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Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

#1
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10/16/07 at 8:45am
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While the film is surely not everyone's favorite (I personally dig it, but I know I'm not the consensus), what's really important about this release is that it will be Warner's first BD release with their Picture-in-Picture In-Movie Experience feature commentary.

Now, here's the fun part - despite reports to the contrary (such as in the linked article), there is strong rumor that Warner has figured out a way to do the PiP without needing Java 1.1, meaning that ALL players on the market will be able to play the feature, paving the way for other big titles that have been HD-DVD exclusive for this reason - Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, The Matrix Trilogy, etc.

It'll be interesting to see how this first release does....
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#2
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10/16/07 at 9:07am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

I'll probably pick this up. I'm a true heretic--this film is my favorite of the series. I like its lack of sentimentality.

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#3
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10/16/07 at 9:36am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

Apparently the BD version will have a TrueHD track and an exclusive commentary track.

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#4
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10/16/07 at 9:42am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

I believe the TrueHD is a misprint, and the DD+ logo only refers to the HD-DVD.
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#5
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10/16/07 at 9:45am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

Brandon thanks for the heads-up. This is certainly good news. Hopefully the other IME titles follow soon. Namely Batman Begins!!

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#6
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10/16/07 at 10:35am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

Hopefully not, since they are adding new features to the Blu-ray version they could easily add a TrueHD or PCM track since it's not the same mastering.

However, this is WB we're talking about!

Go Blu!!

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#7
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10/16/07 at 10:39am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

Nice! I actually liked this film as well (especially the, um, "throwback" ending ). And I never got around to buying the SD DVD.

Adding to the want list. . .

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#8
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10/17/07 at 4:56am
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Terminator 3 Blu-ray - IME included

http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=66147

It seems that BD-J (1.1) is now (finally!) ready. Let´s hope that things are going to be equal from now on (when it comes to extras) e.g. by Warner..

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#9
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10/17/07 at 9:28am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

I'll pick this title up for "completionist" reasons for my Terminator series. Fingers crossed for TrueHD, though WB is *really* lame with lossless audio regardless of format so I'm pessimistic about them going the extra mile (extra mile for them, that is. Lossless audio seems to be standard-fare for Sony, MGM, Fox, and Disney).
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#10
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10/17/07 at 10:35am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

I'm down with this. I really enjoyed this movie, and I don't feel guilty about it at all. I love the "rip your guts out" ending.
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#11
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10/17/07 at 12:32pm
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

I hate to say it, but this film was mainly a joke compared to the parts 1-2.. Some popcorn-entertainment, but nothing more. Thank you Jonathan Mostow, you basically ruined the series.

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#12
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10/17/07 at 1:06pm
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

I enjoyed it (though not near as much as the first 2). I wasn't really impressed with the transfer on the HD DVD (a movie like this screams for a really top-notch transfer), and this is also a title that need lossless, or at least 1.5 Mbps, for the truck chase alone.

There was a rumor they were going to have a PCM track on this one, but that looks to be out the window.
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#13
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10/17/07 at 1:59pm
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

I thought Warner was putting this out with IME in anticipation of BD-J 1.1 support, not because they've figured some way around it?
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#14
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10/18/07 at 1:56am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

All I know is that this isn't using 1.1 profile. How they're doing it is what I'm not sure of. It could be a second encode. The rumor I'm hearing is that it's using a subtitle track.

EDIT: Warner Getting More Blu, by Chris Tribbey (Home Media Magazine)

"Daniel Silverberg, VP of HD media development for the studio, noted that the T3 Blu-ray is not Blu-ray profile 1.1, the mandated programming required for all Blu-ray players introduced after Oct. 31."
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#15
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10/18/07 at 5:45am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
"Daniel Silverberg, VP of HD media development for the studio, noted that the T3 Blu-ray is not Blu-ray profile 1.1, the mandated programming required for all Blu-ray players introduced after Oct. 31."

Damn. Neverending BD-J story. If there´s one thing that´s really annoying me with Blu-ray is their BD-J fiasco. GET IT DONE and make an official announcement after that. Not these vague "T3 has IME"-press releases IF it´s not the proper BD-J feature..

I was patience, but..

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#16
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10/18/07 at 6:41am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

How can they put PIP video in a subtitle track?
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#17
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10/18/07 at 8:49am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

Not sure. However, subtitles have been used on DVD for trivia tracks with more varied graphics (Spider-Man 2), as well as limited video content when accompanying a commentary track (original Ghostbusters release, UHF).
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#18
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10/18/07 at 9:36am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

According to that article, this isn't the first BD to use existing technology to do some sort of PIP. I suppose theoretically it could have the entire film on the disc twice, once with the superimposed "PIP."

Dunno if there's room for that with a good bitrate, though.

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#19
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10/18/07 at 9:49am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

That could work with enough bits on the disc, but you've basically dropped down to a BD25 as you'd need to run everything for the feature film (all sountracks) twice since the two video streams are not synchronous.

Also, you wouldn't be able to turn PIP on/off during disc-play... since it would basically stop your whole data stream and start playing from a different part of the disc.
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#20
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10/18/07 at 10:10am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Silverman
According to that article, this isn't the first BD to use existing technology to do some sort of PIP. I suppose theoretically it could have the entire film on the disc twice, once with the superimposed "PIP."

Dunno if there's room for that with a good bitrate, though.
Well, they're just going to use the HD DVD encode, so if they use a BD 50 it should be easily do-able.

I don't get why they bothered holding up all these releases, then if they've decided to do the double-encode route. I guess it could be there's no hardware to test Java 1.1 on yet, or they just want to cater to early adopters for a while (though those with PS3s are likely in the clear anyway).

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#21
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10/18/07 at 10:14am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

Quote:
I don't get why they bothered holding up all these releases, then if they've decided to do the double-encode route.

I suppose it is possible that there are some HD DVD encodes that, if done twice, wouldn't fit on a BD-50 along with all the other special features, etc. So, whereever possible, if Warner wants to go this route, I say do it. I don't care how it is implemented if the end result is the same.
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#22
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10/18/07 at 10:26am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

But if you can't turn the PIP feature on/off while watching the movie during disc-play, then it's *not* the same result.
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#23
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10/18/07 at 10:44am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

Quote:
But if you can't turn the PIP feature on/off while watching the movie during disc-play, then it's *not* the same result.

Well, you have a point there. It may be close enough of an approximation that those who are BD only care more that they have the film available to them finally.

I'd venture a guess that between there not being enough room for two encodes on a BD-50 for some HD DVD IME discs and Profile 1.1 coming to fruition eventually, we probably won't see too many of these compromises. As far as Terminator 3 is concerned, Warner Bros. probably knows that they've got a golden HDM double-dip opportunity coming up with T4 shortly, so they might as well get this out to the BD crowd now.
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#24
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10/18/07 at 11:02am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

Quote:
I don't get why they bothered holding up all these releases, then if they've decided to do the double-encode route.
They originally figured they would be using BD-J soon. Or perhaps they didn't think up the trick they are using now immediately?
Or they finally got desperate waiting for the BD-J solution and decided to bring out the BD version anyway.

Anyway, it's a good decision to release all those BD versions. Holiday season, and all that.


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#25
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10/18/07 at 11:19am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

It's good there thinking about the customer here. After all the waiting and promises the releases seem to be on track to come out. I own this one on HD DVD allready, but, if there's Bluray exclusive features or a better transfer I may have to d-dip on this. This is definately good news. Here's to hoping more of it's kind keeps coming.

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#26
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10/18/07 at 11:20am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
How can they put PIP video in a subtitle track?

The subtitle layer on BD is capable of displaying full graphics over the entire screen. They may be imbedding a long chain of JPEGs (or similar graphics files) at 24fps in order to mimic an MPEG stream. I don't know how feasible or likely this is, but in theory it is possible.
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#27
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10/18/07 at 11:26am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

Quote:
It's good there thinking about the customer here. After all the waiting and promises the releases seem to be on track to come out. I own this one on HD DVD allready, but, if there's Bluray exclusive features or a better transfer I may have to d-dip on this. This is definately good news. Here's to hoping more of it's kind keeps coming.

WB has consistently ported the same video compressed/authored files for HD DVD/BD companion titles (though featureset and audio sometimes differ).
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#28
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10/22/07 at 9:30am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

"Warner Sets Record Straight on 'T3' Blu-ray PIP Track":

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...PIP_Track/1090
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#29
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10/22/07 at 9:41am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

Thanks for confirming the methodology!

This is a temporay fix and not an ideal solution in that it effectively reduces the bit-space for the feature film to 1/2 of BD's capacity (ie, a 50GB presentation is effectivly only a 25GB presentation, more or less), because it doubles the bits requried for the feature 1080p film since both versions are included as distinct video files.

Also, users cannot turn the PIP on/off during disc play as they can with a real PIP window, so the feature is not as "transparent" as WB's comments would lead one to believe.

It's an ok first-step to real PIP java 1.1 functionality. But not a long-term fix. 1.1 can't get here soon enough (slap on the wrist of the BD consortia for not having 1.1 ready and required in hardware at launch).
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#30
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10/22/07 at 9:41am
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Re: Warner to release Terminator 3 on BD 12/4 - with In-Movie Experience

Second encode via seamless branching makes sense. I guess the rumor I heard about the subtitle track was wrong, but it's also not a full second encode. Interesting. (After all, the BD does have 20GB more to work with).
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