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HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

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Face/Off (HD-DVD)

Studio: Paramount Home Video
Rated: R (For intense sequences of strong violence and for strong language)
Aspect Ratio: 2.35:1
HD Encoding: 1080p
HD Video Codec: VC-1
Audio: English 6.1 DTS; English 5.1 Dolby Digital Plus EX; Spanish, French 5.1 Dolby Digital Plus
Subtitles: English, French, Spanish; English SDH+
Time: 140 minutes
Disc Format: 2 SS/DL HD-DVD
Case Style: Dual keep case
Theatrical Release Date: 1997
HD-DVD Release Date: October 30, 2007


After the ho-hum showings of Chinese action director John Woo’s first two American productions, Hard Target and Broken Arrow, I was prepared for a let down with Face/Off. Here Woo had once again teamed with John Travolta as he was riding the wave that only Quentin Tarantino could set off, and Nicholas Cage may or may not be willing to be edgy in his performances. After about thirty minutes into Face/Off, I knew Woo had remembered to do what made him famous in the first place: make the heroes and the villains look cool and show their deep angst, give us action like we’ve never seen before, and have the story culminate in a religious setting with doves flying all over the place. Travolta and Cage also bought into it bringing out manic and impassioned performances.

The story is borderline sci-fi: FBI agent Sean Archer’s (Travolta) son is mistakenly killed by Castor Troy (Cage) in an assassination attempt on Archer. Archer makes it his mission to catch Troy and his brother, Pollux (Alessandro Nivola) in any spectacular fashion necessary. And speaking of spectacular fashion, Troy loves to look good and he loves to be around good looking things: guns, women, etc. As the Troy’s try to escape Archer once and for all, he captures them with Castor almost dying in the process. Intel soon discovers the Troy’s have planted a bomb somewhere in LA that will wipe out a square mile, and the only way Pollux will talk is if he can be reunited with his brother. The problem is, Castor is in a coma. Archer’s aids tell him of a revolutionary process where two people may exchange faces (and haircuts, and voices) so that Archer may wear Castor’s face into the prison where Pollux is to find the location of the bomb.

This plan is fool proof until Castor wakes up missing his darn face, and he subsequently forces the lab to put Archer’s face on him, and then he assumes Archer’s identity and life. Archer and his wife, Eve (Joan Allen) live in a borderline dead relationship with intimacy replaced by the anger and hurt of the loss of their son. Castor, now as Archer, brings some spark back into the Archer house, even going so far as to almost seduce Archer’s teenage daughter. Archer, as Castor, soon escapes the prison and he sets out to catch Castor once and for all, not letting property damage or believability get in the way of a good story!

Although Face/Off seemed fresh and new at the time, I now find it to be more over the top than I originally remember. Maybe it’s the language barrier, but when you compare this picture and its characters to Woo’s masterpiece, The Killer, it comes off as a more successful fraternal twin. The shots are very similar, as are the locales for the shooting, but yet it still works, and if I had to introduce a regular Joe into the world of Woo, this is where I’d start. To start them off with any of Woo’s later Hong Kong pics demands more from a viewer than simply reading the subtitles. Woo’s flair for teeth-clenching, angst ridden characters is in full bloom here, only the stunts and action pieces benefit from a bigger budget. And bigger is not always better, as Woo was able to convey the same themes in Hong Kong, but with less yen. It leaves me to wonder if Paramount told Woo, “We love what you do now here’s a pile of cash to do it bigger.” Face/Off comes in at a verbose 140 minutes, and Woo explains in the commentary to the deleted scenes that he wants his action scenes as long as they can be so the work of the stunt people can be appreciated. That’s all well and good, but you can’t let the picture as a whole suffer to appease the ego. In Woo’s later American films, we have seen the plots and characters become less and less important in the shadow of bigger action pieces (yes, Mission: Impossible II I’m talking to you).

The over the top performances of Travolta and Cage make this picture succeed, and it was great to watch both the actors picking up little traits from each other. They both realize the suspension of disbelief (and, boy, does this picture demand it) rests on their shoulders and both prove willing to do the job. As I said, the plot truly has a sci-fi core with a severe psychological leaning, but it always gets lumped in with action films. Such is the mark of Woo, and we and the picture are just fine with it.


Video:
Note: I am watching this title using a Marantz VP 11-S1 DLP projector, which has a native resolution of 1080p. I am using a Toshiba HD-XA2 HD-DVD player while a Denon 3808CI does the switching and pass through of the video signal. I am utilizing the HDMI capabilities of each piece of equipment. Since the Toshiba XA2 is having technical issues displaying 1080p, it is outputting a 1080i signal and the Marantz is responsible for the scaling to 1080p.

Face/Off is encoded in the VC-1 codec at 1080p with a 2.35:1 aspect ratio. This is a nice looking transfer, with crisp lines and good detail. Fine background detail comes through and edge enhancement was rarely noticed. Colors are good, but they seem to be just slightly toned down. I really expected the scenes in the Walsh Labs to pop more. Flesh tones are accurate, and there is excellent separation of colors without any bleeding. Black levels are good and deep with some good detail in the shadow and darker parts of the image. This appears to be the same transfer from the previous SD-DVD edition: there is some video noise evident from time to time and I noticed minor amounts of dirt throughout the feature. This is a very small complaint to an overall great picture.


Audio:
The Dolby Digital Plus EX soundtrack was attained by the HDMI connection of the Toshiba XA2 to the Denon 3808CI.

The Dolby Digital Plus EX soundtrack is forward heavy through most of the movie, with the surrounds engaging during the action scenes. When they do engage, they provide a good sound field. Fidelity is average producing a somewhat muted high end. There just seems like there should have been more brightness to the ricochets of the bullets and the crack of the explosions, almost making this soundtrack sound dated. Bass effects come alive in the action scenes, obviously, but they do not overshadow the rest of the soundtrack. Voices are marred by the same muffling of the highs and ADR is noticed in a couple scenes. The DTS track is noticeably louder and it provides a better sound field. The issue I had with the muted highs seems to not be quite so bad on the DTS track. Bass effects are also…bigger, is about the best way to describe it. I watched several scenes with the DTS track and I jumped back and forth between it and the DTS track. If I watch this disc again, I believe I will prefer the DTS over the DD+.


Bonus Material:
All of the bonus material is presented in HD (MPEG-4 AVC).

This release comes on two discs and it ports over the material that was on the two disc SD-DVD release from earlier this year:

Disc One
One commentary by Director John Woo and Writers Mike Werb and Michael Colleary, and a second one by just Werb and Colleary: I don’t quite understand why the writers have their own separate and different commentary track as they really don’t tell us much alone as they did with Woo. As such, both commentaries have the participants talking about the usual stuff, and Werb and Colleary come across as a bit geeky at times, not only about the fantastic elements of the story, but to be working with Woo as well.

Deleted Scenes (8:18): These scenes, available with or without the commentary from Woo and the writers, really don’t add much to the film. Woo seems a bit put off by having to edit, but such is life in Hollywood. There is also an alternate ending.

Disc Two
The Light and Dark of Making Face/Off (1:04:17): this is a pretty comprehensive piece that can be watched in parts or all together. Woo, the actors and the crew all contribute and discuss the story, Woo’s style, stunts, effects.

John Woo: A Life In Pictures (26:02):this is a short biographical piece as told by Woo. He talks about his rough childhood and formative years and how this contributed to his films. This also goes into a study of his work as well as interviews with those who have worked extensively with him.

Theatrical Trailer


Conclusions:
This is the Hollywood picture John Woo was destined to make, and I hope he gets back on track with more pictures like it soon. Paramount’s HD-DVD looks and sounds great, highs aside, and there is a great set of extra’s to delve into.

All reviews done on a Marantz VP11S1 1080p DLP projector.

Displays professionally calibrated by Gregg Loewen of Lion AV.

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#2
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Doesn't the Japanese Blu-ray version have a PCM track?

Dan

Go Blu!!

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#3
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Go and buy that then , whydontcha ????

Looking forward to this . I sold my dvd when I heard the rumour several years ago that a special edition was in the works so I haven't seen this in a very long time .
And they got the packaging right too

~M~

I have just two words to say to you..... Shut the f*** up !

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#4
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Looking forward to watching this in HD. Easily my favorite Woo movie (and the only one I want to own) since he left Hong Kong.

Kudo's to them for porting over the extras (and going the extra step in providing them in HD) which should be standard practice for all studios.


Paramount's audio track choices continue to boggle my mind though. Both DD+ and DTS but no lossless? I wonder if they just use a dartboard to make the audio spec decisions on these HD releases.
The Movie Library
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#5
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Nice review....
Club Timobi Wan-Episode II
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#6
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatWahlquist
I was really hoping for a new HD transfer for this edition, but it appears to be an up-convert of the previous SD-DVD edition: there is some video noise evident from time to time and I noticed minor amounts of dirt throughout the feature. This is a very small complaint to an overall great picture.

Guys, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the term upconvert was used to signify a standard def picture converted to 1080, a la "Traffic." Surely that's not the case here, and it is indeed an HD transfer.
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#7
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Can't wait to pick this one up.

"If you're good at something, never do it for free."

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#8
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleddyn Williams
Guys, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the term upconvert was used to signify a standard def picture converted to 1080, a la "Traffic." Surely that's not the case here, and it is indeed an HD transfer.

I believe your right Bleddyn.

Face/Off (HD DVD) would not be an "up-convert of the previous SD-DVD edition", but rather a 1080P authored disc of the same film elements that were used for the SD-DVD edition.

Is that correct Pat?
My Blu-ray / HD DVD / DVD Collection
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#9
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

FYI:

Face / Off - Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD on AVS thread is reporting that the HD DVD version of Face/Off has DNR (Digital Noise Reduction) applied and the Blu-ray disc (Europe/Australia) doesn't.

Picture of Blu-ray sample on top, HD DVD on Bottom.

Paul
My Blu-ray / HD DVD / DVD Collection
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#10
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hillenbrand
I believe your right Bleddyn.

Face/Off (HD DVD) would not be an "up-convert of the previous SD-DVD edition", but rather a 1080P authored disc of the same film elements that were used for the SD-DVD edition.

Is that correct Pat?


You are correct, guys, my bad, and the review has been amended.

All reviews done on a Marantz VP11S1 1080p DLP projector.

Displays professionally calibrated by Gregg Loewen of Lion AV.

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#11
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hillenbrand
FYI:

Face / Off - Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD on AVS thread is reporting that the HD DVD version of Face/Off has DNR (Digital Noise Reduction) applied and the Blu-ray disc (Europe/Australia) doesn't.

Picture of Blu-ray sample on top, HD DVD on Bottom.

Paul

Ugh. Compared with the BD, the HD DVD has a smeared look that seems to lose detail. Look at the fabrick of Travolta's shirt collar in the first example.

So - expensive BD import, possible better picture. Or DNR'd 2-disc set. Bloody hell.
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#12
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

To my eye, it looks like they did too much filtering, and then tried to make up for it with a bunch of edge enhancement. Bad decision. This is not a good looking disc. My review at digitallyobsessed.com:

http://www.digitallyobsessed.com/sho...w.php3?ID=9727

"This movie has warped my fragile little mind."

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#13
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

I thought I had read that the European BD import was edited. The specific scene I recall being mentioned was the scene where Travolta gives his daughter, I believe, the butterfly knife. Does anyone know if the Australian release edited too?
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#14
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Great. More amateur screen shot BS. I have seen no reviews reporting this and a post on AVS should hardly be taken as gospel.

Thomas Eisenmann(Last updated 12/02/08) HD-DVD CollectionBlu-Ray CollectionDVD CollectionToshiba HD-XA2, HD Add-on, Panasonic DMP-BD55KPioneer VSX-94TXH, Panasonic PT-AE 3000U 1080p 252 HDs, 167 BDs, 1560 - DVDs and going down

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#15
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

These HD screenshots from the net should always be taken with the grain of salt, I agree..

Rewind - DVDcompare/Site Administrator
*US PS3 (1080p) - Xbox 360 Elite (HDMI) - Nintendo Wii (Euro) - Sony PSP-2000 - Nintendo DSi
*HD DVD Toshiba XE1 (1080p) - Sony Bravia KDL-40W2000 (1080p) - Yamaha RX-V1800 (HDMI 1.3)

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#16
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppltd
Great. More amateur screen shot BS. I have seen no reviews reporting this and a post on AVS should hardly be taken as gospel.

Then you missed my link to the digitallyObsessed.com review a couple posts up.

I don't have the European BD to compare, though, so I am agnostic about the BD screenshots. The HD DVD screenshot is a pretty accurate presentation of what it looks like on the HD DVD though. I kept focusing on Travolta's beard stubble throughout and it always looked smeary and strange.

"This movie has warped my fragile little mind."

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#17
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

More to the point.
Quote:
Video:
I could hardly have been happier with the picture quality. The high-definition VC-1 mastering retains the film's original 2.35:1 aspect ratio (measuring about 2.23:1 across my screen, given a small degree of overscan), and it maintains a realistic color balance--never too dark, never too bright. I'll admit that while the hues are a trifle muted most of the time and the delineation is a tad soft in spots, the overall effect looks remarkably realistic. An ultraclean screen and mostly deep black levels set off the excellence of the video.
PQ: 9 out of 10
Quote:


Video:

The detail in the foreground and the background is exceptional, just check out the close ups that Woo employs during the stand off in the church towards the end of the film - you can almost count the hairs no Nicholas Cage's eyebrows. Even scenes that are typically a little harder to encode - the boat explosions for example - look really strong on this disc. Edge enhancement aside, Paramount has done a pretty solid job on the visuals for this release.
PQ 4 out of 5

These are just a few example of the PQ reviews. Guess we will trust the one's we like until we get a chance to view it ourselves.

Thomas Eisenmann(Last updated 12/02/08) HD-DVD CollectionBlu-Ray CollectionDVD CollectionToshiba HD-XA2, HD Add-on, Panasonic DMP-BD55KPioneer VSX-94TXH, Panasonic PT-AE 3000U 1080p 252 HDs, 167 BDs, 1560 - DVDs and going down

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#18
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppltd
More to the point.

PQ: 9 out of 10
PQ 4 out of 5

These are just a few example of the PQ reviews. Guess we will trust the one's we like until we get a chance to view it ourselves.

Indeed. In many times, people believe what they want to believe. In this case, many will believe 9/10 and 4/5 ratings more than "B+"...

After all, it´s the "great Paramount" bringing another "holy grail" for us..

Rewind - DVDcompare/Site Administrator
*US PS3 (1080p) - Xbox 360 Elite (HDMI) - Nintendo Wii (Euro) - Sony PSP-2000 - Nintendo DSi
*HD DVD Toshiba XE1 (1080p) - Sony Bravia KDL-40W2000 (1080p) - Yamaha RX-V1800 (HDMI 1.3)

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#19
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
After all, it´s the "great Paramount" bringing another "holy grail" for us..
Of course not, and it was not implied. The post was just to conteract the 'Paramount is bring another dog' to HD comments, nothing more. This is just a very solid catalog release. The sarcasm is a little misplaced, wouldn't you say?

Thomas Eisenmann(Last updated 12/02/08) HD-DVD CollectionBlu-Ray CollectionDVD CollectionToshiba HD-XA2, HD Add-on, Panasonic DMP-BD55KPioneer VSX-94TXH, Panasonic PT-AE 3000U 1080p 252 HDs, 167 BDs, 1560 - DVDs and going down

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#20
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

You said there were no reviews mentioning this. My review did. I recognize that not everyone agrees with me but I call them as I see them.

"This movie has warped my fragile little mind."

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#21
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Zimmer
You said there were no reviews mentioning this. My review did. I recognize that not everyone agrees with me but I call them as I see them.
Never said no reviews mentioned this, only that I had not seen any. The reviews I posted were as a counter point. When I get a chance to watch 'Face-Off' this weekend, I will make up my own mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Zimmer
The HD DVD screenshot is a pretty accurate presentation of what it looks like on the HD DVD though.
Screenshots never accurately portray the presentation. Way too many variables to be even remotely reliable.

And another review:

Quote:
Video:

Even so, 'Face/Off' shows how amazing a catalog title can look in high definition. Simply put, I can't imagine this film looking any better.
PQ: 4.5 out of 5

Thomas Eisenmann(Last updated 12/02/08) HD-DVD CollectionBlu-Ray CollectionDVD CollectionToshiba HD-XA2, HD Add-on, Panasonic DMP-BD55KPioneer VSX-94TXH, Panasonic PT-AE 3000U 1080p 252 HDs, 167 BDs, 1560 - DVDs and going down

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#22
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

I give up. Some people just like to argue for the sake of arguing. When you get the disc, post what you see.

"This movie has warped my fragile little mind."

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#23
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

I'm pretty sure that the HD-DVD is going to look better than the DVD so even if it's not "perfect" it will still be improvement enough for me.

"If you're good at something, never do it for free."

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#24
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Quote:
I'm pretty sure that the HD-DVD is going to look better than the DVD so even if it's not "perfect" it will still be improvement enough for me.

I allueded to something similar in the Robocop thread with respect to HDM reviews. That being you have to really f*ck up a HDM transfer* for it not to be a clear improvement over its SD counterpart, so what it ultimately comes down to is whether you like the film itself enough to upgrade.

What we have here is a bit of an unusual circumstance where two different studios are releasing the same film with two, apparently different, HD transfers. So, I could see where if you really liked the film, and you really wanted the "best" presentation you could pick these nits. Me, personally, I'm not that big enough of a fan of the film itself. I still think it is an interesting situation and one you don't get to see too often in the HDM arena. Just wait until they start double-dipping HDM with more frequency. Oh, God, kill me now!

*Director revisionism aside, of course.
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#25
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Zimmer
I give up. Some people just like to argue for the sake of arguing. When you get the disc, post what you see.
Yes, I can agree with, some do like to argue for the sake of arguing. I suggest you put down the mirror. It is not my fault the majority of reviewers disagree with your assessment, but as I stated above, I will get a chance to view it this weekend and will make my own judgement call.

Thomas Eisenmann(Last updated 12/02/08) HD-DVD CollectionBlu-Ray CollectionDVD CollectionToshiba HD-XA2, HD Add-on, Panasonic DMP-BD55KPioneer VSX-94TXH, Panasonic PT-AE 3000U 1080p 252 HDs, 167 BDs, 1560 - DVDs and going down

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#26
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppltd
The sarcasm is a little misplaced, wouldn't you say?

In the "format war"? Never!

Seriously, I´m sure that this is indeed "solid catalog release", but I really don´t see any reason why Blu-ray-release *couldn´t be* a bit better..

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*US PS3 (1080p) - Xbox 360 Elite (HDMI) - Nintendo Wii (Euro) - Sony PSP-2000 - Nintendo DSi
*HD DVD Toshiba XE1 (1080p) - Sony Bravia KDL-40W2000 (1080p) - Yamaha RX-V1800 (HDMI 1.3)

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#27
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Zimmer
When you get the disc, post what you see.
Last night, I viewed the "Face/Off" HD DVD, projected @ 1080P on a 110" screen.

This was my first viewing of the movie ever and it kept my attention throughout.

(Edit: You would expect to see fine detail in personal features, when "crisp lines and good detail" are present in the "background detail" and that "comes through" beautifully.)

IMHO, many of the scenes, close-ups, medium shots, etc., had the softness mentioned here from "DNR". DNR is obviously filtering the finest details that one would expect to have been present (except for DVD) details that without question would be there, natively inherent from film elements. An HDTV resolution with a DVD look. Obvious.

Great film! Entertaining and for me, a keeper for now, but this leaves me unsatisfied. The disc does not have the full resolution of the film image.

Paul
My Blu-ray / HD DVD / DVD Collection
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#28
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

If you just see softness it's not clear at all DNR is used. Softness can be caused by
- use of a soft film master (shot soft or high generation material with HF detail gone)
- use of a low pass filter (not same as DNR at all) on the transfer
- (over)use of deblocking filters within VC-1 or AVC
- side effect of DNR
If it's just soft but there are no typical DNR artifacts DNR is not likely to be the cause of the softness.
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#29
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michel_Hafner
If you just see softness it's not clear at all DNR is used. Softness can be caused by
- use of a soft film master (shot soft or high generation material with HF detail gone)
- use of a low pass filter (not same as DNR at all) on the transfer
- (over)use of deblocking filters within VC-1 or AVC
- side effect of DNR
If it's just soft but there are no typical DNR artifacts DNR is not likely to be the cause of the softness.
The picture as a whole is not soft. As I said in my last post, crisp lines and good detail are present in the background detail and comes through beautifully. Only the "fine" detail, as within facial features, look soft and DVD like. Not consistent with the overall picture frame that is 1080P quality.

Paul
My Blu-ray / HD DVD / DVD Collection
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#30
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Re: HTF HD-DVD Review: Face/Off

There may be some DNR on the HD DVD version but the BD version has some terrible digital noise/artifacting. And no, thats not film grain which is obvious if you zoom in at all; completely unnatural and patches of artifacts all over. Overall the HD DVD version looks better IMO.
For every shadow, no matter how deep, is threatened by morning light.
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