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Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

#1
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4/24/08 at 1:27pm
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I have a debate going on with some folks and need some input as this one is tearing my mind.

The two fictional characters, Batman and James Bond are iconic in status. Of the two which one you think is more iconic and why? I am a fan of both but I feel Batman has more iconic status with a broader fan-base and mass appeal.
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#2
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4/24/08 at 4:08pm
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

I say Bond. He has greater international appeal and he appeals to women more than Batman.
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#3
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4/24/08 at 4:12pm
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

I'd say Batman just because he wears a costume. Not that Bond's tux isn't iconic too but you can see people wearing a tuxedo lots of places and you hardly ever see anyone wearing a Batsuit anymore.
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#4
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4/24/08 at 4:55pm
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

My initial impulse was to say Bond. After a few minutes thought though, I think I'd say Batman. The reason being is that Batman was featured in comics, TV series and movies. So I would say that over time Batman has had much more exposure in different media than Bond has.
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#5
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4/24/08 at 5:13pm
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

I'd go with Batman for the same reason Travis noted. Batman is instantly recognizable, but a guy in a tux can be anyone. Could even be Bruce Wayne!
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#6
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4/24/08 at 5:39pm
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

The only comic book character that I'd label as iconic is Superman. In order to be worthy of that label I'd say that one must be the best of the best. James Bond is the world's best known secret agent, so that makes him more of an icon than a second tier superhero.
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#7
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4/24/08 at 6:17pm
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Hmmm...interesting question. I would say Batman, because you might not know Bond when you see him. He has to have the gun and the pose. But see a guy in the batsuit, even Adam West, and you got Batman.
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#8
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4/24/08 at 7:11pm
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Batman......a second tier superhero?!!! I think not!

Anyway, getting back to this subject.....Batman is much more iconic than Bond. The character was around a lot longer and no one could possibly mistake that costume as being anyone else.
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#9
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4/24/08 at 7:12pm
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Two questions have to be asked in order to determine iconic status.

1) Name a fictional Super Spy.

2) Name a fictional Superhero.

I would guess that at least 7 out of 10 people would answer "James Bond" and "Superman" if you asked average people those two questions. Therefore, I believe that James Bond is actually more iconic than Batman.

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#10
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4/24/08 at 8:56pm
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

For me, "iconic" must involve some sort of image or symbol that is recognizable. So in that vein, I agree with the others who have said that imagery-wise, Bond is just a handsome guy in a tuxedo, whereas there is absolutely no mistaking Batman. So in that sense, even though Superman may be the most famous if all superheroes, Batman is by far the most iconic. Even the most basic silhouette of Batman immediately tells the viewer exactly who he is looking at.

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#11
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4/24/08 at 9:56pm
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Define "iconic"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacinto
For me, "iconic" must involve some sort of image or symbol that is recognizable. So in that vein, I agree with the others who have said that imagery-wise, Bond is just a handsome guy in a tuxedo, whereas there is absolutely no mistaking Batman. So in that sense, even though Superman may be the most famous if all superheroes, Batman is by far the most iconic. Even the most basic silhouette of Batman immediately tells the viewer exactly who he is looking at.

I'd have to agree. Much as I'm a fan of both, Batman is just more 'obvious', if that's the word for it. Even if, by Edwin's suggestion, Bond is almost always the first choice for "name a superspy" and Batman is just one of several choices for "name a superhero".

I guess the weird costume is what makes him "iconic". And the rest of the bat-themed paraphenalia, of course.
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#12
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4/25/08 at 12:16am
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

An icon (from Greek εἰκών, eikōn, "image") is an image, picture, or representation; it is a sign or likeness that stands for an object by signifying or representing it, or by analogy, as in semiotics; by extension, icon is also used, particularly in modern culture, in the general sense of symbol — i.e. a name, face, picture, edifice or even a person readily recognized as having some well-known significance or embodying certain qualities. one thing, and image or depiction, that represents something else of greater significance through literal or figurative meaning, usually associated with religious, cultural, political, and economic standing.

With this, Batman wins hands down.

" I think it's time we go to plan B". "What's plan B?" "That's the one where we don't do something stupid".

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#13
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4/25/08 at 12:56am
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

I don't see how you can definitively say that "Batman wins hands down". For most people Batman would not be the first person to come to mind if they were asked to identify a Superhero.

To me, the definition of iconic is a name or image that immediately identifies the subject. The subject is Superheroes. If asked, the first Superhero that comes to mind for most people would be Superman. That is what I would consider iconic. The image of Superman is indelibly linked to genre of Superheroes in people's minds. The exact same thing applies to the genre of spies. People immediately think of James Bond.

It goes even further than that. The idea of a "Superman" or a "James Bond" crops up in wider society. If someone does a feat strength or derring do invariably a lot of references will be made to Superman. As in "that guy was like Superman" or some other such nonsense. If someone pulls some outrageous stunt connected with spies or sometimes even criminal activity, a lot people might say that it was "right out of James Bond". To me that is iconic.

The only way Batman would win is if the cue was strictly visual. Very few people would ever equate Batman with anything outside of the visual, except maybe climbing a building. And he probably wouldn't even win there, since most people would identify that stunt as "pulling a Spiderman".

Edit: Hell, some people in Britain would probably think you had gone starkers if you asked whether The Batman was iconic. They would probably ask you what's iconic about a guy who plays a cricket.

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#14
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4/25/08 at 2:00am
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Edwin, I agree completely that Superman is more iconic than Batman. However, the question is between Batman and James Bond who is more iconic? Let's look at this from another angle. Which is more known, the superhero universe or the spy universe? If I go around the world and ask people who Wolverine is alot would say X-Men. Now, if I go around and ask them who Spider-man, Hulk, Fantastic Four are I'm sure many would have no problem identifing them to some extent and those, as someone put it, are the "second tier heroes." Now, using that same example, let's say I go around and ask people who Ethan Hunt is? Perhaps Napoleon Solo, no? I know, La Femme Nikita? How bout Jim Phelps or Flint? Emma Peel (my personal favorite) or Steed? Matt Helm? Anyone? Anyone at all? Well, you get the idea. The funny thing is, Batman is more recognized as the second most popular superhero in that genre, than James Bond is as the first and foremost spy of that genre.

" I think it's time we go to plan B". "What's plan B?" "That's the one where we don't do something stupid".

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#15
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4/25/08 at 8:23am
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Quote:
An icon (from Greek εἰκών, eikōn, "image") is an image, picture, or representation; it is a sign or likeness that stands for an object by signifying or representing it, or by analogy, as in semiotics;
Ok, so if I show people this:

vs.

this:


It doesn't seem obvious that one "icon" is more recognizable than the other, especially if one shows the two in Europe as well as the U.S. Neither does simply saying the name "Batman" vs. "James Bond".
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#16
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4/25/08 at 10:03am
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Batman, because he could beat Bond in a fight.

Nuff said.
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#17
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4/25/08 at 10:18am
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Quote:
[Batman, because he could beat Bond in a fight.
But Bond would get the girl, which would be more fun.
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#18
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4/25/08 at 10:19am
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
But Bond would get the girl, which would be more fun.

you must of ever been married, otherwise you'd know that getting the girl isn't necessarily winning!

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#19
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4/25/08 at 10:23am
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell G
you must of ever been married, otherwise you'd know that getting the girl isn't necessarily winning!
I said Bond "gets" the girl, not Bond "marries" the girl.
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#20
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4/25/08 at 11:29am
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
I said Bond "gets" the girl, not Bond "marries" the girl.
As I recall Bruce Wayne hasn't done too bad for himself in that regard.

" I think it's time we go to plan B". "What's plan B?" "That's the one where we don't do something stupid".

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#21
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4/25/08 at 12:07pm
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Quote:
As I recall Bruce Wayne hasn't done too bad for himself in that regard.
Bond has a much better scorecard. It's no contest.
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#22
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4/25/08 at 5:14pm
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Batman would beat Bond in a fight?
Well even though Batman is a super hero he has no super powers and relies on gadgets as Bond does.

I'd say it is a wash at best physically.

Mentally, well they are both way above average detectives. I'd say that is a wash as well.

Longevity, Batman has been around much longer and that, to me, is the only way that they differ.

They are both very iconic in their own ways, each has a broad niche that they have adequately filled.

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#23
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4/25/08 at 5:24pm
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
Two questions have to be asked in order to determine iconic status.

1) Name a fictional Super Spy.

2) Name a fictional Superhero.

I would guess that at least 7 out of 10 people would answer "James Bond" and "Superman" if you asked average people those two questions. Therefore, I believe that James Bond is actually more iconic than Batman.
I agree.
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#24
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4/25/08 at 7:31pm
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Batman

Batman has been an icon my whole life, Bond is the subject of a few wonderful books that I started reading in 1960.

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#25
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4/25/08 at 11:02pm
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Ya' know ... Initially I was just going to say Batman, simply due to the fact that he has the costume and has been around a little longer.

But after thinking about it, it's pretty much a wash:

* Both are "Super Heroes" but neither has Super Powers.

* Both really have dual identities; it's just that Bond wears his mask "on the inside". He always introduces himself as "Bond ... James Bond" even though he's assuming the identity of an art dealer or a biologist or any number of the identities that fit the case he's currently working on.

* Bond is "Licensed to Kill" while Batman is a vigilante who doesn't need permission to kill.

* Both depend on extraordinary gadgets (and cool modes of transportation) plus their powers of deduction in order to "survive and conquer" over the villain of the hour.

* Both even have an occasional sidekick: Batman has Robin, while James Bond depends on CIA operative Felix Leiter.

* Batman was first introduced in the pages of a comic in 1939. James Bond was first introduced in the pages of a novel in 1952.

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#26
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4/26/08 at 12:23am
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Okay try this, when's the last time anyone here walked into a store and saw James Bond comics, coloring books, action figures, party favors and birthday related supplies, animated shows dvds, book bags, notebooks, etc. tee shirts, under wear( saw a pair at Wal-Mart the other night with the bat symbol all over them), Etc. Etc. You don't. That is why I feel Batman is far more iconic than James Bond. The retail market proves it. If James Bond had equal or more appeal, there would be James Bond shit everywhere and there's not. You will see things when a movie hits but that's it. While the Batman stuff is always around.

" I think it's time we go to plan B". "What's plan B?" "That's the one where we don't do something stupid".

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#27
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4/26/08 at 1:22am
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
Bond has a much better scorecard. It's no contest.
I'll give ya that. Some damn fine women, to be sure.

" I think it's time we go to plan B". "What's plan B?" "That's the one where we don't do something stupid".

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#28
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4/26/08 at 2:19am
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Bolus
* Bond is "Licensed to Kill" while Batman is a vigilante who doesn't need permission to kill.

Just to nitpick: Batman doesn't kill.
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#29
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4/26/08 at 3:09am
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by troy evans
Okay try this, when's the last time anyone here walked into a store and saw James Bond comics, coloring books, action figures, party favors and birthday related supplies, animated shows dvds, book bags, notebooks, etc. tee shirts, under wear( saw a pair at Wal-Mart the other night with the bat symbol all over them), Etc. Etc. You don't. That is why I feel Batman is far more iconic than James Bond. The retail market proves it. If James Bond had equal or more appeal, there would be James Bond shit everywhere and there's not. You will see things when a movie hits but that's it. While the Batman stuff is always around.

All that stuff is just a function of marketing. Also, the list you provided shows that Batman, as character, is being primarily marketed as children's fare. James Bond, on the other hand, is a character that is aimed at an adult audience. It stands to reason that there would not be a mass of licensed items with "James Bond" stamped all over.

Also, I do not believe that mass market appeal or popularity is any measurement of a characters level of iconic status. To me, the only thing that determines iconic status is the level of linkage between a character and a given subject in the minds of the general public. In other words, who immediately, with little required thought, comes to mind when a given subject is raised.

For example, let's ask people to name a famous scientist. If 7 of 10 people identify Albert Einstein over Stephen Hawking then, in the mind of the general population, Einstein is more iconic of the scientific profession than Hawking is. Yet, Einstein's face and name is not plastered over all kinds of merchandise. He has no widespread mass market appeal, however, his name and likeness is synonymous with the scientific profession.

The same goes for Batman and James Bond. Whose name comes immediately to mind when specific questions are asked? That determines iconic status. Not whether your name or symbol is on a pair of underpants or on a coloring book.

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#30
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4/26/08 at 7:47am
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Re: Batman or James Bond - Who is more iconic?

But Edwin, it's not just about who is the most famous that makes someone the most iconic. If I asked people to name one famous movie director, I'm guessing Steven Spielberg would be mentioned more times than anyone else. But there's no way in hell I would buy that he's the most iconic director just because he's currently synonymous with directing films. To me, there is only one director who has risen above "famous" to "iconic", and that is Alfred Hitchcock. It's not just about fame or quality of work, icon status must include instant visual recognition. When a few strokes of a pen can create a profile that people associate with you (like Hitch), you are an icon. And like it or not, much of that status is created through marketing, whether or not that includes the use of toys or undergarments.

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