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Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

#1
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2/22/08 at 7:55am
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Since HD DVD is now gone and VC-1 was often their choice of codec, does this change with Blu-ray?

I mean were there any "deals" between Microsoft and the HD DVD-companies, so that only "HD DVD companies" can use VC-1 or something like that?

I don´t want to start any "codec war/debate" here (so please don´t post any "VC-1 is da best ever codec boyeee!"-stuff.. ), just wondering that are we going to see less VC-1 and more MPEG-4 AVC with Blu-ray, or is it that e.g. Paramount and Warner will keep using VC-1 like "business as usual"..

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*US PS3 (1080p) - Xbox 360 Elite (HDMI) - Nintendo Wii (Euro) - Sony PSP-2000 - Nintendo DSi
*HD DVD Toshiba XE1 (1080p) - Sony Bravia KDL-40W2000 (1080p) - Yamaha RX-V1800 (HDMI 1.3)

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#2
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2/22/08 at 8:02am
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

Since VC-1 is supported on Bd, I fully expect those companies that have developed expertise with that codec will continue to employ it on future Bd releases. Why would they throw away that experience and 'start over' with AVC?

No company is going to throw away a tool set that works perfectly fine unless there are some overriding technical or financial circumstances that compel that choice.

- Walter.

Fidelity to the source should always be the goal for Blu-ray releases.

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#3
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2/22/08 at 8:22am
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

PCM and MPEG-2 on Single layer Bluray for the win!
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#4
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2/22/08 at 8:32am
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

I thought it was mainly Warner that stuck with VC-1 encodes?

Either way, I highly encoded VC-1 encoded disc taking advantage of a BD50 is going to look damn good.
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#5
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2/22/08 at 8:55am
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

This recent article covers some of what's being discussed here.
Quote:
What the Death of HD-DVD Means.
HD-DVD is dead, and with it dies Microsoft’s aspirations to inject its proprietary software in media development. This is also a big strike against VC-1; despite being written into the Blu-Ray standard along with the ISO’s H.264, most Blu-Ray developers are moving toward H.264, which not only allows them to master HD discs, but also deliver mobile and downloadable versions using the same codec for playback on devices such as the PSP and iPod.
Felix E. Martinez
www.applesandorangesband.com
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#6
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2/22/08 at 9:06am
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric F
I thought it was mainly Warner that stuck with VC-1 encodes?

Universal has used VC-1 probably in all of their releases. Now they got even more capacity for their future releases.

Rewind - DVDcompare/Site Administrator
*US PS3 (1080p) - Xbox 360 Elite (HDMI) - Nintendo Wii (Euro) - Sony PSP-2000 - Nintendo DSi
*HD DVD Toshiba XE1 (1080p) - Sony Bravia KDL-40W2000 (1080p) - Yamaha RX-V1800 (HDMI 1.3)

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#7
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2/22/08 at 9:25am
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?



The creator of this image really needs to read Edward Tufte
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#8
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2/22/08 at 10:03am
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
Universal has used VC-1 probably in all of their releases. Now they got even more capacity for their future releases.

I know of only one Universal title to use AVC and that was The Interpreter.

I would imagine that Warner would keep using VC-1. I don't know any reason why they should switch.

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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#9
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2/22/08 at 10:12am
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I know of only one Universal title to use AVC and that was The Interpreter.

I would imagine that Warner would keep using VC-1. I don't know any reason why they should switch.

Doug

Unless it's somehow part of their big deal w/ Sony/BDA? Also, if it's true that AVC makes it easier for them to provide scaled down content for PSP and iPod, then that's one more reason for them to go that way, no? No idea if they really care about the PSP and iPod of course....

_Man_

Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".

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#10
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2/22/08 at 10:15am
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong
Unless it's somehow part of their big deal w/ Sony/BDA? Also, if it's true that AVC makes it easier for them to provide scaled down content for PSP and iPod, then that's one more reason for them to go that way, no? No idea if they really care about the PSP and iPod of course....

_Man_


That is surely a cool idea, but I don't know why you couldn't do that with VC-1 also. After all its just a variation on Windows Media, and WMA/WMV are more widely used than MP4.

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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#11
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2/22/08 at 10:40am
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
That is surely a cool idea, but I don't know why you couldn't do that with VC-1 also. After all its just a variation on Windows Media, and WMA/WMV are more widely used than MP4.

In portable devices?
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#12
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2/22/08 at 10:43am
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyErwin
In portable devices?

Yes. About the only portable device that doesn't support windows media is the ipod. Now granted the ipod is probably the best selling portable player, but the majority of portable players are not ipods.

Doug

Edit: Sorry I didn't mean to say widely used but rather widely supported.
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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#13
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2/22/08 at 11:27am
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

In a perfect world, of course the studios will seek out the codecs that look and sound the best, given the bit budget. But it would probably be cost prohibitive to do an VC-1 vs H.264 vs Master comparison for each title.
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#14
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2/22/08 at 11:31am
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Yes. About the only portable device that doesn't support windows media is the ipod. Now granted the ipod is probably the best selling portable player, but the majority of portable players are not ipods.

Doug

Edit: Sorry I didn't mean to say widely used but rather widely supported.

I don't know about how widely used they all are, but iPod and PSP seem like the 2 top platforms for portable video at this point. And the PSP is Sony's device, so ...

_Man_

Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".

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#15
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2/22/08 at 12:06pm
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

I would also indicate that Paramount almost exclusively used AVC, as they were using Toshiba's AVC encoder.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#16
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2/22/08 at 1:24pm
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

Well, both are good, and I can see VC1 encoded titles looking even better at the higher bitrates provided by the extra space of BD50.
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#17
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2/22/08 at 1:27pm
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong
I don't know about how widely used they all are, but iPod and PSP seem like the 2 top platforms for portable video at this point. And the PSP is Sony's device, so ...

_Man_


Yes I understand that the Ipod and PSP are the top platforms, but that doesn't mean that most portable players are and Ipod or PSP. I believe at this point the majority of players out there, in other words the Zune, Sandisk, Creative Labs, and most other players, support Windows Media.
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
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#18
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2/22/08 at 2:53pm
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

It will probably mean that bluray encodes can take advantage of the greater bitrate/storage capacity, for what little good this will do. As long as the finished presentaion looks and sounds good, codec choice should be of little consequence.
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#19
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2/22/08 at 3:24pm
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Yes I understand that the Ipod and PSP are the top platforms, but that doesn't mean that most portable players are and Ipod or PSP. I believe at this point the majority of players out there, in other words the Zune, Sandisk, Creative Labs, and most other players, support Windows Media.

Personally, I haven't noticed anyone using those other options for video playback. In NYC, I see lots of people using video-capable iPods and some using PSP -- on the subways, it almost seems like there is 1 iPod/PSP for every 3 or 4 people. Of course, even then, I don't see too many using them for video (unless you count video games for the PSP). I'm at least as likely to see someone using a portable DVD player for video as an iPod/PSP -- though it's not as easy to spot people watching stuff on iPod/PSP than on a portable DVD player.

I do have at least on coworker though who uses his PSP for movies, etc., but he's a commuter from the boondocks in NJ (and he's the only one I personally know who has a comparably large DVD collection and has a couple good size HDTVs and plan to add an FP, but is not yet invested in HDM).

Anyway, I don't really "get" why people would be all that interested in watching movies on such a tiny screen. Regular network TV programs I can understand, especially if you have a significant commute like many who work in the city, but what's the point trying to squint at a tiny picture for movies (and probably also be interrupted multiple times while doing so)?

Having said all that, if the studios would offer the iPod/PSP/whatever download as part of the extra feature for Blu-ray, that just might help sell the format to the masses...

_Man_

Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".

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#20
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2/22/08 at 8:54pm
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

For the record the iPod is the undisputed majority in the portable player market, accounting for 70% of all players. Separating the category into Hard Disk based players, which until recently the HDD iPod was the only one capable of video playback, iPod's share increases to 84%.

"Because he's the hero that Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now... and so we'll hunt him... because he can take it... because he's not a hero... he's a silent guardian, a watchful protector... a DARK KNIGHT."

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#21
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2/23/08 at 6:01am
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Re: Blu-ray and VC-1 ?

Quote:
Apple’s iPod enjoys a 67 percent share of the market for digital-music players, according to the most recent figures from NPD.
Macworld, 22 Feb 2008
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