Home Theater Forum  ›  Forums  ›  Entertainment and Media  ›  SD DVD - Film and Documentary  ›  Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection
Forum Nav More Forums | All New Posts | New Thread

Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

#1
Rating: 0
9/28/07 at 2:33pm
  • Joined: February 2006
  • Location: The Atlantic Puppy-Grinding Company
  • Post Count: 574
This just in from Bill Hunt's daily "Digital Bits" update:

Quote:
Also, our friend Brian over at the MTV Movies Blog e-mailed us this morning to report that director Wes Anderson has informed them that a new Bottle Rocket special edition DVD release is coming from Criterion, presumably sometime in 2008. Good news indeed (thanks for sending it, Brian)!

Hell yeah. You can also read the original MTV article here.

Too bad The Darjeeling Limited likely won't be getting the Criterion treatment, though, being released through Fox Searchlight and all.
Export to Wiki
#2
Rating: 0
9/28/07 at 4:31pm
  • Joined: November 2004
  • Location: The basement of the FBI building
  • Post Count: 12,736

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

Good news! I assume we'll see this the same day as The Darjeeling Limited comes out on DVD (whether Fox or Criterion is distributing it).
Export to Wiki
#3
Rating: 0
9/28/07 at 6:07pm
  • Joined: April 2005
  • Location: Portland, OR
  • Post Count: 934

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshEH

Too bad The Darjeeling Limited likely won't be getting the Criterion treatment, though, being released through Fox Searchlight and all.
That doesn't mean anything since Criterion still maintains a good working relationship with Fox.

Fun trivia!: Unless American Emperical bought the film back, this would be the first Sony title that Criterion has released since their laser days.
Export to Wiki
#4
Rating: 0
9/28/07 at 6:52pm
  • Joined: June 2001
  • Post Count: 2,039

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

Yeah, Fox is Criterion-friendly.

I'm still gonna be a bit skeptical about this until it's officially announced.

Richard Linklater talked about wanting Criterion to release "Before Sunrise", "Before Sunset" and "subUrbia" in the press even though Warner Bros. is similarly opposed to licensing their films. Similarly, Darren Aronofsky had people on his MySpace hounding Criterion even though it was a Warner Bros. title and thus unable to be licensed to Criterion.

Corin Nemic also got the ball rolling with Shout! Factory for a DVD release of "Parker Lewis Can't Lose" but Sony put the kibosh on it.

The truth is, Wes Anderson and the people at Criterion may be willing to do it but Sony might put their foot down and that's would obviously be the end of the line.

One way I can see this happening though would be if it was actually a Sony-manufactured and -distributed disc with Criterion-produced supplements and packaging (courtesy of Eric Chase Anderson, naturally). That's how the other three Wes Anderson films in the Criterion Collection were released. They're actually manufactured and distributed by Buena Vista Home Entertainment (Disney).

I think it's far more likely that Wes Anderson would convince Criterion to suck it up and essentially produce supplements for another company than convincing a huge conglomerate to change their corporate policies. I can also see them being more willing to play second-fiddle to Sony if Anderson promised them his next two films, both of which are Fox titles and thus available to Criterion.

But I certainly hope it's true (no matter who's pressing and distributing the DVD) and I hope we get confirmation sooner rather than later.

Don't you ever, EVER compare me to "Family Guy," you hear me Kyle? Compare me to "Family Guy" again and so help me, I will kill you where you stand!

Do you have any idea what it's like? Everywhere I go: "Hey Cartman you must like 'Family Guy,' right?" "Hey, your sense of humor reminds me of 'Family...

Export to Wiki
#5
Rating: 0
9/28/07 at 7:21pm
  • Joined: September 2002
  • Location: Deadmonton, Alberta Canada
  • Post Count: 6,003

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

regardless as to how this comes out, under the Criterion banner or no, I'll be snapping it up.
Who knew a credit card could scream?

What I'm listening to right now!

This post is invisible! It also has the power to kill threads!
Export to Wiki
#6
Rating: 0
9/28/07 at 8:22pm
  • Joined: September 2003
  • Post Count: 4,684

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

However this happens, it's gotta be better than the current disc!

So... Yaaaah!!!
Export to Wiki
#7
Rating: 0
9/29/07 at 12:26pm
  • Joined: November 2004
  • Location: New New Jersey
  • Post Count: 180

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

I've held off buying this movie on DVD for years in hope of Criterion doing this one eventually - hope this happens!

"Half of the time we're gone and we don't know where."

Export to Wiki
#8
Rating: 0
9/29/07 at 3:15pm
  • Joined: August 2002
  • Post Count: 705

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

I knew this was gonna happen - knew, knew, knew! - as soon as the $6 disc showed "out of print" at Deep Discount DVD.

Good knew... er, news!

"I just pre-ordered I DRINK YOUR BLOOD, even though I have no job."

Export to Wiki
#9
Rating: 0
9/30/07 at 2:53pm
  • Joined: December 2001
  • Post Count: 755

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

Well it's about damn time!

I've been waiting for Criterion to finally do this movie for years now. Glad I never gave in to the temptation of buying the crappy barebones release.
Export to Wiki
#10
Rating: 0
9/30/07 at 6:11pm
  • Joined: September 2002
  • Post Count: 2,163

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection (Coming in '08)

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshEH
Too bad The Darjeeling Limited likely won't be getting the Criterion treatment, though, being released through Fox Searchlight and all.

Now I love Criterion as much as everyone else, but why do you say that? Couldn't Fox put out a version as good as Criterion?
Click Here to Visit My Blog
Export to Wiki
#11
Rating: 0
9/30/07 at 7:26pm
  • Joined: April 2005
  • Location: Portland, OR
  • Post Count: 934

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection (Coming in '08)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Martin
Now I love Criterion as much as everyone else, but why do you say that? Couldn't Fox put out a version as good as Criterion?
Again there is nothing preventing a Criterion edition of Darjeeling Limited. They have a relationship with Fox that is still quite strong.
Export to Wiki
#12
Rating: 0
11/23/08 at 8:03am
  • Joined: July 1999
  • Location: The stars at night.....
  • Post Count: 4,274

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

Tuesday!

DIRECTOR-APPROVED SPECIAL EDITION FEATURES:
New, restored high-definition digital transfer supervised and approved by director Wes Anderson and director of photography Robert Yeoman
Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack
Commentary by director/co-writer Anderson and co-writer/star Owen Wilson
The Making of Bottle Rocket : an original documentary by filmmaker Barry Braverman featuring Anderson, James L. Brooks, James Caan, Temple Nash Jr., Kumar Pallana, Polly Platt, Mark Mothersbaugh, Robert Musgrave, Richard Sakai, David and Sandy Wasco, Andrew and Luke and Owen Wilson, and Robert Yeoman
The original thirteen-minute black-and-white Bottle Rocket short film from 1992
Eleven deleted scenes
Anamorphic screen test, storyboards, location photos, and behind-the-scenes photographs by Laura Wilson
Murita Cycles, a 1978 short film by Braverman
The Shafrazi Lectures, no. 1: Bottle Rocket
PLUS: A booklet featuring an essay by executive producer James L. Brooks, an appreciation by Martin Scorsese, and original artwork by Ian Dingman

"No one would know us there."

-Far From Heaven- (2002)

Export to Wiki
#13
Rating: 0
11/23/08 at 3:44pm
  • Joined: June 2001
  • Post Count: 2,039

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

Fox could have put out a Criterion-quality release. They didn't. Fox has a good relationship with Criterion. Criterion is Wes Anderson's studio of choice.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that a Criterion "Darjeeling" is in our future.

Don't you ever, EVER compare me to "Family Guy," you hear me Kyle? Compare me to "Family Guy" again and so help me, I will kill you where you stand!

Do you have any idea what it's like? Everywhere I go: "Hey Cartman you must like 'Family Guy,' right?" "Hey, your sense of humor reminds me of 'Family...

Export to Wiki
#14
Rating: 0
11/23/08 at 4:13pm
  • Joined: February 2007
  • Post Count: 1,384

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection (Coming in '08)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Dalek
Again there is nothing preventing a Criterion edition of Darjeeling Limited. They have a relationship with Fox that is still quite strong.

Fox might still be wanting to get their money back on this title before they start profit sharing with other video companies. Wes has conditioned fans of his films to expect a Criterion DVD so they will resist buying the studio release to avoid double dipping. He is a director whose films have a better following on DVD than in the cinema.

Sony waited 10 years before letting Criterion touch Bottle Rocket even though it's been rumored since Rushmore. It's all about maximizing profits on films that tanked theatrically. Maybe Limited will come out in 2016.

come see the reviews at
http://thedvdlounge.com/

and the Seinfeld Tour Bus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DztXpmMbj_0

Export to Wiki
#15
Rating: 0
11/23/08 at 4:39pm
  • Joined: July 1999
  • Location: The stars at night.....
  • Post Count: 4,274

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection (Coming in '08)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey3rd
Maybe Limited will come out in 2016.

2019.

"No one would know us there."

-Far From Heaven- (2002)

Export to Wiki
#16
Rating: 0
11/23/08 at 6:32pm
  • Joined: May 1999
  • Post Count: 438

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

Is anyone else kind of peeved at some of the screen shots on the review over at DVD Beaver?

It's like, Wes Anderson has gone back and "color-corrected" his first film to look overly saturated like his last 3 films (especially "Darjeeling").

I'm hoping that the stark differences between some of those screenshots does not become too distracting--the most annoying one is the shot of the notebook. White paper...for some reason looking sepia-toned. Why?

I don't have Rich-Text on this browser, so bare with this long link to the review:

Bottle Rocket Wes Anderson Owen Wilson
Export to Wiki
#17
Rating: 0
11/23/08 at 7:19pm
  • Joined: February 2004
  • Location: Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
  • Post Count: 1,658

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

The colour doesn't really bother me. Colour wasn't the only problem the old transfer had! So I'm just happy that there will be a a new version with a decent transfer, and with lots of extra features.
Red Hot Chili Peppers CD Re-Mastering Petition
Export to Wiki
#18
Rating: 0
11/24/08 at 5:26am
  • Joined: July 2000
  • Post Count: 892

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

Tiny tiny gripe on my end, but it looks like the trailer is not included. Granted, it's not a particularly innovative trailer, but I would think it would be interesting to see how Columbia tried selling the movie long before Wes Anderson became his own selling point.
I suppose it's those darned music rights again.

\"As I looked back over my life, I realized that I enjoyed nothing--not art, not sex--more than going to the movies.\" -- Gore Vidal

Export to Wiki
#19
Rating: 0
11/24/08 at 10:17pm
  • Joined: June 2001
  • Post Count: 2,039

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

Quote:
Fox might still be wanting to get their money back on this title before they start profit sharing with other video companies. Wes has conditioned fans of his films to expect a Criterion DVD so they will resist buying the studio release to avoid double dipping. He is a director whose films have a better following on DVD than in the cinema.

And how does another release of this film that would bring Fox more money foil this plan? Part of the reason Criterion discs are so expensive is because the studios still get a huge chunk. Basically Fox can make $20 on their own "Darjeeling Limited" DVD or Fox and Criterion can split their $40 edition down the middle and Fox still gets $20.

Quote:
Sony waited 10 years before letting Criterion touch Bottle Rocket even though it's been rumored since Rushmore. It's all about maximizing profits on films that tanked theatrically. Maybe Limited will come out in 2016.

Sony didn't wait 10 years to let Criterion touch "Bottle Rocket". They changed their policy on licensing to other studios. It's no coincidence that Time Life's "Real Ghostbusters" release is shipping within days of Criterion's "Bottle Rocket" release. The Sony floodgates opened to other studios at the same time and that has no bearing on if or when Fox decides to license "Darjeeling" to Criterion. Fox has license to companies like Criterion for years, Sony only just started. Apples and oranges.

Don't you ever, EVER compare me to "Family Guy," you hear me Kyle? Compare me to "Family Guy" again and so help me, I will kill you where you stand!

Do you have any idea what it's like? Everywhere I go: "Hey Cartman you must like 'Family Guy,' right?" "Hey, your sense of humor reminds me of 'Family...

Export to Wiki
#20
Rating: 0
11/25/08 at 8:06am
  • Joined: April 2005
  • Location: Portland, OR
  • Post Count: 934

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill GrandPre
Sony didn't wait 10 years to let Criterion touch "Bottle Rocket". They changed their policy on licensing to other studios.
I was under the impression that Wes bought the rights to the film back and Sony wasn't involved with the production of this dvd at all.
Export to Wiki
#21
Rating: 0
11/25/08 at 12:15pm
  • Joined: February 2007
  • Post Count: 1,384

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill GrandPre
And how does another release of this film that would bring Fox more money foil this plan? Part of the reason Criterion discs are so expensive is because the studios still get a huge chunk. Basically Fox can make $20 on their own "Darjeeling Limited" DVD or Fox and Criterion can split their $40 edition down the middle and Fox still gets $20.

The $40 Criterion doesn't earn Criterion $40. That's not the actual cost to the retailer per unit they sell. Bottle Rocket CRIT is going for $28 on Amazon. There's royalty payments and production costs and distribution fees. They have to pay for that new transfer. They still have to move a certain number of copies to make up the expenses of this new launch. The profits dry up quick. Sony's version is selling for $6. Sony will get their $2 profit from each so making this deal won't hurt them.

The question is how many copies can they sell of Limited to make it worth Fox to lose complete control over their original release. Sure there is an X number of diehards who are eager to buy it. But what makes it interesting is that Fox did lose a large chunk of change on the film. If Fox thought there truly was a market for a "Criterion"-like Limited release, they could easily do it themselves - put out a Blu-ray with all the charming bonus features for a 2 disc set. But odds are that Wes won't be cooperative because he only wants his deluxe stuff out on Criterion so he can take up a couple more numbers on the spine.

It is a shame that the DVD business isn't like the CD business so we could know how many silver discs move when a company decides to let Criterion put out a version versus when they create their own 2 disc edition. Although the key to letting Criterion handle the release is to stick them with the bills for the upgrades while making sure that your profit share isn't touched.

come see the reviews at
http://thedvdlounge.com/

and the Seinfeld Tour Bus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DztXpmMbj_0

Export to Wiki
#22
Rating: 0
11/25/08 at 1:04pm
  • Joined: June 2001
  • Post Count: 2,039

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

That was obviously an over-simplified version I used as an example but the point is the same: Fox would make money on a Fox DVD and Fox would make additional money on a Criterion DVD.

Don't you ever, EVER compare me to "Family Guy," you hear me Kyle? Compare me to "Family Guy" again and so help me, I will kill you where you stand!

Do you have any idea what it's like? Everywhere I go: "Hey Cartman you must like 'Family Guy,' right?" "Hey, your sense of humor reminds me of 'Family...

Export to Wiki
#23
Rating: 0
11/25/08 at 2:09pm
  • Joined: February 2007
  • Post Count: 1,384

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill GrandPre
That was obviously an over-simplified version I used as an example but the point is the same: Fox would make money on a Fox DVD and Fox would make additional money on a Criterion DVD.

The additional money isn't bad when you're talking about a film that made a nice chunk of change in the theater. But Fox was burned putting that movie out. it didn't even come close to earning half of its P&A budget - let alone it's production budget. This isn't even like the Office Space moving tons of copies for Fox after stiffing in the theater.

There's no additional money when you're talking a film that probably ended up in the red to about $20 million for Fox during the theatrical run. Especially since they thought this was going to be their Oscar bait.

Criterion is nice when you're talking gravy, but they still need their meat money.

come see the reviews at
http://thedvdlounge.com/

and the Seinfeld Tour Bus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DztXpmMbj_0

Export to Wiki
#24
Rating: 0
11/25/08 at 3:14pm
  • Joined: June 2001
  • Post Count: 2,039

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

Quote:
The additional money isn't bad when you're talking about a film that made a nice chunk of change in the theater. But Fox was burned putting that movie out. it didn't even come close to earning half of its P&A budget - let alone it's production budget. This isn't even like the Office Space moving tons of copies for Fox after stiffing in the theater.

There's no additional money when you're talking a film that probably ended up in the red to about $20 million for Fox during the theatrical run. Especially since they thought this was going to be their Oscar bait.

Criterion is nice when you're talking gravy, but they still need their meat money.

This still makes zero sense.

For starters, the vast majority of the Criterion catalog is undoubtedly far beneath "The Darjeeling Limited" in regards to profitability yet "Bottle Rocket" (one of those less-profitable movies) is #450.

I just fail to see why it's anything but a no-brainer. It's more money for Fox, Fox is licensing-friendly and has worked with Criterion before, it's the one Wes Anderson movie unavailable in the collection. Furthermore, you use "Office Space" as an example. This is obviously not a Criterion title. It's actually a perfect example of what "The Darjeeling Limited" isn't and I'm sure Fox knows it can't use"Office Space" as a sales model. If Fox saw "Darjeeling" as some lucrative property they'd want to get all the SE money to themselves but if they see something like "Darjeeling" which has limited appeal AND has a considerable chunk of its audience waiting for a Criterion release anyway they're not gonna hoard it away from a studio who is willing to invest in something that will make Fox more money.

I can only think of a couple credible possibilities that explain why there isn't one already:

#1: Fox will let them do it but after a set period of time (say, a year) when they can have their version on shelves.

#2: Anderson and Criterion were simply busy on the "Bottle Rocket" DVD

#3: Anderson, Fox and Criterion either want it to tie in with something (the theatrical release of the next Anderson film "The Fantastic Mr. Fox" is a good possibility) or they simply don't want to tie it into anything and they want to release it in a period where the release can get some attention of its own.

Quote:
I was under the impression that Wes bought the rights to the film back and Sony wasn't involved with the production of this dvd at all.

Nope, I have the DVD and the Columbia logo is present, as is "Under exclusive license from Sony Pictures Home Entertainment (C) Columbia Pictures Industries Inc."

This is a widespread corporate change that had little (if anything) to do with "Bottle Rocket" and Criterion. They simply took advantage of the ability to finally license the film after all these years. Again, for every company like Criterion that was dying to get to something like "Bottle Rocket" there was another company like Time Life dying to do "The Real Ghostbusters".

Don't you ever, EVER compare me to "Family Guy," you hear me Kyle? Compare me to "Family Guy" again and so help me, I will kill you where you stand!

Do you have any idea what it's like? Everywhere I go: "Hey Cartman you must like 'Family Guy,' right?" "Hey, your sense of humor reminds me of 'Family...

Export to Wiki
#25
Rating: 0
11/25/08 at 4:23pm
  • Joined: February 2007
  • Post Count: 1,384

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

did find information about units moved from Criterion.

according to an article from 2005, the best selling Criterion set is Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas at 300K. Royal Tennenbaums was listed as selling around 150K. Seeing how that film was only released as a Criterion edition, the idea of putting out Limited after a few years makes it more of an act of charity rather than a way to tap into a fresh revenue source.

come see the reviews at
http://thedvdlounge.com/

and the Seinfeld Tour Bus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DztXpmMbj_0

Export to Wiki
#26
Rating: 0
11/25/08 at 5:46pm
  • Joined: June 2001
  • Post Count: 2,039

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

If it was a charity the Criterion "Fear and Loathing" wouldn't cost twice as much as the bare-bones Universal release.

There's obviously money to be made there. Would Criterion even exist if that wasn't the case?

Don't you ever, EVER compare me to "Family Guy," you hear me Kyle? Compare me to "Family Guy" again and so help me, I will kill you where you stand!

Do you have any idea what it's like? Everywhere I go: "Hey Cartman you must like 'Family Guy,' right?" "Hey, your sense of humor reminds me of 'Family...

Export to Wiki
#27
Rating: 0
11/25/08 at 8:28pm
  • Joined: February 2007
  • Post Count: 1,384

Re: Bottle Rocket: Criterion Collection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill GrandPre
If it was a charity the Criterion "Fear and Loathing" wouldn't cost twice as much as the bare-bones Universal release.

There's obviously money to be made there. Would Criterion even exist if that wasn't the case?

Criterion does present itself as a charity when it comes collecting bonus feature material. They don't even want to pay postage. The good part is that they will allow a filmmaker to provide them with all the stuff that they want included as a bonus feature. That's something that appeals since certain studios were notorious for refusing to let directors include stuff on the discs (and even if the director paid to record the commentary track). But they won't pay for the extra stuff.

Criterion makes their money, but they survive off the generosity of studios and directors. They aren't cutting big checks to land a lure from Paramount. Especially if they only move 150K DVDs of a film that made $50 million.

Judging from all the cutbacks in the entertainment industry, who knows how long any DVD company will be existing.

come see the reviews at
http://thedvdlounge.com/

and the Seinfeld Tour Bus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DztXpmMbj_0

Export to Wiki
Forum Nav More Forums | All New Posts | New Thread