**Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

Originally Posted by Dan_Ohio

Reading the latest posts, It looks like people on here have reached my point. Tired of the war.

Can we all agree that this war has eliminated high def discs as becoming mainstream? DVD won..... Microsoft has strategically worked the war to make sure we have no winner. Why say that about Microsoft, they supplement the studios with a group of people creating the HD programming. Didn't they mention that in Vegas? Without it, would the exclusive studios been exclusive? We get to pay more for discs for the life of the format.

I would not want to be on the Toshiba board explaining how they spent so munch on R&D for HD-DVD and dumped the old player. Low player prices are not going to end the war. It just keeps it going. Sorry had to get that jab in.

The biggest hardware winner will be the one that creates the high def receiver box that receives over air signals that let you watch it on non HD TVs. Add a DVD player to it and you have a winner. Does anyone know the ratio of HD TVs to non HD TVs being used?

I am happy watching my Direct TV HD channels,on my Samsung HD 720p TV, with my playstation 3. Up stairs, Sony 720p TV with Panasonic Blu-ray player (thanks Panasonic), and non HD direct dvr. Not enough cash or desire to convert that to a HD dvr player yet. Think I will be waiting a long time to go to 1080p and spend more money on HD.

The mass consumers probably think the biggest selling feature for HD is that it finally fills the screen like their old tv. one day the studios can eliminate the Pan&Scan versions. Wonder how much it costs them to make that version?

Originally Posted by Averry

How can a person who thinks physical media will die, ALSO thinks that digital downloads are the future?






Explain to me how the people who are avoiding high defintion are going to be savy enough to invest in whatever future home internet high defintion infrastructer with whatever terabyte amount hard drive for downloading movies?

Originally Posted by RobertR

I've yet to see any hard survey data that proves that slow adoption rates are due to the format war. And unlike VHS/Beta, combo machines will be available. Once that happens, the "I want to avoid format confusion" reason simply goes away. The sales person will be able to say very simply, "buy this, and you can play anything". Then the buyer can say "war? what war?".

Originally Posted by Cees Alons

On a different note (and about studio support).

According to HighDefDigest, Warner has now reacted to the "leaning to Blu-ray" story. Some people may want to read this for what it's worth (as was the previous story):

Warner Says Blu-ray Comments "Misquoted and Misconstrued"

Interesting paragraph:


Cees

Originally Posted by RobertR

That sounds plausible, but it also sounds like the format war is irrelevant to the majority. If they get a cheap player that plays HD, they won't care about the format war.

Originally Posted by Dan_Ohio

KMart is not HD-DVD exclusive. Maybe for a one function player it is exclusive. Seach on Blu-ray and you get to see the PS3. In my opinion one of th best HD players.

What does exclusive mean these days? Target is blu-ray but has HD-DVD players

Read that blu-ray is up to 100 gig now. Maybe this will be the end of the two disc set. I rather have it all on one disc.

Originally Posted by RobertR

Why does Toshiba have to make combo players? The Samsung player is due quite soon, and could very well be followed by others..

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

Target only has HD DVD players on line. They don't have them in store.

Doug

Originally Posted by RobertR

Where did you read that 100 gig movie discs are coming to market? Given the fact that MOST BR discs are still 25 gigs, it hardly makes sense to introduce 100 gigs when 50 gigs are so difficult to produce.

Originally Posted by bigluigi

Sorry Dan but I think your reading your own wishes here and hoping they come true.

Firstly, this is not a "war" in the typical sense...you know, blood and guts type stuff. It's simply a HEALTHY struggle between two competing video formats for our dollars. It's capitalism at its best with billions of dollars at stake.

But we, as consumers, are in the drivers seat. We get to decide between two formats both seemingly bending over backward to sell their wares. Both have cut prices drastically and will continue to do so. I never tire of the process of researching and than selecting between competing brands and getting the best bang for my buck.

If the BDA had killed HD-DVD in the opening rounds and consumers had only the Blu-ray format to choose from, I seriously doubt we would have seen an HD player for $98 this quarter.

I have no doubt that, in time, HD-DVD will become mainstream and become the preferred video format for many years to come. Why? Just do the research. Hd-DVD offers a better value to the average Walmart type consumer.

It's a pity that you were not in that Walmart line for the $98 A2. It's a fantastic machine for that price and 5 free HD movies.

Originally Posted by Cees Alons

Dan,

You have a strange way of quoting me. I never wrote that line (with or without a "t")!


Cees

Originally Posted by Dan_Ohio

I think everyone knows the 98 dollar player was a dump of the player by WalMart. So yes that would have happened to get ride of the old players out of inventory.

Originally Posted by Dan_Ohio

Disc prices remain high due to splitting volume. I find it very ironic that HD-DVD taunts the cheaper disc creation, but the price is the same as Blu-ray. Why don't they pass on the savings from HD-DVD to the consumer? Or is this all talk and the price to create the disc is the same?

Originally Posted by Dan_Ohio

Wouldn't that be end game if Toshiba created a blu-ray combo player.

Originally Posted by Dan_Ohio

I think everyone knows the 98 dollar player was a dump of the player by WalMart. So yes that would have happened to get ride of the old players out of inventory. Don't be surprised to see dump of the old blu-ray players. It is interesting that consumers have such low value for the player that it had to be $98 dollars to get ride of them. WalMart took a loss on those players and had to have sold them under cost.

Does anyone here know the actual cost to build a player, market it, and ship it to companies? Is it 200?

Consumers in this war are not in the driver seat at all. This
WAR has been very anti consumer. Disc prices remain high due to splitting volume. I find it very ironic that HD-DVD taunts the cheaper disc creation, but the price is the same as Blu-ray. Why don't they pass on the savings from HD-DVD to the consumer? Or is this all talk and the price to create the disc is the same?

If there was one format here is what I think would have happened.

1) We would have used the higher capacity disc blu-ray
2) The HD-DVD minimum would have been used as the standard
3) Microsoft would have built HDI as a front nd to Java.
4) Players would have started at 1000 but by now would be the 399 price with the free discs. DVD had the same.
5) We would have had 10 times the adoption rate
6) PCs would have had the new drive as a standard by now
7) The price of a movie would have been about 15.99 - 19.99.

I rather had the above then a split and consumers wondering what to do.

Originally Posted by bigluigi

I hope your right about those old BR players being dumped but I think Sony would collect all of them and dump em in the ocean before they let anyone retail them for less than the new PS3.

I suspect that if Blu-ray was the only format, it would be laserdisc era marketing all over again. Blu-ray would become nothing more than a niche product. Player and software prices would be expensive and remain expensive without mass acceptance (if you think Fox Blu-ray titles are expensive now...ha, just imagine what they would be without any competition) and DVD would remain the format of choice for just about everyone. Not a pretty picture.

Originally Posted by Marc Colella

Maybe they are passing the savings on to the consumer and the Blu-Ray releases are getting price cuts to compete. I believe it's been proven that it's cheaper to produce HD DVD discs - especially since it doesn't require a seperate line to create the discs.



I think you're way too optimistic about that. There aren't that many people holding of on HDM because of the format war. People either don't know and/or don't care about HDM.



Very doubtful. It would increase the cost of a PC too much yet only cater to a very small portion of people. Very few of those who watch DVD movies on their computer would care to upgrade to HD/BD. Look how long it took for DVD-ROM drives to become standard in PCs.

Originally Posted by RobertR

I think you meant to say 100 instead of 50, but the link you provided doesn't answer my question. It says absolutely nothing about 100 gig MOVIE discs being planned. And I'll repeat the same question: Given the fact that 50 gig discs are so difficult to produce and have such low yields (well under half of all BR discs are 50 gig, most are 25 gig), why would the BR people give themselves even BIGGER headaches trying to produce 100 gig discs when producing 50 gigs is such a tremendous strain?

Originally Posted by Dan_Ohio

Since Blu-ray is more than just Sony, remember Blu-ray was accepted by the majority of manufactures, except Toshiba. Sony can't do what Toshiba can do and lower the price of the player below cost.

Originally Posted by Dan_Ohio

So far I have 10 friends that are waiting to see what happens. I would venture to guess everyone on this site knows people that are waiting.

Originally Posted by Dan_Ohio

You must be missing or not spelling blu-ray correctly. Target sells the Sony blu-ray player on line.

Originally Posted by Dan_Ohio

5) We would have had 10 times the adoption rate

Originally Posted by Dan_Ohio

Since Blu-ray is more than just Sony, remember Blu-ray was accepted by the majority of manufactures, except Toshiba. Sony can't do what Toshiba can do and lower the price of the player below cost. I think the other manufactures would be upset. Toshiba can play the game without issue.

So you are saying that DVD prices would not have come down. I think history has proved that the competition is between studios and prices do come down. Having them separated eliminates some of the competition.

Originally Posted by ppltd

What a laugh. The latest surveys done by the marketing companies pretty much dismissed the ideaq that the dual formats have anything at all to do with user acceptance, and pretty much stated that the average purchaser just didn't see any reason to upgrade to High Def content. Their DVD's were just fine. The second reason given was cost. Dual formats took a very distant third. There just isn't any need that these formats have been able to generate with the general public.

By the way, I know of no-one (how doesn't currently have an HD of BD player, that is even remotely interested in purchasing one any time. My guess is that there are many others on this forum that are in the same boat.