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B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

#1
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10/25/07 at 10:05am
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There was a short mention of B&K products on another thread. Thought I'd start one here to discuss the latest news of new hardware due early 2008. Are there many B&K fans here? I am looking to finally upgrade and a B&K is on top of the list

According to some details I found on another forum called Hometheaterspot.com, we can expect a new preamp processor. I am still getting up to speed on the specs and nomenclature. One product is the AVR-707 reciever that replaces the AVR-507. Here's the info from CEDIA, it adds ethernet control, USB connectivity, 8 video inputs(component, S-video, 8 optical inputs, coaxial digital audio and analog audio).

The other product is the Reference 70 surround sound processor with 6 HDMI inputs, plus lots of technology! There is mention that support for the new HD audio, TrueHD and DTSHD will be delayed till they get the new Motorola chips, but an upgrade is possible on these new machines.

Shooting for initial release date of January 08 and upgrades for the HD audio later in the year. Not pricing info yet.

A lot of this is new to me as I have a 10 year old Pre-Pro! So much new technology to get up to speed on!

Here's a link to a thread on hometheaterspot: http://www.hometheaterspot.com/fusio...d/137991/tp/2/
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#2
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10/25/07 at 10:53am
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Hi Nelson,

As stated in the other thread, I have the AVR 507, which I had upgraded several months ago. A tremendous receiver when I bought it made absolutely spectacular with the upgrade. My biggest concern is now the upgradeability. This is the main reason I invested in this receiver, aside from the specs.

I read most of the thread you provided via the link and do find it a little disturbing. I have been in talks with B&K every few months to find out their plans. They told me HDMI support was on hold till the technology was stable. As for upgradeability for the receiver, this would likely be via the RS-232 link using an external box for HDMI. The latest conversation did not say that this was ruled out but was probably unlikely. But I'm holding off a bit longer to see what happens.

In regards to the new products mentioned in the thread, to release a product that is not yet complete due to chips is a pretty poor decision. They should wait until all chips are manufactured and utilized. That one poster in the thread trivializes the upgradeablilty when in reality, it is a pain to pack a 60 lb receiver and ship it, particularly if you just bought it. Again, we will have to wait and see.

In the meantime I am making do with the receiver as it sounds fabulous with out the new HD codecs and do not want to give it up just yet.
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#3
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10/25/07 at 12:46pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Gary-

Thanks for chiming in. I figure we should leave that thread on topic!

I agree it would be a pain to have to unplug all those connections to send the unit back to B&K for upgrades.

I am hoping that once I upgrade to the Toshiba HD-A30 or A35 and hook it up via optical or coaxial, the old B&K can still process the audio signal well enough to enjoy till the Reference 70 or 507 is either released, or wait till they they sort out the HDMI issue.

Though I am not sure why I'd want to connect the HDMI from an HD-DVD player to the reciever or pre-pro and then back to the display. I would rather send video directly to the display and audio to the pre-pro. Though I understand in order to take advantage of True HD, it goes via HDMI.

I can understand where you are now. That's tough when one gets a new piece and a new upgraded version is just about to come out. I'm fortunate that my B&K has been performing extremely well, so I never thought of upgrading it till now that we're in the HD age. I hope you continue to enjoy your 507! I'm going to have to hold out and wait till some of the dust settles.
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#4
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10/25/07 at 1:42pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Actally the upgrade was the result of a defect found when I bought the XBox 360. Until then, I had the need for only two component hook ups. Wanting to leave the original Xbox connected, I connected the 360 to the last component input available. It was then I found that the last component hook up was defective, with the with blue connector not working. I called B&K and they were willing to fix the problem free of charge. I would pay for shipping there but they would pay for the return postage. I then asked them about upgrades and what the changes would be. The changes sounded acceptable and for 700 dollars, they would perform the upgrade. However, I was not prepared for the result. The difference was astounding and the interface improved. It was like getting a new receiver. I would recommend it if not for being this late in the stage.

The downmixed HD codecs sound magificent that it's hard to imagine how much better the lossless sound would be in these units. This will be the case with you as well I'm sure. However in the quest for great sound, I am eager to be able to process the HD codecs.

I'm not familiar with the Toshibas (I use the 360 add-on) but if it has analog audio outs, you should be able to decode the codecs on the Toshiba and send the analog audio outs to the amp. Send the HDMI to the TV and you're set. You won't get 7.1 but you will get lossless 5.1. I cannot do that with the setup I have.

Let's use this thread to post updates to future B&K releases and upgradabilities.
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#5
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10/25/07 at 2:53pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Sounds like a plan, this will be the B&K update thread.
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#6
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11/2/07 at 9:07am
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

While we wait to hear of B&K updates, I wanted to toss this question out there. I have just bought an HD-A35 Toshiba HD-DVD player. I got an optical audio cable and connected it to the ancient B&K AVP 4090 processor I have. Actually to the AC-3 Demodulator box as it has the toslink connector that's then connected to the digital audio in on the processor.

The HD-A35 is set to PCM audio out. All I can get is Dolby Pro Logic. DTS mode won't work as I thought the audio was down converted to DTS.

Any one have any clues as to why I'm not getting 5.1 audio? Thanks!

edit: Opps, nevermind, I figured it out. I needed to set the audio output on the Toshiba to bitstream. I had it on PCM. I now have Dolby Digital (AC-3). The level seems a bit lower then before, but I'll adjust setting on the B&K. Amazing, a 10 year old processor is still working to decode audio on a new HD-DVD player!
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#7
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1/10/08 at 11:36am
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Really? I saw a thread over on hometheaterspot that said there would more than likely be a trade-in program offered. I suppose all of this is hearsay/rumor until the new B&K units actually come out.

But I am curious, since I own an AVR-307 receiver, of whether there will be an upgrade path to separates, i.e., trade in an AVR-307 for a ref 70. Maybe my unit is too old for trade-in. But I think it's time for me to move to separates.

Karl

[quote=Gary Seven]

As for upgradeability for the receiver, this would likely be via the RS-232 link using an external box for HDMI. The latest conversation did not say that this was ruled out but was probably unlikely. But I'm holding off a bit longer to see what happens.
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#8
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1/11/08 at 10:48am
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Hey Guys,

I figured it was time for my periodic call to B&K to get the latest on the future of these products. The time frame for release of their new line is sometime in Spring or Summer. It will feature HDMI and ethernet connectivity as we already know. As far as upgradeabilty goes, I inquired in regards to the AVR 507 S2 as that is what I have (after a previous upgrade). Unfortunately I could not get a definitive answer as the speculation is either a trade in or a chassis modifcation. The tech leaned toward the former. I found that interesting as the last talk I had with them made no mention of this. An intersting note by the tech in regards to HDMI is apprently what is currently taking place with this technology is that the ground work is being laid down for future evolvement into 1440P. I was not aware that this was a future goal of HDMI. Of coourse no current TV or appliance currently supports such a thing but according to the tech, this is something that will become a reality at some point. This is the first I've heard of this and there is some info that can be gleaned from the net concerning this. I would expect this to be several years down the road before it is common place in consumer gear, but who knows.
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#9
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1/13/08 at 7:47pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

I've got a Ref 30 processor that's approx. 6 years old. Is this upgradable? I'm glad this thread has started, looking forward to hearing and posting more.
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#10
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4/16/08 at 2:52pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Hey Guys-

It's been a while. I saw a spec sheet for the new B&K REF 70 and AVR707 over at the Home Theater Spot in the B&K section. I don't go there very often, so I am ut of the loop and pretty much still pretty ignorant as to the specs of these new machines from B&K. I downloaded a PDF for each product with info. I gave it a quick glance, it's over my head for now. I need time to get my head around it.

It's light years ahead of my 10 year old B&K stuff! Interesting to read about a possible trade-in. I doubt I qualify!

Anything new from you guys, pricing info or street date? The site I went to had no info yet. My mind has opened to other brands recently, is it worth the kind of money for an AVR-707? I'd like to stick B&K, but why not look at alternatives.

I have B&W Nautilus 804 speakers, so I want to drive them with good stuff.
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#11
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4/17/08 at 8:16am
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Nelson,

Do you have a link for the specs? I looked on HomeTheaterSpot and found nothing. Neither is there anything on the B&K site. I'm losing my patience with B&K and am seriously considering getting a Denon next year.
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#12
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4/17/08 at 8:48am
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Hi Gary!

I should have placed a link there in my post! Sorry about that, here it is: SpoT Exclusive: B&K Reference 70 & AVR707 Product Sheets - HomeTheaterSpot.Com

Gary, I haven't given up on B&K yet. My system is still working great, though not able to process the new sound formats, I can live with it very nicely!

But like you, I am open to consider other brands. Since I have B&W speakers, I read that Rotel is owned by B&W. I know just because both companies have the same ownership doesn't mean their products will work well together! The new B&K options do look good!
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#13
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4/17/08 at 12:29pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Thanks for the link. The specs look impressive... at least on paper.

I gave B&K a call regarding the receiver and the tech provided me with no information since they are still in R&D with this thing. No tentative release date, no approximate price, no upscaling details... nothing. All she told me was it is scheduled to release this year.

In regards to upgrade, she says upgrade options won't be known until six months after product release. That being the case, it looks like it will be a year before I can consider buying this thing. If by that time a new Denon comes out (the successor to the AVR-4308CI model), I may end up going with Denon since they will have had more experience with the latest tech. I guess we have to wait and see.

Looking at the forum you linked to, I too, hope that it is a typo in regards to analog 5.1 outputs when it should be 7.1.
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#14
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4/17/08 at 1:33pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

What kinds of upgrades concern you? Was it the issue with HDMI and the new sound formats? I think one of those threads on the Home Theater Spot mentioned that the first iteration of these new products won't have some of them, but that in a few months after release, they'd give customers an upgrade for that.

Maybe this delayed or unknown release date is such a moving target due to issues like that. Maybe they hope to get all those resolved before they releases a product.

B&K, from what I gather is a small company that produces some very nice higher end equipment. But it doesn't have the resources like a Denon or Sony to get these development issues resolved faster. I rather like the idea of sticking with B&K.

What is it about Denon that you find appealing? I am curious as I am considering other stuff. Maybe even Rotel.

Thanks! And is Gary Seven really your name? As you know from my other posts, I'm a Trek fan.
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#15
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4/18/08 at 8:47am
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

I am concerned on the ability to upgrade. I have the AVR 507, which I upgraded to the S2 for about 800 bucks. This receiver then cost me more than 3000 bucks. I am reluctant to buy something totally different due to this investment. Based on this experience, I am also reluctant to buy the first iteration of this new receiver as I will most likely have to pay another 1000 bucks in the future to upgrade to a version that should be released the first time. If I can upgrade to this new receiver for say 1000 dollars, I would probably go for it as the price of a comparable Denon is 2400 bucks. Then it would be more financially feasible to further upgrade the receiver later on. So I am anxious to know their plans so I can plan accordingly.

I gathered they were a small company due to the direct access you can have with the technicians.

What do I like about the Denon? Well, it has gotten great reviews, with the only complaint I have seen is the fact you get 2 remotes that are apparently not very ergonomic (AVR-4308CI model). This is a low concern for me as I can always buy a harmony. Maybe next years model will address it which it the version I am targetting. I am not a big fan of the other big name players (Sony, Yamaha, Onkyo, Pioneer), at least in the receiver department. Rotel is nice but out of my price range as it would take me into the separates world, which tend to add up when buying a few quality components.

No... Gary Seven is not my real name. I too am a big Trek fan (only the Treks that were actually created by Roddenberry). I appreciate your Trek posts as I read all of them and find them entertaining and informative.

The name have been changed to protect the innocent.
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#16
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4/18/08 at 8:06pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Wow, so if you buy a new B&K Pre-Pro or receiver, you expect to either upgrade it down the road due to a delayed release of some functionality, or future updates for new options or functions.

I am not that up to speed on all the latest on hardware needs, but future upgrades seems hard to predict, unless you know about functionality that is supposed to come down the road.

More intel about B&K's new product plans is a good idea in this case.

But if you go with a Denon or other brand, you don't expect upgradability from those? I suppose the whole unit is just replaced in those cases?

I've got time as I'm in no rush, so I hope we can keep this thread alive and learn all we can about what B&K has in store for us. I'll also be learning all I can about other products. I had not looked at Rotel yet, so I don't know about their price range.

As for Trek, I agree that TOS is the best of the Treks and TNG is still a great series. DS9, while not Roddenberry's, was a good series on it's own merits. I hope I can still make informative posts on Trek!
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#17
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9/12/08 at 8:49am
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Here's a link to their new receiver to be released in a month or so. I believe the pre processor is available.

The AVR 707 is one I have been waiting for. I called and asked about upgrades from previous models, specifically the 507 and nothing definitive yet. I'm pretty sure there will be an upgrade path since this receiver was their latest before the new release but we will have to wait until the beginning of next year (around Jan) to find out.

Here's the link...

B&K Components: High End Audio Equipment Manufacturer : AVR 707 and 705
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#18
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9/13/08 at 10:25am
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Gary-

Thanks for the update on the newest B&K hardware. I've been so out of the loop. So many questions pop up. This being a receiver, it would sure make set up easier then having a separate amp and pre/pro like I currently have. I assume the old story that pre/pros sound better is quickly going away.

I'll do some reading and trying to understand what this new receiver has and can do. Another question arises, I guess so many of the new receivers today want you to use it to control the video too and has HDMI inputs from a DVD player. I am still preferring to set up the HDMI for the video only direct to the monitor. I see I have much to learn.

Do you know the pricing? I took a 10 sec look on-line and I see it in the high $3K range. I guess that's about what one would pay for separates, but I have been totally out of the loop for years!
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#19
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9/16/08 at 10:20am
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

I used to do separates but find that for me at least, the difference in sound is not cost effective. Particularly when dealing with high end compnents such as this new receiver.

There are two types of receivers available in general, a regular stereo receiver and and A/V receiver, the latter being audio/visual. Hence, everything gets plugged in there. I can understand wanting to go the direct route with video connections, but with HDMI, you now have sound and that needs to be decoded for the lossless sound (unless the source can output lossless via optical which the PS3 cannot do).

No doubt this will be expensive that is why I'm interested in seeing what kind of trade-up will be done. I'll have to wait another 4 or 5 months I guess.
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#20
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9/16/08 at 1:15pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Gary- Regarding a trade-up, you mean if you can trade up from your existing B&K? Mine's too old, so I don't have that option!

I agree with you that with an A/V receiver, if I really want to enjoy the new audio options, I have no choice but to get the sound to the receiver. I just need to get a very long cable from the A/V receiver to the display! I enjoy listening to music directly from a CD player too, but I'm feeling like at this level of equipment, the sound has got to be great and separates may not make that big a difference. And it would greatly simplify things.

That's interesting you bring up the PS3. I've begun to consider blu-ray players and the new Sony models look interesting, if I'm going blu, I might as well go with Sony. But I'm still getting up to speed with the technology. As tempting as a PS3 is, I'd prefer a player that does that only and does it well then to also have it play games. Though I know the PS3 is very good at both.

I better start saving.
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#21
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9/17/08 at 9:38am
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

I currently have a Ref 50 and recently sold the PS3 that I was using with optical for a Panasonic bd50 and will be using the analog out for DTS-MA and True HD.

I'm hoping I'll like the results and not be tempted to swap out the B&K for an Integra or another option.
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#22
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2/24/09 at 10:40am
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Bumping thread!

Last weekend some friends came over to do a comparison test of lossless music played from an iPod and then laptop verse well mastered audio CD's by Steve Hoffman and SACD.

Unfortunately, my aging B&K AVP-4090 did not have the proper inputs to get a true multi channel from my friend's SACD player. But we got stereo going from the SACD player. All the other inputs were analog.

So the question pops up again, any insights from any Reference 70 owners?

Thanks!
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#23
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3/10/09 at 12:09pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

I have a B&K 507 s2 and also want to upgrade the sound and if possible to hdmi 1.3. I just got off the phone with B&K and they said there will be no upgrade to the 507. He did say their will be some sort of trade I can do later this year for the 707. If I want hdmi 1.3, dts hd, and dolby true hd what are my options. It sound like the 507 is obsolete. Do I buy a new receiver? What are my options?
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#24
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3/11/09 at 1:24pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

It sounds like there's not going to be an option for HDMI on the 507, which is what I also have. After reading this thread, I'm seriously considering selling it and going back to Denon or even Onkyo considering their pricing. It's a shame because it really was an excellent piece at the time, but to shell out that much money with a promise of upgradability and then find out there's nothing behind it...

The option is either get a BD player that will do the decoding and has analog outs and keep the video on component, wait until B&K is ready to offer us something later this year, or go another direction.

Anyone else thinking class-action, that was a big selling point to me to be able to upgade it to new formats, but at this point, looks like B&K is just leaving us to flap in the wind. They haven't bothered to answer my e-mail I sent weeks ago inquiring about this topic.
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#25
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3/11/09 at 2:21pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Class action? I'm already involved with that regarding Sony and their SXRD TVs. I don't think we are there yet with B&K.

I was going to wait till later this year to see my receiver options. Right now my priority is to upgrade my speakers as a new receiver with lossless support will do little good with my old speakers.

I did call B&K to inquire on the new 707 and upgrade path. Right now, the 707 does not have the codecs necessary for TrueHD and DTS master. They said there would be a free upgrade later when made available. However, it really is not free since you wil have to pay for shipping [to ship your unit back]. So it is best to wait a bit until they are made available with the unit... probably August or September. That actually works for me time frame wise.

Another reason to wait is for upgrade support. The 507 will not support the new H/W required so you will have to purchase a new unit. But the technician I talked to said it was likely that they would offer 507 owners a credit of perhaps, 1000 dollars toward the purchase of a 707. Not definite but it seems definite SOME kind of incentive will be offered. We will just have to wait and see.
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#26
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3/11/09 at 2:23pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Not to sound like I'm trying to defend B&K, but perhaps it just wasn't possible to upgrade that 507 series to the 700 series levels. Perhaps there's a technical hindrance or some kind of architecture within the design of the older model that doesn't allow itself for the kinds of upgrades needed to make the audio upgrades?

When I bought into B&K all those years ago, I had one upgrade done. But I never thought my ancient 4090 could be made to upgrade much beyond what they could do then. There just aren't the necessary connector ports and things like that too. But I can understand the frustration. I realized how far upgrades were possible.

My plans to upgrade to a ref 70 are on hold till the economy improves. From what I've read of it, which is very little, it seems a tad more machine then I might need. I am actually considering Rotel too. It might be less money, though I have not priced them yet.
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#27
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3/11/09 at 2:25pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

Opps, Hi Gary, thanks for your post. I posted at nearly the same time. Waiting till September sounds good to me too.
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#28
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3/11/09 at 3:03pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

I just think it's time for me to get out of the higher end receiver market, at the new prices, even with the "trade-in" a 707 would cost me quite a bit more than the 507. I can get a very respectable receiver that will already handle all of the new formats for less than 1/3 what the 707 would cost. The mainstream manufacturers have been able to process the new audio formats since last year and have also incorporated a lot of new technology, like the automatic room EQ at even their lower price points within their range of models...

I probably shouldn't have even chimed in, I had pretty much made up my mind already. I'm just a little frustrated. I could understand if I was several models behind the current model, but this is just one model removed.
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#29
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3/11/09 at 3:13pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

I can understand your frustratiion totally, and I too may go for another receiver, as the 707 will still be VERY expensive with a trade in. But speakers are my priority now so either way I have to wait a bit before I can even think of getting a new receiver.
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#30
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3/24/09 at 2:30pm
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Re: B&K fans- discuss the latest hardware for 2008

It is very frustrating not to upgrade. It is the reason I bought the B&K at this price point. I was also told there would be a $1000 rebate toward the 700 series and it would cost roughly $4200 from B&K. B&K also said there will be no upgrade at all to the 507. If they cant do what is promised I would rather a less expensive receiver that has what I am looking for. It may not be the same quality but in $1500-$2000 range I should be able to get close. I can not afford the higher price. Great receiver for what is does but is may be time to move on.
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