Best of Route 66

Re: Best of Route 66

Hank, you took the words right out of my mouth regarding this release . . . . yeah, maybe it could have been better but, truthfully, it doesn't look all that bad for the most part. And I absolutely have to agree with you about the Paramount reference. We've become so spoiled by their incredibly clean and crisp looking releases ("The Untouchables," "The Fugitive," and others), that anything that doesn't measure up to their standard is going to suffer by comparison; admittedly, Paramount has set the bar pretty high.

Re: Best of Route 66

It's funny in that after watching shows like "Naked City", VTTBOTS S1, "Wild Wild West" S1 and so on that I'll go back to "The Rifleman" and the hour shows for "Danger Man" and the first thing that enters my mind is how soft and blemished the image appears to be. And yet when I was just starting the hobby of collecting old shows on DVD I'd think "Wow, do these shows ever look nice".

Still, it's a bit odd that Roxbury talks up the "restoration work" that went into "Route 66" and Image Entertainment, to my knowledge never stated ANYTHING on their releases for "Naked City" about the prints--and yet the 60 episodes released all rate a 10 in my book for transfer quality.

Re: Best of Route 66

Michael, there's no question that I would have preferred to see Image handle "Route 66." It would have been a natural series for them to do coming on the heels of "Naked City," and I do believe that they would have handled the audio/visuals a bit better than Roxbury/Infinity has. And watching and evaluating it is very definitely relative to the other shows that you have in your DVD collection. Compared to the shows that you mentioned in your post, no question . . . "Route 66" suffers by comparison. But I have many 1950s public domain television episodes in my collection and the worst looking episodes on "Route 66" are miles better than things like "Mr. & Mrs. North," "Ramar of the Jungle," "The Adventures of Sir Lancelot," and others. As the old saying goes . . . . "It's all relative."

Re: Best of Route 66

The picture quality has impacted my enjoyment of the series. I have never seen these episodes before and was ready to devour it. I stopped about 15 minutes into episode 2, tired of trying to make out the poor audio, with the poor visuals compacting my frustration. It really damped my enthusiasm for watching; I'll get through the set, someday.

Re: Best of Route 66

I have to say, as much as I don't want to, and I'm far from a videophile, that the video quality of this set is just awful. So Jdee28 I have to really agree with you on your statement that the picture quality of the set is really impacting your enjoyment of the set. It is criminal that Roxbury put this little effort into what should have been one of the best releases of the year. I just finished watching the first 30 episodes of Suspense a show that is almost 60 years old and saved on Kinescope, and I think the VQ was better on that set than on Route 66. I just finished the 11th episode of 66, and what should have been a very enjoyable experience is a struggle for me as well. We can only hope that possibly the sets will improve with future releases. It's just a shame!

Re: Best of Route 66

I've been following this thread off and on for the past few months in anticipation of the release of this series and the quality of the presentation. Now it's here and, well ...

Bummer.

It's my understanding the show was originally shot in 16mm, so how much could we have expected for great picture quality? (from these posts, a lot, it seems). But at least we have great Stirling Silliphant scripts, and a terrific glimpse into the landscape and culture of America, circa 1960-64.

And wait until you get to the Julie Newmar episodes; the premise alone was worth another series: Rich girl travels around America on her motor scooter stirring up trouble while a sad sack private detective hired by her family follows behind her secretly pining for her and cleaning those messes up.

So hurry up, clean up some messes of your own, Roxbury (remaster!), and keep these volumes coming because the writer's strike is on and there won't be anything worth watching on regular broadcast television for a long stretch of road.

Re: Best of Route 66

Welcome to the forum, Wayne. I gather by your post here and on the "Man From U.N.C.L.E. thread that you are an afficianado of vintage television, which is great as we can always use another member in the "club". The guys that post here on threads like "Route 66", "Rawhide" and "The Fugitive" are great and I've not only learned alot about shows from them but they've also considerably aided my purchasing decisions over the past two years.

I share your disappointment with "Route 66"--I was the one to break the news on this thread. Next to "The Fugitive" this was my most anticipated release of the year and I was always hyping this show up to my wife in the weeks leading up to the release. When she saw how "ruddy" most of the episodes looked coupled with substandard audio, she decided to pass on viewing it with me big time. That having been said, the series itself is exceptional in its dramatic writing, mainly due to (as you stated) the wonderful talents of Stirling Silliphant, a writer who didn't receive his just due as he was somewhat overshadowed by Rod Serling, who peaked in the same period.

By the way, in checking IMDB.com, my impression is that the series was indeed shot on 35mm originally.

Re: Best of Route 66

Thanks, Michael.

I'm not a technical type - I have relied on the other experts in this forum for those evaluations and information, and I just learned the hard way (a disappeared post) that you don't mention unmentionable versions of releases. But I have a passion for the shows I grew up on that featured great writing (Rod Serling inspired my career choice), many of which are on your list and others, and it is very cool to see these shows revived in both product and discussion.

And I ran into George Maharis at a restaurant in Santa Monica one night while the show was re-running on Nick at Nite and I was totally getting into it again. What a great opportunity. We talked about all the great character actresses featured on the show, those great boozy broads. And I told him "you must have been on top of the world traveling around the country making that show." He was pretty vain and very proud of how he had help up at 59 at the time (around 1985). I asked him how old he was when he did the show and he said, "25." But of course the math didn't add up. That must have been the studio line at the time, "you're 25." He had to be 35, which makes sense because everyone in Hollywood always plays 10 years younger. Standard procedure. I just thought it was a funny twist for a Hollywood actor to tell the truth about their current age, but rely on the studio bio to remember their former one. (And, particularly when it comes to actor ages, don't always believe the IMDB info.)

Re: Best of Route 66

Welcome to the boards, Wayne. Us vintage tv lovers are few and far between, but there's a great group that frequents this site. Very knowledgeable and friendly bunch of guys.

Gary "still bummed about the quality, but there's just no way to pass on this series" O.

Re: Best of Route 66

Thanks, Gary, it's nice to see an actually friendly forum of posts. I'm quite shocked (particularly on news or political posts) how viscious, mean-spirited and nasty the whole thing is. Would people really say these things if they had to stand up in front of an room full of living, sensitive human beings instead of hiding behind the mask of anonymity online? I doubt it.

So it's nice to escape to vintage television and the positive buzz (at least for content) of these releases. I recently went through the first volume of "The Fugitive," what was surprisingly good (there were even episodes where Janssen wasn't moping), and I'm now watching "Film Noir Classics 4" which has about 8 excellent noir films (and a couple clunkers). Very "Naked City"-style stuff. (Another excellent series and presentation).

But I hope some of the feedback from this forum is getting back to Roxbury for better presentation on future volumes of "Route 66."

(my 11 year-old son made me add this)

Re: Best of Route 66

You are talking to a Fuge fanatic here, Wayne. My favorite show of all time (with "Route 66" right behind). And "Naked City" is another great one we've talked about here from time to time. I have the 4th WB Film Noir on order right now, using Deep Discount's 20% Off coupon.

My biggest gripe with the quality on this "Route 66" set is that we all know there are better elements out there. Nick@Nite proved that about 20 years ago when they ran the series. I happened to be out of the loop (finishing college at the time) when those ran but others here can vouch for the quality. It just stinks that Roxbury couldn't have used those prints instead of the beat up ones they are using for this set. Like Bert and others have pointed out, this show has so much beautiful incidental scenery throughout that it deserves top notch picture quality.

Gary "I'll get every set they release, but it doesn't stop me from wishing they had done better with the prints - it's not like we are asking for the impossible" O.

Re: Best of Route 66

I was going to pick this up because it is very cheap right now during a certain online retailer's 20% off sale, but after reading about the quality issues, I decided to pass.
I have too many dvds and not enough to watch them and not a big enough place to store them, so I have to be extremely selective about which dvds I add to my growing collection.
I'm happy its available for fans of the show, though, but disappointed in the quality.

Re: Best of Route 66

I don't know if it's from years of watching bad syndication prints over the air. I don't know if it's from years of watching 2nd generation (or worse) tapes that I got in trade. But whatever it is, I am almost done watching the Route 66 set and I haven't found it to be bad at all. It certainly is not at all objectionable, save for the cut episode. I found one episode had a bad audio hum in it, which I haven't seen mentioned yet. But as for the picture quality, I am far too engrossed in the great stories to be concerned or even notice any problem.

Re: Best of Route 66

Hank, this pretty much sums it up for me as well, and I'm finding the same situation with Timeless' release of "Arrest and Trial."

I think the issue that many are having with the release of "Route 66" is the comparison with other series of the same era, like "The Fugitive" and, especially, "Naked City," which came from the same producer around the same time. The thinking is that if "The Fugitive" or "Naked City" can look really good or, yes, even great, why not "Route 66?" In my humble opinion, that's a fair and reasonable question to ask considering "Route 66's" place in television history. Of course, what we don't know is what kind of material Roxbury Entertainment had access to as part of the "Route 66" rights assigned to them. There have been numerous comments here about the Nick-at-Nite transfers looking superior to the DVDs. If that's the case, those transfers are now about 20 years old, so do they still look as good as they did 20 years ago? Are they even still available and, if so, at what price to Roxbury, which clearly is not a major DVD releasing company and likely does not have unlimited financial resources.

I think that it's reasonable to assume that if "Route 66" were still in the hands of Sony, that we would still be waiting for a DVD release. I truly would have liked to have seen a better release of "Route 66" but it did take an independent like Roxbury to get this series finally released on DVD, and so I'm willing to cut them a little slack outside of, perhaps, the cut episode. And like you, I have far, far worse looking shows in my collection (just about anything that Alpha Video puts out) so, if this is as bad as "Route 66" gets, then I don't have much to complain about . . . . bring on season 1, volume 2 ASAP!

Re: Best of Route 66

Hey, I taped the shows from Nick @ Nite on VHS in the 80s and more recently transferred these wobbling, degrading tapes to DVD-Rs so, to me, this is a big step up. Let's compare this even to how we originally saw them on our 13 inch B&W tvs back in the 60s. I mean, I used to audiotape series theme music on my cheap 1 1/2 IPS recording tape recorder holding a mike to my family television's mono speaker, and that result was good enough at the time for a TV fanatic. Now look at today's DVDs. We were never this spoiled.

But what I REALLY wanted to ask is if this forum or it's users have access to sales data to keep us informed how the show is selling to; A) make us not feel so alone in these nostalgic obsessions, and, more importantly; B) give us hope for continued and perhaps more thoughtfully-prepared season releases.

Thanks!

Re: Best of Route 66

I'm generally not much of a complainer, but outside of 3 or 4 decent looking episodes on the Roxbury Route 66 set, I stand by my intitial assessment that they look awful to the point of distraction. The audio may even be worse than the video quality. I don't know if it is the poor contrast or what, but I was constantly squinting to try to make out the backgrounds. I am having no such trouble with any of the Timeless Media new releases. There may be quite a few specks of dirt, but that is not distracting for me. I can clearly see the image, and I'm loving their releases - so far my favorite has been The Restless Gun. As far as the audio on Route 66, I've had to have it up at least 10 notches higher than most other dvds and I still struggled to make out what they were saying. I will probably keep collecting these, but I surely hope the second release of R66 is better than their first.

Re: Best of Route 66

I have to agree with Doug and stand by my original assessment as well. And the sound quality is indeed abhorrent at times.


Bob, you nailed it. This is all the more a bitter pill to swallow in that we were "teased" over the great quality of the "Best of" set--which I didn't purchase, though Gary offered up accolades over the PQ some months back--and that was good enough for me to hold my expectations high. I'm still going the course and will purchase every set released, but like others here, I just hope that the PQ/SQ improves.

Re: Best of Route 66

As much as it pains me to say this (both because the show deserves better and because I respect my fellow HTF posting friends), I just have to agree with Michael and Doug as well. I simply do not think my perceptions of the audio and video quality with this set is the function of me being "spoiled" by other, more pristine sets. First off, I think I do have some Alpha titles that are a little better than some of the Route 66 episodes. Honestly, some of these are just atrocious. If they were as good as the worst of the Daniel Boone Season 1 episodes I'd never have said a word. But that's not even the case, and some of those Boone's looked pretty poor.




Yea, I must admit that I'm leaning toward believing the "Best of" set was a teaser that used the best looking episodes they had. I'm not even sure if the episodes on that set would really be considered the "best" of the run. I think the "best" refers to the best quality they could get their hands on and present to us in a package. I'll tell you, after having that set and then getting this first half of Season 1 set, it's a huge difference.

I'll still purchase the next set that comes out. And I do believe the stories get better in season 2 (someone with a better memory either back me up or tell me I'm way off base). As long as that's the case, I'll keep buying. But I'd be out and out lying if I said the quality hasn't affected my viewing pleasure. It has. Greatly.

Gary "and I've watched a heck of a lot of PD stuff, so I don't believe I've been spoiled - this set is way below standards, there's just no other way to say it" O.

Re: Best of Route 66

perhaps we should boycott future releases till they improve the presentation - if we keep buying inferror product, they'll keep putting out poor quality stuff.

At least TIMELESS is taking the time to present the best possible 16mm transfers on the MCA-TV/UNIVERSAL Stuff!

Re: Best of Route 66

If this were Sony, I might agree (although I generally don't believe boycotting ever does much good). But I seriously doubt anything we do would influence this particular company (Roxbury) because they are likely only going to work with what they are given. I don't think they are in a position to do any restoration work on their own. And some of these episodes look like they'd require extensive restoration!

Gary "just don't think there's any point in boycotting - it's not gonna help in this instance at all, IMHO" O.

Re: Best of Route 66

I also thought the audio and video was poor on most episodes. The fact that 2 or 3 episodes looked good means that there are good prints out there and they just couldn't be bothered to find them or remaster them. This is a public domain quality release that would end up costing someone 50 or 60 bucks for a whole season, if they release the other half. The price should have been dirt cheap with the quality they are selling.

Re: Best of Route 66

Hello Everybody,

I'm new to this forum, but have some info regarding Route 66. I worked at Nick at nite (MTV Networks) when Route 66 aired and can tell you the company would usually pay extra for the cleanest copies of shows, which was likely the case with Route 66, as I remember nearly every episode was in decent shape. During the initial run on NAN, all of the "next week" show promos also aired, but they were edited out in later airings to obtain more advertising time. I too are somewhat disappointed with Roxybury's initial "Season One" release, especially after buying their "Best of Route 66" and being extremely pleased with that. My beef isn't so much the quality of the audio and video (I run mine through a number of different processors anyway, so the levels get cleaned up), but the extras. For their "Best of" collection, they transferred the original shows complete, with the commercials and bumpers intact. For Season One, they included a few of them as an extra, but were done rather unprofessionally, with some of them starting without the control track and gen lock synching up in time. THAT was dissappointing to me. And why no show promos as extras? I KNOW they were produced, I have them all from my NAN days. I seriously hope they exercise some kind of quality control in future offerings.

Re: Best of Route 66

Welcome aboard Kurt. What I didn't understand is why Infinity didn't just go off the 1-inch masters that were transferred for the NAN airings. They were great quality and like you say, included the next week promos as well. It really seems like this release was thrown together very sloppily without a lot of thought or quality control and they really should have researched what the best source material was.

Re: Best of Route 66

.

Re: Best of Route 66

.

Re: Best of Route 66

.

Re: Best of Route 66

.

Re: Best of Route 66

.

Re: Best of Route 66

.

Re: Best of Route 66

.