Lossless audio made me go low-tech

Re: Lossless audio made me go low-tech

Thanks much for your above posts, Ryan and Patrick H.

Thanks also for your exchange, Patrick S. and PaulDA. I have that Monoprice switcher (with a manufacturer name listed at the Monoprice site of "Lenexpro" even though that does not appear anywhere on the box or in the little instruction pamphlet). It's model number is AT-CW-41.

I've been frustratingly trying to figure out why I've been having difficulties calibrating my Tosh HD-XA2 for a couple of weeks now and this thread has shed some light on what I think are the reasons why. Although I have not read that AVS thread, I am experiencing an attenuation of level in the some of channels hooked up to the Monoprice switcher. Again and per previous posts, the Tosh's speaker level adjustments max out at 0db, precluding one from entirely compensating for the attenuation.

I think my issues have also been compounded by the fact that I've been using Transformers quite a bit to test audio performance and (some copies of) that disc purportedly has/have its/their own issues.

When I can dedicate even more time to the matter, I'll pull my rack forward and crawl back there to confirm which channels I have going through the Monoprice's component video connections. It will also be interesting to see if calibrating my Panasonic DMP-BD10A produces a similar issue depending upon whether its speaker level adjustments provide greater range.

Glad that Monoprice was inexpensive! If anyone needs one to use "as intended/designed," let me know as it's looking like I will not be needing mine after perhaps purchasing this WalMart/Phillips.

Re: Lossless audio made me go low-tech

I finally caved and ordered an HDMI receiver to make it simple! My Marantz should be here in a week or so and I can't wait to finally hear *multi-channel* lossless after living with stereo-lossless since getting into HD.

Re: Lossless audio made me go low-tech

I can vouch for this switcher. Picked up at Walmart yesterday, hooked it up and works like a charm.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=3904683

(Admin note - fixed link)

Re: Lossless audio made me go low-tech

Just wanna be uber clear, Scott: this Philips switch does NOT plug in, right? Not electrically powered?

Re: Lossless audio made me go low-tech

Yes, it's a totally mechanical device, no AC plug required.

It's so low-tech that when you select an input, the "indicator" turns red by simply moving a piece with red and black colors a 1/4 of an inch to show one color over the other color.

Re: Lossless audio made me go low-tech

Yeah, it seems kind of corny with the low-tech buttons and all but it works great.

But now it seems like I have another problem. I am only using 5 speakers for surround, left & right front, center, and left & right surrounds. For my HD-A1, in the speaker output settings I have the subwoofer set to "off". The player then mixes the bass in the front left and rights before sending the signal to the analog outs. For my BD-S300, I have not found any such setting for the player itself. So when it sends the signal through the analog outs no bass is routed to the front right & left. Setting my receiver to subwoofer "off" does no good because it's not getting the bass signal in the first place.

Does anyone with the S300 know if you can set the subwoofer channel to "off" within the player?

Re: Lossless audio made me go low-tech

Good luck with that/hope you get an answer to your SW question, Scott. Sure seems like there should be a menu setting in the player that allows you to turn the sub off/mix the LFE into the mains but I've never had a Sony player.

Picked up the Philips switch Saturday night. $21.59 with tax at WalMart. Remarkable how much easier calibration became. (Watched Transformers Saturday night and now think that my remaining issues with the audio might be with the mix of the film.)

NOW I can start dealing with bass management issues with my Pio 563-A DVD-A / SACD player!

Re: Lossless audio made me go low-tech

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm going to buy the philips soon. I solved my Pio 563-A bass management issues by setting the speaker sizes to small. Everything was roses after.

Many thanks to Paul.S for steering me to this thread. 

As I read through it, I kept having many a "me, too!" moment.

In my crazy mixed-up world, more $$$ = better unit.  But after having been stymied by uneven audio with a nice, powered HD switchbox to accommodate two 5.1 audio sources, I found that dropping down to a manually operated switch stripped away a lot of frustration of why things sounded so wonky ever since I added the second 5.1 source. 

It's too bad the powered unit didn't work out because it accepts easily-programmed IR commands which meant it would automatically switch inputs whenever a particular source unit would be powered up. 

"Low tech" rules, indeed. 

Here is what you're looking, but it's not cheap:
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/zektor-mas7-7-1-channel-audio-switch.html

Luckily, I had a cheap, passive switchbox not-being-used-for-anything at the ready. 

That looks like the perfect unit for such activity, Ed...but if I had the $$$ for something like that, I'd probably just put it towards a new receiver that could handle all my input needs.  It's amazing how much the technology in the hobby has changed since I purchased the receiver I'm using (Sony STR-DE445). 

Wow, an old thread of mine re-surfaces.  I'd advocate saving up for a HDMI-capable receiver (there are so many nice, affordable, choices out there nowadays, not so 2 years ago), and get rid of all that crazy wiring jungle.

I posted this set of photos once I got my new Pioneer SC05 about 4 months ago showing how the wire clutter goes away by using HDMI over the 5.1 wiring requirements from the high-def sources:

www.flickr.com/photos/patcave/sets/72157619490760200/

Oh, I know. I would too. I was mainly showing that such a thing was available, if you're willing to spend the money. People somewhere must be willing to spend the money, for it to even be on the market...........

There's always somebody.  It's just never me. 

Hi I also have went Low Tech using the Philips PH61148 and it has worked fine for me.. I have a Samsung P3600 BD Player and a Denon 1930 DVD Player I use for SACD and DVD-Audio and needed a switch as my Marantz 4001 reciever only has 1 set of 5.1 inputs..

This solution was perfect for me and it cost under 50$ USD for the upgrade to the Losless codecs..I had to buy some cables at RAM :

http://www.ramelectronics.net/audio-video/audio-cables/multichannel-5-1-7-1-cable/budget-series-5-1-audio-cable-55-509-6/prod555096.html


I also bought the Philips switcher on Ebay for like 15 bucks shipped..  On a side not they are only good for switching 3 - 5.1 signals but it is a 4 way switcher but NOT for 5.1 Audio as the 4th switch only has 3 inputs 2 for audio and 1 for video.

Monoprice shows a new HDMI switcher with Toslink and Digital Coax. Its backordered though

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2

I, too, am using the Outlaw 950's analog ins and it sounds great. What's nice about the 950 is that it is one of the few pre/pros that does bass management so I just set my speakers to large in my OPPO BDP-83 set the sub to on and ta-da---HD sound with blu-ray.

With my old Pioneer Elite 47TX receiver, I used the low-tech method of two Radio Shack manual a/v switchers for my SACD and DVD-Audio players. While it was an inexpensive, practical solution, I was quite happy to eliminate a bunch of cabling when I upgraded to an HDMI-capable Elite 94TXH receiver last year. I still have the Sony ES SACD player connected via 5.1 analog cables (it has no HDMI output), but my Oppo 980H player passes DVD-Audio via HDMI, eliminating 12 analog cables and two switch boxes. Between that and all the component video cables I've eliminated, I have quite a large pile of used cables boxed up in my basement. The back of the receiver does not look like a cabling nightmare anymore, either.

I might have continued to use my Outlaw 950, but its display died on me, so I couldn't see what the display said, which made it a pain to know what was going on, so I finally retired the 950 3-4 months ago.  I won't say I'm all that sad to have moved on to something newer with less wiring clutter.  Heh.

 I'll be moving on when my receiver goes Kaputt.  Otherwise, low-tech works for me.

Ditto.

Hmmm...  I spent less on my Yamaha RXV663 (that I use only as an affordable preproc/preamp solution to my old B&K amp) than that glorified switcher.   Of course, I only get 2 HDMI inputs w/ the affordable, previous gen Yammy though -- you can do better in terms of HDMI switching in receivers nowadays for similar $$$ though the quality of certain circuitry might not be better (and could possibly be worse to some extent).

Of course, if I were to do another upgrade, I'd probably be looking at a dedicated preproc/preamp (now that more affordable quality ones seem to be trickling out onto the market), not another receiver to serve that purpose.  Still, I've been happy enough w/ the Yammy and have not actually needed more HDMI inputs yet -- probably because I don't do the paid TV thing and so don't need an extra input for an HD cable/sat box (nor a DVR for more fancy TV viewing and timeshifting)...

_Man_

I didn't go low-tech, but I did recently take a step back from getting multi-channel Dolby TrueHD from both my BD and HD-DVD players to just getting bitstreamed legacy DD and DTS. I recently reroofed and during the process of replacing the decking, one of the roofers took a bad step and put a hole in my living room ceiling about the size of a water heater or a good SVS sub! No equipment got hurt but I had to have the ceiling re-sheetrocked, which meant moving my equipment out... plasma, rack and all. During the reinstall phase I decided to go back to legacy DD and DTS because, while the HD audio formats are vastly superior in every way, I was running both my BD player and HD-DVD player in to my Yamaha RX-V995 receiver via analog.

Anyone who's worked with that model Yamaha knows there is no bass management on the 5 channel inputs so I had to make some internal settings (lowering my main volume and all other channels around 10dB) to adjust the LFE gain +10dB to get it back to where it should be. This solved the problem until I added my BD player which has no onboard level or distance settings like my HD-DVD player does. Now all my levels are off because all the channels on the the BD player output at different levels than the HD-DVD player so I had to go back into the receiver and set it up for the BD player, then set up the HD-DVD player to be around the same volume level on each channel. By the time this was accomplished, the volume knob on my receiver was up to about 80%. I run an external amp so that didn't concern me as much as my next hurdle which is my BFD. While processing, it would eliminate most of the gain I just gave myself so I would end up turning the volume on my sub all the way up to 85 or 90% which I should not have to do (Paradigm Servo 15) just to get back to 80db reference.

After going back and forth with it for close to a year, I finally took the opportunity to just go back to a single digital coax and legacy surround for both players. Now my receiver's volume is about 45% and the sub's volume is 15% and it will just about blow you out of the room, even with the BFD processing. Maybe next year I can afford a new HDMI receiver with HD audio processing.

 I've only been able to make a few lossless vs lossy direct comparisons (SACD of Alison Krauss Live vs DVD is one example) and while I can tell the difference without too much effort when there is no video, once I turn on the video for the concert, I find it far less of a "loss" (pun intentional).  So far, I'm happy to devote my analogue inputs for DVD-A/SACD and live with the lossy/legacy DD/DTS that my PS3 and my HD A2 provide with optical toslink.  When I do make the move to an HDMI equipped receiver, I'll use it accordingly, but I do not buy the "if it ain't lossless, it's crap" argument at all.  Rather, I look at it as "legacy DD/DTS is great and lossless is excellent--and great ain't so bad".

Besides, with children to care for and a relationship to keep in good standing, I don't have the time I used to have as a single guy to devote to getting that last little bit of performance.  And lets face it, the further past forty I get, the less my ears will notice the difference.  When the gear is available to maximize performance, I'll do so, but I don't feel the need to upgrade nearly as much as I used to.  I'll even, sometimes (gasp ;) ) put a movie on in the living room and watch it without anything other than the TV and player (and I NEVER used to do that until a couple of years ago).