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BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

#151
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9/4/08 at 7:22am
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Now, if Jack's older brother Joe had lived and become President, I wonder if Joe would have garnered as many enemies as Jack did. I doubt it, as Joe was more like his father than Jack - Jack was an idealist, while Joe was a pragmatist. Joe was the "go along with the popular idea" kind of guy, most likely causing nuclear war in 1962, while Jack prevented it.

Jack may have had to die by becoming President, but he saved millions of lives by doing so.

"The power of love will keep you home at night" -Huey Lewis & The News

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#152
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9/4/08 at 11:25am
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

God you really do need to read some history. Jack Kennedy an idealist? It is to laugh. Kennedy was a tough-as-nails Boston pol, cynical to the tips of his manicured fingertips. Joe jr. was something of an amiable dunce, far less like his father than either brother Jack or brother Bobby was. It is extremely unlikely that even Joe, Sr. could have pushed his eldest son into the White House. All the accounts I've read of the eldest son suggest he lacked the political "fire in the belly" that drove his father and brothers.

And it was JFK's own weakness and vacillation that created the Cuban Missle Crisis in the first place. He failed to get the obsolete missles out of Turkey (the secret trade he finally made with Nikita K) and he was so addled at the Vienna summit (mostly thanks to the drug cocktail that "Dr. Feelgood" had him taking) that the Soviets were convinced that he'd have to accept a fait accompli - especially after his loss of nerve at the Bay of Pigs. You really don't deserve credit for stopping a bomb from going off when you're the one who lit the fuse in the first place.

There have been a number of recent books - some based on declassified U.S. documents and on Soviet-era files that were briefly made available to scholars during the brief thaw between the fall of the U.S.S.R. and the rise of Putin that correct the romanticized view of the events of October 1962 first put forth by Robert Kennedy and later picked up by other JFK haigiographers.

I'd say something about your characterization of Joe Kennedy, Sr. as an amiable "go along to get along" type, but I'm laughing too hard to type straight. Let me put it this way: if Viagra had been around in the Ambassador's day and he'd taken any - he would have gotten taller.

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Joe
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#153
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9/4/08 at 7:28pm
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

A quick Google search ran up this:

Quote:
On June 4, 1963, a virtually unknown Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, was signed with the authority to basically strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest. With the stroke of a pen, President Kennedy declared that the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank would soon be out of business. The Christian Law Fellowship has exhaustively researched this matter through the Federal Register and Library of Congress. We can now safely conclude that this Executive Order has never been repealed, amended, or superceded by any subsequent Executive Order. In simple terms, it is still valid.

Source.

EDIT:

Read the rest of the article.

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#154
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9/5/08 at 6:01am
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph DeMartino
I'd say something about your characterization of Joe Kennedy, Sr. as an amiable "go along to get along" type, but I'm laughing too hard to type straight.
Regards,

Joe

I said Joe, Jr. was the "go along type." He did whatever his father said, and believed what his father believed. This is not to say that the other children didn't go along with whatever Joe Sr wanted, but they all had their own points of view, and that differenciated them from Joe, Jr. Joe Sr was antisemitic, then so was Joe Jr.

Joe Jr may have lacked that certain credential for politics - intelligence and "fire in the belly," as you so put it, but with his father pulling the strings, it would not have been impossible for Joe Jr to achieve the highest office in the country. Heck, he was slated to fill a big political office right after the war... I forget if it was for Governor or for Mayor, but it was for one of those positions. After that, the White House.

Jack, himself, said he was going to be some kind of teacher. Guess again.

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#155
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9/5/08 at 6:04am
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyg2
A quick Google search ran up this:



Source.

EDIT:

Read the rest of the article.

That's a stylized interpretation of that Executive order. Similar to the interpretations of tax law that put Wesley Snipes in jail. The fact that it's also listed on a page discussing (cue scary music) - The Illuminati - is all the Google searching I need to see.

Here's some good advice - Believe half of what you see, 1/4 of what you hear, 1/8 of what you read, and zero of what you read on an internet conspiracy page.
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#156
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9/5/08 at 2:15pm
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Yeah, but that's not my point. According to that quote, JFK signed an executive order to get the country's money produced from the National Treasury, rather than the Federal Reserve, am I correct?

If I am correct, than my previous post:

Quote:
Wasn't this the same guy that wanted to rid the country of the Federal Reserve Private Bank and the Internal Revenue Service? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Was also correct, right?

Without the Federal Reserve, we wouldn't need the IRS, so that executive order would kill two birds with one stone. It's a shame, really, that this man died before he could actually reverse the damage caused by switching to paper "money" that's currently the reason why our dollar is worth so little. Our country is pretty much the Federal Reserve's puppet. All they have to do is cut off printing, and our country will go back into another great depression.

"You idiots! What ever made you think paper was worth so much?"

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#157
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9/5/08 at 3:02pm
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyg2
Yeah, but that's not my point. According to that quote, JFK signed an executive order to get the country's money produced from the National Treasury, rather than the Federal Reserve, am I correct?

If I am correct, than my previous post:



Was also correct, right?

Without the Federal Reserve, we wouldn't need the IRS, so that executive order would kill two birds with one stone. It's a shame, really, that this man died before he could actually reverse the damage caused by switching to paper "money" that's currently the reason why our dollar is worth so little. Our country is pretty much the Federal Reserve's puppet. All they have to do is cut off printing, and our country will go back into another great depression.

"You idiots! What ever made you think paper was worth so much?"

Holy Jesus, please don't procreate. I've heard a lot of things in my life but "Without the Federal Reserve, we wouldn't need the IRS" takes the cake. Bobby - Go to school. Stay off the internet. Learn something, for the love of God, learn something.
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#158
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9/5/08 at 4:09pm
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Bring back William Jennings Bryan I say!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew Crippen
Bring back William Jenning Bryan I say!
¡Time is not my master!
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#159
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9/5/08 at 4:33pm
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Quote:
Holy Jesus, please don't procreate. I've heard a lot of things in my life but "Without the Federal Reserve, we wouldn't need the IRS" takes the cake. Bobby - Go to school. Stay off the internet. Learn something, for the love of God, learn something.

You're right.

There's never been a conspiracy, about anything. Even when people are arrested, the police didn't take them away because they had probable cause that they were conspiring to break the law.

The pharmaceutical companies are not trying to kill us! Every last one of those calories/fats are needed! The news isn't lying to us, they never lie to us! The Government has never lied to us! I mean, come on, why would they lie? They love us! I can't believe I believed all of that "conspiracy" crap!

The love of money is the root of all good! - Bad Opinions 12:3.

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#160
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9/5/08 at 6:03pm
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A request by me to those who want to take this
thread off-topic (or at least mostly off-topic):

Please shut up.

Or: start up your own separate forum thread to continue your quarrel (which is a battle that seems to be getting a little too "personal" in nature).

I request this due to the fact that I am the person who started this thread in July 2007, and I desperately do not want it closed by the moderators (due to continual bickering and sniping over "politics" or some other matters that HTF deems over-the-top and/or "off limits" in these forums).

Because if it gets closed, then the "EDIT" buttons disappear for all time too, and I don't want that to happen, since I still like to edit and fine-tune my Bugliosi book review every now and then).

Thank you,
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#161
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9/6/08 at 9:09pm
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Since things have calmed down, I hope it's alright to post this. Be sure to read the post above mine, everyone.

I've heard good things about a comic book called 100 Bullets, so I decided to try a couple of back issues. I picked them solely based on liking the cover art, with one showing a baseball player holding a rifle. Turns out the writing was top notch and the two issues were excellent, but the baseball story was extremely preposterous.

Let me give a little background first. The basic premise of the book is that someone was wronged in some way, and a mysterious man shows up with a briefcase containing incontrovertible proof of who wronged them and an unregistered handgun with untraceable bullets. The chance for perfect revenge, in other words.

No names are given in the baseball story, but an elderly baseball player reflects on the deal he was offered. He had been a star player, married to the most glamorous woman in the world. She apparently died of a drug overdose, but the evidence in the briefcase offered ironclad proof that she had been murdered by a very powerful man. The star player decided to take the deal, and he carried out the hit in . . . can you guess? . . . Dallas. By sheer coincidence, there were two other shooters present, but the baseball player was the one who made the kill.

So, Joe DiMaggio was the man on the grassy knoll. Craziness. But, it was written with style. I'll give it that.
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#162
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9/7/08 at 1:28am
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Good story, Greg. It puts me in mind of this hilarious entry from "The Onion":

http://rt3013.k12.sd.us/event/images/onionnewspaper.jpg

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#163
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11/14/08 at 9:43am
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

The Discovery Channel makes another brave stab at burying the conspiracy theories once and for all in a 45th anniversary special debuting on Sunday night. At least that's what they want you to believe they're doing.

JFK: Inside the Target Car

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Joe
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#164
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11/15/08 at 12:04am
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

More info on the Discovery Channel program:


"JFK: INSIDE THE TARGET CAR" (Discovery Channel Program)(Airing 11/16/2008) - alt.conspiracy.jfk | Google Groups

(Joseph will want to change his "35th" to 45th above.)
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#165
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11/15/08 at 7:13am
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Quote:
(Joseph will want to change his "35th" to 45th above.)

Yes, he will. Either old age is robbing me of the ability to do math in my head or I just couldn't face the fact that an event I lived through happened that long ago.

Regards,

Joe
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#166
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11/17/08 at 10:05am
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

I was very impressed with the Discovery special. They effectively drove the last nail into the coffin of the Grassy Knoll Shooter theory (would have produced wounds totally inconsistent with Kennedy's wounds and would most likely have killed Jackie). I could tell that Jackie would have been hurt by a grassy knoll shooter the moment they showed the view though Yardley's scope.

The results of the grassy knoll test using soft-tip ammo were really horrifying.

Of course, I've come to realize that the whole idea of multiple shooters is logically ridiculous even if there was a conspiracy. Think about it, if their goal was to frame Oswald, the last thing they would do would be use multiple shooters and risk the possibility of evidence pointing in any direction other than the sixth floor. What if there's bullet damage to the front of the car? What if a through-and-through from a frontal shot kills Jackie?

Bottom line, even if there was a conspiracy, there was still only one shooter and he was in the sixth floor window of the book depository.


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#167
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11/17/08 at 10:25am
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Saw the Discovery episode last night. I would love to say it is conclusive, but you can never underestimate the sheer stupidity of a conspiracy theorist. I suppose we'll hear next about replaced windshields and/or Jackie's "bulletproof" pink tweed jacket and kevlar pillbox hat.
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#168
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11/17/08 at 10:44am
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gatie
Saw the Discovery episode last night. I would love to say it is conclusive, but you can never underestimate the sheer stupidity of a conspiracy theorist. I suppose we'll hear next about replaced windshields and/or Jackie's "bulletproof" pink tweed jacket and kevlar pillbox hat.
You'll never convince the conspiracy theorists, but hopefully people will be less vulnerable to their crackpot ideas because of specials like this.


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#169
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11/17/08 at 11:54am
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul McElligott
You'll never convince the conspiracy theorists, but hopefully people will be less vulnerable to their crackpot ideas because of specials like this.

I have to say, I've turned more than a few CT sympathizers into Oswald was the one and only killer supporters, simply by pointing them to the Discovery Channel programs. Some are absolutely hopeless, but there are others who look at it logically and don't have too much of their personal identity wrapped up in conspiracy beliefs.
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#170
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11/17/08 at 12:14pm
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gatie
I have to say, I've turned more than a few CT sympathizers into Oswald was the one and only killer supporters, simply by pointing them to the Discovery Channel programs. Some are absolutely hopeless, but there are others who look at it logically and don't have too much of their personal identity wrapped up in conspiracy beliefs.
That's the difference between "sympathizers" and "believers."


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#171
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11/17/08 at 4:12pm
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

And don't forget that PBS rolls out a new American Experience episode tonight simply called "Oswald's Ghost".

American Experience | PBS

This film is produced by a guy named Stone. No, not Oliver Stone but Robert Stone.

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#172
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11/17/08 at 5:48pm
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gatie
I have to say, I've turned more than a few CT sympathizers into Oswald was the one and only killer supporters, simply by pointing them to the Discovery Channel programs. Some are absolutely hopeless, but there are others who look at it logically and don't have too much of their personal identity wrapped up in conspiracy beliefs.

That Peter Jennings special a few years back helped. Even my father came around (though, since he typically believes the last thing he hears on radio/TV, we're probably one kook away from reversing it).
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#173
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11/17/08 at 5:52pm
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

I went into my gun storage and pulled out my 1938 Carcano, went into my library and pulled out my copy of the Warren Commission Report, and am now all ready for "Oswald's Ghost".

Feline videophiles Susie and Dukie.

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#174
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11/17/08 at 7:28pm
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Nicholls
And don't forget that PBS rolls out a new American Experience episode tonight simply called "Oswald's Ghost".

American Experience | PBS

This film is produced by a guy named Stone. No, not Oliver Stone but Robert Stone.
That's not new. It's been available on DVD for since Jan, but I'm glad they're showing it again, especially now that I have PBS in HD.


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#175
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11/17/08 at 9:04pm
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Quote:
And don't forget that PBS rolls out a new American Experience episode tonight simply called "Oswald's Ghost".

That's not a new film. (Paul beat me to this, above.) It came out in a few theaters in late 2007, and then was shown on PBS in Jan. '08.

Almost all conspiracy believers, naturally, think "Oswald's Ghost" is a pile of horse manure (even though Mark Lane is on camera for a decent chunk of time, espousing his pro-CT views; but this isn't nearly enough to stop the conspiracy-happy theorists from claiming that both PBS and Director Robert Stone were totally biased toward the "lone nut" conclusion in the end).

But R. Stone's "Ghost" is a very good program, IMO. It doesn't provide anything startlingly "new" or earthshaking in nature....but it's a well-done program, detailing JFK's murder and the era of the Cold War surrounding that crime.

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#176
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11/17/08 at 11:44pm
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

David, I'd be very interested in hearing your opinion of "Inside the Target Car" Please tell me you're going to post one of your insanely detailed reviews somewhere.

The Discovery site doesn't say anything about a DVD of this show. I hope they release one.


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#177
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11/18/08 at 12:20am
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Quote:
David, I'd be very interested in hearing your opinion of "Inside the Target Car". Please tell me you're going to post one of your insanely detailed reviews somewhere.

I wasn't able to catch the program on Sunday (Nov. 16). My satellite box is screwed up. (Probably a conspiracy to keep me from seeing it. Can I blame Mark Lane or Jim Fetzer for this?)



Quote:
The Discovery site doesn't say anything about a DVD of this show. I hope they release one.

I hope so, too. Because that's how I plan on seeing the new program. I've got the Discovery Store bookmarked.

I'm pretty confident that the new program will be released on DVD, since all of the other 3 "Unsolved History" installments are on Digital Disc right now. So I can't see any reason for the fourth and final installment to be left out in the cold. (Unless the conspiracy against me has reached all the way into the "Discovery Channel Store", too!)
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#178
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11/18/08 at 1:05am
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Von Pein
I wasn't able to catch the program on Sunday (Nov. 16). My satellite box is screwed up. (Probably a conspiracy to keep me from seeing it. Can I blame Mark Lane or Jim Fetzer for this?)
According to the Discovery Channel site, there are re-runs scheduled for Monday, December 1, so if the mob, the Cubans and the CIA stop messin' with your satellite box by then...


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#179
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11/20/08 at 6:41am
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

REVIEW -- "JFK: Inside The Target Car" (Discovery Channel Documentary)
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#180
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11/20/08 at 10:17am
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Re: BOOK REVIEW -- "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"

David,

Excellent review!

Quote:
Therefore, I'm wondering why the Discovery Channel people even bothered to speculate about those three crazy-as-all-get-out potential shooting locations in the first place? It seemed quite strange that precious time would have been wasted in a 40-plus-minute TV documentary by speculating about such obviously-insane firing positions within Dealey Plaza.
I was also a little puzzled as to the choice of shooting locations. My guess (and it is only a guess) is that Mack could have asked Yardley, a trained sniper, where he would have positioned a shooter if he had been planning the assassination and used his recommendations, rather than relying on the feverish imaginations of the Conspiracy Cult.

Quote:
The Discovery people already had arranged for the police to completely close off Elm Street and Dealey Plaza for a period of time for their initial "looking through the rifle scope" tests (to see whether certain angles within the Plaza were feasible ones or not for the head shot)....so I wonder why they didn't just go the whole nine yards and perform the actual test shots that were fired into the surrogate skulls from Dealey Plaza as well?
After watching the show a couple times, I realized that they had to reposition the limo for each sight test meaning that Dealey Plaza was only being closed for a short time for each test and then reopened. I think that asking the city of Dallas to close off the plaza for the entire day so they could fire live ammo was a little too much to ask. The city might do that for Congress but not the Discovery Channel.

There's one point that these specials, in their enthusiasm to refute the second gunman theory, never address is the absurdity of second gunman in the first place. If I'm conspiring to knock off JFK and Oswald is my selected fall guy, I want all evidence to point right back to him. Another gunman creates the likelihood that the evidence will point in a different direction. Despite what they Conspiracy Cult believes, it's a lot easier to get rid of evidence if it doesn't exist in the first place.

Thus, even if you assume, for the sake of argument, the existence of a conspiracy, the single gunman is still the only model that makes sense.


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