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Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

#1
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12/28/07 at 9:06am
  • Joined: October 2004
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So, technology changes so fast! Duh, I know but I paid $1K for this receiver 4 years ago and now it seems to already be outdated with the lack of an HDMI input/output.

So I really like the amp, but since I've bought it I have realized that I don't have much use for the 7.1 and mutiple room capabilities. I really don't have any money to spend on a new receiver so my question is if I should sell my 3803 and try to use that money to get a lesser 5.1 non-dual room capable amplifier?

I guess it comes down to the fact that I'm going to get a Blu-Ray player and missing out on the DTS-HD and True HD uncompressed audio. Is there really that big of a difference in sound quality?

The amp would need to run by Def Tech system: BP2002TL's, 2500 center, and ProMonitor 1000 rears.

Thanks!
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#2
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12/28/07 at 10:10am
  • Joined: January 1999
  • Location: Chicago, IL
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Re: Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

You are likely to only get a few hundred bux for that 3803 and whatever you buy with that money to replace it will simply not be as good.

If you decide to go Blu-Ray, there is a definite advantage to the audio tracks available on the BDs. I myself have a 3803 and have just resorted to using the 5.1 analog outputs from the BR player to "ext analog inputs" on my 3803." This allows me to play the lossless tracks on most BDs and the sound is amazing to say the least.

I would suggest doing that for a while and wait for the pricing on the HDMI receivers to come down in the next year.

Once again, the Bulls have let me down...

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#3
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12/28/07 at 10:50am
  • Joined: October 2004
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Re: Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

Thanks for the reply. So do you just mean running the optical or coax from the player to the 3803? I'm not sure what you mean by analog outputs?

So we can still play the lossless format thru optical or coax audio connection?

I love my 3803 and it stinks that such an expensive piece of equipment doesn't have the necessarily inputs to play HD audio.
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#4
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12/28/07 at 11:14am
  • Joined: January 1999
  • Location: Chicago, IL
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Re: Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

You have to use 6 RCA cables which run from the analog outputs on the BR player to the analog "ext in" inputs on your 3803. It's one cable for each speaker in the 5.1 setup. Check out the back of your Denon and you will see a section of inputs called "EXT IN."

Once again, the Bulls have let me down...

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#5
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12/28/07 at 11:42am
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Re: Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

Ok, thanks again. That makes sense. I had always just understood the digital connections to be a higher quality than the analog.
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#6
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12/28/07 at 11:49am
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Re: Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

No problem.

I used to think that as well, but it's anything but the truth. Some might even say analog is better.

Good luck!

Once again, the Bulls have let me down...

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#7
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12/29/07 at 12:09pm
  • Joined: February 2002
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Re: Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

I didn't know you could do that either! Hacker!

I have a 3805 that I just got a couple years ago too, and I know what frustration the OP is talking about. Unfortunately HDMI was just coming into the picture at the time.

So to be clear, I thought you had to use HDMI, but you can actually use 6 RCA cables? Same as connecting SACD or something, right?

Denon 3805 | Paradigm Monitor 5's front, CC370, ADP150 rear | Mirage BPS400 sub (going strong for 10+ years!)| Toshiba 36" CRT | Toshiba SD DVD player | Tons of DVDs/CDs! | Nad c541i CDP

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#8
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12/29/07 at 1:09pm
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Re: Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_O
I didn't know you could do that either! Hacker!

I have a 3805 that I just got a couple years ago too, and I know what frustration the OP is talking about. Unfortunately HDMI was just coming into the picture at the time.

So to be clear, I thought you had to use HDMI, but you can actually use 6 RCA cables? Same as connecting SACD or something, right?

I have a 3300 and use its analog inputs for my Blu-ray player as suggested by other posters. This same setup can be used for SACD & DVD-A players if you have a player that has analog outputs (Oppo for example).

When I first tried using the 3300's analog input I noticed that the audio was much lower than when using a DVD player connected via optical. After much grief, I finally determined that the 3300's analog input was 4dB lower than all other audio inputs. After I increased the analog input levels to match the optical input levels it sounds great!

Samsung HL-S6188 TV
Onkyo 805 AVR
Samsung P1400 Blu-ray & Oppo 971 DVD Players
DTV HR22 DVR
Infinity Beta 50's Front Speakers, C360 Center Speaker, and Beta 20's Surrounds, Hsu VTF MK 2 Subwoofer w/Turbo, & APC J15 UPS & Power Conditioner

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#9
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12/29/07 at 5:21pm
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Re: Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

Quote:
Originally Posted by sptrout
I have a 3300 and use its analog inputs for my Blu-ray player as suggested by other posters. This same setup can be used for SACD & DVD-A players if you have a player that has analog outputs (Oppo for example).

When I first tried using the 3300's analog input I noticed that the audio was much lower than when using a DVD player connected via optical. After much grief, I finally determined that the 3300's analog input was 4dB lower than all other audio inputs. After I increased the analog input levels to match the optical input levels it sounds great!

I have not had this issue. BR lets you switch tracks in the middle of the movie and the optical 5.1 track is just as loud as the uncompressed track through my analog outputs. I'm sure it's different from receiver to receiver though...

Once again, the Bulls have let me down...

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#10
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12/30/07 at 7:23am
  • Joined: December 2006
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Re: Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry Jonkheer
I have not had this issue. BR lets you switch tracks in the middle of the movie and the optical 5.1 track is just as loud as the uncompressed track through my analog outputs. I'm sure it's different from receiver to receiver though...

You are correct. For some unknown reason, the analog inputs were factory set 4db lower than the other inputs. It had to have been factory set that way because it took me nearly eight years to find the place where I could see, and change, the settings (and the analog inputs were set lower than all the others). FYI - - I see comments from folks on other forum boards nearly everyday complaining about low analog levels so I believe that it is a common problem and not specific to Denon.

Samsung HL-S6188 TV
Onkyo 805 AVR
Samsung P1400 Blu-ray & Oppo 971 DVD Players
DTV HR22 DVR
Infinity Beta 50's Front Speakers, C360 Center Speaker, and Beta 20's Surrounds, Hsu VTF MK 2 Subwoofer w/Turbo, & APC J15 UPS & Power Conditioner

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#11
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12/30/07 at 8:38am
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Re: Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

Quote:
I had always just understood the digital connections to be a higher quality than the analog.

A common misconception - "Digital good", "Analog bad". (Or at least "Digital better") It simply isn't the case.

Digital has yet to truly match the qualities of 35mm or 70mm film. No electronic instrument can match the sound of a first-rate piano or violin.

Digital and analog are simply two methods of recording and delivering data and have no affect on the quality of the data itself. (Shakespeare wrote King Lear with a quill pen - analog. Whoever wrote Ishtar used a computer and a scriptwriting program. The defense rests.)

And by the time it gets to your speakers (and hence your ears) it has been converted to analog. We can't hear or see digital. (Unless you like looking at a Matrix-like screenful of 1s and 0s.)

In the case of the 6.1 analog outputs the DVD player does the digital-to-analog conversion and the receiver simply amplifies the analog signal and sends it to the speakers. In the case of the digital outputs, the DVD player sends the 5.1 or 7.1 channel digital signal to the receiver, which then does its own digital-to-audio conversion and sends the result to the speakers. It is true that some DACs are better than others, and the one in your player may not be as good as the one in your receiver, but you have no real way to test that. And if you have an older receiver and a brand-new Blu Ray or HD-DVD player, odds are the DACs are comparable or that the edge goes to the players.

Quote:
You are correct. For some unknown reason, the analog inputs were factory set 4db lower than the other inputs.

I have a feeling that when these things were designed the assumption was that the incoming signal would already be amplified to some degree, hence the need to lower the input volume. In practice this hasn't turned out to be the case.

Regards,

Joe
My Home Theater

My DVD Collection

My niece, "Miss Goofy Face"
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#12
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1/2/08 at 7:33am
  • Joined: October 2004
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Re: Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

Wow, thanks for all the input!

So the end result is that you can ONLY play the uncompressed (high quality) audio tracks on Blu-Ray disks via an analog connection? So I wouldn't even hook up my optical or coax outputs from the player?

Thank you all!
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#13
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1/2/08 at 8:07am
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Re: Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

is this 6 RCA meathod doable on the ps3? i dont think so but....thanks in advance
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#14
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1/2/08 at 10:57am
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Re: Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarret Eubanks
So, technology changes so fast! Duh, I know but I paid $1K for this receiver 4 years ago and now it seems to already be outdated with the lack of an HDMI input/output.

So I really like the amp, but since I've bought it I have realized that I don't have much use for the 7.1 and mutiple room capabilities. I really don't have any money to spend on a new receiver so my question is if I should sell my 3803 and try to use that money to get a lesser 5.1 non-dual room capable amplifier?

I guess it comes down to the fact that I'm going to get a Blu-Ray player and missing out on the DTS-HD and True HD uncompressed audio. Is there really that big of a difference in sound quality?

The amp would need to run by Def Tech system: BP2002TL's, 2500 center, and ProMonitor 1000 rears.

Thanks!
Panasonic has a Blu-ray player with 7.1 analog outputs.
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#15
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1/2/08 at 11:02am
  • Joined: July 2006
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Re: Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry Jonkheer
No problem.

I used to think that as well, but it's anything but the truth. Some might even say analog is better.

Good luck!
Well it all ends up being analog, the only thing that changes is where the D/A conversion takes place. Say you get the Denon AVR-3806. It has HDMI and can process multichannel uncompressed PCM, but the HD player has to process the bitstream HD audio format. The AVR-3808CI has HD decoders built in, and if paired with an HDMI 1.3 ready HD player can be sent the bitstream HD audio for decoding, so the Decoding and D/A process occurs inside the receiver exclusively in this case. If connected via analog, the Decoding and D/A process occurs inside the HD player. It is all highly relative, as it is almost impossible to audibly tell the difference between DACs anymore as well as the decoding. The audible difference should be slim to none.
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#16
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1/3/08 at 8:38am
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Re: Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

This has all been very helpful. I do have one more quesiton.

So in using my 3803, would I hook up my Blu-Ray player by BOTH analog and digital connections...analog for lossless audio on BR disks and digital for non-HD DVD's?

Thanks!
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#17
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1/3/08 at 1:36pm
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Re: Do I need to replace my Denon 3803??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarret Eubanks
This has all been very helpful. I do have one more quesiton.

So in using my 3803, would I hook up my Blu-Ray player by BOTH analog and digital connections...analog for lossless audio on BR disks and digital for non-HD DVD's?

Thanks!

No need to use both types of connections, I just use the analog ouput from the P1400 to my Denon 3300.

Samsung HL-S6188 TV
Onkyo 805 AVR
Samsung P1400 Blu-ray & Oppo 971 DVD Players
DTV HR22 DVR
Infinity Beta 50's Front Speakers, C360 Center Speaker, and Beta 20's Surrounds, Hsu VTF MK 2 Subwoofer w/Turbo, & APC J15 UPS & Power Conditioner

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