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"Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

#1
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1/21/08 at 8:54am
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Has anyone seen this release?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/ima...0933843&sr=8-5

Is it worth the $22.00? Giving allowances for the fact that it's a public domain release and quality will not be the best, is it at least watchable?
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#2
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1/21/08 at 10:25am
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

This is a pirated collection.

The films are NOT in the public domain.

It's a pity to see that Amazon now openly supports and sells pirated merchandise, and this set should be avoided like the plague.

Even the use of Hitchcock's name, signature and likeness may be illegal.

RAH

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did."  T.E. Lawrence

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#3
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1/21/08 at 10:30am
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
This is a pirated collection.

The films are NOT in the public domain.

It's a pity to see that Amazon now openly supports and sells pirated merchandise, and this set should be avoided like the plague.

Even the use of Hitchcock's name, signature and likeness may be illegal.

RAH

It isn't just Amazon. Walk into any retail store (Wal Mart, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc) and you will see the PD Hitchcock titles.

Whoever controls the rights is doing nothing to enforce them.

Even the major (and otherwise reputable) PD companies are continuing to release new versions. If someone were to alert them of the case, they would probably cease and desist, but I guess that hasn't happened.
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#4
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1/21/08 at 11:31am
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

These films might not be public domain by legal definitions, but they certainly seem to be in the public domain for all practical purposes.
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#5
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1/21/08 at 11:45am
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

I've seen this in retail stores, too.

Andy
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#6
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1/21/08 at 11:58am
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

So, leaving aside the moral and ethical dilemma for a moment: If someone was interested in Hitchcock's early works but was unable to find "official" releases, does anyone know anything about the relative quality of these commercially available "Public Domain" releases? Are they watchable?
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#7
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1/21/08 at 12:10pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD_Brian
So, leaving aside the moral and ethical dilemma for a moment: If someone was interested in Hitchcock's early works but was unable to find "official" releases, does anyone know anything about the relative quality of these commercially available "Public Domain" releases? Are they watchable?


I have the set, and the transfers are variable, as would be expected, and are very much on par with the VHS releases of the same titles which saturated the market in the 90s at bargain basement prices. I don't regret the purchase. I would consider the films watchable.

Screen caps available here:

The Ultimate Hitchcock Collection - St. Clair Vision (USA, 2007) - Alfred Hitchcock Wiki
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#8
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1/21/08 at 12:53pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Putting aside the legal, which is difficult, the release is unacceptable at even PD standards.

As has been noted, they look much like a typical VHS PD release based upon 16mm dupes.

Not a pretty picture.

RAH

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did."  T.E. Lawrence

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#9
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1/21/08 at 1:52pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
Putting aside the legal, which is difficult, the release is unacceptable at even PD standards.

As has been noted, they look much like a typical VHS PD release based upon 16mm dupes.

Not a pretty picture.

RAH

Being in complete agreement with what you have said, I can not believe that the films (of one of our most highly respected and marketable directors) are not being properly preserved and made available in the most pristine form possible on home video. It's a shame and a travesty.
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#10
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1/21/08 at 1:55pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

At the risk of exposing my ignorance of copyright law: If, as Mr. Harris says, these movies are not in the public domain, how do so many companies get away with openly selling them? It's not like these are bootlegs you'd have to pick up in a back alley somewhere; these are readily available both through reputable online vendors such as Amazon and in many B&M stores such as Best Buy, Fry's, Circuit City and Wal-Mart. Is it just a lack of enforcement or is there some other kind of standard being applied? I would think that, in our extremely litigious society, none of the above mentioned vendors would risk openly selling an illegal product.

Is anyone familiar with how these companies are able to get away with it?
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#11
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1/21/08 at 2:16pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Very simple.

They haven't been sued.

Yet.

This boxed set incorporates the holdings of several UK entities, which might finally raise their ire.

The problem going after PD companies is that you can seldom collect damages, which in this case could easily go into the millions -- and the federal authorities are busy elsewhere.

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did."  T.E. Lawrence

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#12
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1/21/08 at 2:32pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD_Brian
So, leaving aside the moral and ethical dilemma for a moment: If someone was interested in Hitchcock's early works but was unable to find "official" releases, does anyone know anything about the relative quality of these commercially available "Public Domain" releases? Are they watchable?
There's a useful website devoted to Alfred Hitchcock on DVD that sorts out quality issues and I think legalities. It recommends what to buy and what to stay away from. I lost the link in a PC crash but if you do a search you may find it. Or perhaps someone here knows the link. Search the HTF for "public domain Hitchcock" it may turn up in one of those threads.
http://www.3dfilmpf.org/
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#13
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1/21/08 at 2:57pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

If you're referring to Dave Pattern's excellent site Richard, it's linked in Mark B's post #7. BTW, I wholeheartedly support Robert's stance on bootleg releases. Just stay away...
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#14
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1/21/08 at 3:35pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

It's just not worth it. Even though I paid $1 for a DVD with The 39 Steps, The Lady Vanishes, Sabotage, and Easy Virtue (just to see how bad the films looked), it went into the trash quickly. Even if it's cheap, it doesn't change the fact that it's impossible to enjoy a movie with such poor quality. Especially after nearly all of the British films have had fully restored releases in Region 2.

Tell The Weinstein Company to release Richard Williams' animated masterpiece The Thief and the Cobbler on DVD in Panavision widescreen and uncut! See and hear what you're missing from their Bitsy Award winner of Worst Standard Edition DVD of 2006 on YouTube!
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#15
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1/21/08 at 4:02pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Hodson
If you're referring to Dave Pattern's excellent site Richard, it's linked in Mark B's post #7. BTW, I wholeheartedly support Robert's stance on bootleg releases. Just stay away...
Hi, John!
Haven't seen you around in awhile.

I thought that link was to something else, thanks for the straight of it. Most of the titles in the bootleg St. Clair set are available in better quality in authorized editions. The site shows authorized sets in the recommended list at the bottom. I have most of these authorized sets and the quality is so much better. Why settle for poor quality transfers when you don't have to.
http://www.3dfilmpf.org/
"... little by little the look of the country changes because of the people we admire."
dialog in HUD (1963)
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#16
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1/21/08 at 4:19pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Yikes! Those screenshots of the St. Clair DVDs have convinced me that I will only pick this set up in the unlikely event that I ever become overly curious about how Hitchcock movies look to people suffering from glaucoma.
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#17
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1/21/08 at 4:25pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark B
Being in complete agreement with what you have said, I can not believe that the films (of one of our most highly respected and marketable directors) are not being properly preserved and made available in the most pristine form possible on home video. It's a shame and a travesty.
It is indeed. People want to see Hitchcock's early films. If they can't get good quality, they'll settle for poor quality. Not everyone can go the import route to get those titles that are unavailable officially in the USA, and some titles aren't available officially anywhere. This is why bootleggers thrive. Bootleg editions of Hitchcock's early films must number in the thousands. That's how intense the consumer demand is.

Authorized editions of these highly popular Hitchcock films would put the bootleggers out of business.
http://www.3dfilmpf.org/
"... little by little the look of the country changes because of the people we admire."
dialog in HUD (1963)
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#18
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1/21/08 at 5:14pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard--W
Authorized editions of these highly popular Hitchcock films would put the bootleggers out of business.

Lawyers would too.

Look what happened with IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE. Every PD company released it, but once an official version was released, and they were notified of its status, they stopped.

And most people don't know the difference between PD and a regular release, let alone have a multi region player. They just pick up what they find in the Wal Mart budget bin.
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#19
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1/21/08 at 7:51pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Criterion has the "legal" rights to both The 39 Steps and The Lady Vanishes in Region One. I wonder if the proliferation of public domain copies influenced them not to go after some of the other british Hitchcocks?

It might also tie in with Criterion's release of The Most Dangerous Game, it was offically licensed from Universal, but a lot of the public domain companies stole Criterion's transfer. (I think the same might be true for Carnival of Souls as well?) I must admit not seeing any PD companies using Criterion's transfer of Charade or My Man Godfrey.

Why bother paying the expenses to do a nice deluxe version of a film that pd companies are going to steal. I don't know why Criterion hasn't started suing some of those companies, or the British rights-holders.
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#20
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1/21/08 at 8:42pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

In regards to British films, do not buy Jef Films from amazon or buy or if you see them anywhere, it is the same situation but with less in demand films. It is better to import, it is not so hard, it is not illegal and you can find better presentations, even with conversion.
Please sign our petition to get Warner to release DVDs of all films that they can featuring Bert Wheeler, Robert Woolsey and/or Dorothy Lee.
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#21
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1/22/08 at 5:53am
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

It is better to import
Unfortunately, not an option for those of us unwilling to put up with video and audio 4% too fast.

"Movies should be like amusement parks. People should go to them to have fun." - Billy Wilder

"Subtitles good. Hollywood bad." - Tarzan, Sight & Sound 2012 voter.

"My films are not slices of life, they are pieces of cake." - Alfred Hitchcock"My great humility is just one of the many reasons that I...

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#22
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1/22/08 at 6:05am
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Quote:
Originally Posted by george kaplan
It is better to import
Unfortunately, not an option for those of us unwilling to put up with video and audio 4% too fast. (
Look for a multi-region DVD player with a pitch control.
http://www.3dfilmpf.org/
"... little by little the look of the country changes because of the people we admire."
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#23
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1/22/08 at 7:03am
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Can an Admin please change the title of this thread to: Pirated release?

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did."  T.E. Lawrence

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#24
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1/22/08 at 3:03pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Look for a multi-region DVD player with a pitch control.
Are you saying that there is a machine that will play a PAL disc at the proper speed? Or just fix the pitch? Cause if it's just fixing the pitch, but the picture is still going by too fast, and the sound is still being made too fast (even at the right pitch), then I'll pass.

"Movies should be like amusement parks. People should go to them to have fun." - Billy Wilder

"Subtitles good. Hollywood bad." - Tarzan, Sight & Sound 2012 voter.

"My films are not slices of life, they are pieces of cake." - Alfred Hitchcock"My great humility is just one of the many reasons that I...

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#25
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1/22/08 at 4:06pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Does anyone really think Criterion is going to waste time and release each of these early Hitchcock titles? Of course they're not going to so releases like these are the only way people can see the film. All this picture quality talk is just downright crazy at times because the bottom line is that there are films out there that no company is going to spend money on. Are we suppose to pretend these films don't exist because they don't have Warner quality?
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#26
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1/22/08 at 4:16pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

I find this talk of pitch and speed of the picture fascinating. I'd like to learn more about it.

I own Young and Innocent (a.k.a. The Girl Was Young) on DVD; the tune near the conclusion (Drummer Man) is performed at the correct pitch on my copy. (By pitch, I mean musical pitch in this instance, as opposed to another meaning that may be being discussed here.) The tune begins in D minor, then gravitates to C major as the conductor begins singing. It meanders to C minor right after 'it isn't a puzzle, it isn't a riddle, it's generally known,' and then we eventually get a wonderfully abrupt shift back to D minor as the conductor turns to his left toward the drummer, beginning that compellingly slow zoom (sorry if this is not the correct term) in toward the orchestra, finally residing on the drummer. I'm watching it right now on my PC, and I have chills every time I see this wonderful scene. How I would have loved to have been there when it was filmed. Heck, I would have loved to have been the piano player.

Incidentally, the edition I own is Vintage Movie Classics, and includes The Thirty Nine Steps, Young and Innocent, and Rich and Strange (Vintage 2031). I don't know too much about the edition, except that I enjoy watching it and have had no problems with it. The copy is very scratchy, but I'd rather have that than nothing at this point.
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#27
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1/22/08 at 4:17pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Elliott
Does anyone really think Criterion is going to waste time and release each of these early Hitchcock titles? Of course they're not going to so releases like these are the only way people can see the film. All this picture quality talk is just downright crazy at times because the bottom line is that there are films out there that no company is going to spend money on. Are we suppose to pretend these films don't exist because they don't have Warner quality?

Waste time? And how would they be doing that exactly?

These are films by one of the 20th century's best and most famous directors, a name even those with only a passing knowledge of film is familiar with, not 'films out there that no company is going to spend money on'.

Most of these titles are available in properly licensed releases editions in R2, with transfers that beat the hell out of the bootleg garbage on the market; there's absolutely no reason at all why R1 will not be blessed with the same at some point.

Bootlegs; there is no justification whatsoever.
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#28
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1/22/08 at 4:25pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Hodson
Waste time? And how would they be doing that exactly?

These are films by one of the 20th century's best and most famous directors, a name even those with only a passing knowledge of film is familiar with, not 'films out there that no company is going to spend money on'.

Most of these titles are available in properly licensed releases editions in R2, with transfers that beat the hell out of the bootleg garbage on the market; there's absolutely no reason at all why R1 will not be blessed with the same at some point.

Bootlegs; there is no justification whatsoever.

True, but you are talking about films that have been available by countless companies on VHS and DVD for the past twenty years. The market is saturated, and the average person doesn't know the difference.

The rights holders are not interested in enforcing the rights they have. So, why would a company bother to restore a film and release it at a higher price if you know all the PD companies will continue to be able to release their versions with no problems?
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#29
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1/22/08 at 4:29pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Hodson
Bootlegs; there is no justification whatsoever.

Aside from the obvious poor quality issue, I can certainly understand the usefulness of bootlegs: Sometimes there is a movie you really want to see and, if nobody's bothered to do a proper DVD release in your region...well, desperate times, desperate measures.

What I find odd is the indignation some people feel toward bootleging, meanwhile they champion hacking into and tampering with a Region 1 DVD player to make it region-free so that they can purchase DVDs of dubious quality that ARE NOT LICENSED TO BE SOLD IN THIS COUNTRY. It's the exact same principal.
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#30
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1/22/08 at 4:33pm
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Re: "Ultimate Hitchcock Collection" Public Domain release

This thread is probably not going anywhere useful or pleasant.
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