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How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

#31
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4/28/08 at 7:17pm
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard--W
I welcome the other western releases, particularly John Sturges' THE LAW AND JAKE WADE, with its Death Valley landscapes in Technicolor and Vista Vision
Are you sure it was shot in VistaVision? IMDB says it was CinemaScope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P
Now what I totally don't get, is this silly obsession so many of you have over the "smilebox" format. It's one thing to see Cinerama in all its curved-screen glory, but to try and simulate that on DVD? It's just stupid. It makes a ridiculously distorted picture and compromises a lot of resolution in the center. Why anybody would want to watch a movie in smilebox is beyond me. Mini-rant over.
It would use more resolution than any of the 2.76:1 Ultra Panavision releases on SD-DVD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepak Shenoy
I think we are going to see more and more of this as studios try to push Blu-Ray. One sure way to get consumers to take the Blu-Ray plunge is to offer content exclusive to that format.
I fear you are right, but to me that is an admission that the higher resolution audio and video of blu-ray isn't enough to motivate adoption of the new format.

I've got a better way to entice people to buy a blu-ray player - drop the price of the discs so they are the same as SD-DVD.
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#32
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4/28/08 at 7:45pm
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Howson
Are you sure it was shot in VistaVision? IMDB says it was CinemaScope.
Ooops.
Of course The Law and Jake Wade is CinemaScope, and an exceptional use of CinemaScope. I misthunk. Sturges was a composition and blocking maestro. This western looks good.

Quote:
I've got a better way to entice people to buy a blu-ray player - drop the price of the discs so they are the same as SD-DVD.
Words of wisdom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P
Now what I totally don't get, is this silly obsession so many of you have over the "smilebox" format. It's one thing to see Cinerama in all its curved-screen glory, but to try and simulate that on DVD? It's just stupid. It makes a ridiculously distorted picture and compromises a lot of resolution in the center. Why anybody would want to watch a movie in smilebox is beyond me. Mini-rant over.
Having seen an extended sample of the smilebox I assure you that is no more unnatural than letterbox. One gets used to it. Since it is an option for people who want it and not mandatory nobody is going to feel deprived. Also let's not overstate the resolution issue. It looks fine to me and I'm pickier with WHV than most of you.

All Cinerama films should be released to home video with a smilebox option. Now.
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#33
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4/29/08 at 2:27am
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

I wonder what happened to Silver River?

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Little Darlings (1980), My Cousin Rachel (1952), The Deep Blue Sea (1955), The White Cliffs of Dover (1944), Born to Be Bad (1950), Ivy (1947), Reckless (1935), Springtime in the Rockies (1942), The Barretts of Wimpole Street

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#34
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4/29/08 at 2:39am
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey
I wonder what happened to Silver River?
I might be wrong, but I think the press release is wrong and omitted this title by mistake. We'll see once this boxset is up for preorder.






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#35
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4/29/08 at 4:33am
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
I might be wrong, but I think the press release is wrong and omitted this title by mistake. We'll see once this boxset is up for preorder.






Crawdaddy
I agree. The last two Flynn boxsets were five films each so this one should also mirror that. I also do think Silver River was omitted. I mean $49.95 for 4 films? Should be 5. Bring on Signature Collection Volume 4! Or it would be Volume 3 since this is just a Western Collection. MORE Errol Flynn on DVD dammit! I'll buy them!
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#36
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4/29/08 at 4:59am
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Vol 1 and Vol 2 for Errol Flynn were enough for me. My least favorite in those box sets was Dodge city as I'm not much of a western fan except for a few that star Gary Cooper, Gregory Peck or James Stewart. I actually cancelled out a pre-order for the MGM Day of the Outlaw after seeing it recently on tcm. I would say that I am at least 90 percent less of a western fan than most people that post on this forum. I did recently watch for the first time and liked The Wild Bunch but you really can't go wrong with any western that John Wayne disliked.
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#37
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4/29/08 at 5:22am
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMel
Vol 1 and Vol 2 for Errol Flynn were enough for me. My least favorite in those box sets was Dodge city as I'm not much of a western fan except for a few that star Gary Cooper, Gregory Peck or James Stewart. I actually cancelled out a pre-order for the MGM Day of the Outlaw after seeing it recently on tcm. I would say that I am at least 90 percent less of a western fan than most people that post on this forum. I did recently watch for the first time and liked The Wild Bunch but you really can't go wrong with any western that John Wayne disliked.

Haha - I absolutely loved Dodge City!!
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#38
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4/29/08 at 8:01am
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Posted by Richard--W:
Quote:
Since it is an option for people who want it and not mandatory nobody is going to feel deprived.

Having only seen screenshots, I am leery of this format. However, as long as it is an option and not a requirement, I am OK with it. I'd like to see it in action, though.

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#39
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4/29/08 at 8:28am
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

The Museum of Modern Art in NYC showed the "Cinerama Adventure" documentary recently, and much of it was in Smilebox. I have to say it was awfully close to the real thing, minus the immense scale, of course. I've seen "How the West Was Won" in Cinerama 4 times, so I'm really happy about the Smilebox edition. All I have to do now is buy a Blu-Ray player before August 26th ...
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#40
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4/29/08 at 9:39am
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

I also suspect that SILVER RIVER will be included in the set. Although they would have to "pigeon hole" market it in a Show Biz bio set (THE HELEN MORGAN STORY, LOOK FOR THE SILVER LINING, SO THIS IS LOVE, THE STORY OF WILL ROGERS), I'd love to see them bring out TOO MUCH, TOO SOON in any context. Flynn as John Barrymore in the clips from TOO MUCH, TOO SOON in "The Adventures of Errol Flynn" looked fascinating!!

Charles Hoyt

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#41
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4/29/08 at 9:59am
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

You can see an example of smilebox here: The Cinerama Adventure - "Smilebox" Process

By the way, this 93-minute doc is included so yay! But like I said before, hopefully there will be a good restoration feature on HWWW too.
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#42
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4/29/08 at 10:06am
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Huelbig
The Museum of Modern Art in NYC showed the "Cinerama Adventure" documentary recently, and much of it was in Smilebox. I have to say it was awfully close to the real thing, minus the immense scale, of course. I've seen "How the West Was Won" in Cinerama 4 times, so I'm really happy about the Smilebox edition. All I have to do now is buy a Blu-Ray player before August 26th ...

*Sigh*; everytime I see a Blu-ray release I fancy, I talk myself round to sticking with SD for a while longer. But, this...

Get thee behind me Warners.
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#43
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4/29/08 at 5:04pm
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard--W
Ooops.
Of course The Law and Jake Wade is CinemaScope, and an exceptional use of CinemaScope. I misthunk. Sturges was a composition and blocking maestro. This western looks good.


Words of wisdom.


Having seen an extended sample of the smilebox I assure you that is no more unnatural than letterbox. One gets used to it. Since it is an option for people who want it and not mandatory nobody is going to feel deprived. Also let's not overstate the resolution issue. It looks fine to me and I'm pickier with WHV than most of you.

All Cinerama films should be released to home video with a smilebox option. Now.

All 3-strip Cinerama films. The 70mm Cinerama films do not need the smilebox.

Roland Lataille
Cinerama web site:
http://cineramahistory.com

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#44
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4/29/08 at 6:04pm
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulP
You can see an example of smilebox here: The Cinerama Adventure - "Smilebox" Process

That example of smilebox uses pretty mild curvature. It actually doesn't look too bad. The examples I had seen on the new Oklahoma! DVD were horrendously distorted.
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#45
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5/1/08 at 2:12pm
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

DVD Empire has the Ultimate box up for 50% off, only twenty bucks, a no-brainer really!
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#46
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5/1/08 at 2:44pm
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P
That example of smilebox uses pretty mild curvature. It actually doesn't look too bad. The examples I had seen on the new Oklahoma! DVD were horrendously distorted.
Smilebox on Oklahoma? I'm guessing this would have been the Todd-AO version (shot simultaneously in CinemaScope). Where did you see these examples and do you have a link?

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#47
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5/1/08 at 4:59pm
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

I thought the smilebox demos were on the KING KONG (1933) dvd. . .

We are just surrealist pilgrims, melting clocks in marble halls. . .

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#48
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5/1/08 at 5:18pm
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

There are smilebox demos on King Kong, but Mark-P was referring to some in connection with Oklahoma, which struck me as odd.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#49
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5/1/08 at 7:18pm
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
Smilebox on Oklahoma? I'm guessing this would have been the Todd-AO version (shot simultaneously in CinemaScope). Where did you see these examples and do you have a link?

It's in one of the special features documentaries. Since I can't find any examples posted anywhere on the net, I'll post my own screencap tomorrow.
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#50
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5/1/08 at 7:25pm
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
Smilebox on Oklahoma? I'm guessing this would have been the Todd-AO version (shot simultaneously in CinemaScope). Where did you see these examples and do you have a link?
It's part of a documentary comparing Todd-AO with Cinerama. Basically they argue that Todd-AO was intended to be better than CinemaScope, but cheaper than Cinerama.




I don't know why a Todd-AO film would have to be smileboxed as drastically as a Cinerama film. Were Todd-AO screens as deeply curved as Cinerama screens, I didn't think so.
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#51
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5/1/08 at 9:41pm
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Howson
I don't know why a Todd-AO film would have to be smileboxed as drastically as a Cinerama film. Were Todd-AO screens as deeply curved as Cinerama screens, I didn't think so.

Thank you Simon! Now I don't have to make my own screencap. This was the silly-looking curvature I was referring to in my first post, ranting about smilebox. But if the smilebox curvature is the subtle version shown in PaulP's link then I am all for it.
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#52
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5/1/08 at 10:07pm
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P
Thank you Simon! Now I don't have to make my own screencap. This was the silly-looking curvature I was referring to in my first post, ranting about smilebox. But if the smilebox curvature is the subtle version shown in PaulP's link then I am all for it.
I just don't think Smilebox works well with Todd-AO material. Or more specifically, the curvature is too radical for a Todd-AO film on those examples from the documentary. I suspect that for a Cinerama film the smilebox format will look a lot better, probably better than watching it flat.

Perhaps also the fact the documentary is 4:3 caused a problem, and to top it off the footage was interlaced. I captured it in VLC with a deinterlacing filter, but that just made it look blurry.
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#53
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5/2/08 at 12:35am
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

When Cinerama movies aren't smileboxed, they suffer from great distortions on the horizontal plane, where lines are broken in 2 parts along the screen joints. Smilebox is the best way to watch Cinerama, better than letterbox and of course better than pan-and-scan.

I'm just a little bothered that they have apparently erased the lines, which I thought were sometimes obtrusive but very cool.
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#54
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5/2/08 at 10:15am
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Howson
It's part of a documentary comparing Todd-AO with Cinerama. Basically they argue that Todd-AO was intended to be better than CinemaScope, but cheaper than Cinerama.




I don't know why a Todd-AO film would have to be smileboxed as drastically as a Cinerama film. Were Todd-AO screens as deeply curved as Cinerama screens, I didn't think so.

The screens for 3-strip Cinerama should have a 146 degree curve. For 70mm Todd-AO they would be 120 degree. But films like Oklahoma only used 120 degree lenses in a few scenes so, they do not need to be smileboxed.

Roland Lataille
Cinerama web site:
http://cineramahistory.com

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#55
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5/2/08 at 10:33am
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by GerardoHP
When Cinerama movies aren't smileboxed, they suffer from great distortions on the horizontal plane, where lines are broken in 2 parts along the screen joints. Smilebox is the best way to watch Cinerama, better than letterbox and of course better than pan-and-scan.

I'm just a little bothered that they have apparently erased the lines, which I thought were sometimes obtrusive but very cool.

It looks like that's been addressed. Look closely at the before/after screenshots. It seems the angles of the panels have been horizontally corrected.

And they haven't erased the lines, but aligned the panes without any visible join lines.
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#56
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5/2/08 at 10:42am
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P
Thank you Simon! Now I don't have to make my own screencap. This was the silly-looking curvature I was referring to in my first post, ranting about smilebox. But if the smilebox curvature is the subtle version shown in PaulP's link then I am all for it.

I could be wrong but that "the silly-looking curvature" that you refer to is what we will probalby get for the smilebox version of How The West Was Won. I have seen How The West Was Won at a Cinerama theatre and that is pretty much what it looks like. Plus, I think the top people at Warner Brothers probably like the idea that it fills more of the screen.

Roland Lataille
Cinerama web site:
http://cineramahistory.com

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#57
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5/2/08 at 10:52am
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulP
It looks like that's been addressed. Look closely at the before/after screenshots. It seems the angles of the panels have been horizontally corrected.

And they haven't erased the lines, but aligned the panes without any visible join lines.

The CinemaScope "before" frame has been stretched to the size of the "after" Cinerama one below it. I have partially corrected it on my web site - htwwwdvd

Roland Lataille
Cinerama web site:
http://cineramahistory.com

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#58
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5/2/08 at 2:22pm
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandL
The screens for 3-strip Cinerama should have a 146 degree curve. For 70mm Todd-AO they would be 120 degree. But films like Oklahoma only used 120 degree lenses in a few scenes so, they do not need to be smileboxed.
No Todd AO film used the 120 degree bug eye lens all the way thru but only for certain sequences but that did not prevent the format's use of a curved screen in their installations. I'm not sure of the depth of the curvature at the Rivoli in NY but but the time Todd AO opened in Lodon in April 1958, it had been reduced to 5 feet.
I think the first few Todd AO features would benefit greatly from a not to severe Smile box treatment.Especially as we badly need a proper version of Oklahoma!
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#59
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5/2/08 at 3:34pm
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by GerardoHP
When Cinerama movies aren't smileboxed, they suffer from great distortions on the horizontal plane, where lines are broken in 2 parts along the screen joints. Smilebox is the best way to watch Cinerama, better than letterbox and of course better than pan-and-scan.

I'm just a little bothered that they have apparently erased the lines, which I thought were sometimes obtrusive but very cool.

And unfortunately anyone who does not purchase the BluRay disc, will not experience this.
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#60
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5/3/08 at 5:34am
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Re: How The West Was Won, Errol Flynn, Warner Westerns - 26/08/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcoBiscotti
And unfortunately anyone who does not purchase the BluRay disc, will not experience this.

Check out the frame from Search For Paradise on the bottom of this page - The Cinerama Adventure - "Smilebox" Process

Roland Lataille
Cinerama web site:
http://cineramahistory.com

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