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A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

#91
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8/1/07 at 3:22pm
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Agreed. BD's advantages remain hypothetical. TheDigitalBits' cheerleading for the format is a little tiresome, though I understand Bill's reasons.

My verdict on the IME for 300 is that it's an excellent feature, and a clear discriminator between the two releases for those who want to learn about how the film was made. Had all other things been equal, I might have gone for the BD version, given the fact that my PS3 outputs BD via HDMI, and my 360 add-on drive doesn't...but all other things were not equal.

--Jefferson Morris
"If fakes, they were masterpieces."

--The New York Times commenting on Willis O'Brien's dinosaurs in The Lost World (1925).

"From the two trailers I've seen, the movie looks like AIDS."--Recent thread post on AICN
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#92
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8/1/07 at 5:06pm
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam_G
I think it's ridiculous that they don't have the bluescreen pic-in-pin on the Blu-Ray version. It's clearly winning the format war, yet they give the feature to HD-DVD. Should be on both imo.

The Picture in Picture feature doesn't work on Blu-ray yet, so they really couldn't offer it at this time. This would be an HD DVD only release (for now) if they had waited for Picture in Picture on blu-ray.

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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#93
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8/1/07 at 5:53pm
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
The Picture in Picture feature doesn't work on Blu-ray yet, so they really couldn't offer it at this time. This would be an HD DVD only release (for now) if they had waited for Picture in Picture on blu-ray.

Doug

Picture-in-picture seems to work fine on the Blu-ray version of Dragon's Lair.
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#94
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8/1/07 at 7:06pm
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd H
Picture-in-picture seems to work fine on the Blu-ray version of Dragon's Lair.

I'm not sure how they did this for Dragon's Lair. There seems to have been some kind of technical trickery as I don't believe that any blu-ray player on the market at this point has the second chip required to do the video overlay for Picture in Picture.

The only player right now that might be able to do BD-J picture in picture is the PS3 and it would have to do it through some kind of software emulation.

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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#95
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8/2/07 at 5:15am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd H
Picture-in-picture seems to work fine on the Blu-ray version of Dragon's Lair.

And also on The Descent.
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus.
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#96
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8/2/07 at 5:17am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleddyn Williams
More BD promises for the future. The HD DVD works great and is in stores now.

So? I´m happy to double-dip if that´s the case in the near future. Blu-ray-version also "works great and is in stores now". It´s not "combo" and has additional PCM-track. Nothing wrong with that either.

I believe that this "rumor" (if Deborah Snyder actually said: "they were working on a more elaborate IME for the Blu-ray, which was going to have storyboards and production artwork in addition to the bluescreen footage") is an important one. Why?

Well, this might mean that "300 re-release" could be the first proper release on Blu-ray supporting the "full" BD-J. So when BD-Java is finally ready, "300" will be released (perhaps some other titles also) supporting PiP, storyboards etc. Snyder might have leaked something very important..

Of course some HD DVD-fans hope that full BD-J, Fox support etc doesn´t materialize, but I think there´s an old saying of who gets the last laugh.. <= humor

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#97
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8/2/07 at 5:33am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Quote:
Picture-in-picture seems to work fine on the Blu-ray version of Dragon's Lair.

Quote:
And also on The Descent.

PiP, as defined by the format specs, does not currently exist on Blu-ray. PiP requires dual video decoders and no Blu-ray players have this. The Blu-ray spec requiring dual decoder support is not scheduled to go into effect until the first of November.

Those BD release so far that have what looks like PiP are using some other authoring to accomplish this.
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#98
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8/2/07 at 7:12am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
So? I´m happy to double-dip if that´s the case in the near future. Blu-ray-version also "works great and is in stores now". It´s not "combo" and has additional PCM-track. Nothing wrong with that either.

The "SO" is that the IME is here NOW on HD DVD. The blu version is missing what is to a lot of us a major bonus feature. As this thread is discussing the two versions that were released on Tuesday, that seems a fair point to me.
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#99
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8/2/07 at 7:13am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George
PiP, as defined by the format specs, does not currently exist on Blu-ray. PiP requires dual video decoders and no Blu-ray players have this. The Blu-ray spec requiring dual decoder support is not scheduled to go into effect until the first of November.

Those BD release so far that have what looks like PiP are using some other authoring to accomplish this.

Yes, I seem to remember reading around the time of release that The Descent actually has a second encoding of the film with the PIP window on it.
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#100
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8/2/07 at 7:32am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Quote:
Those BD release so far that have what looks like PiP are using some other authoring to accomplish this

Same end result though right? Looked like PIP to me.
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus.
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#101
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8/2/07 at 7:38am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tino
Same end result though right? Looked like PIP to me.

Yes but to put two encodes of the movie on to the disc takes up a huge amount of real estate that could be used for other things.

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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#102
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8/2/07 at 8:21am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Dragon's Lair is different than The Descent. DL pip was done with BD-J. I remember reading an article/interview on it but can't find it now.
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#103
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8/2/07 at 9:01am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

I thought I read that The Descent was done with BD-J too.
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus.
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#104
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8/2/07 at 9:08am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

I stand corrected. From the HD Digest review:

Quote:
However, unlike the HD DVD format's HDi environment, which allows for live in-player mixing of two separate video streams, Blu-ray BD-Java tools are currently MIA. So Lionsgate took the more obvious route, encoding a full, separate version of the film, complete with those little video picture-in-picture boxes over the main feature, to simulate the IME experience.
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus.
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#105
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8/2/07 at 11:42am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

This is by paidgeek from AVS forum (about Blu-ray and web related features):

"It is still early days for web delivered content that enhances an HD disc. I do not expect the studios to be obligated to keep content up forever, but avoiding dead links on the disc has been discussed internally and we are sensitive to that. The Blu-ray format allows for saving content designed to be associated with a given title on "local storage". Consumers should become accustom to saving the content they want on their own without an expectation that it will be on a server for years waiting for them to download it over again. That said, we can watch the frequency of downloads over time and make some business decisions based on those findings."

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#106
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8/2/07 at 1:33pm
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

I Though the transer of this was great,But the look of the film is pretty
bad,Like the look of "Flags of our Fathers" its another low color mess up!
I ratter just see B&W ,then this ,Its looks like they filmed it in B&W
and then Added color latter,
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#107
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8/2/07 at 2:00pm
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Neski
Like the look of "Flags of our Fathers" its another low color mess up!

It´s artistic - and fully intended, choice by the director and DOP. Both "300" and "Flags/Letters" look pretty awesome to my eye. Rough beauty, I like that. It adds realism (in the case of "Flags/Letters", "300" was just entertainment).

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#108
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8/2/07 at 3:36pm
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

This movie was based on Frank Miller's Graphic Novels and is styled in the same manner. Do people complain about the same things with Sin City? Do ALL movies have to look exactly the same?? I guess people don't like creativity and prefer vanilla even though there's lots of other flavours available.
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#109
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8/2/07 at 8:44pm
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

I absolutely LOVED the look of this movie!

And you believe, at heart, everyone's a killer...
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#110
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8/3/07 at 2:30am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romar Armas
Do ALL movies have to look exactly the same??

Some people were probably a bit spoiled during the 1990s/early 2000s etc when many Hollywood productions used that ultra-slick commercial style and everything looked perfected and polished. Now I have nothing against that style (if it´s that "artistic/intended, choice"), but we should be happy that we have such a variety of styles in these days and even some of the big Hollywood productions can look rough and rugged (yes, and grainy). I have a feeling that films like "Saving Private Ryan (1998)" (opening scene) and "Gladiator (2000)" (that certain "style" during the fight scenes) helped to add that "roughness", desaturated colors and hand-held look to the huge Hollywood productions.

It´s sad if now (when the HD-formats are here and that added sharpness/detail-level, etc) people complain about issues like grain, lack of colors, etc etc IF they´re meant to be there in the first place. We should look in the mirror: Do we want everything to be "perfect" (just because we have a kick-ass widescreen TV and HD-player) or how they were meant to be seeing? If you choose the "first one", it´s best to wake up to reality. Grain is now your friend, probably more than before. You just didn´t always see it that well in SD DVD..

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#111
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8/3/07 at 4:33am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

While heavy grain was a compression problem for SD, it seems to be quite reproducible in HD. A wonderful example is Warner's Bullitt.

RAH

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did."  T.E. Lawrence

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#112
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8/3/07 at 7:48am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

I don't have any issues regarding film grain, but the fake "grain" that was added to this film looked more like noise and became somewhat annoying after awhile. I watched this at a friend's house and then watched some of it at home. This film really demonstrated how badly my 57HX81 rolls off high frequencies. The " grain" was definitely less distinct;however, I would prefer the look of the degraded image if I didn't know that I have to be losing other high frequency detail along with the softened "grain".

Your spurs.....

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Those that come in by the door...
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#113
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8/3/07 at 9:00am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

"It´s sad if now (when the HD-formats are here and that added sharpness/detail-level, etc) people complain about issues like grain, lack of colors, etc etc IF they´re meant to be there in the first place"

I not compaining about the few Films that get low color right,Like "The Last
Emperor" ,or other Bertollucci films where Storaro and his Lab have a eye
for color that these lesser Visual film makers have,Whille I think Eastwood is
a fine Director,he no great visual talent , The Makers of "300" problem
wasn't the idea ,Its there talent level with Photograpy ,there not too
good at designing the frame either.They do have some fine skills with
action scenes and editing,I don't care for shooting everything in the
studio either,But I don't think they had any choice.
I didn't care for the look of "Gladiator either,just my taste
Peter
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#114
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8/4/07 at 10:32pm
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I think the grain was exaggerated in the digital grading process.

Doug
So, not shot digitally.
However, "digital" grain added?

(Is it possible to get ANYTHING right on the web?!?!?!?! ;-) )
JJ

I like how the stills & posters for 300 don't show the grain that's on the film.
Who's running the asylum???

EDitEDbyED:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romar Armas
This movie was based on Frank Miller's Graphic Novels and is styled in the same manner.
Is the graphic novel "grainy"?
Always (well, since seeing the film) want to know that, thanks.
Again, funny the stills don't have the grain.

reEDitEDbyED:
Did some research, for myself.
Well, to me, the movie "looks" nothing like the film.
Yes, the shot by shot, is very close. However, the colors, light & graininess of the graphic novel & film are nothing alike (to me).
Graphic novel is BRIGHT by comparison. And is not at all "grainy".

So, I can't see at all were people say the "look" (yes, again, the scenes are very close) is alike.
I don't see it.
(I do like/prefer the general look/style of the film, however)

Movies are: "The Greatest Artform".
HD should be for EVERYONE!

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#115
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8/5/07 at 8:55am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Watched the BD the other night. Looked fantastic to me and BTW I love the look of the film. Also checked out the deleted scenes and I was satisfied.

I won't be double dipping on a future BD w/PIP - The apathy I have for this feature on HD DVD will be the same for BD when it's implemented.
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#116
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8/5/07 at 9:42am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

"Again, funny the stills don't have the grain."

You do realize that the stills are shot by a separate photographer with a still camera, and are not taken from the frames of 35mm movie film, right? So there's no reason why they should look identical, right?
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#117
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8/5/07 at 6:53pm
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Nobody seems to carry this movie. Target didnt' have it, even though they have other HD DVD titles.


Blegh. Comes UPS Tuesday.




My expectations on Jurassic Park in HD. I better fricken BE THERE!
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#118
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8/5/07 at 10:13pm
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed St. Clair
So, not shot digitally.
However, "digital" grain added?

(Is it possible to get ANYTHING right on the web?!?!?!?! ;-) )
JJ

I like how the stills & posters for 300 don't show the grain that's on the film.
Who's running the asylum???

EDitEDbyED:

Is the graphic novel "grainy"?
Always (well, since seeing the film) want to know that, thanks.
Again, funny the stills don't have the grain.

reEDitEDbyED:
Did some research, for myself.
Well, to me, the movie "looks" nothing like the film.
Yes, the shot by shot, is very close. However, the colors, light & graininess of the graphic novel & film are nothing alike (to me).
Graphic novel is BRIGHT by comparison. And is not at all "grainy".

So, I can't see at all were people say the "look" (yes, again, the scenes are very close) is alike.
I don't see it.
(I do like/prefer the general look/style of the film, however)

Having seen the Picture in Picture feature I would love to see a finished version of the film with out the crushed blacks and color processing.

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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#119
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8/5/07 at 10:14pm
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Averry
Nobody seems to carry this movie. Target didnt' have it, even though they have other HD DVD titles.


Blegh. Comes UPS Tuesday.

Its probably sold out. When I went to get it around 7pm on the day of release they had 2 copies left.

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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#120
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8/6/07 at 10:10am
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Re: A few words about...™ 300 -- in HD & BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Its probably sold out. When I went to get it around 7pm on the day of release they had 2 copies left.

Doug


It's possible, but if you knew where I lived. I'm lucky to have any HD discs anywhere in stock.




My expectations on Jurassic Park in HD. I better fricken BE THERE!
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