Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

RobertGr, the article you keep citing has almost no relevance to you being ‘correct’ about WB re: classics, as you triumphantly declared in post #254; it is an analyst’s projection for the entire “packaged media” industry in 2008. For all we know, Warner could be flying high, and other studios feeling the heat.

The analyst refers to HDM and a specific move by Wal-Mart as affecting DVD revenues. (Why is Wal-Mart reducing floor space for DVD? Because of the lack of classic releases? Really?) Somehow from that you’ve extrapolated that WB’s classics plan for 2008 not matching your ambition is the sole cause of an industry-wide depressed market which vindicates you. Besides: “Studios that have relied heavily on deeply discounted catalog sales will be negatively impacted in 2008.” Is a DVD dump bin in Wal-Mart where you would typically find a deeply discounted Torchy Blane or Philo Vance box set? Does “heavily relying on…catalog sales” really sound like WB to you? They’re releasing a Batman movie, a Star Wars movie and a Harry Potter movie in 2008. I think they're relying on those releases rather than a box set headlined by Warren William. Not to mention the classics we're talking about make up a very small part of the "catalog" the analyst is referring to.

You’ve declared with certainty that the drop in revenue is due to a lack of releases. So the ensuing logic, as has already been pointed out, is that if WB just released 200 classics last year their revenue would be higher. That’s right, everything released brings in money. Then how about 300 releases? 400? I suppose if they released 500 classics the Time Warner board would be lighting their cohibas with collectible $100,000 bills. They could release every film in their library. Their revenue would be up! Who cares about profitability?

So to sum up, it’s not a softening DVD market leading to fewer releases, it's fewer releases leading to a softening DVD market???? Other than a reduced slate of classics, there are apparently no other factors at work in the decline of DVD sales last year and this year. None. And if there are, it is still the release of 50 titles here or there that is the overriding factor in a billion dollar revenue decline. I’m sorry, but you have a few too many unprovable suppositions to be so steadfastly declaring what you keep declaring.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Peter York - so I guess you are another warner won't do a chat poster. You are blatantly wrong - go back and cite the article - Walmart is not mentioned until the last paragraph or bottom of the article and that is regard to the fact that the so called bargain bins will be cut back meaning studios like MGM will have fewer places to dump discs into the store at 7.99 each. You people are so staunch is you defense of warners that you are even willing to pick and choose comments to suit you. The top part of the article clearly states the the lack of catalog titles being released is part of the decline in sales - poll anyone and if they are honest they will tell you they bought less "classic" warners titles last year why because less were released. Duh!

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

And the big news is that Geroge acutally admits there will be less MGM and RKO titles released because the focus this year is their Warner films - c'mon Robert Crawford so lets see you spin that into - oh well they are releasing titles ain't they who cares if it is only "some MGM and RKO" as George says - duh! Warners is cutting down on their releases bottom line!

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

RobertGR,
I'm done with you as Warner's record in releasing classics needs no further defense from me or anybody else.






Crawdaddy

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Robert I am a big fan of your posts and your work here, and I am a fan of all the other posters. You are right on stopping this back and forth because other things are more important. And as I said I will revisit this the end of this year to see once again that warners continues to cut back. So I am content to move on to other posts and see what the stats are on warners end of the year classic releases! And to peter yoke or whatever as a film and dvd fan hasn't he heard the Warner's THIN MAN BOX sold over 1 million units and let's see what the price per set warners got if it retailed for 59.99. If they even got 30.00 per set that is 30 million dollars - so classic titles do add up especially if the new blockbusters turn into busts.

"We will continue to do some films from MGM and RKO for DVD this year, but our main focus will be on the Warner titles,” Feltenstein said." And that's George's quote by himself! Less classics from MGM and RKO catalog! Duh!

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

But Warner is not mentioned in the article at all.

I took the statement of a "dearth of catalog DVD's" to be a studio-wide situation. It seemed to me that some of the other studios all but gave up on catalog titles. That might have had a bigger impact on the dropoff.

So just how big was Warners' decrease of catalog titles for '07? I am seeing comments that they did not meet a 200 title objective. How far off the mark were they on this? What was the final tally and how does that number compare with '06? And most importantly, why did they not meet this objective? I suspect economic reasons were the case and not a lack of interest on their part in classic titles.

George

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

I really wish someone at Warner would rethink their policy on licensing films out. It is becoming obvious that potentially thousands of films in their catalog won't see the light of day in the coming decade. All of the other studios have no problem licensing their titles to Criterion, so why is WHV so opposed to this? I'm fairly certain that they (Criterion) would be glad to release a Spencer Tracy, Jean Harlow or Norma Shearer collection in their Criterion or Eclipse line along with some of those obscure RKO titles as well. As a Harlow fan, I really don't have any faith that I'll see any of the Harlow films outside of the one's she made with Clark Gable (which'll probably surface in Gable volume 2) or star an ensemble cast. Solo vehicles like Bombshell & Girl from Missouri will simply remain in limbo. With studios and retailers now apparently cutting back on classics, it is probably more imperative than ever that WHV do what they can to get these films out, and another avenue (imho) would be to license them to a company that'll do them justice. I know some here will disagree with me on this, but this is how I feel at this point. I simply want these films out for us to enjoy, not collecting dust in a vault somewhere.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Why should Warner license out? They release more catalog titles than anyone else per year. Criterion is busy enough with titles that actually need their attention.

Ever stop to think that titles might not be on DVD because there's no digital remaster yet that's worth putting on disc? Criterion can't do anything about it. And it's not like they're going to waste time with an old transfer used for laserdisc if it's the only thing around at the moment. They're not going to foot the bill or take up lab time to have new film elements made, either. At least with WB, they're usually restoring films at the same time they're preparing them for video transfers. In this age, there's no reason to waste money on an expensive 1080p (or 2K or 4K) transfer without restoring the original film elements properly first.

Really, the only way to make some people happy would be to rush out bargain discs with old interlaced 1990s transfers with no extras. Which would kill the demand for proper editions.

So far, the only stuff Warner has licensed out are some film excerpts and short films for the Anthology Film Archives/Image Entertainment box set of avant-garde films (Unseen Cinema). In that case, there was no reason for them to be tightfisted on an Oskar Fischinger short subject.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

...And naturally, I would fit this mold, correct?

Fox releases a pretty nice sized number of catalog titles each year, but they still license out to Criterion. WHV has the largest catalog once you throw in MGM & RKO don't they? I just thought it would help quicken things if they would license some of their titles out. Look, I am not proposing anything to radical here am I? I don't know the internal politics of getting these films in our hands or who will be responsible for creating a new master, nor do I really care in the end. It was only a proposal from someone who wants these films out of the vaults and into our collections. Your response made it appear as if I had trampled on sacred ground or something by proposing this.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

In rare cases where this is all the studio can find in order to release a film onto DVD, I'd always take it over never getting the movie at all.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

I for one have great faith that the Harlow films will make it on DVD soon and this quote from Mr. Feltenstein at the Digital Bits last month certainly does not give any reason to be worried about upcoming classic releases:

"All those titles that the studio has said in the past are coming (for example in recent Home Theater Forum chats) are STILL coming, sooner or later. Not the least of what's also coming includes "dozens and dozens" of new-to-DVD classic titles from the other film libraries Warner owns, including older MGM titles and films from RKO, Allied Artists, etc."

Doesn't that sound positive enough? It does to me!

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

My point is that if there's no remaster, there's nothing for Criterion to release or any other second-hand distributor for that matter. Most of the titles Fox and Universal licensed to Criterion had brand new HD masters made from excellent film elements. All of the Paramount titles are, too. Even the Eclipse series uses new transfers. Criterion isn't in a position to pay for expenses that Warner Bros. is supposed to be responsible for.

That's why I think budget releases might be a good idea to just get the titles out. They won't be in the best quality or have extras, but it'll at least be a little better than the laserdiscs (if they even had them). However, WB finally put out Twilight Zone: The Movie on DVD and it was met with nothing but complaints because it was trailer-only.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Thanks for the info Patrick.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Patrick, many of the films Criterion and other labels license are both restored and transferred by them. If licensed to an appropriate company, there would be no need for subpar transfers, as long as the licensor felt they were worth spending the money on. In many cases, a licensing label will release a disc made from an old transfer, simply because they were denied access to elements for a new transfer. Licensing to a quality label, and allowing appropriate access and restoration, is a win-win situation for both: the licensing label releases a quality piece of work, and the licensor receives a fee, a restored element, and a high-definition master that they can exploit after the license has expired, and through their US and foreign television divisions.

Further, I would like to quote our esteemed Robert Harris, from his post on the Lubitsch collection from Criterion, regarding Universal:

"Lacking interest to bring them out themselves, they're licensing.

This is great for everyone.

The normal reaction in the industry would be "If we wanted to bring them out we would. If there was a market for them, we'd release them. Since we find that there is no market, we'll not release."

This ethic is based upon the fear that someone else might release and be successful. Better to not release and not license.

Bravo to Universal for licensing to Criterion!

RAH"

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

I haven't been on here in weeks and you mean to tell me that Warner hasn't made any new annoucements regarding classics??

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Classics announcements seem to be down in general presumably due to economic factors. Fox hasn't updated their Fox Studio Classics website in months.

In the meantime I plan to enjoy Forbidden Hollywood 2 and tomorrow's Gangster 3 set. WHV also has several sets coming out in the next couple of months as well.

Even if the quantity of releases is down, the quality is still high. And frankly, with the economic challenges real life brings I don't mind having a bit of a break in terms of a reduced release schedule. Eventually the cycle will turn and people will be complaining that releases are coming too fast. Ron posted in another thread that patience is in order and I believe he is correct.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

They announced their Dirty Harry releases.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Has anyone else noticed that Volume 3 of the Classic Musicals From the Dream Factory (Hit the Deck/Eleanor Powell/Jane Powell musicals/Kismet etc) has disappeared from Movies Unlimited's website. If you go to Warner's website nothing comes up. Could the 85th press announcement, where they announced the 3rd quarter for a musicals special be true ? Why would they have announced an April 8th release date w/artwork etc and now it has disappeared ?

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

My order is still with DVDPacific. However, I have noticed that Cool Hand Luke has disappeared from several retail sites over the last few days.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

It has not disappeared from Warner's website!

Classic Musicals from the Dream Factory Volume 3 from Warner Home Video on DVD -

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

The individual releases of Kismet and Hit the Deck have vanished from the DVDPacific site.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Didn't they bother notifying you Simon? I have just never had them cancel an order on me before.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

They are still on my pre-order list. I'm just going to leave them there, I imagine DVDpacific will cancel them when the release date passes without them being released.

Warner should issue a press release clarifying whether or not they are coming out.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Update

Now Movies Unlimited just has the Classic Musicals Volume 3 set listed. No individual titles or the Jane Powell double feature or the Eleanor Powell double feature. What's going on ?

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

This happened weeks ago. I can't figure out whats going on! I just wanted to buy the double features. I wish Warner would explain what is going on. I do hope they release these movies separately in the near future!

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

No Harlow or Gable, no care.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

You'll be waiting a little while longer then.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Hoping the Classic Musicals set will not be postponed although the 85th Anniversary press release did suggest it (it was mentioned for 3rd quarter, not the 2nd). I have been counting the days until it comes out since just about every title in it is a great favorite of mine , I really hope Warner would not cancel it on us just 2 weeks prior to release!!! Anyway, my favorite set of the year, no matter when it shows up! Needless to say, the sooner, the better!

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

I woke up this morning and have two emails from DVDPacific saying that my pre-orders have been automatically canceled because the items are discontinued.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

You think?