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HD programming

#1
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4/3/08 at 7:17pm
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Ok HD buffs got a question for ya about HD Programming.

I was watching a show tonight on CBS and when the show started it said it was being broadcast in HD. So if I am watching this show on my 1080i 50" widescreen and I do NOT have an HD DVR box or HD programming, then I am still watching the show at 480p, correct?

Second question, if I get an HD DVR box and sign up for HD programming then I will be able to watch that show in HD and will it be on the same channel?

Third question, when the networks shoot these shows, they are using HD equipment and transmitting the shows to me in HD signal but since I do NOT have an HD DVR or HD programming then my current DVR box is having to convert that signal to an SD 480p signal, correct?

Thank you,

Chris
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#2
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4/3/08 at 7:27pm
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Re: HD programming

no, you can pick up the hd signal over the air for free. All you need to do is get an HD antenna. They come in smaller indoor versions, as wells as larger more powerful outdoor versions. price range $30-$80 for one that will work for you.
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#3
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4/3/08 at 9:48pm
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Re: HD programming

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnerc
I was watching a show tonight on CBS and when the show started it said it was being broadcast in HD. So if I am watching this show on my 1080i 50" widescreen and I do NOT have an HD DVR box or HD programming, then I am still watching the show at 480p, correct?

If you have a standard cable box, the signal coming in is 480i. Your set probably deinterlaces the signal and possibly scales it. The exact details depend on what sort of TV it is and its "native resolution".

Quote:
Second question, if I get an HD DVR box and sign up for HD programming then I will be able to watch that show in HD and will it be on the same channel?
You'll be able to watch the show in HD, but it will be on a different channel. Until February of next year, broadcasters are transmitting both the analog old non-HD signal on one channel, digital (HD or not) on another. The cable company typically maps it to a virtual channel # on the box. E.g. around here CBS analog is on ch 5, the HD signal is on 705.

Quote:
Third question, when the networks shoot these shows, they are using HD equipment and transmitting the shows to me in HD signal but since I do NOT have an HD DVR or HD programming then my current DVR box is having to convert that signal to an SD 480p signal, correct?
No, your current DVR box is recording from either analog 480i signal that the cable company is retransmitting, or a digital simulcast copy of that analog 480i signal. The HD signal is on an entirely different channel, which your non-HD DVR box can't handle.
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#4
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4/4/08 at 4:02pm
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Re: HD programming

Ok, I am starting to understand.

I currently had Dish Network so I am not able to use an antenna.

Also when watching the news on the local channel they are broadcasting in HD but what you are saying is there is another channel that the news is truly in HD. What is kinda confusing is why do they transmit the HD signal on another channel?

Chris
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#5
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4/4/08 at 4:35pm
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Re: HD programming

Why two channels? One is the old analog channel that's been operating for however many decades. The other is the digital channel that's only been transmitting for maybe 9-10 years or so depending on your area. They can't transmit on the same channel because the signals would interfere with one another. But OTA signals usually contain so-called "PSIP" data, so that digital tuners will often display say the old analog channel as "5", with the new digital channel as "5.1", even though the digital channel is actually on physical channel "29" or whatever. 29 corresponds to real physical channel frequency, "5.1" is the virtual channel #, they came up with this scheme so people didn't have to learn all new channel #s. For cable & satellite, they can move either channel to whatever arbitrary channel #, but they usually try to come up with an easy scheme for people to remember. Like in my area Comcast, the old channel is 5, HD is 705, old channel 2, HD is 702, etc., they put all the HD channels in the 700 block.

They had to keep the old analog channel around because there are some millions of people with old equipment that can't tune the digital channel & they don't want to lose those viewers during this transition from analog to digital broadcasting. 9-10 years ago digital TVs/receivers are really expensive, can't expect everyone to go out & buy new stuff right away.

Early next year though, the analog channel goes away (because the government wants to sell the use of those frequencies for other purposes, like wi-fi communication). Some of the TV stations will move their digital channel back to the old analog frequency & give up their digital frequency instead.

Satellite will probably downconvert the digital channel for older receivers that can't get the current HD channel.
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#6
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4/5/08 at 6:26am
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Re: HD programming

I have Dish Network and I watch NBC on channel 2 and are you saying currently that channel is the analog channel? So if I order HD from Dish Network then I would be watching NBC on a different channel?

Chris
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#7
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4/5/08 at 8:55am
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Re: HD programming

I’m pretty sure that your Dish receiver will have an input for an external antenna.

Does your TV have a HD tuner? If so you can probably watch local HD by adding an antenna. However you need to verify that you can reliably receive your area’s HD stations.

Regardless contact Dish for HD possibilities: their HD packages will include a lot more HD (HBO, Discovery, etc.) than your local channels. For this you will need a new receiver from Dish. They run deals from time to time.

Mentioning channel 2 is pretty meaningless without knowing your location.
¡Time is not my master!
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#8
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4/5/08 at 9:01am
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Re: HD programming

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnerc
I have Dish Network and I watch NBC on channel 2 and are you saying currently that channel is the analog channel?

If you are getting that channel through satellite, not over-the-air, it's a digitized version of the analog broadcast, not the HD broadcast. Keep in mind that if it's a satellite channel, "channel 2" is really something like "dish channel 8372", the satellite receiver just maps that 4 digit channel to a virtual channel
# matching your local over-the-air channel so it's easier to remember. The HD channel number would be on something like "dish channel 6391", but again the receiver would map it to channel 2, see below. (I am using Houston, TX, as an example, as I have no idea where you actually are.)

Quote:
So if I order HD from Dish Network then I would be watching NBC on a different channel?

If you select the HD channel, yes. But the way the current HD Dish receivers work, it will still be labeled "channel 2". By default you will now see two "channel 2"s in your guide, one is the HD, the other is the SD. There are options in the setup menu to change it to display only the HD channel. I think if you select "2", it will default to the new HD channel now. If you channel down (up?) from there you select the old channel 2, the one you are using now.

Different providers have different mapping schemes, above only applies to Dish network. In your case you'd be entering the same virtual channel #, but the receiver would be tuning to a different actual channel. With other providers like Comcast, DirecTV, you enter the channel differently also.
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#9
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4/5/08 at 3:37pm
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Re: HD programming

Good guess Stephen, I am in Houston.

Chris
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#10
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4/6/08 at 9:03am
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Re: HD programming

According to Dish's web site, with an HD receiver you will get CBS HD via satellite. I think all locals are carried except NBC. Dish is notorious for not carrying channels that ask for money to be carried. But with an HD receiver and the proper antenna, it will be integrated into your guide just like the satellite channels.

On my DirecTV DVR, I get my locals via dish and antenna. Press channel 3 and I go to the satellite HD version. Go up one and I'm on the antenna version. Up again and I get the SD satellite version. Also with the antenna I get sub-channels. Like 3.2 which is local news 24x7. Or 5.2 which is local weather 24x7.

-Robert
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#11
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4/6/08 at 10:18am
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Re: HD programming

Ok, I did remember another question.

This is about PPV or HBO type movies.

Currently all big screen movies are shot in wide screen in 5.1, but when I want to watch one of those movies I am watching it in SD, why is that?

I mean I watched "Blades of Glory' last night and it was in SD, is it because since my current DVR is not HD, then it converted it to SD or did Dish Network not deliver it in HD?

Thank you,

Chris
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#12
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4/6/08 at 12:50pm
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Re: HD programming

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnerc
Currently all big screen movies are shot in wide screen in 5.1, but when I want to watch one of those movies I am watching it in SD, why is that?

I mean I watched "Blades of Glory' last night and it was in SD, is it because since my current DVR is not HD, then it converted it to SD or did Dish Network not deliver it in HD?

It's all the same answer. You are tuning to one of the SD channels. The non-HD receivers can't tune to the different HD channels.

An HD receiver can tune to the HD channels and downconvert for older TVs & recording devices. But your older receiver is only tuning to the SD channels.
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#13
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4/7/08 at 6:06am
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Re: HD programming

Chris,

Your non-HD box cannot receive any HD channels. None. It doesn't even know the HD channels exist because it cannot tune those channels. So if it cannot receive it, it cannot convert it. So, everything you are viewing with a non-HD box is SD. It is SD at the source, SD at the satellite box/DVR and SD at your TV.

So, until you get a tuner/DVR that is capable of receiving HD, you will always be watching an SD source broadcast on an SD channel. Although these SD channels may be broadcasting the same content as their HD versions, these SD channels are broadcast in the SD frequency band and are completely seperate from any HD broadcasts that may be taking place on the HD frequencies.
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#14
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4/7/08 at 6:52am
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Re: HD programming

People are still getting HD and Digital mixed up. This is going to be a joke come next year.

Get In My Belly.

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#15
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4/7/08 at 9:48am
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Re: HD programming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gatie
Although these SD channels may be broadcasting the same content as their HD versions, these SD channels are broadcast in the SD frequency band and are completely seperate from any HD broadcasts that may be taking place on the HD frequencies.

??? There aren't separate "SD frequency bands" and "HD frequencies". The SD channels & HD channels are separate, but there aren't different portions of spectrum reserved for SD or HD. It's just a matter of avoiding conflict with what was in use before, what was assigned to a broadcaster. For OTA, analog can be any of the VHF or UHF channels, and so can digital. In the case of digital broadcasting you can have SD digital & HD digital channels multicasting right on the same frequency!

For satellite it's a matter of the satellite company picking a bird + transponder that has sufficient free bandwidth, again can multiplex SD + HD.
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#16
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4/7/08 at 10:40am
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Re: HD programming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Tu
??? There aren't separate "SD frequency bands" and "HD frequencies". The SD channels & HD channels are separate, but there aren't different portions of spectrum reserved for SD or HD. It's just a matter of avoiding conflict with what was in use before, what was assigned to a broadcaster. For OTA, analog can be any of the VHF or UHF channels, and so can digital. In the case of digital broadcasting you can have SD digital & HD digital channels multicasting right on the same frequency!

For satellite it's a matter of the satellite company picking a bird + transponder that has sufficient free bandwidth, again can multiplex SD + HD.

I was trying to keep it simple. I didn't think going into adjacent channel slots and VHF/UHF spectra assigned by geographic area was needed in a thread where the OP thought his SD only box was converting HD to SD. Sorry if you felt I was misleading anyone.
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#17
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4/9/08 at 5:10pm
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Re: HD programming

Ok, how about this.

IF I a watching an HD show on an HD channel with my new HDDVR with my HD programming and a commercial comes on that was not shot in HD, does the DVR or some other source upconvert the signal to HD? So in reality it is not really an HD program it is a modified version?

Chris
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#18
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4/9/08 at 6:40pm
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Re: HD programming

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnerc
Ok, how about this.

IF I a watching an HD show on an HD channel with my new HDDVR with my HD programming and a commercial comes on that was not shot in HD, does the DVR or some other source upconvert the signal to HD? So in reality it is not really an HD program it is a modified version?

Chris

The stuff that is not shot in HD will be upconverted at the broadcast end. Yes it is not really HD sourced, but it is upconverted to HD. Every signal coming over an HD channel to your HDDVR will be HD (at least on cable). That does not mean the original program was filmed in HD, it can be upconverted SD.
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#19
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4/10/08 at 6:16am
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Re: HD programming

I need to upgrade to a HD21 receiver and dish and HD programing. How can i get out of paying a lease to direct?

Get In My Belly.

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#20
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4/10/08 at 10:40am
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Re: HD programming

Quote:
Originally Posted by dany
I need to upgrade to a HD21 receiver and dish and HD programing. How can i get out of paying a lease to direct?
Buy it outright from D*. I think they charge about $1,000. And if it breaks, it's your $1,000 door stop.

-Robert
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#21
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4/10/08 at 2:50pm
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Re: HD programming

So what's the best way for me to go from my basic Directv to a HD21 and dish and HD programming?

Get In My Belly.

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#22
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4/11/08 at 11:22am
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Re: HD programming

The best and really only way is to lease the receiver from D*. I like that option much better than buying outright. If it breaks, it cost $19.95 for them to ship you another one.

And there is no such receiver as an HD-21. There's is an HR-21 which is a dual tuner HD DVR without ATSC tuners. If you want OTA digital, you will need to add on the ATSC tuner box that connects via the USB port. I know that sounds picky but with the receiver model names so close together sometimes, it can make a huge difference in the answer.

-Robert
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#23
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4/11/08 at 12:54pm
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Re: HD programming

Thanks. I guess i'll call Direct and get the ball rolling. HR21 HD DVR DirecT.V.

Get In My Belly.

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