CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

I've been reading elsewhere that CSI just lost its most complex and human of all the characters on the show, because Sara was probably the most developed and had the most emotional depth, due to everything both Anthony and Joe mentioned.

Like her or not, would anyone agree with that assessment?

There seem to be two 'camps' on this kind of subject - one who believes the show will suffer because of this, and another who believes it won't matter much, if at all, because the cases are why people watch the show, not the characters.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

I just watched this episode and thought it was excellent. I've always liked the Sara character so I didn't want to see her go but her exit was well done. This was a situation where they managed to make lemonade out lemons.

Nicholas you seem to keep abreast on all the CSI news , do you know how many episodes they finished before the strike? I've seen that Miami and NY have 12 or so done so I'd imagine Vegas is about the same but I haven't seen any definitive statement.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

Leave it to me to have one foot in both camps. I watch the shows for both the cases and the interplay between the characters...but I don't think the show needs to suffer with Sara's departure. The cast is still strong and it will be fascinating to see how Grissom copes with the situation.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

Same here actually. The characters seem to rotate in and out of episodes (like if Catherine is in alot of one episode, she'll be in a scene or two of the next due to the shooting schedules) enough that, as much as I enjoyed the Sara character, the other actors and characters will be able to pick up the slack.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

It was a good episode and departure for Sara. It left open the possibility that she could return in the future even if only for a guest shot. I'm ok with her departure since she has never been my favorite character, but she did help add a depth to the show and to Grissom's character.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

Can't add to what's been said, well done episode.

There's enough characters to pick-up the void Jorja leaves. But the personality of the show will change a bit. All signs point to her return and the show runners will welcome her back. Seems both the character and the actress needed a break.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

Each character has had their share of background story, but it does not lead the show, it is the foundation of the show. Gil and his hearing loss, Catherine and Sam Braun, her ex, Lindsay, etc. Brass and his daughter, Worrick and his gambling, Sara and her past, her no-life outside work, Nick and his getting involved with possible conflict of interests, say hookers, and of course Greg. So long as the show has good, interesting, quirky, weird crime stories that fit the show,it will go on for as long as they want to do it.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

Yeah, I love reading about the behind-the-scenes aspect of the three series, but absolutely none of the gossip nonsense. In other words, learning that William Friedkin is directing an episode is something worth knowing, whereas learning that Gary Dourdan (Warrick) got into a few fights with paparazzi isn't worth knowing at all. That's the frustrating thing about watching useless shows like Entertainment Tonight, where they offer up little set visits of the series, in between all the hollywood gossip garbage and fashion silliness. In the end though it's fun to get to see David Caruso so normal when talking about CSI: Miami in comparison to seeing him play that infamous character with a severely polarized group of fans and detractors.

Unfortunately I haven't read anything about how many episodes of any of the shows were produced prior to the strike, but I'd have to assume that they make enough episodes to go into November sweeps and then they're done for holidays, but that's only a guess.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

TV Guide's Michael Ausiello is keeping a running tally of which shows have how episodes in production and how many left to air, but he has not been able to get firm numbers on all shows. (I would imagine several of them are going over the last few first- and second-draft scripts they have on hand and deciding if they are in good enough shape to shoot, and up in the air over whether or not their show-runners will return to prouduce, so even they don't know for sure.)

He says CSI: NY will produce 14 episodes for the season, leaving 6 left to air as of today, November 17, 2007. But neither CSI: Miami nor the mothership is listed, which means he hasn't been able to find our for sure about those shows.

We can only hope that some progress will be made when talks resume on Friday.

Regards,

Joe

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

Either way, looks like this week's new episode will be a hoot!

If it has to end for a while (which it would regardless because shows always go on an extended break after November sweeps anyway) it might as well end on a fun note rather than a dour one.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

I love when they take an episode 'off' to have fun and focus on the lab folks. Lots of funny stuff with all the characters- "What do you have against Bobby Dawson?" and "Trace, is there anything you can't do?"

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

Yeah, David's obsession with "signs of sexual activity" on the victims, Brass going on and on about how great Hodges is, Greg's 'Yeah whatever' to Grissom - the only one who didn't have a sympathetic moment with him while everyone else was walking on eggshells around him because of Sara. Having the team sit there and wait until Hodges (and perhaps the audience? ) catch up to them so they can do their stuff.

Man, this episode was fun on so many levels.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

"It's a neck wound!"

"What do you have against Bobby Dawson?"
"Nothing. It's a running gag."

Loved it, loved it. I did like that Hodges is the one who provides the best analysis and explanation (in part for those audience members who are still wondering) of why Sara left and why Grissom didn't go with her. I also liked that they dealt with her departure without making a big deal out of it, working it in at the margins of an otherwise light and playful episode. (Especially since the first part of the teaser suggested otherwise.)

I'll bet that the supporting cast had a blast with this episode, especially those who got to "play dead" (and be autopsied.) And Gerald McCullough probably got more screen time as Bobby Dawson in this episode than in his previous 30-some appearances. (While checking this on IMDB I was suprised to see that Sheeri Rappaport has appeared as Mandy fewer the 20 times in 7 1/2 seasons of the show. The supporting characters get spread out enough and are kept vivid enough to remain part of the fabric of the show, even when we don't see them for awhile.)

BTW, has anyone else noticed that Marc Vann (Ecklie) has been taking his officious twit act on the road to other crime shows lately? He was an internal affairs investigator on Criminal Minds this week, was somebody annoying on Women's Murder Club and did a similar turn on NCIS recently.

Regards,

Joe

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

It was a hoot to see the main cast act and break through the 4th wall.

Too bad for Hodges, he was doing so well with Wendy and then he blew it! Maybe the writers will make it work out for him. I liked the line about being geeky and a lot of free time on his hands to develope the game.

At least Hodges continues to make inroads as he is connecting more with Grissom.

I think the effects guys had a blast with those dummy corpses, especially Hodges'.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

I liked the idea that Wendy is planning on taking the CSI exam. It opens up the possibility that she could be seeing more on screen time and that is good in my book.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

Yep, my wife and I watched Criminal Minds last night, not much of a stretch playing the I.A. guy.
Watched CSI casually over at the in-laws house and didn't really think i'd like it but when we re-watched at home and thought it was a good ep. As others have said the breaking of the fourth wall was interesting to see, Greg motioning for the camera to re-focus on the blasting cap and, I think, Catherine did it as well. David's "no sign of sexual trama" bit was the funniest of the night.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

Yeah, Catherine was tapping on the terrarium to call attention to the plant. But nothing beat Wendy opening her eyes on the autopsy table and doing the "neck wound" line when the camera started trailing down her from her face towards her chest.

Joe

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

She's certainly a looker but not with those fresh autopsy stitches!

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

Just a head's up that this week's ep is new, and probably the last new one before the holiday break.

"Cockroaches", directed by William Friedkin. From the preview, looks like Warrick has having some serious issues.

I haven't seen "To Live and Die in L.A." for a long time, but I think it's nice to have that reunion there with William Petersen, just like when his "Manhunter" co-star Tom Noonan appeared in season 3.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

There's a new one next week according to my Tivo.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

I'm not sure what to think about last night's ep. Warrick seemed very out of character. There were a few hints of him popping pills but we haven't seen them affect him at all so far (at least that I can recall), and suddenly he's spiraling out of control, breaking rules left and right. I liked the content of the episode, but it really didn't feel like a CSI show in some ways.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

I agree, this episode was well done, but Warrick's change must have happened off-screen. It seemed to come out of nowhere. Grissom seemed tougher too. I thought it could have been Friedkin's direction, but it appears it was written this way. And the garbage truck chase was an homage to him.

Looks like Warrick's situation will be continued next week and maybe there will be some explaination.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

I thought the same thing. Overall, I don't think it was a bad episode but it was... different.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

Every time I read comments about a show like CSI doing something a little different, I roll my eyes.

With viewers it's a no-win situation. Viewers want originality and diversity - a change of pace from time to time, but whenever the show does just that (the last episode "You Kill Me" for example) viewers complain about it being too different. Viewers want sameness at the same time. I'm not saying that people here are complaining - no one here is....yet. However I wouldn't be surprised at all if people end up doing so in the end. This isn't the only CSI - related thread I read, so it's more of a general observation not specific to just here.

This episode was indeed different, and I embraced that immediately.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

I know what you're saying but I rarely complain when a show wants to try something different. Even if this episode was the usual CSI episode, my biggest critique would still be the suddeness of Warrick's problems rather than trying to build up to it more gradually over the course of a few episodes.

Even if a viewer hated the episode (which I didn't), it's sorta useless to get worried about it because William Friedkin was the 'reason' for the changes. Either they gave Friedkin a little bit more room to do what he wanted or the writers and producers felt they had a little more room since a name director was coming on. It's not a sign of things to come, just an episode that tried something different.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

Some of the other primary CSI threads I read are at DVDTalk, and just about everyone there hated "You Kill Me" (the second Lab Rats episode a couple of weeks ago) because it was 'different'. Here, just about everyone loved it for those differences.

When characters are suddenly totally different that's an understandable criticism. It just makes no sense when characters are unrecognizable for a single episode without explanation.

When it's more of an experimental storytelling style, or experimental visual style change, or a perspective change (like the episode in season 6 "Killer" showing William Sadler's character actually commit the crime, then following his personal life while the CSI's catch up to him) that's when I roll my eyes because the show is trying hard to be as original as it can while preserving its own identity, but it's almost as though people don't want them to try too hard.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

I must not have been paying attention lately (maybe distracted by the Sara situation), but I can't recall seeing Warrick popping any pills at all, so his actions in this episode really seemed to come out of left field. Maybe the producers went too far in making whatever signs there were subtle.

For me the whole thing felt like something from a lesser show - create an unmotivated crisis for a character for one story and then resolve it by the tag. And the whole "investigator becomes prime suspect" thing gets trotted out at some point in every crime show and it rarely gets a really good or original treatment.

That said, I thought the episode itself was quite good. I just missed the careful build-up that the show is usually so good about doing before this kind of character story. (Catherine's various relationships with men, her father, her mother and Lindsay, Warrick's gambling issues early on, Sara's assorted problems and her relationship with Grissom, Grissom's hearing loss, etc.)

It will be interesting to see how they get Warrick out of this one, and how these events affect his relationships with the other characters, especially Grissom, who has saved Warrick's carreer more than once in the past.

Regards,

Joe

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

I thought the episode was OK. I don't mind when shows end up doing things a little different ("You Kill Me" was great fun and a nice break from business as usual after the seriousness of Sara's departure), but "Cockroaches" just seemed to spiral out of control. The idea of Warrick (or anyone else in the cast, for that matter) having a drug problem that gets in the way of work isn't inherently bad; it just seemed as if it came out of nowhere, though. I think this sort of episode would have worked better if they had given it more of a buildup. I just had a hard time believing that someone could be so out of control so quickly, without any real warning signs previously.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

The more I think about it, the build up was there. It was just very subtle. There was talk earlier of his marraige breaking up. There was the show last year where he blew up at his wife because he thought she was cheating on him. This episode started off with him yelling at someone on the cell phone about the divorce, I forget the details. Then he popped the pills. But the pills did seem to come from no where, but was explained as something he needed as he was having his personal issues.

And they only did one show of Sara having her doubts about continuing before the episodes where she called it quits. Of course they had the MK storyline for added foundation for Sara's decision. Maybe they felt they had to rush Warrick's story because of the writers strike so they could squeeze these 2 shows in before they stopped.

Re: CSI: Las Vegas Season 8 thread

Sure, there were lots of shows with Warrick having "issues" of one kind or another (going all the way back to the pilot) but none suggesting that he did have or had ever had a drug problem. We never even "subtly" saw him popping prescription pills from time to time (which would have been easy enough to work in.) So that aspect felt forced. As for Sara - well, they only had a couple of episodes between her rescue and Jorja Fox's scheduled departure. From the actress's point of view the whole point of leaving was to leave, so she only signed on to appear in a few season 8 episodes. That gave the writer's their timeline.

Even so, I'd submit that Sara was "different" - somewhat distant from everyone but Grissom and more cynical about the job - from the moment she returned to work. Even the ease with which she agreed to change shifts rather than have Grissom do it, and the way she accepted his proposal suggested (to me at least) that she was mentally preparing to leave the job. It was only in the last two episodes that she realized she'd also have to leave Las Vegas and Grissom. (Because the work still meant too much to him and she couldn't take him away from it.)

So I thought that developed much more naturally than Warrick suddenly having a drug problem. It is like Nick turning out to be a raging alcoholic after 8 seasons in which we've never even seen him tipsy. Before Sara's DUI at the end of season - 4? - we'd seen a couple of instances of slightly erratic behavior from her, followed by her sucking on cough drops and an early morning crime scene (and lying to Nick about having only one.) Later in the same episode she's taken aside for a heart-to-heart about the dangers of self-medicating by Jim Brass. So when she's picked up and nearly arrested at the end of the season, the foundation's been laid and it doesn't come as a total shock

Maybe the scheduling with Friedkin and the desire to get this in before the strike did have an effect, but how hard could it have been to shoot a couple of quick shots of Warrick popping a pill here and there or hiding a bottle to be inserted into earlier episodes during editing? As I said, the episode itself played fine, but the introduction of the drug storyline was so uncharacteristically sloppy for this show, that it really stands out. On a lot of other shows it would have been business as usual, and therefore less annoying.

Regards,

Joe