Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

This is strictly speculation, but it "may" be that Warners is doing at an Ultra-Resolution treatment of This Is the Army. That might explain the delay given the previous UCLA restoration mentioned.

Barrie

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

I personally dont like it when people bash Warner Bros., but I dont think that a few people's rantings on a message board would keep them away if they wanted to do it. They are businessmen and professionals, so I am sure they are used to coming under fire. I would speculate something else is up here.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Lets hope they are running the film "This Is The Army" through their super processing. Wonder how they will release it though... with other Irving Berlin musicals? Another Ronald Regan package? Or WWII musicals? I would hope for the WWII musicals personally... complete with related short subjects on the discs.

Eric

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

I recall that AMC showed what was claimed to be a UCLA restored print of THIS IS THE ARMY back in the 90s. It looked terrible and it was missing at least 10 minutes. This and LIFE WITH FATHER were Jack Warner's personal favorites and I believe that he may have retained his own personal prints--and perhaps even ownership--of them when he left Warners. They seemed to have fallen into pd just after Warner's death in the late 70s.
I'd love to see LIFE WITH FATHER brought out on dvd in an official version: it was huge at the box office--almost the record-breaking equivalent of its Broadway performance and its tv debut in the late 50s on CBS drew extraordinary ratings.
It would be great if these titles came out together in the same package (both are directed by Michael Curtiz) with a feature-length documentary about their Broadway sources, the significance of these properties in the history of WB, the box office-to-pd hell history of the films, and the technical chronology of their respective restoration. Also bios on Jack Warner and Michael Curtiz.
I agree with the assessment of those HTF contributors who have crossed the line from passion to entitlement, and such a documentary proves that such a complex restoration cannot mandate timelines. It would address the "dvd-on-demand" mindset.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Let me add my voice to the chorus of those sympathizing with Warners simply avoiding these chats. THEY are doing all of us a favor by talking to us and letting us know what treats they have in store for us but what do they get in return? A small but very vocal minority of the HTF community throwing hissy fits because Warners delivered 118 classic titles instead of the 150 they were promised (and how many classics did Paramount, Sony or Universal deliver in 2007?), those whining about why forgotten stars like Kay Francis don't have their box sets by now, where's the Jean Harlow set promised, where where where! etc.

As Warners has learned, no good deed goes unpunished.

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I don't know why anyone complains about Universal. Their multi-film collections and Cinema Classics line are fantastic. While they rarely do much for supplements, they consistently have A+ remasters for their films. Even the masters they provide to Criterion look great (Walker and Lubitsch Musicals, most recently).

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

You should really check out every thread regardng Warners product - there are indeed numerous complaints on each of them. There really is not one perfect video company out there - they each have had major missteps, and if anyone is spending hard earned cash they should be able to voice an opinion as long as it is respectful and not a filth laden rant. Even though I might complain about titles that I am waiting to see released I continue to buy Warners product. I am more than sure George Feltenstein can indeed read my complaints and see even though I am complaining about titles still MIA he can read that I continue to buy their product. Did you ever hear the old adage about constructive criticism? The studios also use our thoughts and interest in titles as basis for release of films. You finger pointers complaining about people complaining are doing exactly the same thing.

And speaking about missteps for Warners how about their lack of care on their Tom and Jerry Cartoon releases. You have seen tons of complaints about that, how about their sloppy handling of MAGILLA GORILLA where they left off the theme song from the cartoons? I can betcha there will be tons of bellyaching here about the POPEYE releases being cut down to two discs and the blurb on TVSHOWSONDVD.COM that there is now no sure bet on the entire theatrical run of toons in the POPEYE series being issued. Maybe it is time for some new management over at Warners, I can tell you one thing they really blew this past summer regarding the POPEYE set release. Considering the fact that most of the great POPEYE were made in NYC at the old Fleischer Studios I contacted a top aid to Mayor Bloomberg I had met when I met the Mayor when I did a FOX TV interview for my work on the special edition dvd of Fox's MIRACLE ON 34th STREET and suggested to honor the POPEYE cartoons they should declare the release date of the first official dvd set POPEYE DAY IN NYC. The Mayor's Office was interested, I contacted King Features in NYC they were very interested and loved the idea and I contacted Warners in Calafornia - the message to George Feltenstein never got to him or the person in charge of animation, the Warners legal dept replied to me that they did not release any POPEYE dvd set so I actually e-mailed the cover art to them with the Warner video info on it. I even contacted CNN who would have gotten the set tons of exposure. So a major PR event was handed to Warners and they fumbled it badly. The PR could have really gotten word of the set out there for really no massive cash outlay. I probably could get the whole thing in line again for the second sets release but probably it would be dismissed again. The point of the story Warners has made missteps too and anyone who spends hard earned cash on their product should be able to make a respectful comment without hissy fits from people who feel that complaints should never be addressed to Warners.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

RobertGr, we're talking about making WHV feel welcome in 'our' home after an Admin basically spelled out that if they don't schedule a chat this year it's because of a lack of appreciation posted here (based on issues often beyond their control, per the excerpt from Barrie's article), and you offer another omnibus complaint post. You believe George Feltenstein can take your criticism in the spirit intended but we are being told it's taken in the contrary.

I imagine we would both agree that the execs at the studios are temporary guardians of a rich and valuable legacy, which they should feel obligated to preserve and share, to everyone's benefit. But complaining about the number of releases in a year comparatively or certain previously mentioned titles being in absentia is not constructive criticism and it's beyond speculation (which is done here all the time and can be fun). No covenant between WHV and you has been broken. Feedback on released titles is of course the customer's right. I assume you have detailed these specific complaints before to WHV and/or in threads dedicated to those titles. And it's at the very least debatable whether accusing Warners of "napping" because you don't find any of their announcements a "WOW" is respectful.

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of your enthusiasm and passion. Perhaps it could just use some strategic tempering at times.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

I'm really not sure why Warner would even bother taking these complaints from certain people serious. Sure, every studio has made errors and I'm sure the guys at Warner know what these errors are. I'm sure they're not happy about them but it happens.

Certain people just aren't happy unless they're unhappy about something. I'd bet everything I own that George Feltenstein could go to the house of any of these people and tell them to write down the top 100 films they want Warner to release on DVD. Then in 2009 they could release 99 of those titles and that person wouldn't talk about any of them but instead would bitch and moan about that one missing title.

Having ran a horror site for many years it's amazing how the studios feel about certain online message boards and you really can't blame them. I wouldn't chat with them nor would I release any special information to them, although it is a shame that an entire board gets blamed for a certain group of folks. Certain people throw out B.S. claims, which just get a fire going and soon it's all over the net that Warner hasn't released title X because they don't like the movie or Warner hasn't released title T because (make up your own story).

If Warner can release 100-150 classic titles a year and you can't be happy then perhaps you should try watching a classic that they did release while waiting for them to release that one title you want. Or check out TCM as they play plenty of films to keep you entertained while you wait. But here's a little secret: Not every film ever made is going to be released on VHS, LD, DVD, Blu-Ray or even EXBlu-Ray.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Or unless they make themselves happy by consistently pointing out how much other people are never happy. People are allowed to complain, to voice their displeasures. It's constructive criticism, as Robert said. And as long as people decree that people have no right to be disappointed or are wrong for complaining, you'll never find contentment. Some people just love to complain about complaining.


WB does well at communicating with their public -- their consumers, and trying to get an idea of what the people like and don't like. But as I said above, it's unrealistic to expect that all your patrons are always going to be thrilled with everything you do. If any studio says "I won't chat with them, and I won't release any special information to them," this may sound tough but it's only alienating your base.


Mike, this old chestnut takes me back to our earliest message board talks together in 2002. Just because you're a completist who will "watch any film at any time", this should not be insisted as the creed for everyone else out there to basically "shut their whining mouthes and just be grateful for zillions of other movies out there" which they have no interest in. Not everyone feels the need to watch every film ever made... most fans want what they want and like what they like, and they're entitled to long for those special DVDs to be released of favorite films they specifically want to purchase.

So where are The Bowery Boys?

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

I love Warner - my favorite studio. But you nailed it here on the head, rich.

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They've gotten the respect and appreciation from many of their fans, including me. They've grown to be second to none for me and have shown much consideration and class. But please let's understand too that they need us as much as we need them - moreso, actually, as we're their bread and butter. "No good deed goes unpunished"? I've given them a lot of my money over the years too, y'know. They're doing "us" a favor by chatting --? Believe me when I say I appreciate it, but it doesn't hurt Warner to give everyone a "heads up" in advance and to save their pennies and to eagerly anticipate a great release schedule either. It's always good business sense to be close with your audience and consider them, so it helps Warner just as much as it does us.

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I think you're overestimating our importance in today's video mass market environment. The vast amount of people that buy catalog titles from Wal-Mart don't frequent this forum. If the rest of the studios can get away with selling their product without doing chats and being held accountable by outspoken critics as to why a certain title didn't come out in a specific quarter then why can't Warner?




Crawdaddy

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

I do understand that, Robert. Yet I don't think I was overestimating our importance; it's just that this is my gut reaction when others write that we're so lucky to have this "favor bestowed upon us". I'm saying it doesn't hurt the studio any either - to make their faces known, to extend their friendly hand, if you will -- to give the audience a "heads up". As much as I appreciate the chats, if it wasn't at least somewhat a feather in Warner's cap as opposed to a hinderance to them, I don't think the reps at WB would ever have bothered.

If they don't want to do the chats, fine - makes no major difference to me in the long run, because I'll still be buying whatever I want from their DVD output regardless.... but it won't be as easy for me to designate my cash for a certain anticipated release well in advance or, say, to steer clear from obtaining some other copy of a movie when I now know the Real McCoy is on its way. At the very least, Warner's participation in chats with their consumers only made me like them more and consider them a class act, above and beyond all their stuffy competition. If they don't need that, that's okay too.

I hope you won't take this the wrong way, Robert, but to me there is an obvious protection in favor of Warner here, and I certainly can understand why this is. But I hope some of us may still be able to give our criticisms in along with the praise, too.

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Protection has little to do with it, but I am afraid that we have driven away the last studio that was willing to do yearly chats with us that benefited most of our membership. Furthermore, there is a way to question or even criticize Warner's action or non-action without beating them over the head that they have let us down by not releasing "A" title as promised. Even I have been disppointed because a certain title or actor's films haven't been released and have stated so on this forum, but I hope, I've done so in a way to make my feelings known without giving off the appearance that I didn't appreciate what Warner and their home video division has done for classic filmbuffs such as myself. Just look at the other studios output in classic films, we need to remember that George Feltenstein and his collegues have their own battles to fight within their corporate structure to give us the titles we so desperately crave as we express our desired titles on this site and others throughout the internet.





Crawdaddy

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Have I missed something? Is that now a fact Robert - no chat? That's such a shame.


That's very true; only Fox and Warners seem to be on the ball right now, but I guess that commercial considerations are playing a much larger part in what we get and what we don't get on DVD than, say, 2-3 years ago. Warners in particular seem to be victims of their own past successes in terms of internet criticism and possibly, behind the scenes - I can only guess - all studios are feeling the heat from failures that show red on the balance sheets.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Nothing official as of yet, but I have a few doubts for various reasons I won't reveal here. Furthermore, next weekend is March and Warner has not given Ron a response yet about a chat when they are in a midst of a major promotion campaign. Sometimes, silence can be rather loud in itself.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

All of the posters here are making great points and indeed offering criticism in a very respectful way and that is the way to go! Ron, Robert and team home theater forum have given us this wonderful forum to voice opinions. In my 30 years of collecting Super 8. RCA CED discs, Laserdiscs and now dvd's there has never been a better way to communicate with studios and fellow collectors. I have been a fan of George Felstenstein's since his days at MGM - I drove him crazy when they annouced the widescreen laser of 1961's KING OF KINGS and then postponed it. He was totally kind in telling me the problem at the time was a legal issue with the soundtrack and that the title would be released and it was and I bought the disc immediately. He was also kind enough to tell me that the Dennis Morgan THE DESERT SONG is a priority for the firm - so I guess they are trying to release the title someday. I think Ned Price is a wonderful talent and his team work wonders with the films they control, and they get a plenty of my dough via my support of the dvd's they release. A lot of problems with execs in any business is that they are out of touch with their customers, Warners and NOW Fox are listening and benefitting from building a wonderful relationship of cummunication with their consumers - I firmly believe that Warners can see that even though we are frustrated by the MIA titles we are indeed supporting their discs, if they hear respectful comments and concerns they they should not get themselves in a hissy fit because the best way of solving problems is through communication. Maybe they should do a piece on the webstire sort of like Fox's classic site and have a section "in the pipeline" saying that although there are no definite release dates these titles are indeed in the works for future release. This way they keep us panting for more without holding to a release date.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Geez... go away for a few months and come back to find all of this nonsensical bitching about a chat. Think back guys - when DVDs first came out. Did we have chats? Did we have set in stone timetables? We really never had them but were give "projected" release dates subject to change. Yet it meant the project was on the table and it gave us hope. How many years has it taken some of the titles studios promised to actually street after they mentioned them?

Early in the game there were only limited releases instead of the hundreds coming out each year and sometimes each month. Who has the time and manpower to push out the door every movie in their library and if they did, this would bring up another issue of "quality" and "supliments" others bitch about. It takes money to restore a movie and if you have some obscure movie title a handful are requesting - would the cost outweigh the sales?

Robert - again, I usually don't participate in chats due to technical issues but I have to publicly apologize for some here and their rants. Warner's chats are "gifts" and does a receiver of a gift tell the giver that it sucks or they don't like it? No (at least they shouldn't) but just go on gracefully and correct the problem behind the scenes instead of making one!

I hope the chats can continue on. True, this forum is not that big of a deal to the average Joe who buys DVDs from Wal-Mart, Target, FYI, etc... and this community is only a small slice of consumers. But we do and have had influence in the past as to what comes out so why should a few spoil it for all?

My .02¢ worth...

Eric S. Huffstutler
Richmond, VA

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

I have hope that a chat will present its self, with the changing HDM war over wha a great way to get feedback from us to the studio, i do give my praises for this past year, Blade Runner, Jazz Singer along with my Curses, T & J vol 3, but hands down WB has always been a class act.

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I think anyone can complain especially those waiting for one or two titles and don't care about whatever else is being released. Some people don't care if Warner releases THE WIND, THE CROWD or whatever other great film as long as they get their hands on FRANKENSTEIN 1970 or TROG. They have their right to want this but the problem I have is that anyone, especially the studio, would take these people overly serious or take them as the majority on certain issues. These people aren't buying a lot of classics so naturally they'll never be happy until ATTACK OF THE SNOT MONSTER is released as a SE. With no release of their favorite trash title, they look at Warner as a bad studio and start the lies and rumors.

Anyone who enjoys classic films can look at Warner and see that they do very little wrong in terms of their releases. Everyone is going to be disappointed when their favorite films don't get released but if I was a studio then I'd be more worried about a customer who buys 5-10 classics a month instead of someone who buys 2 or 3 a year. Quite often I notice those complaining about certain matters are those who just buy 2 or 3 a year. They don't care if THE JAZZ SINGERS gets 3 discs and they don't care if Brando, Newman and Cagney sets are released. They don't look at everything great the studio does because they don't buy those releases.

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If you're specifically referring to the chats themselves as the "gifts", I think people should be allowed to comment on how well they went or what could be done to improve upon them, that sort of thing.

I think that if we don't know for certain that Warner isn't going to participate in more chats, we're doing them a disservice by taking the liberty of judging the studio based only on how it appears. I can't read every thread on this site, but I don't think members have been vicious or cruel to WB, at least not from any posts that I have seen.

I don't think of their chats as "gifts", though it's nice that they've made themselves accessible to their fans. As I say, it's every bit as much for their own benefit as it is ours, or at the least it doesn't hurt at all for their business for them to be friendly. I'm not going to run around telling Warner I'm giving them a "gift" each time I plunk money down for one of their box sets.

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I agree with Joe. Well said.

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It would be great if all this effort toward bitching about Warner Bros. were directed towards Paramount, Lionsgate, Disney, and MGM. Paramount didn't release a single classic (other than SEs of Chinatown and To Catch a Thief) in 2007 (thankfully, many were licensed to Criterion). Lionsgate continues to pretend the Republic library doesn't exist. Disney and MGM haven't done a single thing with the ABC Films library (other than simply re-packaging the same bare-bones discs from the early Anchor Bay releases).

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

No, this is a different issue. If you have a problem with the chat format, then that's between you and Ron/Parker (unless WB is dictating the format as a condition of their appearance, which seems unlikely). Warners can only show up and ask what is answered of them. And general/non-committal answers are perfectly legitimate and to be expected when there are so many concerns at play in a particular title's release.

Great, we agree. Because nobody's ever been accused of being "vicious or cruel". Excessive carping and whinging, maybe even misplaced? Yes. If you haven't seen that, then I can't help you. It's out there. While wildly overstating the opposing view's argument to make yourself seem like the only reasonable person is a classic and time-honored debate tactic, I'm sure you would never do that, Joe.

If a gift is giving something voluntarily to show favor toward someone as a gesture, then yeah, it's a 'gift' (although 'gift' does make it sound a tad noble). You buying product is in no way analogous to their appearing for a chat. In one case you pay them for their asset and capital expenditure that went into that asset. In the other, a couple of people voluntarily spend three hours after a work day, once a year, to talk about their plans. I think your impatience over The Bowery Boys is getting to you. Sure, it's essentially a PR move for them, but it's almost completely inconsequential PR. They would still be the preeminent studio for classics without a single chat! Look, they are speaking to a relative minority with the chats. And they come HERE, to the HTF. The hardest of the hardcore. It can very easily be seen as a reward to be able to directly communicate with them. The amount of business WB would have lost over the years by not chatting is infinitesimal-to-zero. It is definitely more of a benefit to us than to them.


This is at the heart of a lot of people's bewilderment I think. Like when someone says "no good deed goes unpunished". If Warners is "protected" (and there are plenty around to make sure they aren't), then they've earned the benefit of the doubt by leading their field.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

So, too, are disappointments to be expected from fans - and any consumer has every right to voice them, if they choose. For my part, I've not stated that I've had any problem with how Warner has answered or "not committed" in any of these chats, but just speaking as devil's advocate here, if someone else does, then that's the way it goes. The reps at WB are big boys and it goes with the territory sometimes, as others here have said. But here again, we may be reacting to something which hasn't even entered their minds at this point.


You say this as though it's some sort of fact. But it's a matter of opinion as to whether or not one feels whinging is "excessive"; the person(s) making the complaint may feel otherwise. Don't get me wrong - I myself have occasionally said "oh boy, here come the complaints again instead of the positives", but still I say, whinge on if you like. I've often thought the most misplaced complaints are over things like "no inserts". I think that's a ridiculous thing to moan about, given all we're getting otherwise ... but obviously, not everyone on the planet will see it as I do, nor are they required to.


All I've done is say what I really feel, no games or tactics.


Not as much as it may come across here. Until they're ready, I've got copies of the films to watch. But if Warner wants my money, it's waiting.


I'm the first to say Warner is the best (I didn't always feel this was the case, mind you, but they've amazed me mightily in the last four years or so). So please don't misunderstand that. I'm also being objective and weighing all sides. Hey, if they don't want to do chats here anymore (and we still don't know for certain this is even the case, I believe) then I'll survive. So, too, will everyone else. All it really amounts to is getting eventual release news early, really.


Thanks, Andrew. So you see, Pete? We can't all agree all of the time.

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I totally appreciate Warners efforts in regards to classic releases. It is undeniable that they do more than any studio when it comes to bringing us quality classic releases. This couldn't be stressed enough. However, I still feel that it's perfectly legitimate to ask why --fill-in-the-blank-- hasn't been released when it was announced as coming years ago at a chat. There are naturally many explanations as to why a particular boxset from a famous actor/actress hasn't shown up, but I don't consider it rude or disrespectful to ask why, nor is it being unfairly critical of Warner imho. I hope this debacle doesn't mean that we'll have to mute all criticism of Warner in order to insure a future chat.

Re: Speculation for Warner Bros. 85th Anniversary Celebration

Agree with above.

I don't agree that WHV has been "protected" from criticism though. Many of their biggest supporters, myself included, have offered constructive criticism in the past some of which has been addressed by the studio. For example, there were complaints about box sets mixing previously released product with new releases. WHV subsequently stopped the practice. On balance though, they do many things right and I'm a happy consumer of their products.

Some of the complaints have bordered on the bizarre and some, particularly during and after the last TV chat, were downright disrespectful. Between having to deal these issues and challenging economic factors which put releases in flux I can readily see why WHV would feel the need to pull back on participating in online chats.

This does not mean the consumer has no way to interact with them though. Writing letters to the studio with your requests/comments is still a very effective way of making your voice heard.

Steve

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The fact Warner have set the standard probably leads to more criticism when they do something someone doesn't appreciate. We know how good they can be, so it is easy to be disappointed when they don't hit that mark.

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Just curious, but in hindsight would you have preferred to have heard nothing from WHV about the Bowery Boys, rather than the poll thread from a few months ago? Or to be mr. cynical devil's advocate (your favorite kind of advocate), was that just valuable free market research for them?

Seeing you in action over at 'Movies', this might as well be your new sig!