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Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

#181
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8/29/08 at 8:38pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Did they shoot each frame of Sleeping Beauty 3 times with color filters to produce technicolor negatives as was done with the previous Technicolor features? I guess I assumed being a Super Technirama 70 film, it would have been shot with an Eastman color negative.

Doug
Classic Disney animation shot on Eastmancolor? HERESY! Keep in mind that Technirama 70 was a distribution format, not a filming format. Technirama 70 films were shot on 35mm 8-perf, then printed on 70mm, and Disney had successive exposure down to a science @ this point.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#182
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8/29/08 at 9:58pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I'm pretty sure the motion picture industry switched over to safety film around 1948. It seems highly unlikely that Sleeping Beauty would have been photographed on nitrate film stock.

Oddly enough, Looney Tunes shot on nitrate were released up through 1952. Not sure if it's due to backlog, but they did have many nitrate Tech prints up until 1953. Seems like most late 1951-1952 shorts shot on nitrate were released on safety. One 1953 short even has an existing nitrate print. (All of this not 100% verified, but from what I can find on UCLA's site)

Tell The Weinstein Company to release Richard Williams' animated masterpiece The Thief and the Cobbler on DVD in Panavision widescreen and uncut! See and hear what you're missing from their Bitsy Award winner of Worst Standard Edition DVD of 2006 on YouTube!
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#183
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8/30/08 at 2:39am
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
Classic Disney animation shot on Eastmancolor? HERESY! Keep in mind that Technirama 70 was a distribution format, not a filming format. Technirama 70 films were shot on 35mm 8-perf, then printed on 70mm, and Disney had successive exposure down to a science @ this point.


Yeah I know how Technirama works, but I wasn't sure when Disney switched from photographing their animated films in the successive exposure method, to simply using Eastman Color. I know they did at some point, just not sure when. I assumed they phased it out about the same time as live action 3 strip went away.

Doug
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#184
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8/30/08 at 2:42am
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick McCart
Oddly enough, Looney Tunes shot on nitrate were released up through 1952. Not sure if it's due to backlog, but they did have nitrate Tech prints up until 1951. Seems like all late 1951-1952 shorts shot on nitrate were released on safety. One 1953 short even has an existing nitrate print. (All of this not 100% verified, but from what I can find on UCLA's site)


Hmmmmmm Interesting. My understanding was that nitrate had pretty much been phased out by 1948, but I suppose it might have hung around for a few years after that, particularly for budget strapped productions like the Looney Tunes cartoons were.

Doug
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#185
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8/30/08 at 9:15am
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
It is usually best to allow one's archivist to make statements regarding technical issues.

I doubt very much that Kodak made a special nitrate base for Disney specifically for the OCN of Sleeping Beauty, which was shot on black & white negative, not color stock.

I believe Mr. Ho misspoke in regard to multiple tech issues. Not a terrible thing, as for a brief moment, it took some people's minds away from the melting of the polar ice caps.

RAH
Hi Robert,

Gordon actually said "2.55", not "2.35". That was my 4am typo, now corrected.
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#186
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9/13/08 at 6:22pm
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Review of the Disney Ad for Sleeping Beauty BD*

So this transfer isn't perfect.
You'll see a black speck appear for less than a second on the bed frame when the faeries are putting "SB" too rest.
Then when the prince comes in for "the" kiss; all heck breaks loose with black mold/fungus/growth coming in from the edge of the fame (never seen anything like it B4).
I don't see a hint of grain (from normal seated position; the next disc I watched, listen too ;-), was Led Zep's "TSRTS" HD DVD grain was easy too notice of coarse [pi]).
All so the infamous** 'before & after' shows a BIG color shift from blue to gray. During the demo the water goes from aqua too gray & her dress goes from blue/gray too gray/green. Along w/his vest going from tan to brick.

So...
was the water supposed too be blue or gray???

*from the "SB" demo on "Ratatouille"
** as w/the "ST:TOS remastered"

I'm going to compare the SD DVD against the BD promo.
Hope too update soon.

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#187
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9/14/08 at 7:42am
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
*from the "SB" demo on "Ratatouille"

Ed and others,

all clips of Sleeping Beauty on ALL consumer media, even those advertising the "new Blu-ray", are from the old master used for the last DVD.

And they are horrible.

It was one of the reasons why, at the sleeping beauty demo in DC back in June, I was so eager to look at the clips from the forthcoming blu-ray to compare.

100% different. No comparison. None.

So don't even bother trying to extrapolate anything from any sleeping beauty clips from anything out right now. The new blu-ray is a completely different master from a completely different transfer from a completely different film restoration. And no consumer media out now have scenes taken from that new master... everything out now is from the old.
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#188
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9/14/08 at 12:35pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

But DaViD, is this restoration more correct? Is the Blu-Ray what Sleeping Beauty is supposed to look like, or does Disney stay on their current path? Meaning that they're changing the colors so it doesn't look 'old'.

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#189
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9/14/08 at 7:24pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

I couldn't say as I didn't have an original print or cel work to compare, but just watching the new restoration, nothing felt obviously altered as far as the colors go. We'll have to wait until the release for archivists and those familiar with the original print to say anything about the color balance and its accuracy.

HOWEVER,

EVERYTHING else about this new restoration, without a doubt, is 100% better than anything you've seen before. I'm sure that the original artists didn't intend for the dark/light contrast fluctuations and print damage to distract you while watching. And those intrusions, which served no artistic goal and were not intended by the artists, have been banished.

finally!
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#190
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9/15/08 at 9:11am
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Ed and others,

all clips of Sleeping Beauty on ALL consumer media, even those advertising the "new Blu-ray", are from the old master used for the last DVD.

And they are horrible.

It was one of the reasons why, at the sleeping beauty demo in DC back in June, I was so eager to look at the clips from the forthcoming blu-ray to compare.

100% different. No comparison. None.

So don't even bother trying to extrapolate anything from any sleeping beauty clips from anything out right now. The new blu-ray is a completely different master from a completely different transfer from a completely different film restoration. And no consumer media out now have scenes taken from that new master... everything out now is from the old.

thanx for info DaVid !!

Marek
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#191
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9/15/08 at 10:11am
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Full list of tech specs and special features has been announced:

Blu-ray.com - Special Features Revealed for Sleeping Beauty Blu-ray

The BD-Live stuff is still kinda "meh" for me at this point, but Disney certainly is demonstrating they're willing to embrace the new technology and push it in new directions.

As for the extensive supplements, I'm completely gobsmacked. These two BD-exclusive features alone do it for me:

Quote:
Cine-Explore – An all new Cine-Explore experience with full motion Picture-in-Picture featuring commentary by John Lasseter, Andreas Deja & Leonard Maltin. (BD Exclusive)

Restoring The Sound Track – This featurette will cover the creation of the all new 7.1 mix of the score of Sleeping Beauty that was done exclusively for this Blu-ray release using the source tapes from the original recording sessions resulting in an audio experience of superior quality with greater detail and fidelity than you have ever heard before. (BD Exclusive)

Add to that an alternate opening, all new documentary, featurettes (presented in 1080p), and the "Grand Canyon" short that accompanied "Sleeping Beauty" in theatres, AND a bonus DVD containing an extra copy of the movie (not DisneyFile), all for only $23.95 on Amazon? I already own the previous 2-disc release, but this one's a total no-brainer. Bravo Disney.

 

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#192
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9/15/08 at 10:43am
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

This sounds good. Hopefully these 1950s-era featurettes (and the TV episode) will be OAR.

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#193
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9/15/08 at 10:48am
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Beckman
and the "Grand Canyon" short that accompanied "Sleeping Beauty" in theatres
And in HD no less. None of this Nightmare Before Christmas laziness.
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#194
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9/19/08 at 5:23am
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Regarding the "grainless," "not very filmic" look of the restoration:

Isn't that pretty much what we should expect from a quality HD transfer taken from the original in-camera elements? I admit I don't know anything about what film stocks were used by the Disney studio, but I can't imagine a much more controlled shooting environment than that in which cels are shot. I've always assumed that grain visible in Disney's animated classics was a result of the handful of intermediate steps taken in creating release prints---am I mistaken in that assumption?
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#195
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9/19/08 at 7:03am
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

No. Film is always going to have some degree of grain, no matter how it is shot. Large format films have less grain by virtue of a larger frame being exposed, and in the case of classic Disney films, apparent grain was actually further reduced because of the nature of IB Technicolor printing; in fact it was IB prints that made viewing Techniscope productions less of a strain on the eyes. Grain would still be there, but grain would not be added to the image to any great degree because the receiving stock was clean plastic stock (polyester, acetate, insert polymer here) and would not add grain to the image. Marty Hart at widescreenmuseum.com has a great tutorial on how dye transfer prints were historically created, which also covers the Disney method of sequential exposure photography.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#196
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9/19/08 at 8:22am
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

I may have misspoken---I didn't mean to suggest I'd expect grain-free imagery from this release (I spent too much time in the B&W darkroom as a young'un for that). The last time I saw any number of classic Disney films in theatrical release would have been in the 70s/early 80s---frequently at university theaters---and my mind's-eye's (potentially faulty) recollection is that many of those prints seemed grainier than might have been necessary...

In contrast, it does not seem to me unreasonable that this release might feature grain fine enough to escape more casual observation---which is perhaps what I should have said to begin with.

Thanks for the heads-up on Hart's tutorial.
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#197
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9/19/08 at 4:00pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

One that seems particularly grainy in recent prints is Fantasia, but that's because the "censored" zoomed sections magnify the grain. This can be seen on the latest DVD releases. SB has always appeared nearly grain free in 35mm reduction prints to the best of my memory.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#198
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9/25/08 at 4:15pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Someone was lucky enough to pick this one up early. His impressions:
Quote:
Yeah it looks quite different than that...The colors are a lot deeper and have less of a white haze running through them if that makes any sense. It is also much sharper...but not over-sharpened. The film looks so pristine and incredible that any digital artifact or marks on the film would stand out like a sore thumb.

It truly looks like a childrens book. And the small amount of grain adds a texture that makes the animation appear like it's on paper rather than an LCD TV.

Very cool stuff and I was very hesitant to pick this one up again.
Pics are here:

MobileMe Gallery

EDIT: Pics appear to be photos of the TV, not captures, so keep that in mind.
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#199
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9/25/08 at 4:44pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Although it's hard to tell exactly what he's doing with those pictures, some of those shots look pretty darn exciting.

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself. Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!

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#200
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9/25/08 at 5:30pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

still waiting for my screener copy! Now the wait is even harder!!!
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#201
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9/25/08 at 6:35pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

To be honest I have never been excited about buying the old classic Disney films on video. But now since I have purchased a HDTV and a Blu-ray player, for the first time I am very interested in owning Disney classics on home video. I can not wait to hear about how good the video looks on the new blu-ray release of Sleeping Beauty. I forsee many Disney titles ending up in my Blu-ray collection as well as classic movies from other studios.

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#202
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9/25/08 at 8:28pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
still waiting for my screener copy! Now the wait is even harder!!!

I'm thinking we East Coasters will get it on Monday. That's just a guess, mind you. I'm as anxious and excited as everyone else about this one.
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#203
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9/27/08 at 10:16am
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

I own the old 2 disc SD Special Edition of Sleeping Beauty from 2003. Though someday I plan to buy the BR version solely for the video upgrade, what confuses me is that sites like Amazon list both the 2 disc SD and 3 disc BR Platinum editions as new releases. Is this 2 disc SD Platinum edition coming out with the BR on 10/7 different that the 2 disc SD Special Edition edition from 2003?

I don't suppose there are any bullet-point summaries of the differences between all 3 editions for people like me that don't want to read lots of pages to find out the differences in extras content? Thanks.
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#204
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9/27/08 at 3:01pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldB
I don't suppose there are any bullet-point summaries of the differences between all 3 editions for people like me that don't want to read lots of pages to find out the differences in extras content? Thanks.

Ronald: I suppose one way to go would be to look at the listing of each disc on amazon. To get you started...here's the Blu-ray package.

And here's the SD version.

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself. Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!

Top Ten Ways to Find Good Deals on DVDs and Blu-ray...
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#205
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9/27/08 at 3:30pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Just picked up a copy today - I will hopefully have a chance to watch it tonight on the pj - see how it looks at 128".
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#206
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9/27/08 at 7:56pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

I went from a bit of an extreme - Iron Man to Sleeping Beauty but I have to say that the vibrant colors and detail certainly are impressive! Disney has done an excellent job restoring this animated film.It more than holds it's own on a large screen too. I can only imagine what the original presentation in 70mm must have looked like back in 1959 when it premiered. The Cine Explore with commentary by John Lasseter, Leonard Maltin, and Disney Illustrator Andeas Deja is quite interesting and enjoyable with the photographs and film clips adding so much more to the commentary. Although I have only viewed 15 minutes of it so far, it looks to be well worth watching. Great to have extras like this.

They included a preview for the 70th Anniversary of Pinocchio for release in Spring, 2009 - in HD of course - and it sure looks to be another winner. Very sharp and clear - hard to believe it is that old from what I saw. I'm glad to have been able to purchase a copy earlier than usual - well worth the price.
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#207
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9/28/08 at 1:27pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Sweet High Definition screen caps of Sleeping Beauty Blu-ray frames when you use the zoom links!
http://www.zonadvd.com/modules.php?n...icle&artid=895

Paul
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#208
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9/28/08 at 2:49pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

I gotta say that the one screencap on that link of the cottage in the forest is absolutely breathtaking.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#209
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9/28/08 at 3:28pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Shouldn't you be able to partially see through the yellow flames when Maleficent arrives at King Stefan's? In those screencaps, the yellow is so bright, you can't.
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#210
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9/28/08 at 3:53pm
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Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottR
Shouldn't you be able to partially see through the yellow flames when Maleficent arrives at King Stefan's? In those screencaps, the yellow is so bright, you can't.
Just checked the 2003 special editon: widescreen dvd release and looked at the exact frame. Although the fire gives the illusion of more transparency on the dvd, it is because of the soft look & faded yellow and green colors. If you actually look at everything & anything behind the fire, you don't see more. The same areas are blocked-out/covered in both formats.

It's great how much more of the picture is viewable on the blu-ray when comparing the same frame on both.

Paul
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