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Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

#91
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1/8/08 at 1:05am
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

I am still confused on whether to use Bitstream or PCM from my PS3 to this receiver. I have it set to Bitstream right now and I am getting 5.1 surround but the True HD decoder light is not coming on (on the front of the Denon) when I watch "The Reaping" which has dolby true HD. I thought that to let this receiver do the decoding I needed to have it set to bitstream but only the Digital light on the input signal indicators is coming on. Thanks for the input.

edit: Also, one reason I bought this receiver was the optical outputs. I use pioneer wireless headphones for some movie viewing and usually just run an optical cable from my components to the base. I am now running an optical cable from the 3808ci to the base via the 1st optical out on the back but am getting no signal. If I unplug the optical from the receiver and put it directly into the ps3, i then get a signal. Does anyone here know how I can get the optical out to work on the 3808. The light is coming out of it but no signal is being sent.
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#92
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1/9/08 at 2:30pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

simple qestion on denon.

i have had denon for 8 years now starting with 3300 now 3803.
soon, hopefully a 3808.

question i have is on volume display.

it is always a negative number.

usually -22 for normal listening level.

why does it start as a neg number and continue as neg even while getting louder.
and while getting louder the actual number goes lower.

now i know since it is in neg, the number getting lower means closer to zero, or larger.
so why is volume display below zero to start.

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#93
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1/9/08 at 5:31pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Probably not quite right, but 0 dB typically represents unity gain level for the amp's output on the receiver, so less than the amp's "full" power output is denoted with -x dB for the volume level, where x is the value of the amp's power output in terms of decibel level. So there may be positive x values (meaning you are over-driving the amp past its nominal output, and scratching toward its amp headroom limit), most of the time, the volume level will be expressed in terms of a negative decibel value.

In other words, the low-level audio signals (generated from audio channels from the HDM player) are attenuated by the volume level control from its nominal signal level. When you are at the max low-level volume level, that corresponds to a value of 0 dB, the unity gain level for the amp, that's just how it's expressed in audio engineering circles based on the logarithmic math that describes sound levels in terms of decibels.

No one in their right mind listens at the max amp level unless they are aiming for premature deafness. Any level of attenuation of the low-level audio signal is expressed as a value less than zero dB, so that's why the volume levels are typically negative dB values. So you might have volume levels that start from -72 dB and go up the way to 0 dB in increments of 2 dB as the volume level is increased, and it might also go higher, like +12 dB (depends on the amp design and its limits). An easy way to find out the highest volume dB value is to pause the DVD player, and just turn up the amp's volume control and see how high the volume value reaches, but you'll probably hear some hiss from the speakers as you max out the volume as the amp is being required to amplify anything from the signal, but some electronics may introduce the hiss at the noise floor, but some receivers have good silencing protocols to eliminate the hiss if you turn up the volume on a "blank" audio signal.

"Jee-sus, it's like Iwo Jima out there" - Roger Sterling on "Mad Men"
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#94
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1/9/08 at 6:32pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

wow, um. hmm.

i guess i'm still used to old times when volume level started at 0 and on a really good radio could go all the way up as far as 11.

the denon 3308 lowers to -80 and goes up to 1, in .5 increments.

i was talking to someone the other day about my 3803 because i'm trying to sell it and i couldnt explain in simple terms to her why the volume moves in negative numbers

it was basically, 'i don't know"
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#95
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1/9/08 at 7:47pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Sorry, remnants of a EE education from a few decades ago, tried to explain it in layman's terms as much as possible.

"Jee-sus, it's like Iwo Jima out there" - Roger Sterling on "Mad Men"
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#96
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1/9/08 at 9:41pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Hey Guys,

Just joined the Forum. Looks like great info everywhere.

I'm thinking about making the Denon my first avr but im still wondering about something. I get the 7.1 part but is it possible to use it with a 5.1 setup for right now?

Also could someone recommend some speakers for this unit, within the $1k range.

Thanks a lot!!
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#97
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1/10/08 at 1:57pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzfunk
Hey Guys,

Just joined the Forum. Looks like great info everywhere.

I'm thinking about making the Denon my first avr but im still wondering about something. I get the 7.1 part but is it possible to use it with a 5.1 setup for right now?

Also could someone recommend some speakers for this unit, within the $1k range.

Thanks a lot!!
7.1 will support up to 7 speakers and a subwoofer. Some receivers and speakers provide support for biamping. I believe this Denon does support this. You can power two speakers with the extra two channels to double the power going to the two selected speakers, if your speakers also support this capability.

Yes, you can just use 5 speakers and a subwoofer.
"His and Her Room" March Issue 2007 Home Theater Magazine and Audio Video Interiors
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#98
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1/10/08 at 5:42pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Wow! Off topic a bit but it is great to see so many familiar names still posting here. I've been out of the game for a few years after building my dream system.

The old B&K Ref 30 is still working well but I'm ready for an upgrade. I've looked for a decent pre/pro in the 2-3k range but have come up empty with all the features I want.

I too have narrowed my choices to the Dennon 3808 (or 4308), The Elite and the Yamaha. I plan on buying this weekend after completing all my research but the Denon and the Elite are tops on my list. I've never much cared for the sound of the Denon amps but I'll be keeping my MM9000 amp and my Adcom 555's so the amps in recievers are less an issue for me. I like the ability to upgrade the 3808 but I like the look of the Elite more. Since listening in a store is damn near impossible I'll just audition at home and take back the one that comes up short.

I'm also planning on dumping my Samsung HLR-6178W for the new Samsung HL-T6189. Full 1080p here I come!! I was one of the first people to buy the HLR Sammy and got screwed on no 1080p HDMI inputs.

Wish me luck! I'll report back in a week or so.
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#99
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1/11/08 at 11:48am
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
wow, um. hmm.

i guess i'm still used to old times when volume level started at 0 and on a really good radio could go all the way up as far as 11.

the denon 3308 lowers to -80 and goes up to 1, in .5 increments.

i was talking to someone the other day about my 3803 because i'm trying to sell it and i couldnt explain in simple terms to her why the volume moves in negative numbers

it was basically, 'i don't know"
To paraphrase Patrick, it's a geeky way of displaying volume. "0" is set at some arbitrary volume and negative values (-10 dB, etc) are lower volumes than that, meaning the volume has been attentuated (reduced) by that many dB.

Frankly, it's a display either designed by marketing wizards who think geeks are more likely to buy a "dB" display, or it was created by engineers with too little contact with the real world (I say that as an engineer). It's a silly way to show volume for a consumer electronics device. But some companies do it anyway (and I suppose some consumers think it makes them smarter and have better audio to dial in dB than arbitrary units).

Me, I want my volume to adjust in a base-Pi system.

And I was really excited to learn about this receiver until I found it was $1500. I wish that had been noted in Ron's initial overview. That would have saved me the heartbreak of getting revved up for a purchase and then finding it's out of my budget.
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#100
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1/11/08 at 12:41pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by WayTooSmall
I am still confused on whether to use Bitstream or PCM from my PS3 to this receiver. I have it set to Bitstream right now and I am getting 5.1 surround but the True HD decoder light is not coming on (on the front of the Denon) when I watch "The Reaping" which has dolby true HD. I thought that to let this receiver do the decoding I needed to have it set to bitstream but only the Digital light on the input signal indicators is coming on. Thanks for the input.

edit: Also, one reason I bought this receiver was the optical outputs. I use pioneer wireless headphones for some movie viewing and usually just run an optical cable from my components to the base. I am now running an optical cable from the 3808ci to the base via the 1st optical out on the back but am getting no signal. If I unplug the optical from the receiver and put it directly into the ps3, i then get a signal. Does anyone here know how I can get the optical out to work on the 3808. The light is coming out of it but no signal is being sent.


First - You need to have the PS3 connected with an HDMI cable to get the new sound formats.

Second - You must set the PS3 to LPCM over HDMI, not Bitstream. The PS3 will decode the Dolby TruHD and send it as multi channel audio to the receiver. The end result is the same. Lossless multi channel audio.

Thrid - The PS3 (as it stands now) will never send any of the new sound formats (Dolby True HD, DTS-MA) over bitstream and let the receiver decode it. It is not supported by the hardware. This means that through the PS3 you will never see Dolby True HD or DTS-MA on your 3808. You will only see Multi Channel in or whatever.

Fourth - The PS3 cannot currently decode DTS-MA internally at all, so the best you will get is the 1.5Mb DTS core track with is basically the highest bit rate DTS 5.1 track possible. There WILL be an update that will allow the PS3 to decode DTS-MA soon from what insiders are saying.

I hope I cleared things up for you.

Guess what...

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#101
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1/12/08 at 8:17pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Hey I was looking at purchasing a 3808 but can't seem to get one in Central Alberta,Canada so I was looking at the Marantz 7002. Other than 3808 ethernet are these as good, better or what does one think. Does the 7002 pass video as well as the 3808?
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#102
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1/14/08 at 5:12pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Just to let everyone know, I just called tonight and ordered one from Peter. He said the sale was over yesterday but they are going to keep them at the sale price for a while longer since they have gotten such a good response.
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#103
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1/14/08 at 5:26pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

While I am officially starting to start saving for my Denon AVR-3808ci this month. I have a few questions for 3808 owners.
  1. How well is the 3808 decoding lossless format like Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio?
  2. Has there been any problems with the HDMI 1.3 switching?
  3. How good is the internal scaler? Are there any issues with the scaler?
  4. And have there been any issues with the Audyssey Setup?
My plan is to purchase the Denon AVR-3808ci to replace my Yamaha RX-V995 that currently sits in my main HT. I am also planning to upgrade my current Sony BDP-S300 Blu-ray player to the Denon DVD-2500 BT Blu-ray Transport. I want to make sure that the DVD-2500 BT will bitsteam Dolby True HD and DTS-HD MA to the 3808ci. I am going to be so jazzed later this year once I own both peices!

My goal for 2009 is to own both the Denon receiver and blu-ray transport.

1080p High Definition SupporterLossless Audio Supporter Current Library: 221 DVD's / 70 HD-DVD's / 181 Blu-ray's (251 HD Titles)

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#104
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1/14/08 at 6:17pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by BorderBrad
Just to let everyone know, I just called tonight and ordered one from Peter. He said the sale was over yesterday but they are going to keep them at the sale price for a while longer since they have gotten such a good response.

peter, who's that?
is he the guy offering the deal we arent supposed to talk about.
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#105
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1/15/08 at 9:41am
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein
Kevin,

You are in luck!

Yes, through an HDMI connection a status bar appears on your
monitor every time you adjust the volume.

You can also readily rename the outputs. For instance, I changed
SAT/TV to Tivo. I also did it without using the
remote. I simply used the buttons on front of the receiver.

Finally, although I have not hooked my iPod up to the TV, I am
almost 100% certain that it does display iPod cover art. This is
something I remember seeing in the manual.

It looks like you have have no reason not to buy the 3808CI.

Ron,

Will the Denon 3808 display "Tivo" or anything on the Monitor when you change inputs?
Also, will the Denon display the current Audio format (Dolby Digital 5.1, PCM, DTS, etc) on screen?

Thanks,

I'm this close [ ] to ordering today.
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#106
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1/15/08 at 12:33pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Just ordered mine, excited about lossless audio and having one cable to the tv...not to mention not having to constantly switch tv inputs.

Means I'm going to have to re-watch all my BD movies.....shucks!

HT - Denon 3808ci | Elite Pro-111FD | PS3 60gb | Panamax 5300PM | NHT ST4 | NHT SB2 | NHT SC1 | SVS 20-39 | NHT SA3

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#107
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1/16/08 at 10:33am
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_J_D
Just ordered mine, excited about lossless audio and having one cable to the tv...not to mention not having to constantly switch tv inputs.

Means I'm going to have to re-watch all my BD movies.....shucks!

im jealous! i just need my yamaha 2500 to sell and then save a little then i will be abck in the denon camp i was a 3801 owner.

yamaha is very nice but love the warmth of the denon. it warms up the klipsch reference series for me. the yamaha 1800 is very nice too. looking between the 2 is tough desicion
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#108
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1/16/08 at 1:23pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

This receiver doesn't support Dolby Headphone, does it?
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#109
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1/16/08 at 3:22pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

what is dd headphone?

i thought that was something on some dvds as an additional soundtrack
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#110
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1/16/08 at 7:24pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Quote:
This receiver doesn't support Dolby Headphone, does it?

No

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#111
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1/16/08 at 7:33pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Quote:
Will the Denon 3808 display "Tivo" or anything on the Monitor when you change inputs?
Also, will the Denon display the current Audio format (Dolby Digital 5.1, PCM, DTS, etc) on screen?

When you change inputs it does say the current input and surround mode in the area where the volume bar appears.

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#112
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1/16/08 at 7:41pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Quote:
too have narrowed my choices to the Dennon 3808 (or 4308), The Elite and the Yamaha. I plan on buying this weekend after completing all my research but the Denon and the Elite are tops on my list. I've never much cared for the sound of the Denon amps but I'll be keeping my MM9000 amp and my Adcom 555's so the amps in recievers are less an issue for me. I like the ability to upgrade the 3808 but I like the look of the Elite more. Since listening in a store is damn near impossible I'll just audition at home and take back the one that comes up short.

The big differences between the 3808 and the 4308 are wireless networking, HD radio tuner and a second HDMI out. If you can live without them the 3808 is a much better buy. RAF has the 3808 and uses it as a preamp. There are 2 12v triggers on the back that you could use to automate your amp. A consideration for the Denon: it can be upgraded (for a fee) to support Audyssey Pro with Dynamic EQ. This gives it the the equivilent perfomance of the $2000 standalone Audyssey Pro processor. The Dynamic EQ is amazing. I'm not sure if the Pioneer has Ethernet or not.

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#113
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1/16/08 at 7:50pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmoney
im jealous! i just need my yamaha 2500 to sell and then save a little then i will be abck in the denon camp i was a 3801 owner.

yamaha is very nice but love the warmth of the denon. it warms up the klipsch reference series for me. the yamaha 1800 is very nice too. looking between the 2 is tough desicion

I'm excited to get it; couldn't really pass up the deal at 6ave. I guess we'll see how it does, last 3800 series I bought I didn't much care for it...or the remote; however, I wasn't doing HD at the time and that was 2 years ago. My old 2801 is still my favorite receiver; my parents seem to like it

HT - Denon 3808ci | Elite Pro-111FD | PS3 60gb | Panamax 5300PM | NHT ST4 | NHT SB2 | NHT SC1 | SVS 20-39 | NHT SA3

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#114
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1/16/08 at 7:53pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Quote:
  1. How well is the 3808 decoding lossless format like Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio?
  2. Has there been any problems with the HDMI 1.3 switching?
  3. How good is the internal scaler? Are there any issues with the scaler?
  4. And have there been any issues with the Audyssey Setup?
1. I did it just to see if it worked (it did). I do decoding in my players (BD10 and XA2). Based on my other experiences with it I don't see that there would be any issues with quality.
2. I have had no HDMI problems with the exception of my cable box--it took forever to change channels when hooked up through HDMI, so I moved it to component. My DVD, BD and HD DVD player have had no problems.
3. Hard to say. I have it scale my cable signal to 1080p, but don't have it touch the other sources. Its not going to be near as good as a stand alone DVDO (or equivilent).
4. There were some issues that affected some speaker configurations. This was fixed in a FW update. If you check for FW updates before you set it up you should be fine.

Someone earlier mentioned iPods. To get video from your iPod you need the Denon dock ASD-1R. If you purchase a license (under $40) you can stream music over the network from iTunes.

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#115
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1/16/08 at 7:54pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich
When you change inputs it does say the current input and surround mode in the area where the volume bar appears.

Thanks for the answer.... I think I'm about to pull the trigger on the Denon. I went back tonight to listen to the Denon 3808 & Pioneer 92 (didn't have a 94 hooked up) again, and couldn't tell much difference between the 2.
Is there any way you can post a picture showing the input and surround mode on the monitor?

Thanks,
Jay.
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#116
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1/16/08 at 8:01pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS
I too have narrowed my choices to the Dennon 3808 (or 4308), The Elite and the Yamaha. I plan on buying this weekend after completing all my research but the Denon and the Elite are tops on my list. I've never much cared for the sound of the Denon amps but I'll be keeping my MM9000 amp and my Adcom 555's so the amps in recievers are less an issue for me. I like the ability to upgrade the 3808 but I like the look of the Elite more. Since listening in a store is damn near impossible I'll just audition at home and take back the one that comes up short.

A friend of mine just ordered the Denon 3808 and will continue to use his Adcom 555 for the fronts... I'll let you know after this weekend how that goes...
..if it goes well and I like the Denon, I'll probably get one myself to replace my 10 year old Denon 3200, but keep my Adcom 545 amp.
For what its worth, I couldn't tell much difference between the Denon 3808 & Pioneer Elite earlier tonight during some demo time.
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#117
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1/16/08 at 9:01pm
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

The remote for the 3808 is no better than any prior remotes... I'll try to take a pic of the on screen display, won't be until later tomorrow as I have to work late tonight.

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#118
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1/17/08 at 6:47am
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Quote:
The big differences between the 3808 and the 4308 are wireless networking, HD radio tuner and a second HDMI out.

I was thinking that the 3808 had HD radio, but I guess I could live without it.

Quote:
A consideration for the Denon: it can be upgraded (for a fee) to support Audyssey Pro with Dynamic EQ. This gives it the the equivilent perfomance of the $2000 standalone Audyssey Pro processor. The Dynamic EQ is amazing.

How much is the upgrade for the 3808ci ? Is it upgraded over the ethernet connection or off of a disc?

I am saving for the 3808ci but have I been considering stepping up to the 4308ci. The biggest reasons are the 3808 basically does what I need it to do and the extra cost of the 4308. And by not getting the 4308 I could take that money and put that down on a DVD-2500 BTci Blu-ray transport.

The Pioneer Elite VSX-94 TXH has a ethernet port but I am not sure if it can be updated via the ethernet port or not. The Pioneer Elite VSX-92 TXH does not seem to have an ethernet port so I beleive that the 94 may be the only Pioneer Elite that has the ethernet. I seriously considered the Pioneer Elite VSX-94 TXH when I was shopping for my next receiver, but the Denon won.

1080p High Definition SupporterLossless Audio Supporter Current Library: 221 DVD's / 70 HD-DVD's / 181 Blu-ray's (251 HD Titles)

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#119
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1/17/08 at 9:06am
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moritz


How much is the upgrade for the 3808ci ? Is it upgraded over the ethernet connection or off of a disc?


The Pioneer Elite VSX-94 TXH has a ethernet port but I am not sure if it can be updated via the ethernet port or not. The Pioneer Elite VSX-92 TXH does not seem to have an ethernet port so I beleive that the 94 may be the only Pioneer Elite that has the ethernet. I seriously considered the Pioneer Elite VSX-94 TXH when I was shopping for my next receiver, but the Denon won.

I think I remember reading that someone paid $300 for the license (key) for Audyssey Pro.

Why/How did the Denon win out? I'm looking at this and the Pioneer Elite and having a difficult time making a decision.
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#120
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1/17/08 at 10:33am
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Re: Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview

can someone explain to me what is the difference between lossless tueHD and other HD audio from reg. DD and DTS. I mean what is heard in the differences? cause i already feel BD audio is supierior to SD dvd. thanks for the help. I just wanna make sure the upgrade is justified
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