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Originally Posted by Sanjay Gupta
Maybe so, but could you please explain the rationale as to why anyone who buys into HD-DVD now, after the Warner announcement, deserves consideration on sympathetic grounds? I have already expressed that I do favor an offer, based on marketing & promotional grounds and for those who bought into HD-DVD before the announcement.
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\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert
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Originally Posted by Sanjay Gupta
Maybe so, but could you please explain the rationale as to why anyone who buys into HD-DVD now, after the Warner announcement, deserves consideration on sympathetic grounds? I have already expressed that I do favor an offer, based on marketing & promotional grounds and for those who bought into HD-DVD before the announcement.
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Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
It doesn't make any difference to me what they offer or to whom. I'm just a consumer so I don't have any say in that matter and I wonder why you're being so outspoken about it, unless, you're trying to stir up some kind of reaction from HD DVD proponents?
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Sanjay
Member since July - August 1997
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Originally Posted by Sanjay Gupta
On a personal level, it makes absolutely no difference to me either. But pointing out that 'I' or 'we' don't have a say in studio decisions, is only stating the very obvious. Thus I don't see the objective behind your doing so, other than to maybe express your disagreement and/or displeasure with my opinion. I am sure all of us on this forum are well aware that none of the conjecture and/or opinions expressed by one and all, including myself, in this or any other forum holds any value over a board room decision. But if that was reason enough for us to not express our opinions, then I guess the purpose of this or any other forum is moot, or atleast threads like this should not exist at all.
In the context of this thread, my post is quite valid, as it is my opinion on the matter and I fail to understand why it should be read as an attempt "to stir up some kind of reaction from HD DVD proponents". I have, in the early days of this thread, made posts in favor of a "peace offering", but as the days have gone by I have noticed the attitude of many has been to suggest that people should continue to buy into HD-DVD for no other logic but to simply keep the format alive. That to me is lame and certainly detrimental to the cause of Home Theater. Sympathy is something one would have for someone that may suffer damages due to no fault of theirs. If someone bought into HD-DVD before the Warner announcement, they can be sympathised with, for they may have been misled by the statements made by Warner regarding their staying neutral. Now, when things are clear as day, that Blu-Ray is definately going to be around irrespective of what happens with HD-DVD, the logical, non emotional decision would be to no longer further invest in HD-DVD. But inspite of knowing all this, if one still wishes to invest in HD-DVD, so be it. After all it is their money, but then they certainly don't deserve any sympathy and/or "peace offerings". |
I think the interest of most blu-consumers is simple: to help heal the emotional divide between HT enthusiasts on both side. I also see the logic of Sanjay's point that consumers purchasing after-the-fact would seem to be outside of the "burned by Warner" category and therefore the notion of a peace-offering seems less applicable to them. I don't think that anyone would raise objections, however, if the BDA did in fact offer benevolance accross all categories. Heck, I'd love a disc-coupon for a free movie just for having been blu! 
| Sanjay, I really think members of the BDA are in no mood to discuss much less offer any kind of marketing/promotional considerations to HD-DVD buyers in light of Toshiba decision to stay the course. This thread is obsolete. |
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Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
Exactly. How do you propose to police such a program, Sanjay? It can't be done.
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I would offer an exchange program for all Warner titles released before the announcement. I would tie up with a major retailer for this purpose, wherein for a charge of $5 the HD-DVDs could be exchanged for the same title on Blu-Ray. The retailer could keep $2 to cover their administrative costs, ofcourse they would also gain from additional business generated from the extra footfall. The balance $3 would go to Warner to cover their costs. In the case of titles that are still not available on Blu-Ray, the customer could be given an option of exchanging the HD-DVD for any other Blu-Ray catalog title from Warner and/or they could be given a coupon, as a rain check, redeemable directly from Warner when the title does become available on Blu-Ray. Obviously for this purpose and for the sake of promoting Blu-Ray, Warner would give priority to releasing these title on Blu-Ray as soon as possible. Regarding the HD-DVD hardware itself, I don't think there is a need for any offer. My justification for this is simple, those that bought players in the month before the announcement, a substantial number I am sure, had a clear opportunity to return the hardware, since most if not all retailers offer a 30 day back guarantee. As for those that bought HD-DVD players earlier have already depreciated their investment and have gotten usage out if them and can continue to use them for non Warner HD-DVD titles and also for regular DVDs as an upscaling player. After all, is that not what Toshiba is now promoting/highlighting as the central function of their HD-DVD players? As for those that choose to still invest in HD-DVD, hardware or software, it's their money to do with as they please, but then they certainly don't deserve any "peace offerings" and in any case the "peace offering" has to be a time limited offer and obviously while there is still a war. What may be worth considering though, is that the cutoff date for any such offer, be the date the 'offer' is first made, rather than the date Warner made it's announcement.Sanjay
Member since July - August 1997
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Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
I don't think that the BDA's perception of what consumer do or don't deserve is based on Toshiba's actions. But I haven't been in contact with any BDA member on this point so I don't know if anything is even being actively considered. |
I admit no contact with BDA members either. My speculation is based strickly on anticipated human behavior and sheer quess work on my part. Quite frankly, I'll bet, dollars to donuts that they (BDA) are pissed and wondering among themselves just what it takes to get rid of this pesky format.
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Originally Posted by bigluigi
Sanjay,
I really think members of the BDA are in no mood to discuss much less offer any kind of marketing/promotional considerations to HD-DVD buyers in light of Toshiba decision to stay the course. This thread is obsolete. |
Sanjay
Member since July - August 1997
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Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
Because I'm still wondering why you care if such an offer is ever made?
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Sanjay
Member since July - August 1997
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Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes.
Cees |
Sanjay
Member since July - August 1997
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Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Nothing (except the dangerous BD+, but that's another matter).
Why? Cees |
Sanjay
Member since July - August 1997
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Originally Posted by Sanjay Gupta
In fact the strongest advertising campaign the BDA can come up with at this stage, is for the advertising to communicate an offer to replace a 'dead/dying' format with the format that has won and is the future. Psychologically, any campaign with such an offer, would be a far bigger blow to HD-DVD than the Warner announcement itself.
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Originally Posted by bigluigi
For example, the next time you go to Walmart check out the people hovering around the $5 DVD bins and you'll see that alot of them are women and older folk....not what you would call "good" PS3 material. Hell, their not even on the BDA's radar. And yet these same people account for a good portion of DVD sales and will ultimately determine if HDM goes niche or mainstream.
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When you have to shoot...shoot. Don't talk!
| That is because the PS3 demographic consists of people who have disposable income and a penchant to adopt the newest technological toys. |
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Originally Posted by Edwin-S
Do you really believe that a bunch of bargain bin trollers at Wal-Mart are going to have any impact on whether HDM goes mainstream? Those people are going to have zero effect on whether HDM goes mainstream or remains niche. That is because bargain bin trollers belong to the demographic that adopts a technology last. They are very late adopters who only become involved once the technology has reached an advanced state of maturity. In fact, I would say they adopt at just about the time a new technology arrives to supplant the one that they are buying into.
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Just think of those bins as symbolic of women and older folk and, of course, Walmart accounts for about 30-35% of all DVD sales. I use my wife and her women friends as a barometer.
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Originally Posted by Sanjay Gupta
"I don't trust Greeks, even if they are bringing gifts"? That's all, the statement made me curious to know the cause of the fear, it alluded to.
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Originally Posted by Sanjay Gupta
Psychologically, any campaign with such an offer, would be a far bigger blow to HD-DVD than ...
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Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
The primary market for HDM is men in their late 20's to mid 40's. That should help establish a market for classics once the ball gets rolling. Now that we're moving with momentum towards a single format solution, there's a greater chance than ever that we'll get those classics after all.
The bargin-walmart shoppers weren't the market to get those classics out either. |
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Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Frankly the only thing in the bargain bin at the walmart where is shop, is spanish language films. I haven't seen mainstream American films in a bargain bin in several years.
Doug |
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".
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Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich
But may not be the demographic that gets classic titles released during my lifetime...
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| Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes. |
Feline videophiles Susie and Dukie.
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Originally Posted by Sanjay Gupta
For arguments sake, let's assume that the top brass at Warner and BDA actually listen to me.
I would offer an exchange program for all Warner titles released before the announcement. I would tie up with a major retailer for this purpose, wherein for a charge of $5 the HD-DVDs could be exchanged for the same title on Blu-Ray. The retailer could keep $2 to cover their administrative costs, ofcourse they would also gain from additional business generated from the extra footfall. The balance $3 would go to Warner to cover their costs. In the case of titles that are still not available on Blu-Ray, the customer could be given an option of exchanging the HD-DVD for any other Blu-Ray catalog title from Warner and/or they could be given a coupon, as a rain check, redeemable directly from Warner when the title does become available on Blu-Ray. Obviously for this purpose and for the sake of promoting Blu-Ray, Warner would give priority to releasing these title on Blu-Ray as soon as possible. Regarding the HD-DVD hardware itself, I don't think there is a need for any offer. My justification for this is simple, those that bought players in the month before the announcement, a substantial number I am sure, had a clear opportunity to return the hardware, since most if not all retailers offer a 30 day back guarantee. As for those that bought HD-DVD players earlier have already depreciated their investment and have gotten usage out if them and can continue to use them for non Warner HD-DVD titles and also for regular DVDs as an upscaling player. After all, is that not what Toshiba is now promoting/highlighting as the central function of their HD-DVD players? As for those that choose to still invest in HD-DVD, hardware or software, it's their money to do with as they please, but then they certainly don't deserve any "peace offerings" and in any case the "peace offering" has to be a time limited offer and obviously while there is still a war. What may be worth considering though, is that the cutoff date for any such offer, be the date the 'offer' is first made, rather than the date Warner made it's announcement.The $5 charge is based on the presumption that the additional cost of just the Blu-Ray disc and the packaging is most probably under $3. Here in India Moser Baer is actually selling new titles on DVD for $1 MRP (maximum retail price). Keeping in mind that the $1 covers all manufacturing, distribution and marketing costs in addition to profits for the company, it's distributors and retailers, one can presume that $3 ought to safely cover the cost of manufacturing an additional Blu-Ray disc. All other costs, such as mastering, designing, marketing etc. are all fixed costs and thus don't effect the costing for such an offer. As for the cost of communicating such an offer? It would be covered by the BDA from their advertising and promotional budget. In fact the strongest advertising campaign the BDA can come up with at this stage, is for the advertising to communicate an offer to replace a 'dead/dying' format with the format that has won and is the future. Psychologically, any campaign with such an offer, would be a far bigger blow to HD-DVD than the Warner announcement itself. |
\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert
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Originally Posted by Demise
Herein lies one of my greatest caveats for HDM in general. I simply don't believe it will be profitable for the studios to go deep into their catalogs for many years, if ever. Since many of the films at the top of my want list were made pre-1960, this is a major deterrent for investing in Blu-ray. Much of my motivation for getting HD DVD was the fact that it had "Casablanca", "Adventures of Robin Hood", and "Forbidden Planet". My understanding is that those discs have not sold well. I doubt, because of the PS3 demographic that dominates Blu-ray sales, that they would do much better on Blu.
I don't expect a peace offering. I'm a consumer and the BDA is going to have to make it worth my while to invest in their format. Warner certainly has the catalog to do it, but I'd be very surprised if we see much classic cinema from them anytime soon. "Spider-man 3", "POTC: At World's End", or "Superbad" just don't do much for me. Michael Bay probably is a perfect spokesperson for Blu-ray, which means I'm just not the audience it's aimed at. So my disposable income will go elsewhere. |
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Originally Posted by Demise
Michael Bay probably is a perfect spokesperson for Blu-ray, which means I'm just not the audience it's aimed at. So my disposable income will go elsewhere.
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When you have to shoot...shoot. Don't talk!
