"Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

100% WRONG.

Bootlegging is piracy; it is theft; it is illegal. Importing a legitimate DVD from another country for your own personal use is none of those things. It is legal in the country you bought it in; it is legal to import it; it is legal to view it. It does not go against the wishes and intentions of the copyright owner because the copyright owner creates the work in the full knowledge that, if that work is pressed on DVD outside the US, then a US consumer can import that disc without breaching the copyright owners rights. In most cases, the copyright owner in external territories is an affiliate or subsidiary of the US copyright owner. In other cases, they have signed deals with the foreign distributor to receive royalties from all sales made by that distributor internationally (including sales to US residents). That is, the copyright owner of the film in the US has authorized its pressing outside the US and understands the consequences of that action. If the US distributor is licensing a film from a foreign territory for sale in the US, then they also understand the consequences of this action, namely that they cannot prevent a US consumer from purchasing a disc from outside the US and importing that disc for personal use.

Do you get the distinction now?

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Carl beat me to my response.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

The import / export of legitimately pressed discs is not bootlegging, nor is it illegal. It would be covered under the concept of "first sale," which permits the owner to do anything with their property that they may choose with the exception of public performance and copying.

The importation of a disc also seldom damages a local distributor, as importation usually flows toward a vacuum.

RAH

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

But I said that you do not have to worry about conversion. Some LCDs, possibly all, read PAL signals. I mean they READ PAL signals as PAL. I am able to watch my PAL DVDs in PAL.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

I am not worried about conversion. I am worried about PAL speed-up. PAL DVDs play 4% too fast, even when played in their native PAL format, so your solution does not help George, myself, or others who are bothered by the speed-up.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Tory,

I don't think you are understanding what Carl and I are saying. If a movie is 2 hours long, when we watch it, it will take 2 hours. On a Pal video, the movie plays too fast, and will only take 1 hour 55 minutes to play. Yes, this distorts the pitch, and yes, the pitch can be corrected. But everything is still playing too fast. To my knowledge, there is no way to take the Pal video, and slow it down so that it plays at the correct speed in 2 hours.

An analogy would be old lp record players if you are familiar with them. You could play at 33 1/3, 45 or 78 rpm. If you played an album (made at 33 1/3) at 45 rpm, it would go too fast.

Admittedly, the changes on an lp are more noticeable than with Pal speedup, but the issue is exactly the same, except that we don't have variable speed options as on a record player, so we are forced to watch pal videos at the wrong speed.

Until it is possible to import a pal video and watch it at the correct speed, many of us will take a pass on pal dvds.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

No because the term "Bootlegger" refers to the seller, not the buyer. You're correct that a consumer is legally entitled to purchase and own imported DVD's (unless, of course, the content itself is illegal). You also can't be arrested for owning a pirated DVD if it's in your own personal collection, just like you can't be arrested for buying a knock-off of a Rolex.

Using the broad, dictionary definition of the term "Bootleg," however, the seller in all of the above instances could be considered a "bootlegger" and the disc, which is region-coded and not intended for sale in another region, could be considered a "bootleg."

But this is all semantics, dependent upon how you are defining the term 'bootleg.' The distinction should be between pirated copy and legitimately pressed copy.

Pirated copy = bad , legitimately pressed copy = good .

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

This talk of pitch is fascinating.

For years I have been trying to figure out something regarding the Beatles films and the pitch of the music that is performed in them. (If this has been discussed before on this Board, I would gladly appreciate being pointed in the right direction.)

Can anyone tell me why many of the songs in (e.g.) A Hard Day's Night are roughly one-half step lower than when we hear them on the studio recordings? (This phenomenon existed years before the advent of DVD, since I first discovered the difference back in 1973.) To cite just a couple of examples, If I Fell is reproduced not in D major, but rather, D-flat major; and And I Love Her 'sounds' approximately one-half step lower than the studio recorded version.

If anyone has any ideas, please let me know. I've discussed this issue with a few scholars of the Beatles work (Walt Everett for one) over the years, and no one has ever been able to offer a convincing reason why this pitch differential occurs. Perhaps it is as simple as the entire film being played back at a slower rate? At least now I'm leaning that way, given some of what I've read in this thread. But I have no idea, and am looking for some speculation on why this might be so. I don't have the ear to know if John, Paul, George, or Ringo are speaking more slowly, but I do have the ear to know in which keys I am hearing the works.

Incidentally, I love the ethos when the songs are sounding a half-step lower, but that is probably a talk for another day.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

And why are you so sure the copyright holders care?

I first watched these Hitchcock "PD" films when I was around seven so that was 20 years ago. In the 20 years since then there have been hundreds of companies that have released these and the "copyright holders" have never came out to stop the releases (which they could). This tells me that they really don't care. Synapse is a lot smaller than Criterion yet they were able to get certain releases pulled due to another studio releasing something they owned the rights to. Why isn't Criterion going after those who release THE LADY VANISHES or THE 39 STEPS? If Criterion wants to release a remastered YOUNG AND INNOCENT, why not go after those releasing it?

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

As to the legality of importation, maybe. With respect to the average HT buff end user, it usually won't be illegal, even though such importation is illegal in many circumstances. § 602(a) of the US Copyright Act (17 USC § 602(a)) provides that "[i]mportation into the United States, without the authority of the owner of copyright under this title, of copies or phonorecords of a work that have been acquired outside the United States is an infringement of the exclusive right to distribute copies or phonorecords..."

However, this section also provides three situations in which unauthorized importation is not infringement. The first and third of these are governmental use (with its own caveats), and importation by or for "scholarly, educational, or religious" organizations for archival/library purposes (again, with its own particular requirements and exceptions). The relevant non-infringing situation is the second one provided in the statute: "importation, for the private use of the importer and not for distribution, by any person with respect to no more than one copy or phonorecord of any one work at any one time, or by any person arriving from outside the United States with respect to copies or phonorecords forming part of such person’s personal baggage." So, if it's for your own private use, you can import copyrighted works with a one copy per-work per-importation limitation, or you can bring in as much as you can take with you in your baggage when coming back from a foreign country.


The first sale doctrine, as it works in the US (and as it is memorialized in statute at 17 USC § 109), only applies to copies made within the US itself. So, if I were to import (in a manner in compliance with § 602) a DVD of Japanese origin into the US, my right to resell that disc would be questionable. Initially, my intention in importing the disc could not have been for redistribution, or the importation would have been in violation of § 602, anyway. Assuming I later decided to resell the disc, I would not be protected by first sale, since the disc was made outside the US. Theoretically, the US copyright holder could take action against me if I resold that Japanese disc.

FWIW...

Damin

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

PAL-to-NTSC conversions look terrible to me, but after watching some PAL DVDs on an all-region player on an NTSC TV, I can't tell any difference.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

The films in question WERE in the public domain twenty years ago in the U.S., but regained their copyrighted status by virtue of the GATT Treaty. As an example Blackmail regained it's copyrighted status on 8 /21/98.

RAH

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

I'm not sure I understand. If you're watching a PAL DVD on an NTSC TV, then a PAL-to_NTSC conversion is taking place at some point in the video chain, correct? Does it look terrible to you, or are you unable to tell the difference?

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

That's what's weird. I can immediately tell with Kino's PAL conversions, but these look just like normal NTSC progressive discs on my Philips player. I guess it has a great processor since it's definiately playing with complete frames visible (no ghosting). I'm able to see the PAL speedup on my laptop, though, so I'm fairly sure the Philips player is slowing down the video instead of blending frames to fit NTSC. The audio doesn't sound sped up or off-pitch, either.

Now I just need to figure out which of the Hitchcock sets I need to buy from R2 since all-region is working out so well for me.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Which Phillips do you have? My Phillips DVP642 and my Pioneer DV383 conversion generally seemed correct in conversion but sometimes I thought the words and mouth were not in synch properly, just every once in a while but for anamorphic widescreen PAL DVDs the top line or two of the image did not go all the way across the screen. this was barely noticeable from a distance but annoying, especially when up close. This does not take place when the TV reads PAL. I do not really notice any issues with the image and voice being out of synch when watching PAL DVDs in PAL like Carry On Camping, Hellzapoppin, and Calcium Kid however the one NTSC JefFilms DVD I purchased by mistake was very much so this way.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Do anyone of you recognise any of these (see attached images) Region 1 boxsets?
Are all worthless?

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

I do not. The set I have is Vintage Movie Classics, includes one disc (three films), and looks like this:



Google Image Result for http://static.hometheaterforum.com/imgrepo/a/a9/htf_imgcache_24351.jpeg

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

If it's from before 1940 and not from Criterion or Lionsgate, it's junk.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

You can spend $10 and see if you enjoy the movies or wait more years to see if they get released by Criterion. After reading this thread I think I'm going to give away all my PD releases as I'm sure Criterion is currently working on SEs of THE APE MAN, BELA LUGOSI MEETS A BROOKLYN GORILLA and KING OF KONG ISLAND. Perhaps they'll do an ape box set and include THE GORILLA and THE APE. Those who enjoy Bergman, Kurosawa and Bunuel will certainly eat up these bananas of the genre.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

It doesn't have to be Criterion. At least half of the unreleased films would probably be handled by Lionsgate. Their 5-film Hitchcock set only costs $30, which is about $6 per film. All fully restored and beautifully remastered.

Also, the difference is that many of the other films you mentioned are actually in the public domain. The Hitchcock films aren't. Don't forget that a lot of those public domain B-movies have excellent remasters from Roan that are inexpensive.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

If Lionsgate continues their series then I'd certainly recommend them over the various PD companies but at this point the series is up in the air. I'm not sure what type of sales numbers the studio is looking at but I've been told they were "highly disappointed" in their sales of the L&H, Arkoff and Hitchcock titles. I'm just guessing but perhaps thats why we haven't seen any more L&H and Arkoff titles, which is a shame but then again, they're all available in R2 land. This just doesn't help those who won't go that route.

Roan is hit and miss with me as is Retromedia and various other small companies. There's just too much work to be done in order to find the best version and since I usually just watch these PD movies once, I opt for the 50 Movie Packs since they are cheap and offer plenty of movies. If I see something that I could watched yearly then I'd upgrade to a better product.

NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD is probably the biggest and most copied PD movie out there yet no one has ever ripped off the Elite transfer. Most of the PD copies are from the old VHS so I'm not sure if a remastered print is under some sort of new copyright or if these companies are just being lazy and not going after the Elite copy. I don't think anyone has used Criterion's CARNIVAL OF SOULS either. THE BLOB is another film that has been out there in the PD market yet I've never heard or seen one that was taken from the Criterion print.

On the other hand, Alpha, Mill Creek and various $1 companies have ripped off Image and their horror/sci-fi titles.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Even if this is way offtopic in this thread, I think I can shed some light on this phenomenon...

It's correct that most, but not all songs in A Hard Day's Night sound about a half-step lower than on the studio recordings if the film is played back at 24fps - this happens only in the scenes which were filmed inside the tv studio where the camera looks at the monitors and tv screens. The reason why the music in these scenes sounds so slow is because they were shot at 25fps to match the frame rate of the television monitors! Played back at the "sound speed" of 24fps we have something like "reverse PAL-speedup".

Except the title song, the first performance of "I should have known better" and "Can't buy me love" everything sounds 4% too slow at 24fps - the 25fps/PAL-versions of AHDN actually have more songs at the correct speed than the NTSC discs. But the slowed down versions have become a part of the movie with its own special sound, so making a pitch correction would be fiddling with the integrity of the movie.

Regarding the discussion about privately importing DVDs from other regions... it's true that a studio can limit the sale of a DVD to a specific country. That just means that shops only in this country can sell the disc, but they can sell it to people all over the world as long as it's a private customer and not for commercial resale.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

MGM seems to be finally doing something with the Hitchcock films they seem to have rights to. Their HD channel (MGM-HD) will air The Lodger on Feb. 2nd. at 4:20 AM.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Wonder what sort of transfer they'll show.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

I receive for Christamas ( which I haven't watched yet ) the Alfred Hitchcock 4 disc set called The Legend Begins by Legends ( Millcreek Entertainment #683904200310 upc ) is has a numebr of older titles such as the tiles in this post,, Is this DVD release legal or a bootleg ??

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

You have bootleg Hitchcock drink coasters.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

But are Public Domain release Bootlegs?? If the time frame of a film lapses and the owner doesnt renew, doesn't that qualify for the film to be 'public domain" ..
Like the story of It's a Wonderful Life'., we know the history of how that film wasn't picked up until the well past the 80's and that is why everyone and their dog had a copy on the market.
Nowadays, NBC and Paramount own this film and not even Christmas time would you find any other network or independent showing this film, as it was shown around the clock decades ago on many TV channels.
And the John Wayne estate kept a tight handle on certain John Wayne titles ( High and The Mighty/ McLintock), as they estate held the rights to these titles and kept them Unavailable.
With that said., Are these public domain AH titles legal copies on independent labels as they are basically lost titles with no Owners , or Hitchcock estate owners attached??

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Pubic domain titles are not "bootlegs."

The Hitchcock titles are not in the public domain.

RAH

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Guido Bibra:
Guido,

Many thanks. Even though I have PM'd you (so I don't go too far off-topic in this thread), I wanted to thank you publically for your response. Much appreciated.

I also edited my related post above to include your corrections. Again, thanks.

Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

People keep going on about "these aren't public domain" then why in the hell have fifteen different companies released them over the past ten years of DVD? Could someone please explain why the right holders haven't put a stop to any of them? One little letter is all it takes to get them removed from every store shelf in this country.

Mill Creek have pulled titles before as has Alpha, Diamond and various other PD companies. Mill Creek has pulled their 50-movie-sets just so they could remove one movie, which turned out not to be PD.