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The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

#121
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

I guess I was wrong about Michael

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I loved the episode and thought it was an excellent finale. Eventhough big things remained screwed up (Templeton and The Sun winning a Pulitzer, Valchek becoming the commissioner), I was glad to see a happy ending for the good guys.
Strangely enough, I didn't care much. While this series is greater than any one character or set thereof, I think my emotional investment has shifted away from the cops since the begining of S4. McNulty's dissapearing act in S4 is one reason but not the only one. Other characters have just been more interesting, I think. So I feel like the irish pub scenes should have resonated more strongly than they did. The whole thing was flat for me.

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I assume Marlo killed tha guy on the corner because he was dissed and/or he still wanted in on the game?
He killed no one, the guys ran away.

I guess that scene answers my question about the origin of Marlo's power; I mean, this guy, presumably unarmed, thought nothing of picking a fight with two armed thugs, just like that on the fly, just because he could.

Marlo is no Stringer -- the game is in his blood (they pretty much showed that literally, him getting a taste again), the only way he is leaving the streets is either in a police cruiser or a body bag. Great send off to the character.

My expectations were a bit higher than the should have been for the finale: I always forget that on this show, things come to a head in the second to last episode or so, and the finale typically just winds down from there.

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H
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#122
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

Great finale. I'm not sure what to make of Marlo's ending. It seems his head has him moving into legitimacy like what Stringer Bell wanted but his heart remains on the street like Avon. Not sure if he was taking in the corner life one last time or if he felt that's where he was going to stay. I'm guessing its the latter.

It looks like I was right on those transitions for Michael and Duquan but it seems there's more to it.

Michael becomes the next Omar
Duquan becomes the next Bubbles
Sydnor becomes the next Lester
Carver looks to be the next Daniels

Is Kima turning into McNulty?
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#123
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

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Sydnor becomes the next Lester
Actually, the scene with Sydnor and Judge Phelan mirrors a scene from the first episode between McNulty and Phelan, with McNulty ignoring the chain of command and going to Phelan behind everyone's back.
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#124
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

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Sydnor becomes the next Lester
Surely you mean McNulty? It seemed to me that his scene with the judge was emulating McNulty's similar scene in the very first episode, the one which set off the whole Barksdale investigation.

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#125
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

Wow, I forgot all about the Phelan scenes from S1. That would be a more logical comparison for Sydnor and McNulty in S1. Now that the series is over I really need to pull out the box sets for another viewing.
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#126
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by R. Kay
Great finale. I think having this show available 'on demand' 6 days in advance hurt the ratings and ultimately killed the show.

I assume Marlo killed tha guy on the corner because he was dissed and/or he still wanted in on the game?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I thought this show was set for a 5 season run when conceived?

As others said, Marlo didn't kill those guys. That scene was as subtle as a sledge hammer. As much as he needs to be out of the game, he can't stay away. It's in his nature. BTW, the "Tommy" that Levy kept wanting to introduce Marlo to had to be Carcetti, right? So he was at a fundraiser for the run for governor? That seemed strange as Carcetti knows who he is, but they kept emphasizing "Tommy." Had me a little confused.

I liked the finale a lot, but only because it wrapped up the shaky serial killer storyline in the best way possible. They got away with it, but people paid the price. No feel good happy ending all around. I have to say the opening scene in Carcetti's office was phenomenal. His disbelief was priceless. And Daniels' rage was awesome.

Loved the elevator with McN. "To be continued.'

I don't know Holadem, I liked the symmetry of the bar scene from the first season. Glad to see Lester, McN and Kima got square.

Greatest feel good moment of the finale - Slim Charles putting a bullet in that coward Cheese's head.
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#127
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

I thought it was a phenomenal ending to a phenomenal show. Good call to the folks who predicted the Dukie/Bubbles connection. I hadn't even thought of that until seeing it on this thread.

One question...did anyone think there was more to the scene when Levy was buttering up Herc? The way he was talking and then invited him over I got the impression he knew Herc was the one that gave up Marlo's number. I guess there was nothing to it, but it crossed my mind.
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#128
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

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I thought it was a phenomenal ending to a phenomenal show.

Absolutely.

If America has produced a finer series than The Wire, let me know!

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One question...did anyone think there was more to the scene when Levy was buttering up Herc? The way he was talking and then invited him over I got the impression he knew Herc was the one that gave up Marlo's number. I guess there was nothing to it, but it crossed my mind.

Ah, but he must also have realized that if Herc hadn't given up the number, then Levy would have had nothing to bargain with, and would have gone to prison. So it all worked out nicely.
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#129
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by PhilipG
Ah, but he must also have realized that if Herc hadn't given up the number, then Levy would have had nothing to bargain with, and would have gone to prison. So it all worked out nicely.
Very true. Thus is the genius of 'The Wire'.
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#130
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

One thing I also forgot to mention was that in true Wire fashion, nobody is all bad or all good (excepting the discussion about Gus and Marlo). McN and Lester screw up with the faked homeless murders and get creamed for it by Carcetti, Rawls, Daniels and Pearlman. They sit on the moral high ground and crucify Lester and Jimmy. To fix it, however, they cut a backroom deal with Rawls to shut up and become state police chief. Pearlman extorts Levy. Carcetti whores himself to be governor. Daniels keeps his mouth shut and resigns over his own dirty past rather than standing up for what's right and becomes a defense attorney, of all things. They all draw the line in different places, but they are all using their own version of what is right or not, and each one is compromising his/her own values to get the end result they want. Wonderfully thought provoking writing.

So all of our characters come out of the mess, some more bloody than others, but they all get out. So who is the only victim? The city of Baltimore "who" gets a future of juked crime stats under Valcheck and Norese. How wonderfully sad.
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#131
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

Here is a great interview with David Simon...

http://www.salon.com/ent/tv/feature/...mon/index.html
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#132
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

It was absolutely heart breaking how Duquan betrayed Prez - even though they both knew how it was playing out - it was sad to see.

I'm fairly satisfied about the endings for most of the individuals except Randy Wagstaff - they really didn't show how he was going to turn out. I know Namond was OK because Bunny and his wife took him in.

I guess the gist of the finale is no matter who comes and goes - the same cycle is played out - just with different people.

Great show - it will be missed.
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#133
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by Charlie Campisi
One thing I also forgot to mention was that in true Wire fashion, nobody is all bad or all good (excepting the discussion about Gus and Marlo). McN and Lester screw up with the faked homeless murders and get creamed for it by Carcetti, Rawls, Daniels and Pearlman. They sit on the moral high ground and crucify Lester and Jimmy. To fix it, however, they cut a backroom deal with Rawls to shut up and become state police chief. Pearlman extorts Levy. Carcetti whores himself to be governor. Daniels keeps his mouth shut and resigns over his own dirty past rather than standing up for what's right and becomes a defense attorney, of all things. They all draw the line in different places, but they are all using their own version of what is right or not, and each one is compromising his/her own values to get the end result they want. Wonderfully thought provoking writing.

So all of our characters come out of the mess, some more bloody than others, but they all get out. So who is the only victim? The city of Baltimore "who" gets a future of juked crime stats under Valcheck and Norese. How wonderfully sad.
Well said...although I'm not sure I agree about Daniels and that "standing up for what's right" would have been the right thing to do. Let's not forget that he had every intention to do so, but then realized how it would implicate most of the people he loved or cared for. But I suppose in the grand scheme and for the city of Baltimore, it wasn't the right thing to do.
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#134
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by ScottH
Here is a great interview with David Simon...

http://www.salon.com/ent/tv/feature/...mon/index.html
Very good read. Thanks for the link!
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#135
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by Jim Rankin
I'm fairly satisfied about the endings for most of the individuals except Randy Wagstaff - they really didn't show how he was going to turn out.

Damn, I just now realized that Randy is Cheese's son.
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#136
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

Great Run - Looking forward to Generation Kill if it's honest.
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#137
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

There's an audio interview with Simon on npr.com that is real good too. Among the interesting tidbits - Omar's leap was based on an actual event by one of the guys on whom Omar is based. He had a choice of "the balcony or the bullets" and jumped out of a 5th floor apartment. He is alive today and suffered only an ankle injury.

Edit to add a link to the NPR interview NPR: David Simon, Unspooling 'The Wire'
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#138
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by Jim Rankin
I guess the gist of the finale is no matter who comes and goes - the same cycle is played out - just with different people.

Great show - it will be missed.

The show Oz, produced by some connected to the Wire, also had a similar theme to its finale.
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"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
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#139
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by ScottH
One question...did anyone think there was more to the scene when Levy was buttering up Herc? The way he was talking and then invited him over I got the impression he knew Herc was the one that gave up Marlo's number. I guess there was nothing to it, but it crossed my mind.
I was thinking that very thing when I was watching that scene. Levy has to know that it was Herc that gave up the number. I guess it was a case of "no harm, no foul" since Levy is going to stay out of jail and Marlo can't connect him or Herc to the leak of the cell phone number.

Lawn Ranger Motto: You're only young once, but you can be always be immature.

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#140
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

Pearlman and Daniels knowingly smiling at each other accross the bench was cute, but is that situation even possible? Isn't there an obvious conflict of interest there?

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#141
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by Holadem
Pearlman and Daniels knowingly smiling at each other accross the bench was cute, but is that situation even possible? Isn't there an obvious conflict of interest there?

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H
There is a conflict of interest, but that is covered in the dialog. Pearlman says something like..."First case of the day and I have to recuse myself."
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#142
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

Oh cool thanks. Didn't even hear that.

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#143
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by Holadem
Oh cool thanks. Didn't even hear that.

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H
Yeah I've actually replayed that montage a few times over since it aired as the music drowned out some of the dialog.
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#144
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

Whew. I just finished the entire run in the space of a few weeks, and S5 in particular in under a week -- yesterday I watched the last 4 eps...

What a ride. I won't repeat thoughts that have already been posted, many of which I agree with, but some observations are that it was interesting to see Daniels choose to leave, rather than swallow juking the stats for 2 quarters and then try to change BPD from within. But I guess he was realistic enough to know that he would never be able to do so, that the new mayor (presumably Campbell) would always hold his Eastern District past over his head. Odd that he became a defence attorney, though, but what else is a former cop going to do, become an ASA? Not likely, with his history with the powers that be. Nice touch, him appearing before his girlfriend and she having to recuse herself

Michael the new Omar and Dukie the new Bubbles -- heartrending in some ways. And Randy stuck in a group home. Ironic that Naimond, who was arguably the most screwed-up of the group at the beginning of S4, is the one who's life is on track, since Colvin took him in.

Chris is the next Weebay, indeed the two were standing in the prison yard together -- taking a life-sentence in the name of loyalty, to an organization that doesn't really exist any more (or at least it's not clear if Marlo will return to his gangsta ways in full running a crew). Odd that we didn't get an appearance from Avon as well. But the funniest "what happened to" must be Poot -- now a shoe salesman!

Omar -- what a way to go, sucker-punched by some kid. And whilst officialdom loses him (tags got switched, the Sun didn't even report his murder), his legend lives on in the street, which is probably all he would have wanted anyway. Just how badass was he, jumped out of sixth storey (at least) window, hobbled around with a broken leg and still took out most of Marlo's muscle. I didn't realise it at the time, but Chris was quite right to keep Omar's taunts from Marlo, being the punk that he really is. Also, nice that Cheese got his comeuppance from Slim Charles. I guess Slim has to take on Joe's mantle in holding together the co-op?

Sydnor is possibly the new McNulty/Freamon combo -- of course, if in the first place Freamon signed on to McNulty's fictitious serial killer, he's just as crazy as Jimmy anyway so saying Sydnor is simply the new Freamon isn't far off anyway. Note that Freamon tried to go around the back door on Davis by shipping the federal charge to the US attorney after the SA had failed the cheque prosecutions.

Carver the next Daniels? Possible: amongst all the cops he seems to have grown the most, learning lessons from Colvin (knowing your community) and maybe Daniels (when he did the right, but unpopular thing by ripping his former partner for beating on the civilian), and also has some skeletons in his closet when he skimmed some seized drug-money along with Herc -- it strikes me that that is the exact same thing that Daniels got caught up in.

Count me one disappointed that Clay Davis got away with it, and is back to his old ways wheeling and dealing, and even gaining influence as Carcetti becomes Governor, and presumably Campbell takes over as Mayor, since they owe him. Also pissed off that Templeton got away with his fiction, and was that actually a Pulitzer that he won (the award ceremony at Columbia)? Whilst Alma got exiled to the boonies and Gus demoted to copy editor. Sheeeeeeeeiittt... and Valchek as Commissioner? Doh!

It was a nice touch to see it confirmed that Freamon was indeed with Sharnice, it was hinted at in S2 but not overt.

Jimmy? It would have been nice to find out where he ended up career-wise, but more important I think was the scene with Beadie, where she appears to have forgiven him his S5 transgressions and presumably they make a life for themselves going forward. His 'wake' was a real hoot, and as noted already, nice to see him and Freamon make peace with Kima, she did the right thing and they don't hold it against her. Also touching to hear the eulogy delivered by Landsman, who doesn't strike me as the guy to say nice things just because it's a eulogy (and he explicitly said so), but paid Jimmy the highest respect in so far as his abilities were concerned.

As an aside, I must say I was somewhat surprised to see how much Jimmy's kids have grown up over the course of the series, I think it's too accelerated, actually (i.e. there isn't enough story-time to account for it, after all Beadie's kids don't seem to have grown as much).
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#145
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

Nice break-down Yee-Ming. Makes me realize how much I miss the show.
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#146
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by ScottH
Makes me realize how much I miss the show.
Yeah, it does. It also reminds me to start rewatching the first four seasons again before the S5 DVD comes out.
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#147
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

Two things....

1. I don't think Carver skimming drug money is the dirt/shame he is carrying, IMO it was that he was a rat for the Deputy Ops in Season 1.

2. I don't think Marlo is a punk at all, IMO Chris didn't tell Marlo that Omar was shitting on his name because Marlo would destroy everything he has gotten/created in trying to get back at Omar. Marlo did walk up to a Corner unarmed and take it from 2 armed dealers.
I have seen Larry David in action, and that man is an animal, and he has to be stopped.
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#148
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by Jeremiah
2. I don't think Marlo is a punk at all, IMO Chris didn't tell Marlo that Omar was shitting on his name because Marlo would destroy everything he has gotten/created in trying to get back at Omar. Marlo did walk up to a Corner unarmed and take it from 2 armed dealers.

I guess that depends on the definition of 'punk' -- I didn't mean it in the sense that he was a coward or weak, certainly not, but more in the sense that he's a hothead, who doesn't think things through. Getting taken at the game was 'just bidniss', after all he only lost money, but going head-to-head with Omar by tortuing and killing Butchie (man, he's heartless!) provoked retaliation by Omar where his muscle was taken out, stashes ripped, again all bad for business, especially since the dead bodies would also provoke a response from the po-lice. And if he'd personally taken to the streets to hunt Omar, as his response in the prison cell upon hearing the insults suggested, he might not have survived an actual encounter with Omar.

In contrast, Prop Joe was prepared to deal with Omar, even pay him off buying back the stash Omar took from them, and wrote off the cost as the price of doing business. This also ties in with the fact that Marlo didn't seem to have much of a code of honour, twisted as the codes that the others live by might be. Heck, even Omar had his -- no civilians get hurt or taken by him.
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#149
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

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no civilians get hurt or taken by him.

And how could you not root for a guy like that?

Studios, caption your internet streams.

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#150
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Re: The Wire: Season Five (see post #1 re: SPOILERS)

Marlo was a punk in every sense of the word. No way around it.
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