How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

WOW, that looks really good!

And as the caption points out, Smilebox would actually make the SD-DVD transfer look better, because more resolution would be dedicated to the film image, rather than the letterboxing.

Which makes the omission of a smileboxed version from the UCE just silly.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

I have been informed that the Cinerama Adventure documentary
has over 20 minutes of Smilebox process shots in it and it will
be included in both Blue Ray and standard versions of How The
West Was Won. So those who only buy the standard vers. will
be able to see many examples of SmileBox from all the old
travelogues and HTWWW.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

I'm not sure how little snippets are supposed to make up for the lack of an alternate feature presentation, but ok. I guess the SD folks will have to take the little crumbs that Warners throws us.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Yeah, that seems more like a teaser than anything...

Don't get me wrong, it's nice to know that will be included and I'm still greatly looking forward to this release, but the decision to make the Smilebox feature exclusive to BD is unfair to Warner's DVD supporters and film fans. I would've gladly paid an extra $5-10 for the option to view this film in Smilebox on SD-DVD and with the price point of the UCE, it should've been added on an extra disc. Bad move!

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

I see nothing unfair in it at all. The studios are trying to push consumers towards Blu-ray and one of the ways to accomplish that task is offering exclusive material on BR releases which is in their rights of doing so.







Crawdaddy

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

OK, not unfair, just a really silly business decision.
They aren't really, the price of the discs is still too high. Dropping the price is the most effective way to make consumers adopt a new format.

At this stage the corporations are happy with big profit margins from early adopters instead of pricing blu-ray so it has mass appeal. This is like DVD from 1997 until about Christmas 2000, when the format finally reached mass appeal thanks to the distributors cutting their profit margins, and department stores using DVDs as loss leaders.

At this stage the corporations need to pay off all the HD infrastructure they had to invest in to physically create blu-ray transfers and discs. Once the bean counters feel they've paid that off then they will drop the discs so they are at parity with SD-DVD prices. Only then blu-ray will take off. This would make sense if there was a blu-ray UCE version, but there isn't. For a blu-ray owner who wants the printed extras from the UCE they have to buy an SD version that they don't need. To me it is profiteering structuring the releases in a way that a blu-ray owner needs to also buy the SD version if they want everything. What are they doing, encouraging blu-ray owners to go back to SD-DVDs?

I think they should've sold the following versions:

2 DVD SE (Letterboxed) $20 (i.e. what they are releasing)
2 blu-ray SE (Letterboxed + Smileboxed) $25 (i.e. what they are releasing)
4 DVD UCE (Letterboxed + Smileboxed + all the printed extras) $45
2 blu-ray UCE (Letterboxed + Smileboxed + all the printed extras) $50

I don't think $45 is excessive for a 4 DVD set. The SRP 2.5 years ago for the 4 DVD Ben Hur Collector's Edition was $40, so I'm adding a generous $5 worth of inflation.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Well, since there is no longer any worry about buying the 'wrong' HD format, I think Warner or any studio is fully justified in saving a unique presentation of the film for the Bd. I would think the rationale would be that Bd owners are more concerned with the a/v presentation than the paper accessories. And if you don't need or want Bd capability then the converse is likely true.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Why, i just pre-ordered this on Blu-ray from Warner Home Video for under $21. Warner's Blu-ray prices are the best. Most of the pre-order discs are under $20. This is a 2 disc set, and i am very happy to give them my 20 bucks for this!

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

I don't know how you can prove it to be a silly business decision. Furthermore, I buy most of my BRDs at slightly higher pricing than SD DVD which seems reasonable to me considering the presentation improvements I'm receiving with the BR over SD. Also, four different releases of this title isn't something the retailers want at this time and probably don't really care for three of them.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Rick, do they deliver by street date?

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

They have lately.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

The advantages of BluRay are well accounted; Consumers are paying for optimal image and sound quality that's far surpassed and improved upon SD. The features and discs themselves do not need any extra "push" in the way of exclusive content. I don't see how you don't see how that might be construed by many who have not adapted to the new format as being unfair. Not anymore so than a teacher giving treats to half of the students in the class but neglecting the others. If WHV wants to abandon it's standard-def format and the multi million dollar annual profits that coincide than so be it. Let ALL new catalog entries and lesser titles be released in the new format and I'll upgrade and continue to support the studios in their endeavors. But so long as they chose to continue releasing product in Standard DVD and so long as it continues to prove a heavy asset for the company (thanks to the continued support of US! - the consumer) than I expect nothing but the utmost effort from every release and optimal presentation in the formats available. So if releasing a CinemaScope feature in the Smileboxed format is the choice presentation or preferred viewing and the studio has gone to the trouble and finance of creating a transfer -- than I expect that OPTION to be available, at least to those of us willing to spend more than double the cost on the so-called "ultimate" packaging of the feature. In the case of this upcoming release, it appears that Warner Home Video have put much thought and effort into their release and I will eagerly purchase and support, however, if there appears a growing bias against SD-DVD and the studios opt to make the format less appealing to consumers... I will simply spend my money elsewhere, on releases that demand the MSRP on the box because they offer the most for our money's worth! To ask anything else from any company is just foolish. I don't understand why some forum members so often chose to subjectively jump behind certain studios in defense of issues that are clearly not favored by consumers or simply poor decisions reflected towards buyers. There's no point in stating the obvious -- Warner Home Video wishes that everyone would go out and spend the extra money on the BD version of their releases; They want to promote and sell their new technology. But where would that leave their remaining DVD releases? How much would they lose on the two-disc and UCE set of this film without us as supporters? We're spending the money on their products and they should therefore deliver as much as possible within financial reason and capability and certainly not any less so than discs in any other format being sold to others! So yes, WHV want us to buy into BluRay, but there are millions of fans of cinema who are choosing not to for dozens of valid reasons (some who simply can't afford the investment and hardware) and no reasoning in the world can possibly argue that it's fair and respectable to these consumers for the studios to neglect significant features that affect the overall presentation of films and therefore subsequently subtract from the products sold. We're not talking about a trailer, still galleries or video introduction here. WHV are choosing to not allow the millions of movie fans who've not bought into BD, to enjoy this release on the same level as those that have upgraded. That to me is the definition of unfair, and to try and argue otherwise is absurd. The answer is not to make one format LESS appealing to the general public... it's to do as much as possible to make the new format MORE appealing in the way of cost, presentation, availability, titles, etc. Supplemental exclusives and more so, separate presentations or cuts of a film are terrible ideas that will only sour consumers of Standard-Def product. Rightly so. It's important for those of us who support the SD-DVD market to make this clear to the studios before it becomes problematic. This is still one of the stronger early releases of 2008 and one which I'm sure we're all looking forward to, but the decision to not include the option to offer the Smilebox presentation to all viewers was a bad one! Let the technological improvements of BluRay speak for itself and gradually the public will realize the merits and superiority of the format. Attempting to downgrade the features of Standard-Def DVD will only frustrate those who have continually shown support to studios like WHV.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Marco - can you please set this out in paragraphs. I find it very difficult to read such close-set text.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

EXACTLY!

I couldn't have said it better myself, and this is one of the reasons I've yet to upgrade to the new format, even though I'm hardware ready (save for an actual BD player; the least of expenses). I'm still not satisfied with the way the studios are structuring their releases and until SD-DVD and BD-DVD are at equal in terms of features, content, design, etc. I'm simply not interested in having to chose between the two. If BD were the standard in which all releases (including low-tier titles which may never realistically see upgrade) were offered to home video, than I'd certainly opt for the improved format. But for now I'll stick with the current SD format as I'm satisfied with the presentation quality viewed on my HT and I'm more interested in the preservation of cinema and film itself; ie. the largely neglected market for the type of releases which will not see High Definition release for at least another decade, if ever. If studios like Warner Bros. at least afforded consumers the same odds in selection (UCE, features, etc) than I might pick and chose which titles I'd like to upgrade. Surely collecting a library of all the established and high profile classics in High Definition. But instead the studios play each format against the other by making certain options available in only one and not the other. No thanks!

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

This will be my first order with them. Not to often i can beat an Amazon price on Blu-rays. I wish i knew where people get these discount codes that got me the good price! I got How the West was Won, Batman Begins, and Dark City Blu-rays all total for $50 and change. Any order over $50 had free shipping too! Also they will ship each title as they come out, and not hold them.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

I refuse to read any long posts without paragraphs.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

You're not missing anything.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Most of the paper is from the 35mm general release so I don't know why they include it.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Except for the omission of the paper extras, I can't believe people are worried about the standard DVD edition.

Everyone should just skip the DVD and wait until getting into BluRay if you're not into it already. WB would have been fully justified in making this BluRay-exclusive entirely.


The doc on the Oklahoma! SE on widescreen formats is a load of crap. Martin Hart apologized for appearing in it since they got pretty much everything wrong on technical stuff.

Oklahoma! only has a few ultra wide angle shots that would benefit from Smileboxing. Same thing for Around the World in 80 Days. Both had a handful of "bug eye lens" shots, but not for the entire film. I said this in the other thread, but there's absolutely no point in using Smilebox on anything but 3-panel Cinerama films. It's entirely for correcting geometry, which is not an issue for single-camera films. Regardless of whether or not they were shown or exhibited that was in the original release.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Marco, since it sounds like you know at some point you are likely to introduce a Bd player in your chain, it seems foolish you are still buying up new issues in stanard def anyway. At some point you're going to look back at those with the same annoyance as new owners of HDTVs look at all the non 16:9 discs they continued to buy while knowing how strongly other people were petioning against non-a releases.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

So is Smilebox correcting for screen curvature - i.e. the fact the left and right panels of a Cinerama projection are closer to the audience's eyes than the centre panel - or is it correcting for wide angle distortion caused by the 28mm lenses?

Or is it correcting for a bit of both?
Well, maybe he will get the SD UCE because there isn't a blu-ray UCE.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

And after they only sold a couple of thousand BR copies they'd can that idea for the next 2 years and we'd all be hung out to dry on marquee classics.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Artwork for Errol Flynn Westerns:

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Do you honestly think they would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars preserving the film to digital, then decide not to release it on a format that has an install base of about 750 million players world wide?

I wonder what Time-Warner's share holders would think if they did that...

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

No offence Patrick, but that is ridiculous.

At the moment, I get by with a crappy old telly from Kmart, and a cheap-arse DVD player. I can't afford to upgrade to HD anything at the moment. To make the most of the experience, it would mean having to purchase a new home theatre arrangement.

Although I work full time, I still have to sacrifice to purchase SD as it is- which I don't mind doing because I love my films.

Nice for some who can afford it, but for others who simply don't have the money, or are still making up their minds about upgrading, it is a a little far fetched. Why should we miss out just because we can't afford to upgrade. The company is still getting our money - just on SD instead of BR.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

I'm not saying that they shouldn't put out the SD version, but it just seems like a title worth waiting for. This isn't meant to sound elitist. I'm still using a 20" CRT, Wal-Mart 5.1 system, and SD-only (not even a computer drive). But I'm already holding off on a lot of titles out of anticipation for the BluRay editions. I'd love to go ahead and get the SD release, but I'd rather wait until I can see it in 1080p.

However, I didn't notice that the regular SD edition is going for so cheap, so disregard.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Re: color on the new HTWWW, check out this thread:
:: View topic - How the West Was Won

Scroll down to domino harvey´s post for a before-and-after restoration comparison. Restored picture element has significantly desatured color.
Hopefully it won´t look that way on the DVD.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

I don't think those images represent a final grading of the colour. I mean they are mainly designed to demonstrate how the seems have been removed.

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Maybe I am looking in the wrong spot.

I see the Blu-ray available on the WB site for $26.95

Meanwhile, Amazon is selling for $23.95

Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Ron,
There is a 25% off code you could use at WHV and it's the type of a code you can use multiple times and if your order is over $50, you get free shipping. You will get charge a sales tax.