"Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

So you actually watched the film with your laptop next to you, stopping the film every once in a while to comment about DNR and EE over the message boards?

I mean seriously, I would think that the "film", "story" and "actors" are still the main thing here, EVEN if the transfer has minor "issues". You probably ruined that from yourself over this silly thread..

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Even if, for a moment, we forget all about the enjoyment of watching a whole movie, we still shouldn't think we can prove anything about the moving picture by copying a screen capture someone made.

I'm not referring here to the fact that the screencap may have been chosen to show the absolutely worst (or best) example of a frame containing what the poster wanted to argue. Nor to a possible malafide use of photoshop techniques, or even "innocent" reproduction errors.

Screencaps PROVE close to nothing about what you see when watching the running movie. But on the other hand, they're almost the only way to explain on a non-moving medium what you saw.

Of course they need to be used very carefully, and preferably by people who, like Michel, know "how stills relate to the film in motion" indeed.

One of my biggest irritation in this respect on the internet is people who didn't see the movie at all and post opinions based on such screencaps of others (that were accompanying an article about the movie as seen by the author) and apparently think they have a 'proof' in hand. ("Here, see?")

The other irritation I have in this respect is separated screencaps: those that are published anywhere, or repeated somewhere (even if it's done by the original author) without the original text they were meant to clarify.

IMO, screencaps only carry any value when accompanied by the original article. Because the value lies in the description of the original observation, not in the stills themselves.


Cees

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Good post Cees.


Yes, one or two screencaps (I mean 1 frame of the 24 frames, where 24 frames is 1 second..) is hardly the "smoking gun" that should suddenly ruin the film. I personally want to see the film (and no, I don´t post in the forums during that.. ) through. If I have to "freeze frame" the film to "see" some problem etc, it´s probably not a "problem" for me. Or it´s a "minor problem".


True, true. It has both sides for sure..


Now we´re talking. We´ve now screencaps circulating from the various sources and many of them doesn´t have the original link/source included. They´re living their "own life" now. E.g. DVDbeaver didn´t post some of those screencaps to "show DNR or EE", I believe..

But like I said in some other thread, we´ll see these "I saw one screencap of this movie - it has DNR/EE/etc, no buy"-threads in the future, even when the person posting them haven´t see the disc him/herself.. IMO; It doesn´t work like that.

Give me the valid sources/links/knowledge/info (RAH, etc) WITH those screencaps and then we talk. If that´s not going to happen, forgettaboutit. One screencap means nothing alone. We need some proper "info" behind that (like it happened with "Patton", IMO)."This image is rather clean with no grain - it *must* have DNR"-type of threads is not the way to go, IMO. Too much speculation (since we all know, that the amount of grain varies quite a lot within the films - due the film stock, cinematography, style, post-production, restoration, etc).

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

DVDFILE.com

"I DO like Connely's singing voice on the DC instead of the dubbed over version in the TC. The other girl might be more of a pro singer but it always seemed phony. The voice didn't match Connely. This is better IMHO."



I didnt even notice this difference. Thanks for mentioning that.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

deleted.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

I missed the point here...? Yes, I´ll be order both "Dark City" and "Starship Troopers" at some point. Both (I guess the jury is still out on ST) seems tohave minor "issues", but I can live with them. I´m against DNR, EE, etc, but based on this thread alone, I probably survive through "Dark City"..

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Audio out of sync is easily 100 times more noticeable then a bit of DNR.

Really good post Cees. Screen caps for me are always better to show framing issues pertaining to aspect ratio then the actual transfer quality. Seems like every capture program out there does something to the still. And the motion really is big factor. the Charlie Chaplin MK3 (Might have the wrong name, sorry) sets that came out a few years had major issues where the NTSC discs were made from PAL transfers. Some thing that showed on a still like Charlies watch string vanishing in "THE GREAT DICTATOR" played fine when watching the movie as your eye is tricked and fills in the blanks. Film medium on the whole is a bit of bag of tricks, the technology itself is all about fooling the eye. Of course, other things were still terrible.

I think this DC disc sounds a bit like that, where stilled you see some horrible errors, yet played, it's mostly alright. Some of the scenes in the Chaplin DVDs where horrendous smears (the famous Globe dance in "The Great Dictator where the panneled wall would blur in the pans). Watching it though, I was simply totally charmed by the movie. So yeah, I'd love a more perfect version, but I'm not losing sleep over what I got.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Oops, my mistake.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Says who? I'll repeat the quote:

"the TrueHD track seems to be a few frames out of sync with the picture. It's close enough to be unnoticeable for most of the movie, and isn't ever severe enough to be concerned about".

So an audio issue in a "few frames" is a big deal, but if someone else is bother by DNR in some scenes, he's "too picky"?

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Says me. Joe average has no idea what anyones talking about when you say EDGE ENHANCEMENT or DNR, you have to show them that it's wrong. Children can realize if the audios out. If it's a little bit, then yeah, you can get by, but it's still more noticeable.

As far as you being picky, I never said that. Your peeve is obviously any kind of edge enhancement or digital thing happening to the film. That's okay. I'm more of an audio synch guy. That's okay too.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

I'm not talking about Joe Average, I'm talking about the people who have been shown EE and DNR and proclaim it no big deal, but when a "few frames" of audio are said to be out of sync, suddenly it's an issue.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Calm down. The people here who have seen the disc said there's a bit of EE and such and that it's not that noticeable, that the movie draws you in and it all works. sounds like the audio out of synch on SS is very similar, more noticible in places then others, but not all through it and ruining the film.

Frankly, your taking this all to personally. It seems more like a case of you trumpeting the cause, and now that people are saying that it's not all that bad, your egos hurt and you can't let it go.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Nothing personal at all. I'm just noting inconsistencies from people who have told others they're making too big a deal over picture quality, but when "minor" audio issues are raised, suddenly it's they who are demanding "perfection".

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Sorry, my mistake. Just a case of things like


Where no one is actually demanding perfection with the audio, it's you over reacting that makes it seem like your taking it personally. It's okay if you are.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

I think you missed where I put "perfection" in quotes.

What I'd like is for those worked up about audio issues to allow that concern to finally make them realize that concerns about picture quality DO have legitimacy, and not be quite so dismissive of them.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

No ones being dismissive of it. Your just choosing to throw your toys over it is all. These things, picture and audio quality aren't so black and white. They come in degrees, and those are different per disc, and even more varied depending on the equipment you watch them on. Just because you find it totally unacceptable doesn't make you right when the majority doesn't have a serious problem with it.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Really? Check out post #10 in this thread:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...-overoard.html

Not to mention the thread title itself. I see contradictions in the Speed Racer thread. And I don't need gratuitous comments about "throwing toys".

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Not true, Russell, but I'm hoping you'll take my word for it and not require that anyone provide you with chapter and verse (or, in this case, quotes and links). That could easily be provided (and I see Robert's already working on it), but it would just inflame the situation.

It would be really great if we could all agree to be tolerant of others' concerns about quality, even if we don't share those particular concerns. Obviously, this doesn't extend to approving every mode of expressing such concerns.

M.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Sigh....

From that thread:


Dude said the synch issue wasn't a problem when he watched it. See? It's varies by person. How was it when you watched it Roger? Oh right... you didn't see it....

no one says they WANT DNR, EE, or audio problems. We all want perfect discs. Just because some of it falls in the good enough category for some of us, it doesn't mean we're ruining it for you.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Sorry Micheal, I don't see people as saying "good enough" as being dismissive, they just are more accepting. When Robert Harris comments that there's room for improvement, but it's still more then enjoyable, I don't think he's being dismissive of the quality of the discs, and frankly, I hold his opinion higher then pretty near anyone on here. People like to jump on things when it's speculated, and when the truth comes out (in this case, there's some EE, but it's tolerable), some people don't want to give up the fight. See "The Little Rascals" thread in the SD section where a rumor of DVD-5's being used prompted a panic of threats of pre-order cancellations for a similiar trend.

and I'll attempt to politely bow out now, I have the SD on pre-order.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Exactly my thoughts.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

I'm not talking about someone saying "good enough". I'm talking about someone who hasn't seen a particular disc accusing someone who has and is noting problems with it of "nit picking".

This has happened, and recently. I don't want to further derail the thread with specifics. If you don't want to take my word, PM me.

M.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

While I don't hold it quite as high as Ebert or many others do, I've always enjoyed Dark City. On my 42" plasma I could definately notice the EE, and DNR seemed to come and go in intensity. I'm disappointed, but but not terribly upset. This is an early Blu transfer and I'm okay with it for now. The audio and extras are excellent

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

I am of the mind the Starship Troopers issue may be an HDMI issue, not the disc. I base this on the fact some say its not an issue, or they didnt notice it...cause i would if it existed. I have this disc on order, so i cant say one way or another. Its just when i think of out of synch audio, HDMI is the first thing that comes to mind.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

well, i said that.

i think it is a pick your battles sitiuation.
the lip sync on Troopers was such a minor thing that it isn't important enough to even bring up.
thats why i didn't mention it until someone else did.


plus i don't know why hdmi would factor in to a sync situation.
i use a ps3 and a denon 3808.
haven't had any sync issues with anything else.

i still say it's part of the track or is a dubbing issue/
or it could be a disc error but only happens a couple of times.

i guess it could compare to the framing prolem on the Pirates blu-ray.
that did get fixed so who knows.

i doubt there will be a "fix" made for dark city.
what can one do?
don't buy the disc and send a letter to let them know why
you won't buy it.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Actually, no. The computer is in the other room. Why do you care how I watch my discs?
I stopped it and posted three times, once after the "infamous" cop hat scene which to me looked exactly like the PNG screen capture with VERY noticeable EE and once later to get a snack and lastly because I had to walk the dog. I've also seen the film dozens of time before including in the theater. And I have a small child so I almost never get through any film in one sitting nowadays as it is.
I work all day and come home and have to watch my kid for half the night.


But to some the EE isn't just a minor issue. It's prevalent in most scenes and to some including me, distracting. When you have a 92" screen, the halos around certain things look pretty big. Not to mention the really odd DNR that happens on the Connelly closeups in a few scenes. To me it looks very processed, digital and even "video-like". Now to some, this is fine. Cool. You all are entitled to your view, but why the constant urge to change the minds of the people who do have some issues? Everyone's entitled to their opinion. The bottom line is simply this "Could Dark City have looked Better? Should it have looked better?" Yes. If someone thinks "no, this is as good as it could have and should have looked even with EE and DNR" then I don't know what to say.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Yes, and with 10 pages, I believe this is the only "fact" that we have in this thread.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Why the sarcasm...? First the crack about watching the movie, "with my laptop next to me" then this?




Fact: There is EE on the BD.
Fact: The image would have looked more natural and film-like without it.
Fact: EE does bother some people.

Whether you can't see it or it doesn't bother you doesn't change this.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

Well said Dave. This is the Home Theater Forum, where people are going to nitpick transfer issues. If some aren't bothered by these issue then ok. But why some people come in here to criticise the "nit-pickers" I'll never understand.

We want the absolute best quality we can possibly get out of the technology. That means being as faithful to the original film elements as can possibly be achieved. Isn't that what HTF is all about???

There are some less-than perfect transfers that I can live with (like Dark City which I have seen) but I would never start posting about how people are being overly nitpicky. If they want to be nitpicky and make themselves heard, hey great. Go to it. At best it ends up benefiting everyone. At worst, well, things stay the same. And if you are happy with the same, then please shut the fuck up and let people who want better quality fight for it in peace.

Re: "Dark City: Director's Cut" coming to Blu-ray on July 29

But is it actually "out of sync"? If it´s "100 times more noticeable", why we have one review stating that (over 10 or something like that) and 1 reporting in the forums (the same reviewer)? I find this confusing to say at least.

It´s a bit scary, that we don´t need more info about these issues. One or two posts in the message board will do.. The audio is just "out of sync", simple as that..