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Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

#271
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

There was a test screening tonight in Chicago, and the spoilers have started leaking out. From the sound of things, it's by far the most radical departure yet (MAJOR book spoilers):
Warning Spoiler! Click to show
  • No Dursleys, no Privet Drive; entirely new opening
    The film begins instead begins with Dumbledore and Harry at the ministry on the night Sirius died, just after OOTP cut to Dumbledore's office. From here it cuts outside to the present, where Death Eaters demolish the Millenium Bridge in downtown London. The camera pulls out and the scene transforms into the moving front page photo of the Daily Prophet, which Harry is reading in at a cafe inside a tube station. Harry has just started flirting with the waitress when a train blows through the station. When the last car passes, Dumbledore is seen standing impressively on the platform. The story then picks up with the book as the pair travel to Slughorn's house. I'll probably end up preferring the intro as written, but not one of the more heartbreaking cuts.
  • Jim Broadbent's portrayal of Slughorn is completely at odds with the book's characterization
    Instead of an insidiously slick, political man, Broadbent plays him as a man crushed under the guilt of giving Voldemort the terrible means to immortality. Those of us hoping for some of the bomast and charisma of his Harold Zidler persona will be disappointed.
  • While Harry is visiting the Weasleys, Belatrix and savage werewolf Fenrir Greyback attack the Burrow.
    This is the scene from the teaser, with Harry running through the marshes and Ginny being disarmed in her bathrobe. It's been covered in the press as a means to make the danger from the newspapers in the book more immediate.
  • The Tonks/Lupin plot line has been cut
    Both characters appear briefly, but their personal drama doesn't make it. One of the easiest cuts to make, since it added nothing to the main thrust of the book.
  • The big spontaneous, very public Harry/Ginny kiss in the Gryfinndor common room does not happen, because the final game has been cut from the film.
    I was really bummed, since this was my favorite moment in the book, but I really like what Kloves came up with instead:
  • They kiss in the Room of Requirement instead
    After Harry literally cuts Draco using the Sectumsempra spell from Half-Blood Prince's textbook, Ginny is disgusted by the parallels to her own crisis with Tom Riddle's diary. She begs him to give it up, and for her he does. They go into the Room of Requirement in the iteration full of hidden objects. Harry closes his eyes so he can't see where she hides the book. With his eyes closed, she kisses him — a real, adult kiss in contrast to Ron's snogging with Lavender. By the time Harry opens his eyes, both book and girl are gone.
  • Harry is not paralyzed under his invisibility cloaks when the Half-Blood Prince kills Dumbledore
    Instead he is trapped behind a physical barrier, and views the event through the gaps in the boards. I can understand the logic here, too; non-readers would have been wondering why Harry just stood by and didn't do anything while his father figure is struck down.
  • The funeral for Dumbledore has been cut
    Much like the last two films, this one moves from climax to resolution far more quickly than the novel.

    Other thoughts from the people who were lucky enough to attend:
    • Michael Gambon's performance as Dumbledore was much improved. He plays the character quieter and gentler than in the last three movies. As a result, Dumbledore's death really hits home.
    • The editing is a radical improvement from the "staccato" cutting of OOTP. This is the best news of all for me, since the editing was perhaps my biggest complaint with that film.
Nothing in there is a dealbreaker for me in and of itself Goblet of Fire is probably the most dramatic departure so far, and it's also my favorite. Excepting Slughorn, all of the changes seem in keeping with the spirit of the book, if not the letter. It's hard to say whether Michael Goldenberg's screenplay really was that bad, or if Yates simply edited all of the meat out of it. Assuming it was that bad to begin with, we should have nothing to worry about here.
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#272
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

I would agree that we have nothing to worry about, except that it's Yates, so I imagine it to be a lot worse than even those rather disconcerting spoilers suggest.
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#273
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Umph...well...

Since PoA is my favorite HOP and OOP is my second favorite, I see nothing to trouble me overmuch in Adam's spoiler list. I quite liked Yate's take of OOP. (I didn't care for Newell's GoF.)

I'm even looking forward to Broadbent's Slughorn.
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#274
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

I read the reviews over at AICN, and yeesh. I'm a bit worried.


Warning Spoiler! Click to show
According to reviews, the mystery of the Half Blood Prince/Voldemort's history is pushed to the side in favor of the teen romance/comedy aspect of the novel. Also, the ending is rushed. There's no battle with the Death Eaters. Instead, it just ends as the Death Eaters get away, while Snape's reveal has little impact. Additionally, there's no emotional closure as the funeral is cut and Dumbledore's death isn't really felt.


I don't know how far these changes go, but the reviewers expressed hope that Warners would use the extra months to do some reshoots and retool the movie's ending a bit. These reports kinda conflict with the more optimistic review that Adam posted about. But I don't know if I can give the filmmakers the benefit of the doubt.

"Here's looking at you, kid."
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#275
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire Panke
Umph...well...

Since PoA is my favorite HOP and OOP is my second favorite, I see nothing to trouble me overmuch in Adam's spoiler list. I quite liked Yate's take of OOP. (I didn't care for Newell's GoF.)

This is pretty much how I feel, but I am still concerned based upon the early reports. Maybe it is a good thing they have the extra time. Then again, test screenings and changes seem to lead to disasters as much as they lead to improvements.
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#276
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Regarding David Yates and the lack of emotion


Warning Spoiler! Click to show
during Dumbledore's death goes hand in hand with how he shot the death of Sirius Black. I was hoping it would be different this time around but I'm not sure Yates knows how to shoot the emotional side of things. Just look at the fall of Gandalf in Fellowship of the Ring. Even though we know he comes back that scene is one of the best "death" scenes ever captured on film which is what I was hoping for Dumbledore.
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#277
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray H
I read the reviews over at AICN, and yeesh. I'm a bit worried.


Warning Spoiler! Click to show
According to reviews, the mystery of the Half Blood Prince/Voldemort's history is pushed to the side in favor of the teen romance/comedy aspect of the novel. Also, the ending is rushed. There's no battle with the Death Eaters. Instead, it just ends as the Death Eaters get away, while Snape's reveal has little impact. Additionally, there's no emotional closure as the funeral is cut and Dumbledore's death isn't really felt.

Warning Spoiler! Click to show
I'm actually happy the teen romance is emphasized over the Voldemort backstory, because after the wet rag that was Order of the Pheonix, I could actually use a fun breather before plunging into the dark, stormy waters of Deathly Hallows. The biggest problem with the Voldemort flashbacks from a cinematic standpoint is that they involve the protagonist standing around on screen doing nothing. You can sort of sell it with the flashbacks they kept, with Dumbledore and Slughorn, but the other ones would have screeched the movie to a halt. I think that's why the Gaunts and the old lady with the locket were cut, moreso than even for time. It would have felt like stepping into a completely different movie.
Quote:
re: the ending
Warning Spoiler! Click to show
I don't know how far these changes go, but the reviewers expressed hope that Warners would use the extra months to do some reshoots and retool the movie's ending a bit. These reports kinda conflict with the more optimistic review that Adam posted about. But I don't know if I can give the filmmakers the benefit of the doubt.
If any of the criticisms hit home its this one. A lot of the problems in Order of the Phoenix can be attributed to the screenplay, assuming that what was written is what was filmed. But the editing is in Yates's corner. And one of my biggest criticisms of that film was how abruptly it ended after the climax. From the sound of all the reviews, Half-Blood Prince ends almost directly after the climax, with the surviving characters still experiencing their immediate reaction. I'm not saying we need the lengthy resolution from the book, but after a moment that big there needs to be time to reflect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidPla
Regarding David Yates and the lack of emotion


Warning Spoiler! Click to show
during Dumbledore's death goes hand in hand with how he shot the death of Sirius Black. I was hoping it would be different this time around but I'm not sure Yates knows how to shoot the emotional side of things. Just look at the fall of Gandalf in Fellowship of the Ring. Even though we know he comes back that scene is one of the best "death" scenes ever captured on film which is what I was hoping for Dumbledore.
To be fair to David Yates with Sirius's death in Order of the Phoenix, that's pretty much how it was written. Sirius was tossed off pretty quickly and abruptly. The failing in that case came criminally shortening the scene in Dumbledore's office where Harry just loses it. From these reviews,
Warning Spoiler! Click to show
that doesn't seem to be the case here. Immediately after chasing off Draco and the Half-Blood Prince, he goes to Dumbledore's body on the ground and breaks down crying. This leads to the resolution of one of the film's teen romances (and easily the most serious and adult one in the entire series), where Kloves has turned Ginny into Harry's shoulder to cry on. This, to me is just perfect -- something I'd been looking for from the book. As the Chosen One basically dissolves into a blubbering mess, she holds him even while destroyed by what happened herself. It's certainly not a happy ending, but it is an emotional and affirming one.
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#278
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

I was hoping they'd include more of the book's resolution, especially the...


Warning Spoiler! Click to show
...funeral. I just felt it was perfectly handled in the book. It felt complete and especially the last moments left the book with a feeling of whatever in the world is gonna happen next? The future of Hogwarts is in doubt, and regardless, the kids will abandon their schooling to complete the task Dumbledore appointed for them. Ending right after the climax seems too abrupt and just leaves the door a bit too wide open. And the story's just too big to end on Harry breaking down and sobbing. What about the other characters? The staff? The future of the school? The magic community at large? What's the point of introducing these things if you're not gonna follow through? I mean Cedric's death in GOF will have had more impact for the school and the magic community in these films than Dumbledore's. I suppose they can touch upon it in movies 7a &7b, but it'll seem a little too late.

"Here's looking at you, kid."
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#279
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
To be fair to David Yates with Sirius's death in Order of the Phoenix, that's pretty much how it was written. Sirius was tossed off pretty quickly and abruptly. The failing in that case came criminally shortening the scene in Dumbledore's office where Harry just loses it.
This is why I wish JK Rowling was more hands on with the movies. She could've said stuff like "Yeah, the veil thing doesn't really go anywhere in the later books so no need to confuse the audience" or "Grawp really doesn't amount to anything in the series, so you can probably save the 10 minutes or so and give it to something else" or even "Hmmm. Maybe we should actually see that other character in Snape's worst memory. It's sort of the point."

"Here's looking at you, kid."
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#280
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

The thing I dislike about Yates is that he just doesn't get it, imo. I think Cuaron understood the appealing nature of the fantasy and he knew how to bend with and blend into that world. Columbus was just bowled over by it and put it on screen in a verbatim manner, which is a bit stilted but works. Newell absolutely understood who the characters are and how they relate to each other more than anyone else. Yates absolutely understands the need to have a movie shorter than 2 hours and 15 minutes. That's all he gets. He doesn't like the books, I don't think he cares for the characters because he's more interested in getting it over with than in telling the story in the best way that serves the story and characters.
If Yates were directing lord of the Rings we'd get no "you shall not pass" dialogue/scene just a long shot receding from gandalf thumping a glowing stick into the ground and then both fall into a pit. then the hobbits get outside, and the movie's over. no lothlorien, no encounter with Boromir, the Sam and Frodo don't split off. they just get out of the cave and the movie's done with because once the climax is over that's all that matters, we got the thing over with now we're finally done with this silliness.
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#281
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Once again, though, we're judging from a total of one movie. There are definitely areas of the AICN reviews that troubled me in ways that the other reviews didn't. That being said, the areas they complained steal too much of the focus in the movie were among my favorite parts of the book. Particularly after the dreariness of Order of the Phoenix, I'm glad to hear Yates is indulging in some whimsy this time out.

That being said, I'm giving the film every possible benefit of the doubt, because I really, really want to like it. If this film ends up bollocksed too, I can pretty much give up on the two Deathly Hallows films to come. This is my biggest complaint with bringing Yates back again and again, even setting aside that I didn't like his first entry in the series. With a constantly rotating pool of directors, it didn't matter if any one film was a dud. The next film would be a fresh start and a fresh opportunity. Now if you don't like Yates, you're done with the series. He's a kid with the biggest train set in the world, and he doesn't want to give it up even though it'd be better for the train set if he did.
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#282
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
And one of my biggest criticisms of that film was how abruptly it ended after the climax. From the sound of all the reviews, Half-Blood Prince ends almost directly after the climax, with the surviving characters still experiencing their immediate reaction. I'm not saying we need the lengthy resolution from the book, but after a moment that big there needs to be time to reflect.
Since Deathly Hallows is being split into two movies, maybe they will carry the events from the end of Half-Blood Prince into the beginning of the first Deathly Hallows movie (or use it as a flashback later in the movie).

Neil
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#283
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilO
Since Deathly Hallows is being split into two movies, maybe they will carry the events from the end of Half-Blood Prince into the beginning of the first Deathly Hallows movie (or use it as a flashback later in the movie).
It's possible. But I'm not concerned about losing the event itself, which is filler except for one crucial plot detail. I'm concerned about losing the space to breathe that gives the climax its impact. You can't just slap the audience across the face and then cut to credits.
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#284
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

What I get from those AICN reviews really scares the hrell out of me. They might have finally dropped the ball completely. The last film was not a success. It was just OK and a big step down compared to the films that came before and the deletions taking place, especially at the end of the film, are mind numbingly dumb.

The delay until next Summer may be a blessing in disguise. This thing needs reshoots. The stuff with the finale is truly distressing and can even give away a big secret to the final film to movie viewers who are not familiar with the books, but smart film watchers.

Death to PG-13! And now death to DVNR too!!

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#285
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Adam,

I gotta say, after reading those spoilers about this screening, I gotta give Yates and Kloves credit for making the climax of Hallows much more important and much more epic with cutting out half of the climax of this film.

I mean, the most interesting thing they've done was make Voldemort's plan much more stealth than compared to the book. I always felt, especially after reading Hallows, that the action bits at the end of Prince at Hogwarts were a tad unneccessary. Here, they just focus on what happens to Dumbledore and how the principal people in Dumbledore's circle feel after the climax. Cinematically, it makes sense.

The trouble with Rowling's endings after the climaxes (starting with Azkaban) was they were too long winded. Great for the book, terrible for film. This is one of the reasons why I wasn't so upset with the ending of Phoenix and not doing the full Lost Prophecy. Granted, he could've done maybe a minute or two more but I think he nailed it just about right, considering how emotional and thrillng I felt the climax of Phoenix was. It was much more emotional than the book.

But, at the same time, by adding that new sequence in the Burrow, it's kind of the climax this book has. Clearly, this changed was influence by what they knew about Hallows before they started shooting (especially, what Kloves knew while writing the script).

I can see his logic for not having two battles at Hogwarts in back to back film. It technically makes sense, that's why I'm glad they've made Voldemort's plan, again, more stealth like. And by
Warning Spoiler! Click to show
revealing the Dark Mark
after all of this has taken place, it signals to the characters and the audience that the real, physical war of the wizarding world is about to begin.

Again, I can give Kloves made credit for doing this. To me, it just makes sense.
"Because he's the hero Gotham deserves.  But, not the one it needs right now.  So, we'll hunt.  Because he can take.  Because, he's not a hero.  He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector.  A DARK KNIGHT."
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#286
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

I liked OOPT. It was actually one of my favorites of the films(which is a compliment becuase the book was one of my least favs), but I find the info above to be disappointing.

Seems like too much is being glossed over.
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#287
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

The main problem I see with the synopses so far is that a few of the main "emotional pivot points" of the sixth book seem to have been altered or omitted:


Warning Spoiler! Click to show

1. Slughorn's Personality - listen to Jim Dale's performance of this book to see what you might be missing. His character is supposed to have his angst bottled under good-natured frivolity.
2. The memory sequences - all of which are very cinematic, and necessary in understanding the antagonist of the series. Granted, all the reviews seem to be saying is that they are not focused upon. Still...
3. Harry's Lucky Evening, culminating in the kiss - my favorite chapter of the book, perhaps the whole series, and apparently different in the adaptation.
4. Dumbledore's Funeral - really? One of the most emotional and memorable scenes from the ENTIRE SERIES?


I don't even mind the alteration of the beginning of the story - I think it's kind of clever actually. When you adapt a book you have to make the tough choices - but at least get the skeletal frame of the story right, and include the proper "moments". In between those moments you can do what you like.

I'm not presuming to be able to do a better job than the adapters, but they may have gotten so close to the material that they forgot that basic rule.

I hope that (as hinted above) Gambon can finally show us the concerned, wise, loving, slightly amused side of Dumbledore. All he's shown so far is serious panic and intense concern. The end of the fifth movie faltered because there was simply no emotional release - the scene with Harry and Dumbledore in the book, after Sirius dies, was the emotional climax of the story, filled with rage and love, and it was omitted for a brief chat and an even briefer (and disingenuous) "apology". I know many of you enjoy Gambon's stirring performance, but to me he still has the character of Dumbledore all wrong.
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#288
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Steve,

After the climax between Voldemort and Dumbledore and then Voldemort and Harry in Phoenix, there was no way to do that last chapter justice. It was just way too long to begin with...

It made sense that the climax was the emotional part, not afterwards. We didn't need to have a "Return of the King" kind of ending and that would've happened if the Lost Prophecy was done like in the book.
"Because he's the hero Gotham deserves.  But, not the one it needs right now.  So, we'll hunt.  Because he can take.  Because, he's not a hero.  He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector.  A DARK KNIGHT."
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#289
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Sorry, you could not be more wrong. Good writing and directing is all we need in order to include that part of the book, easily one of the most important parts of ALL the books. Losing it is akin to cutting out the ending of THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. It's lunacy.

My only hope is that there are reshoots for this film. Also, it is certainly possible they plan on using that important scene as the opener to the next film. Since they are splitting the final book into two parts that would make sense.

I just wish they would bring on a powerful filmmaker. Yates is not cutting it for me. I was not impressed with his work on the last film and now I greatly fear what he is doing with the films to come. There are many great directors out there who could finish this franchise on a high note.

Death to PG-13! And now death to DVNR too!!

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#290
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory S.
Steve,

After the climax between Voldemort and Dumbledore and then Voldemort and Harry in Phoenix, there was no way to do that last chapter justice. It was just way too long to begin with...

It made sense that the climax was the emotional part, not afterwards. We didn't need to have a "Return of the King" kind of ending and that would've happened if the Lost Prophecy was done like in the book.


I agree. I thought the climax of OOP was both intense and emotional. I would not like to see the funeral included in HBP - too anti-climactic.
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#291
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Claire! Please use spoiler tags. Everyone has been very careful not to mention
Warning Spoiler! Click to show
Dumbledore's death
. We have to assume that not everbody has read the books.
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#292
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Tried to put in spoiler tags but could not get them to come upm and still can't.

Although I find it hard to believe anyone doesn't know about this particular spoiler after all this time.
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#293
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

I apologize in advance if this turns into a rant, but I've been worrying about these issues for a while now and this me trying to come to grips with them.

One of the biggest worries I have of the films is how they portray Snape. He's a very important character and yet I don't think they've done enough to set him up in the films. In the books, we know by the end of GOF that he'll be using his old connections to the Death Eaters to infiltrate them and act as a double agent of Dumbledore's behalf. This is probably the crux of HBP - the mystery of is he or isn't he?

In the film of GOF, it's implied that Snape was chummy with Death Eaters (the scene where Harry sees him arguing with Karkaroff). In OOTP, there's a brief scene where we find out that Snape is part of the Order. And that's essentially the extent that the audience knows about what he's up to. His whole storyline has been poorly handled. Unless they do some major exposition, they could potentially ignore his capacity as a double agent and that he was once a Death Eater - the very things which cast his allegiance in doubt. So far, aside from his loathing of Harry, there's no reason to doubt that he's good.

This all leads me to another big plotpoint in HBP that I hope makes it in...


Warning Spoiler! Click to show
...when Harry learns that it was Snape that overheard the prophecy, reported it to Voldemort, and thus caused the death of Harry's parents. It's a pretty big whopper. And I hope they do include it as well as the scene(s) where Harry debates Snape's allegiance with Dumbledore.


But wait a minute! They never mentioned anything about the circumstances regarding the Prophecy in OOTP. So how would they even begin to broach the subject in this movie? Ugh. Not only did leaving out that scene with Dumbledore in OOTP contribute to that film's failed resolution, it'll probably hinder this movie as well (more on that later).

These early reviews seem to indicate that the mystery of the Half Blood Prince is barely important to the movie and its resolution is sort of done as an aside rather than a big reveal. Not only that, Snape apparently has very little to do in this one and his big moments toward the end of the book have been turned into relative non-moments. For those who've read the Deathly Hallows, Snape is very important to that book but also has very little face time.

So they've generally ignored some of the most fascinating things about Snape so far (and likely will continue to do so) and have apparently thrown much of his story in this film to the background. So how do they hope to tackle his role in DH, where he actually has relatively little to do? There's another HUGE part of Snape's story that'll crop up in DH, which runs the risk of seeming out of the blue since they fumbled they're chance to introduce it in the last film. But I don't really fault them since it may have seemed unimportant to the filmmakers at the time.

Also - since POA, the lack of resolution (as in the big expository scene towards the end) has, I felt, hindered the movies. Sure, they're still fun, but they can never be independent of the books because they lack the necessary resolution to be a complete experience. I like how the first two movies worked as mysteries. Clues are sprinkled throughout, and through the course of the movie, the pieces of the puzzle come together. But since POA, the clues and questions have only served as a springboard for stuff to happen. If you re-read the books, you'll notice the questions are brought up in the films but they're never answered. They make a big deal of Sirius escaping Azkaban and even go so far to say how impossible it is. But it's never explained how he did it. Likewise, how they hell did Barty Crouch Jr escape? I doubt they even tried explaining that one, hoping the momentum of the finale would get us to forget about it. As mentioned before, the importance of the Prophecy is never explained, making the whole thing a rather pointless MacGuffin and potentially harming the upcoming films as well.

While the resolutions make take a while in the novel, they allow for a sort of release. Each film presents a big mystery, and the resolutions allow us to take a step back and take it all in. While they tend to feel like the same old scene (Harry typically standing in Dumbledore's office and hearing him explain things for 30 pages), they're still very important. They're big, mythology building scenes. The series is big on character, but the mythology is what keeps it going. What do I mean by mythology? Stuff like why Voldemort wanted to kill Harry, the roles certain characters (Snape, Trelawney, Dumbledore, even Voldemort) had in bringing upon the events that helped shape the world that the characters live in, and what it all means for Harry. These seem to be ignored in the movies. Some may view it as trivial or tedious. But really, it's the big picture.

That's another thing as well. We hear about omissions or see them firsthand and it's naturally assumed that since it was important to the film, they'd surely bring it up at a more convenient time. But they never do because there never is a more convenient time to handle these things. That's why they were where they were in the book. So if they, for example, cut the last chapter of HBP from this movie, why would they include it in the next movie?

"Here's looking at you, kid."
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#294
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray H
So if they, for example, cut the last chapter of HBP from this movie, why would they include it in the next movie?
Because they need to stretch a book that is no longer than the previous three over two full-length movies?
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#295
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
Because they need to stretch a book that is no longer than the previous three over two full-length movies?

It's not that simple, those books may have been as long, but that doesn't mean as much happened in them. You know full well the last book is nothing like the rest of the series, some of which is brim with filler and quidditch match after quidditch match.

There's also a big problem in that the most common elements that have been cut from the films are the ones that were slowly building to the final act. This is, IMO, the absolute worst aspect of these adaptions, each one has been made with absolutely no thought to the series as a whole.

In theory by splitting up the last book it would give them a chance to catch up the development of characters like Jenny, Dobby, Narcissa, Tonks & Lupin, the Weasleys, etc. etc., all the characters who's fates are very important to the final moments of the series and yet will mean virtually nothing at this point. If you could begin to introduce these elements over two films it would go a long way towards making it feel as if the series was building to something, like it did in the books.

Unfortunately I don't expect them to do that at all, they'll just present the events as they happened and not give a shit about the fact that none of the previous films gave any context to it at all.

"Because he's the hero that Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now... and so we'll hunt him... because he can take it... because he's not a hero... he's a silent guardian, a watchful protector... a DARK KNIGHT."

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#296
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack Gibbs
It's not that simple, those books may have been as long, but that doesn't mean as much happened in them. You know full well the last book is nothing like the rest of the series, some of which is brim with filler and quidditch match after quidditch match.
You're absolutely right. Those other books have things happen the entire way through. The seventh book
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has them wandering around aimlessly through the woods for the entire first half.
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#297
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
Because they need to stretch a book that is no longer than the previous three over two full-length movies?
The way I see it, it's similar to Saruman getting cut from ROTK. The scene never should've been in ROTK in the first place, but they decided to cut it from the end of TTT because they felt it got in the way at the end of the movie. But by pushing it to the beginning of ROTK, they realized all they were doing was wrapping up the events of the last film and they really needed to move forward.

While they do have what could be length issues for the upcoming two DH films, I just can't see them opening at the end of year 6 and then flashing forward to the beginning of year 7. They certainly could, but it would break the structure and rhythm they've established in the past 5/6 movies. Unless they use the scene as a real springboard for the rest of DH, they may realize that they're essentially wrapping up film 6. The scene as it appears in the book is a natural way to resolve the events of movie 6 and even hint at what's to come. I don't think it'll work quite the same way at the beginning of film 7. But more importantly, I feel film 6 will suffer due to its omission/speculative move.

I guess another thing about these movies is I don't think they're handled with quite the love that they deserve. They've been Warner's top franchise and yet they've been treated more like product as opposed to something special. It goes with the constant trying to get the movies as short as possible and the hiring of a work-man like TV director to finish off the series. Yates isn't terrible, but as of yet, I don't think he brings anything exciting to the films. OOTP turned out to be a relatively by-the-numbers and dull movie adaptation to me, even with Yates hiding behind an extraordinary cinematographer (which he has the benefit of doing this time as well).

But also, as mentioned countless times before, many of these criticisms about omitting too much could have easily been handled with a good extended edition DVD or something. But Warners just failed to see that as an option and perhaps it's too late for them to plan for something like that.

"Here's looking at you, kid."
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#298
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

To their credit, WB has apparently tried to hire heavier hitters, especially courting Guillermo del Toro among others. GDT turned down PoA, but encouraged Cuaron and Wb to get together. WB wanted GDT for the DH, but Guillermo got a better gig I hear.

I don't think WB has ever treated the series as anything other than a franchise. They don't seem to realize that the fan base is no longer 12 year olds (nor was it ever restricted to just kids). With the wonderful cast it's a shame they didn't do a bit more with the series.
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#299
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray H
While they do have what could be length issues for the upcoming two DH films, I just can't see them opening at the end of year 6 and then flashing forward to the beginning of year 7. They certainly could, but it would break the structure and rhythm they've established in the past 5/6 movies. Unless they use the scene as a real springboard for the rest of DH, they may realize that they're essentially wrapping up film 6.
To me, it would make perfect sense to do it in this case:
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The romance between Fleur and Bill has been totally removed from Half-Blood Prince. Rather than opening at the wedding and plunging into things, it'd make sense to use Dumbledore's funeral instead. The funeral would be an arguably more logical place for the trio to inherit their three items from Dumbledore, and the compromised Ministry could sweep in for that just as easily as the wedding. The characters end up in the same place once the shit hits the fan.
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#300
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Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Huh. That sounds like a pretty good idea, but the timing may be off.


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By the time the wedding takes place in the book, Dumbledore's been dead for a few months and this time allows for the decay of the Ministry and the surge in power of Voldemort's forces. But I suppose they could postpone the funeral by a few months or make Voldemort's grip on the Ministry in HBP a bit more apparent or just go for complete shock and awe in that sequence.

"Here's looking at you, kid."
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