blu Ray or HD DVD player. That will be changing soon though.

John