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Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

#691
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1/7/08 at 5:09pm
  • Joined: February 2003
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Moore
I think the biggest boost to HDM will be the switch over to digital TV next year. Its going to force millions of people to go out and buy a new TV.

That's not the case if I understand correctly. Anyone receiving their programming through Cable or Satellite, for instance, will not be affected by the switch. It's really only those who get their programming over-the-air. And that is probably a very small percentage-- then consider the vast majority of those getting their programming over-the-air probably won't care enough to buy into HDM anyway. I imagine the switch over will have a immaterial effect on HDM adoption.

I think the adoption of HDM is going to be a very slow process. Most people don't even have their DVD players hooked up properly to take advantage of the resolution. Unfortunately we're a small group that cares this much about PQ. For most people, DVD was all about a shiny new disc, no rewinding, etc. The battle between HD DVD and Blu-ray may be over, but the biggest battle of them all is still ahead.
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#692
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1/7/08 at 5:43pm
  • Joined: January 2005
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is now Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moritz
I beleive that Pioneer is still offering the DVL-919 DVD/Laser Disc player. The only thing is that I also beleive that the retail is about $999. Even though it offers component video out which I would love to have since I still watch some of my LD from time to time. But I do not think I would spend $1k on a DVD/Laserdisc player.
I always understood that the component out was for DVD only on this player.
if it does both I may get one to replace my Elite CLD-99.
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#693
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1/7/08 at 5:54pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I do not know if the component out is only for the DVD section of the player or not. But you would think that both formats would be able to output via component. I would consider picking up a used one later next year if the player outputs dvd and laserdisc via component, that would be great.

1080p High Definition SupporterLossless Audio Supporter Current Library: 221 DVD's / 70 HD-DVD's / 181 Blu-ray's (251 HD Titles)

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#694
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1/7/08 at 6:24pm
  • Joined: January 2005
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moritz
I do not know if the component out is only for the DVD section of the player or not. But you would think that both formats would be able to output via component. I would consider picking up a used one later next year if the player outputs dvd and laserdisc via component, that would be great.
I'm going to call Poineer tomorrow they still sell it so they should know.
I post their answer.
Looked for a manual for down load on their site but did not fine one.
Also One Call still has them in stock too for a little less than Poineer is retailing them for.
I have an authorized repair shop near by, I wonder if component outputs could be custom installed to my CLD-99 I call them too and post what they say.
I just love that player and it has a great picture on my Sony with the HD upconversion via S-Video but component would rock!
I know this is off topic sorry.
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#695
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1/7/08 at 7:35pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Up until now, sales of HD-DVD and Blu-ray players have been low because of the very high cost of the player itself compared to normal stand-alone DVD players and reluctance of the majority of consumers to buy either format.

But now that we're heading towards Blu-ray being the primary HDM format, I expect companies to start developing technologies to dramatically reduce the cost of Blu-ray players (e.g, use the latest integrated circuit technologies to drastically reduce the chip count on the circuit board of a Blu-ray player). I wouldn't be surprised that Profile 1.1 players from a major manufacturer drops under US$200 in price and Profile 2.0 players from a major manufacturer drops under US$250 in price, both by early 2009.

Raymond in Sacramento, CA USA

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#696
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1/7/08 at 7:35pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Well, to answer the off-topic, I'm pretty sure the LD/DVD players don't output laserdisc (or CD-Video) through the component video, just DVD and video CD. You have to have the analog jacks hooked up to get analog sound from LDs too. Good to see Pioneer's still supporting these; my DVL-909 has been in regular use since 1998 and I'd still like to keep it going for a long time even after I finally upgrade to Blu-Ray.

Home video oddities, old commercials and other junk: http://www.youtube.com/user/eyeh8nbc

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#697
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1/7/08 at 7:49pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

It seems the Financial Times is reporting that Paramount is looking to get out of its exclusive HD DVD contract. No sources are mentioned in the story, so I'll be taking this report with a grain of salt until I see something to back it up (or an official announcement).
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#698
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1/7/08 at 8:32pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

My main concern now with Warner going Blu: Is Twister still going to be released on HD-DVD in May or will it be scrapped. Also, although they are Paramount films, I wonder if the "corrected" Jack Ryan set will see light of day or if they will be shelved indefinitely out of fear of the ship sinking and the money going with it.

Personally, Warner's move doesn't bother me much. Today I picked up three used HD-DVD titles and plan to pick up more as they come in at Hasting's.
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#699
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1/7/08 at 8:39pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I may be wrong so please some one correct me if I am not correct on this. I beleive that WB will be dropping HD-DVD in May so I would be looking for the HD-DVD version of Twister to be scraped. I would be very suprised if it actually was released, even if it is one of the last HD-DVD's it should not matter. Twister is slated to come out on Blu-ray as well so it should not matter in the long run. But my money is on the HD-DVD version disapearing and not happening.

1080p High Definition SupporterLossless Audio Supporter Current Library: 221 DVD's / 70 HD-DVD's / 181 Blu-ray's (251 HD Titles)

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#700
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1/7/08 at 8:43pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I believe the drop date for HD DVD is May 31st, and the start of Blu-ray exclusively is June 1. With the announcement that HD DVD releases would be slightly delayed compared to their Blu and DVD counterparts, I have no idea what that would do to a title that was scheduled to be released in the latter half of May.
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#701
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1/7/08 at 9:24pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
But now that we're heading towards Blu-ray being the primary HDM format, I expect companies to start developing technologies to dramatically reduce the cost of Blu-ray players (e.g, use the latest integrated circuit technologies to drastically reduce the chip count on the circuit board of a Blu-ray player). I wouldn't be surprised that Profile 1.1 players from a major manufacturer drops under US$200 in price and Profile 2.0 players from a major manufacturer drops under US$250 in price, both by early 2009.
Why would you think that? If heavy competition from HD-DVD and is much lower price wasn't enough to drive down BR cost, why should it go down that much went there is no competition?

"But there is competition among the various manufacturers!"
The name brand companies are not going to cutthroat each other and themselves by greatly reducing prices for such a small market that probably hopes to sell another 1-2 million stand-alone units over the next year. When DVD players went to slim margins, the major manufacturers got out. They are going to try to keep the price as high as possible that still allows the format to grow. I think we will be lucky to see a BR player that doesn't have built-in obsolecense under $399 MSRP by Xmas 2008.
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#702
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1/7/08 at 9:32pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

It's not about the CE manufacturers cutthroating eachother, but about reducing the manufacturing costs to produce the players overall. Integrated circuits cost so much less to produce than processessor chips. They could significantly reduce the retail price of the hardware while actually having a greater profit margin on it (a plus for both the manufacturer and the consumer).
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#703
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1/7/08 at 9:33pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Well, thank God! For the first time I am *slightly* interested in jumping on the HD bandwagon, after this obscene format war completely killed my interest. I have never cared which format won, only that one of them did sooner rather than later.

As to the bellyachers moaning about HD DVDs fate, get over it. You have no one to blame but yourself for buying into the middle of a format war. If only people had had the sense to boycott both formats until the corperate A$$es got their act together the war might have been over a looooooong time ago.
Jonathan Timar
Website: The Limelight
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#704
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1/7/08 at 9:49pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonZ
I dont care about web features either.

Well, even if one doesn't avail themselves of the current HD-DVD web enabled features (and the promised BR similar features one of these years) it sure makes it a lot easier to upgrade the firmware via the Ethernet route. I've done this on a continuous basis on all my HD-DVD players and even on my PS3 which is now up to BR Profile 1.1 (with BR 2.0 promised at some point.) Now if the PS3 ever gets the DTS MA audio decoding accomplished it will still be the perfect BR player.

Too many people are quickly dismissing the FW upgradability without having to burn a CD when talking about "web features." I could give a Ratatoille's ass about most extra disc content in most cases (a personal choice) since I don't really have the time - although the prospect of being able to correct content mistakes on a disc has always intrigued me.
RAF
[Demented Video Dude since 1997]
[Computer Maven since 1956]
["PITA" since 1942]
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#705
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1/7/08 at 9:51pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAF
Well, even if one doesn't avail themselves of the current HD-DVD web enabled features (and the promised BR similar features one of these years) it sure makes it a lot easier to upgrade the firmware via the Ethernet route. I've done this on a continuous basis on all my HD-DVD players and even on my PS3 which is now up to BR Profile 1.1 (with BR 2.0 promised at some point.) Now if the PS3 ever gets the DTS MA audio decoding accomplished it will still be the perfect BR player.

Too many people are quickly dismissing the FW upgradability without having to burn a CD when talking about "web features." I could give a Ratatoille's ass about most extra disc content in most cases (a personal choice) since I don't really have the time - although the prospect of being able to correct content mistakes on a disc has always intrigued me.
thelookandsoundofperfect.com hasn't been working for a little while for me. Hmmm...
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#706
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1/7/08 at 10:07pm
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Re: BREAKING NEWS!! Warner Brothers is now Blu-ray Exclusive

Quote:
Originally Posted by WadeM
The biggest selling points for me when DVD came out was OAR and supposed durability.

This "difference between VHS and DVD" topic has now come up several times in this extensive thread and many people are missing the point about what actually became one of the best features of DVDs compared to VHS in addition to the others already mentioned. DVDs can access content in a non-linear fashion via menus (and without disc flipping like LDs). This was a big reason that CDs replaced cassette tapes. And no more rewinding fees (although in the early days of DVD I recall seeing some rental locations sticking a "don't forget to rewind" sticker on some DVDs.



This might sound like a trivial thing to those of us interested in quality sight and sound, but certainly is an important convenience feature to the average renter and buyer of media. And while I am a big proponent of the superior picture and far superior sound of HD media I will be the first to admit that both SD DVD and HD discs offer non-linear access to content (although the HD media does it more elegantly.) I'm not surprised that the non-technical viewer doesn't consider HDM a significant upgrade to SD DVD. They are not Luddites. They simply are not watching and listening on equipment that can take advantage of all the higher visual and audio resolutions.
RAF
[Demented Video Dude since 1997]
[Computer Maven since 1956]
["PITA" since 1942]
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#707
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1/7/08 at 10:11pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

More developments...

FT.com / Mergermarket - Paramount in HD DVD blow

Apologies if this has already been posted but can anyone comment on how credible this source is?
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#708
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1/7/08 at 10:19pm
  • Joined: September 2002
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAF
Well, even if one doesn't avail themselves of the current HD-DVD web enabled features (and the promised BR similar features one of these years) it sure makes it a lot easier to upgrade the firmware via the Ethernet route. I've done this on a continuous basis on all my HD-DVD players and even on my PS3 which is now up to BR Profile 1.1 (with BR 2.0 promised at some point.) Now if the PS3 ever gets the DTS MA audio decoding accomplished it will still be the perfect BR player.

Too many people are quickly dismissing the FW upgradability without having to burn a CD when talking about "web features." I could give a Ratatoille's ass about most extra disc content in most cases (a personal choice) since I don't really have the time - although the prospect of being able to correct content mistakes on a disc has always intrigued me.

Oh, I'm well aware of the firmware updates via disc being somewhat of a pain. We have every BD player at work, so I'm very familiar with it.
My DVD/BD Collection
Criterion DVD/BDs Owned: 55, Total DVDs Owned: 525, Blu-ray Discs Owned: 227
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#709
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1/7/08 at 10:45pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey
Why would you think that? If heavy competition from HD-DVD and is much lower price wasn't enough to drive down BR cost, why should it go down that much went there is no competition?

"But there is competition among the various manufacturers!"
The name brand companies are not going to cutthroat each other and themselves by greatly reducing prices for such a small market that probably hopes to sell another 1-2 million stand-alone units over the next year. When DVD players went to slim margins, the major manufacturers got out. They are going to try to keep the price as high as possible that still allows the format to grow. I think we will be lucky to see a BR player that doesn't have built-in obsolecense under $399 MSRP by Xmas 2008.
Counterpoint 1: DVD had no format war competition. Yet prices still declined significantly over time. That is the natural way of electronics since I can remember. You will always be able to buy something better for cheaper, given the passing of time. I bought my Toshiba SD-2006 in May of 1997 for $499 and that was the cheapest player of the launch batch. Yes, Sony released their initial DVD player at $1000.

Does that pricing structure look familiar?

Counterpoint 2: There are many reasons for lower MSRP, competition is only one of them. Another, as was mentioned above, is cost of components. The longer, and the more, of the components are made over time, naturally the price drops. As the price of components drop, the price of the whole item drops. They are interested in maintaining a healthy profit margin, not keeping prices high. As soon as production for players ramps up and costs go down, so will MSRP. And while the "big boys" may not be trying to one-up each other to the death, Funai and the rest of the Chinese/SE Asian manufacturers aren't going to play by the pricing rules of the big boys. The fact that Funai has announced is a big deal.

Sure, BD player prices are not going to drop to DVD player prices any time soon, but people who weren't in the market when DVD launched in 1997 don't remember that pricing for those players followed a very similar trend to BD players.
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#710
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1/7/08 at 10:51pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Yup Carlo. In mid 1997, I got the Sony DVP-S300 for $599. No component out even.
Lil' Louie's Lounge II
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#711
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1/7/08 at 10:53pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Louie
Yup Carlo. In mid 1997, I got the Sony DVP-S300 for $599. No component out even.
And wasn't the S300 their second, subsequent "budget" model?
Their initial offering was, I can't remember the number exactly, I think it was the DVP-S7000 (I seem to remember 7000 was in it) and that was $999.
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#712
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1/7/08 at 10:59pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina
And wasn't the S300 their second, subsequent "budget" model?
Their initial offering was, I can't remember the number exactly, I think it was the DVP-S7000 (I seem to remember 7000 was in it) and that was $999.

Oops! It was the DVP-S3000. Yeah, the 7000 was their flagship model at that time, and the 3000 the next model down (those were the only two at that time). I remember the 7000 being $999 at The Good Guys, but they were out of stock; so, I picked up the 3000 that night instead.

Here's a link to an old review of the 3000:

DVP-S3000 Review
Lil' Louie's Lounge II
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#713
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1/7/08 at 11:27pm
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

I hope this is true, but I'd like to see more sources reporting this (or see it actually happen). Color me skeptical until then...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hong_suy
More developments...

FT.com / Mergermarket - Paramount in HD DVD blow

Apologies if this has already been posted but can anyone comment on how credible this source is?
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#714
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1/8/08 at 12:44am
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Re: BREAKING NEWS!! Warner Brothers is now Blu-ray Exclusive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Martin
Great! the less chance J6P and his ignorant demands won't screw the format up. I can see it now "Full screen BR titles"
This statement is damn funny Shane the way you put this made my day. Let's hope indeed J6P doesn't get any say in this.

" I think it's time we go to plan B". "What's plan B?" "That's the one where we don't do something stupid".

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#715
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1/8/08 at 3:56am
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

If true the format war could be over sooner than many of us had hoped. There is no way Universal can keep HD-DVD afloat all by themselves, at least not for very long. And it is the perfect excuse for Universal to back out and go Blu-ray. If Universal ends up being the last one at the HD-DVD party when the music stops, this could all be over before summer. Granted all the right things have to happen in order for the war to be over by summer. But if Toshiba knows that Paramount is bailing out that could speed talks with Sony to end the war.

So WB going Blu may have helped speed up developments alot more than originally thought, dam an CES is not even over yet. I would love to know how true that artilcle is about Paramount leaving HD-DVD only status is!

1080p High Definition SupporterLossless Audio Supporter Current Library: 221 DVD's / 70 HD-DVD's / 181 Blu-ray's (251 HD Titles)

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#716
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1/8/08 at 4:49am
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moritz
I agree agree but you know at some point the industry will most likely push 4k video as the ultimate solution. Even if the average display is to small to take advantage of the increased resolution. We have basically had 4k resolution in todays comercial theaters for 20+ years. But in a home inviroment the screen sizes are way to small to use 4k video. At that point it would be just a matter of braggin rights and owning a format that is the equal of the 35mm masters. Again does the average consumer need it? Maybe not. But again because the average consumer does not need it does not mean it will not be offered. But if I upgraded to 4k video that would be the end of the upgrade chain. In all actuallity my current HD upgrade my be the last major upgrade that I do, its hard to say at this point in time. We shall see what new toys come out in the next 10 - 15 years and go from there.

35mm release prints rarely reach the equivalent of 4k resolution being that they are often 5 or 6 generations away from the original negative. They often don't even reach 2k resolution. And of course many films have used 2k digital intermediaries.

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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#717
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1/8/08 at 5:04am
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Re: Warner Brothers is now Blu-ray Exclusive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Karlosi
I don't think the masses will care as much about switiching over to HDM if they're still given a choice to buy cheaper SDs. I'm sure they'll grow to see and appreciate the difference in HD broadcasts, though.



I know, and I've always agreed. I wasn't making a judgment about a TV though; I was making a call on the Blu Ray quality. It already looked way too unrealistically "vivid" to me; you mean it looks even moreso out of the store?

I think there are a fair number of people that are going to want that big flat panel TV. As long as they have to upgrade the TV anyway why not get one and HD. And btw I was looking in Wal-mart and Best Buy. I can't find more than a handful of SDTVs that are over about 25 inches. Most of them are 13 to 20 inches. Most people aren't going to want a 20 inch TV for their living room. If they want a big TV they are pretty much going to have to buy an HDTV. The glass tube TVs are being phased out. They are getting harder and harder to find.

Yes the stores almost always use the "vivid" or "game" setting on the display TVs to make the picture pop. It sells TVs. But it surely isn't accurate.

When you get it home and calibrate it with something like the Digital Video Essentials test discs, you end up with natural looking colors and accurate black levels. Of course there are some films that are over saturated because the producers of these films seem to think that everything should look like an HD sports broadcast.

Frankly I don't think the pirates films look much like film because they have been digitally tweaked beyond what the original film elements were intended to look like. But then thats the way these films looked in the theater so blu-ray is actually producing the look correctly.

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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#718
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1/8/08 at 5:08am
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Re: Warner Brothers is now Blu-ray Exclusive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Colella
HD flat panel TVs have been selling extremely well over the last year, but HD-DVD/BD players and movies aren't exactly flying off the shelves. What's the ratio of HDTVs to HDM Players? 1000:1? 10,000:1?

The vast majority of people buying flat panels are watching non-HD cable/satellite and SD DVD. They're more than happy with the quality of their non-HD material since they're impressed with the panels' colour brightness (which looks ridiculous to me), screen viewing size and thinness.

You need to think like a regular joe who doesn't visit home theatre forums looking for the best quality.. To these people, good picture quality is good enough. Very few have the desire to spend more money to upgrade to a format that offers a small increase in picture quality.

Hell, the Wii is the biggest selling console now and it's graphics are no better than the XBOX1 or PS2. The law of diminishing returns really takes affect when someone upgrades from SD DVD to HDM.


Yes but there is another factor here. Most people who make a major AV purchase like a $1500 TV, don't make another purchase for at least another year. So there will be some lag time before people start buying players. I think if the price is right, people will start replacing dead DVD players with HD player.

The reason the Wii is selling so well can be summed up in one word. FUN! The damn thing is just way too much fun, and families can play together. Frankly the Wii has put the fun back in gaming.

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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#719
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1/8/08 at 5:16am
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey
Why would you think that? If heavy competition from HD-DVD and is much lower price wasn't enough to drive down BR cost, why should it go down that much went there is no competition?

"But there is competition among the various manufacturers!"
The name brand companies are not going to cutthroat each other and themselves by greatly reducing prices for such a small market that probably hopes to sell another 1-2 million stand-alone units over the next year. When DVD players went to slim margins, the major manufacturers got out. They are going to try to keep the price as high as possible that still allows the format to grow. I think we will be lucky to see a BR player that doesn't have built-in obsolecense under $399 MSRP by Xmas 2008.

Blu-ray player prices will start coming down when Korean and Chinese companies get into the market in a big way. The biggest factor in the price of a consumer electronic product is labor. When a worker in Japan is making $15 an hour, and a working in China doing the same job is making $4 a day....well you get the idea.

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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#720
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1/8/08 at 5:18am
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Re: Breaking News!! Warner is soon to be Blu-Ray Exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan T.
Well, thank God! For the first time I am *slightly* interested in jumping on the HD bandwagon, after this obscene format war completely killed my interest. I have never cared which format won, only that one of them did sooner rather than later.

As to the bellyachers moaning about HD DVDs fate, get over it. You have no one to blame but yourself for buying into the middle of a format war. If only people had had the sense to boycott both formats until the corperate A$$es got their act together the war might have been over a looooooong time ago.

If they had boycotted these formats, there would be no formats to buy into now.

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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