Best of Route 66

Re: Best of Route 66

My set arrived today and I took a quick look at the episodes on disc one. For the most part they seem to be watchable, though certainly not up to the standards of The Fugitive and other titles. The packaging claims that the episodes were "digitially remastered" but it looks like they just took what they had and digitally transferred it.

I have the Columbia House VHS tapes so I'll do an a/b comparison when I get a few free minutes. It's been ten years since I've watched them.

Has anyone who has the Nick at Nite episodes timed them? I'm a bit skeptical that Nick at Nite would have shown the full, unedited 50-minute episodes.

Re: Best of Route 66

Yes, Nick-at-Night used to air un-cut episodes. Remember, this was back in 1985-87, before a lot of the chopping frenzies started. In fact, Nick-at-Night also used to include the little "coming next week" promo's, narrated by either Milner or Maharis, and mentioning the scheduled guest-stars. They eventually dropped that, though.

Re: Best of Route 66

Okay, I compared Episode #1 with the Columbia House VHS tape, and it's clear to me that both the tape and the DVD used the same print. At the five-second mark of the opening scene there is a white speck which briefly appears in the lower left-hand corner of the picture. The speck is visible on both the Columbia House tape and the DVD. The only difference that I can see is that Columbia House tacked on a color logo at the conclusion of the episode.

On my display the DVD of Episode #1 shows a thin translucent line down the right edge of the picture. This does not appear on the other episodes and I'm not sure what it would be called.

Re: Best of Route 66

Nick ran everything complete for the first several years, not just Route 66 but I Spy, My Three Sons, Dennis the Menace, Donna Reed. The thing that put an end to that was when they bought Make Room for Daddy in the late
80s. The syndicator sent them badly cut episodes that came in at around 21:30. No one complained. No viewers were outraged and called to find out what the hell was going on. After that, Nick knew they could cut the shit out of the shows and no one cared or knew the difference. That was when they began to edit all of the shows to 22 minutes. But anything they ran pre-1989 or so was complete.

Re: Best of Route 66

I would keep those Nick tapes, especially if we are seeing cut episodes thrown into the mix. And the Nick transfers were remastered and looked gorgeous. Why Infinity/Roxbury is not using those and instead using dirty (just run through a projector with no clean up) transfers of 16s, I don't understand, unless that was all Sony would give them. None of us knows exactly what kind of deal Roxbury struck with Sony to get the series and what elements Sony would allow them access to. If they actually purchased the series outright, lock, stock and barrel, then they should have gotten the
1-inch tapes that Nick ran.

Re: Best of Route 66

When I started to watch Nick At Night, they were starting to show The Patty Duke Show. When they first started to show them (and I was able to record most of the run this way) they ran 24 minutes without commercials, which means, as most know, about a minute was cut. After the second or third run, they began running them edited of another 2 minutes. This additional editing was usually done by cutting the teaser.

Re: Best of Route 66

After some thought on the R66 set, I'm passing on this one for now until that certain gentleman from points north comes through Texas

"You better watch out
You better not cry
You better not pout
I'm telling you why
Santa Claus is coming to town"

Sorry, couldn't resist It's early but the holiday season's just ahead and this way I can get this set for free.....IF I've been nice all year

If I had any connections, I'd call the North Pole and get Santa to drop some DVD sets down you guy's chimneys!

Jeff "Santa's Helper" W. "Don't work too hard, Gary. We'll connect next wk."

Re: Best of Route 66

Just curious but to the people complaining about the picture quality, I have a question. If they had spent the money to clean up the prints, would you have still bought the set if it was $50 or $60 per half season? You have people on here balking at paying for it now, with DDD selling it for under $20. It wouldn't bother me as I make a good living and my hobbies are my only big expense. But I just wonder how many people wouldn't mind paying the extra cost. Judging by some of the posts I read, not too many.

Re: Best of Route 66

But apparently, the issue really isn't about "cleaning" up bad prints. It's about using good source material. And we know there's better material out there because so many saw it years ago on Nick@Nite. So unless Roxbury was told to only use these beat up prints that apparently came from Sony, this is more about not doing much research into what was available. And that would be a shame.

I'll admit that I would balk at paying $50 or more for half season sets. Especially if by $50 you are talking the actual price we'd pay - which is generally around 30% off SRP. Frankly, I don't believe Roxbury or Infinity would have ever even considered trying to sell the sets at that price. It'd be a losing proposition for them. So the hypothetical you bring up doesn't really work for me. It's just not something we'd have seen in any situation. No company worth their salt is going to be crazy enough to think folks would pay upwards of $50 to $60 for a half-season show. Just not gonna happen.

Have you actually seen the prints yourself, Hank? Because I can assure you none of us is exaggerating how poor some of the episodes look. Michael, Bert, myself and others are not being nitpicky here. There really are some bad looking spots in this set. And a few spots are perilously close to PD quality.

Gary "I still say buy the set for $20, it's well worth it in my book - but I'd be lying if I said the quality of every episode was outstanding or even average, because that's not the case" O.

Re: Best of Route 66

Well I was one who posted earlier stating that I would have paid at least double to get prints as clean as "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" S1. And since these went on sale initially for under $30 per half season, why wouldn't it be reasonable to expect a price along similar lines for this set? "Rawhide", "The Untouchables" and "The Fugitive" have also been selling for around $30-35 per half season with their solid transfers. Box sets of "Naked City" with around a half season's worth of shows were made available by Image for under $20. And then there is the example of FULL season set releases like "Mission: Impossible" and "The Wild Wild West", again with superb transfers, with a price tag of around $35.

I guess I don't understand why "Route 66" would have to be marketed with a $50-60 per half season price necessarily, especially since the 1-inch Nick transfers made years ago would have sufficed to provide image quality comparable to the above named sets.

Re: Best of Route 66

The issue of whether to get a product out on dvd ASAP or wait until financial or print quality issues are resolved or never get the product out haunt all distributors. (e.g., THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS) I just received ARREST & TRIAL and TATE from Timeless Media. TATE is an interesting western loaded with unusual guest stars like Louise Fletcher, Robert Redford, Leonard Nemoy, James Coburn, and it is in impeccable condition. But ARREST AND TRIAL is--to put it as generously as possible--"frayed" soft, missing some credit sequences. However, if you like "Route 66" and "Naked City," I recommend that you get ARREST & TRIAL. The writing is superb--literate, thoughtful, and respectful of its audience's intelligence. There is terrific 1964 location work of LA and Las Vegas and memorable performances by Mickey Rooney, Nick Adams, Joseph Schildkraut, and Arthur O'Connell. And it's unusual hour-and-a-half time means that it is in no hurry to play its cards. The quality of the prints used make this a tough consumer decision but you should understand that this is a remarkable series and that realistically this is as good as it is going to get. My suspicion is that subsequent seasons of ROUTE 66 will have better presentations--if only on the basis of age, but A & T wasonly one season.

Re: Best of Route 66

Charles, Thank you for your thoughtful comments on the new Timeless releases. While I plan to order most of the new Timeless releases over time, my past experience with them has been that their material is of variable quality. But, in fact, "Arrest and Trial" will be the very first of the "new" Timeless releases that I'm getting for the very reasons you so very well articulated. If Timeless didn't take a chance on this series, who else would release it? Certainly not Universal. The chance to watch a rare-to-see, quality series is the determining factor in my ordering this set. There just may not be much in the way of affordable alternatives to see a series of this vintage.

Re: Best of Route 66

My apologies . . . double post.

Charles, from which company did you get your copies of "Tate" and "Arrest and Trial?"

Re: Best of Route 66

I got them directly from Timeless Media (timelessmusic.com), and it's rather odd since these two titles appear to be only available from them so far, whereas a whole slew of dvds coming out next week (CHECKMATE, THE RESTLESS GUN, LAREDO, CIMARRON CITY, RIVERBOAT, etc) are coming out next week and are available on Amazon, Deep Discount, etc.

Re: Best of Route 66

When it comes to anything old and from Universal, they won't do it themselves. They will run it for someone else from the master elements but they will charge a fortune. They won't let anyone borrow their elements and have it done for a reasonable price. So the only option left is for someone to come up with the elements on their own in which case Universal will license the show to them for a reasonable price. So, if you haven't had an opportunity to get these shows previously, it's a great chance to get your hands on some rarities. If, however, like many of us who have been collecting shows on film for a couple of decades, chances are you've had these shows for years and at the same quality as these releases.

Re: Best of Route 66

as stated on the Timeless website..."One of the only westerns ever produced on video tape, not film".

Re: Best of Route 66

Well, I received my set yesterday and watched a mini-marathon of the first three episodes. Yes, the visual quality of the episodes is not as good as, say, "Naked City," "Route 66's" sister show and that puzzles me a bit. One could easily come to the conclusion that because both shows were made around the same time by the same producer that they should look the same. However, what we don't know is how the films from each series have been stored and cared for over time.

I think that I can sum up the problem that we're having with this release in one word: Paramount. Paramount has set the bar so high for so many of its vintage TV-on-DVD releases, that anything that doesn't have that "Paramount look" to it is going to suffer seriously by comparison. Would I have liked to see a better presentation on this DVD? Absolutely. But, for me, the brilliance of this show (the writing, casting, location filming) is what counts and trumps a somewhat less than desirable presentation.

Sales Update (10/25 a.m.):

Amazon - #161 Overall
DeepDiscount - #4 Overall, #2 TV-on-DVD

Gotta love these numbers for a show that began production 47 years ago!

Re: Best of Route 66

These numbers surely include hundreds (thousands?) of Corvette fans. The car has a rabid following.

Re: Best of Route 66

I watched the first 4 and to me the show is so good that I didn't really concern myself with the quality. Of course I watched them at work on a 7-inch portable player so it's not the same as those watching on a 50-inch high def set. Could have looked better but I'm more concerned with the inclusion of a cut episode. That is far more upsetting to me. I've been looking at 16mm my whole life so the print quality doesn't bother me.

Re: Best of Route 66

That's precisely how I'm watching the episodes myself. I found my portable to be far more forgiving than my tv where picture quality is concerned.

Re: Best of Route 66

While I would have liked to have had visual quality along the lines of "The Fugitive" release duplicated for this set, "Route 66" is simply one of the greatest television dramas of all time. And just like "The Fugitive," the quality level of the series was set very, very high from the very first episode. The show reminds me of the old potato chip commercial . . . . betcha' can't watch just one.

The scenes of 1960s America are priceless. There's an early scene in the first episode "Black November" where Tod and Buz are talking to the ferry skipper (character actor Guy Raymond). Over Raymond's shoulder can be seen an old Mississippi steamboat churning up-river. You have to look closely at the scene to see the boat, suggesting that it just may have been passing by coincidentally as the scene was being filmed. This scene and some of the New Orleans street scenes from "The Swan Bed" are simply amazing . . . . just a great, great series on so many different levels.

Re: Best of Route 66

The episode "A Fury Slinging Flame" is indeed shorn of about 4 minutes. I compared it to my copy recorded off of Nick-at-Night, and scenes missing include: Buz meeting his date; Fay Spain arriving via airplane; bit with news reporters chatting at the New Year's Party; Leslie Nielsen in the cave talking to the reverend; a scene of James Brown berating Nielsen; and, a local tv-news remote at the cave entrance. Nothing integral to the plot, but makes the tale seem a bit more fleshed out. The print on the dvd is also considerably darker and murkier than what was broadcast.

THIS IS REALLY STUPID!!!!!

This is one DVD release that I was anxiously looking forward to but because substandard source elements are being used I am stringently going to avoid it!

This is THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN all over again when there are better video transfers being circulated in tv syndication while something a lot worse is being made available on DVD.

What is the use of boasting (and developing) all the modern advances in DVD technology with vastly improved picture and sound quality when, at least with the older properties, these films and tv series are marketed with inferior quality materials?!

Absolutely stupid and irresponsible and the advanced promotional material clearly stated that these were newly restored and digitally remastered from the original 35mm source elements.

This DVD collection is really going to go far...idiots! You don't market garbage prints.

Jeff T.

Re: Best of Route 66

Edited Prints?!! Gee,if you can't release it right,don't do it at all!

Re: Best of Route 66

Bert, thanks for the comparison; that's a real shame. Still, flawed as it may be, I'm really enjoying this set immensely . . . . just great storytelling. I've watched the first seven episodes and, surprisingly, I've enjoyed the episode "Ten Drops of Water" the most thus far. No real big guest stars (Burt Brinckerhoff, Deborah Walley, Robert F. Simon), but the episode was well written and the acting of the young boy (Tony Haig) was moving.

Re: Best of Route 66

A week after its release and sales are still going strong for this set . . . .

#237 overall at Amazon

#3 overall at Deep Discount, #2 TV-on-DVD

I feel confident that we'll see the remainder of season 1; this set has some legs.

Re: Best of Route 66

I checked the numbers on "Route 66" as well a couple of days back and was quite impressed. It appears to be doing every bit as well as "The Fugitive" sales wise. The caveats from reviewers on Amazon regarding image quality notwithstanding, very solid sales just the same. I'm curious just where this set would be standing if everyone was lauding superlative image transfer for all episodes.

Re: Best of Route 66

I was going to post the update myself, Bob. In with some good company at DD:

1.
Ratatouille
$17.66

2.
Twin Peaks - The Definitive Gold Box Edition
$63.99

3.
Route 66: The Series
$18.84

4.
Spider-Man 3
$16.58

5.
Ultimate Classic Christmas Collection
$16.98

Re: Best of Route 66

This is one of the most disappointing classic tv dvd releases of the year. It's a shame that a more reputable company couldn't get ahold of the series. Imagine what the picture quality would have been like if Image or even BCI handled the release.

Re: Best of Route 66

Roxbury Entertainment got the rights from Sony and are providing the elements to Infinity for the release. It's really unknown who is to blame. It could be Sony provided substandard elements or Roxbury did it on the cheap. I doubt it's Infinity as they are just releasing what they are provided, although one would think that somewhere in the process someone would see an episode 5 minutes shorter than the rest and realize something was amiss. But really it's such a great series that other than the cut episode, I'm not that annoyed. Yeah, maybe it could have looked better but after 40 plus years of watching 16mm prints on television and in my collection, I really wasn't bothered to be honest. Not every show is going to look like the Paramount releases and I'm okay with that.