Best of Route 66

Re: Best of Route 66

Michael, "Play it Glissando" is indeed on the "BEST OF" set. But "Man on a Monkey Board" is not included. So there goes that theory (and it was a good, logical theory on your part).



Well, that is truly a shame. I'm just returning from a little vacation and this is not the kind of news I was hoping to hear. I'm expecting my set to arrive early this week and am anxious to see these prints for myself. Since you are comparing them to DANIEL BOONE, S1 I'm definitely concerned. It's a bizarre thing about that series. All the color seasons have been beautifully restored. My family actually watched many of these episodes in our room during this week's vacation and I still couldn't get over how wonderful these episodes look. Yet that 1st season was clearly not restored and it can look pretty ragged in spots. Too bad, because I like the first season of that show more than any of the others. Oh well... sigh...



I really am saddened to hear this. The shine has definitely come off a little. No doubt about it. I just hope these aren't PD type quality. If they are, I'm really going to be disgusted. I can take most of the DANIEL BOONE, S1 episodes even though they are sub par. But I must admit that they stretch the boundaries of what is acceptable to me. And it sounds like ROUTE 66 may be pushing those same boundaries.

Overall, the tvondvd market really is a mixed bag. And it's getting more mixed as we go along, not less. We are seeing more music substitutions, more syndicated cuts, more of this hit and miss quality, and more legal/studio issues [i.e. now it looks like FKB is in possible peril]. It makes collecting tv shows on dvd both interesting and maddening at the same time. Unfortunately, it's more maddening than interesting at this point. I can go from euphoria to dysphoria in a hurry. Just today, as I turned on my computer and read my email I got great news about the Timeless dvds and I was ecstatic. Then I logged into TVShowsonDVD.com and read the semi-disconcerting news about FATHER KNOWS BEST and I evened out, emotionally. Then I logged on here and read the news about ROUTE 66 and I went into deep depression. Wow what a rollercoaster of emotions in just a few minutes. And such is the world of TVonDVD.

Gary "and I hate rollercoasters" O.

Re: Best of Route 66

Welcome back to the forum, Gary and I'm sorry to relay the bad news before you even had the chance to see R66 for yourself. Perhaps I'm being a bit to hard on this release but it's just that I've been so pleased and maybe even a bit spoiled with "Gomer Pyle", "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea", "The Fugitive", WWW, "Naked City" and other B&W sets that I really expected nothing less than a solid transfer along similar lines here.

Rest assured they are not PD quality but they awfully close to DB S1 for softness and contrast levels. Some of the low light scenes in a couple episodes I scanned through were quite terrible, to the extent that it looks as though the camera was filming through gauze. They are watchable, but boy, one would be hard pressed to win over newbies to the show in order to illustrate how this series is every bit as dramatically engaging as say, "The Twilight Zone". I showed these to my wife and she felt that she couldn't enjoy these because they look like neglected films from the 40s to her. (Old B&W is already a tough sell for her as it is unless we're talking 1/2 shows like GP and HGWT.)

I feel bad for the gang here--you, Chris, Bob, Doc and the others as I know everyone was greatly anticipating this suberb drama on DVD since we all started collecting vintage shows.

Re: Best of Route 66

Dude, is there any reason why your not answering my question if the ORIGINAL COMMERCIALS are included?

Re: Best of Route 66

My copy of Route 66 arrived a few days ago, I have watched the first disc.
It looks and sounds great to me.

There are no commercials in the shows, but they include "classic original commercials" in the extras.

Re: Best of Route 66

The word spoiled comes to mind. Let me ask you a question. Do you think they look better than VHS tapes recorded off the Nick at Nite run from 20 years ago? Because other than that, where else are you getting them? Its a 45 plus year old show which has had hardly any syndication in the last 40 years, save for the Nick run when most people didn't even have cable. I'm sure they probably sourced these from the 1-inch tapes made for the Nick run at the time. I mean c'mon, let's be a little more realistic here. Forget about how good the show is. How many copies is it going to sell? It's not as well known or well remembered as The Fugitive or The Untouchables. It's not a legendary classic like Naked City or The Defenders. And for those of us who didn't start collecting with DVDs, I'm sure we've all seen far worse.

Re: Best of Route 66

too bad, I was hoping they would be included in the program.

thanks for the info.

Re: Best of Route 66

- duplicated post -

Re: Best of Route 66

But how do the DVDs look compared to the COLUMBIA HOUSE tapes?

Re: Best of Route 66

Let's Hope FKB doesn't turn into another BATMAN Situation!

Re: Best of Route 66

I would be happy if this set is comparable to the Columbia House tapes, which were pristine, although it doesn't sound like this it the case. But for those fortunate enough to have off air or 1st generation tapes of the NICK at NITE run (I have some), the quality is consistently very good (and uncut). If indeed the quality of this set is inconsistent, it sounds like Roxbury did not use the same source tapes as NICK. If they did, then hopefully they did not use 2nd or less generation copies in transferring episodes outside of the BEST OF collection.

Re: Best of Route 66

According to Kirk Hallam, owner of the "Route 66" series, the next batch of episodes may be released just before Christmas. From "HollywoodToday.net" . . . . .

"“There are 116 episodes in all and we will be releasing them 15-20 episodes at a time.” Hallam said that the next 15 episodes will likely be released just before Christmas and if sales are good, Roxbury and its distributor Infinity Entertainment may compile a collector’s set sometime in the future but that idea has not come to pass just yet."

Full article here: http://www.hollywoodtoday.net/?p=2292

Re: Best of Route 66

I think I'll put this one on Hold until I read more (xfr) reviews here. From what I'm reading I'm fairly certain that I'll get this set. The xfrs would have to be significantly lower than some of my other B/W sets from the same time period before I'd pass on this one. I guess we'd all like to see these sets (from the 50's/early 60's) compare in xfr-Q to the Fugitive and Untouchables, etc. But, as Hank said, it's the content that counts as long as it's "watchable". Since that's a somewhat subjective criteria, it'll be up to the individual collector on making the call for this set. From Bob's recommendation about this one, I'll most likely get this after reading additional review posts.

That said, I admit to having a certain level of expectation when it comes to a DVD release vs a previously-released VHS format release of the same series.

But, it's all about "the content" with these vintage-era series releases. An example I always think about when the xfr issue gets discussed is one of my all-time 60's series, "Combat!". Those xfrs aren't pristine by any measure but there's no way I'd have passed on getting that series.

Gary, "10-4" on Mike's "welcome back from Vac". Great post (#151). I'm also not a fan of "rollercoasters" I didn't event like them at the amusement parks as a kid

One thing about this collector's hobby: It keeps us guessing. Something that I've found curious is the inconsistancy of xfr-Q in TV/DVD sets that span a wide range of era. For example, the "Barney Miller" S1 xfrs are well below average. Compared to, for example, the "Time Tunnel" series DVD release from a series that aired 10 yrs prior to B.M., the difference is light-years apart. It can be compared to an 80's series as well. Take the "MacGuyver" S1 set vs either the Fugitive or the Untouchables, or even the Perry Mason sets. The 60's sets vs an 80's release is amazing. The earlier show's xfrs win out easily. I'd guess that there are several reasons for the differences, how the original elements were stored, how they were originally made (35mm vs tape?), etc. It can make this (TV/DVD collecting) hobby frustrating at times.

Mike, thanks for the xfr-description comparison post. It helps us decide on sets such as this one.

Jeff "waiting for more info before deciding on R66" W.

Re: Best of Route 66

Since "Route 66" is of the same vintage as "Naked City" and "The Untouchables" my feeling is that one woudn't be out of line to expect prints every bit as good as we've witnessed with the latter two series, factoring in of source elements used (and of course their availablility) as well as any efforts taken to clean these up by removing scratches and blemishes.

But here's my real problem. Roxbury chose to use 11 excellent prints, ostensibly not taken from 1 inch tapes made for Nick back in the 80's but rather made from the original masters perhaps. So did Roxbury want to test the waters by giving consumers the impression that if they bought season sets all episodes would look pristine? That's how I read it and it seems a bit deceitful from where I stand. They chose instead not only to NOT mix and match a solid print with a substandard one in the "Best of" set but rather decided against including NOT ONE episode that suffers from the problems I discussed earlier. And I may be way off base here, but to me, I see no reason why overall these "Route 66" prints can't look as good as "The Rifleman", unless for reasons that you have more information over than I do, "Route 66" suffers from a fate similar to that of season one of "Daniel Boone". In which case I would understand the below average prints.

Personally, I expect this set to sell (perhaps even in spite of the poor print quality) more units than "Naked City" because in my mind "Route 66" lives on better in the collective minds of this nation--in large measure owing to the nostalgia associated with the old highway. Milner and Maharis became rather famous as a result of this series, but McMahon, Burke and Bellaver? Your knowledge base of vintage shows is certainly greater than mine, but you must admit that whether it is inferior to "Naked City" and "The Defenders" is a rather subjective matter, especially when you consider that NC and R66 are 'sister' shows with the same producer (Herbert B. Leonard) and same script supervisor/consultant (Stirling Silliphant).

Re: Best of Route 66

Apology extended--that was completely unintentional on my part.

Re: Best of Route 66

thanks Michael.

Re: Best of Route 66

I can't comment yet on the visual quality of the new "Route 66" release as I have yet to receive my copy, but it does seem hard to believe that different print sources of episodes may have been used by Roxbury, i.e., one source for the "best of" set and another for the season 1, volume 1 release. The set is priced at about $9-$10 less than a comparable offering (The Fugitive, The Untouchables) from Paramount, so maybe Roxbury and the releasing company, Infinity Entertainment, felt that just getting the episodes released was enough, and that they had to offer the set at a more affordable price rather than doing any substantial restoration, which may have had the effect of significantly increasing the price of the set. I suppose that it's one thing for a studio-owned property to be restored and another for an independent producer to assume the costs of restoration. In addition to DVD, one would have to consider whether or not the series has any further viability in the syndication market in considering the expenses associated with a full blown restoration; to the best of my knowledge, there's been no such national syndication run of the series since the Nick at Nite run in the late 1980s.

It just may be that some of the series' episodes look better than others . . . I noticed on my recent purchase of "Have Gun Will Travel" season 3 that some of the episode intros and closing credits are about what I would expect from an Alpha Video, i.e., unrestored, but that the actual episodes look very clean as a whole. So who knows what, if any, work went into bringing this set to DVD? But here's what Kirk Hallam, the owner of Roxbury Entertainment had to say at HollywoodToday.net about the source material . . . .

"Route 66” was one of the first television series to be shot on 35mm film, giving it a clear and sharp feel,” Hallam said. “When we went back to remaster the series for DVD, we used a duplicate copy of the original film stock that had been kept in a climate controlled special vault in Burbank, (Cailf.),” Hallam added."

Based on Hallam's remarks, it does not appear that any restoration work was done; they simply used a duplicate (not uncommon) of the best source that they had available to them. It appears that time may have taken its toll on the film elements.

*** Sales Update ***

At DeepDiscount.com, "Route 66" was ranked #2 in terms of all TV-on-DVDs and #5 overall for all DVDs this afternoon.

Re: Best of Route 66

My disappointment starts with the packaging. My set arrived with one of the extremely fragile plastic hinge pins holding the disc three page broken. And for the first time, DD shipped my order in a padded envelope rather than a box...which may have contributed.

As for picture quality, "Black November" has a small visual stutter to it that's annoying in addition to comments posted upthread. I'm hoping, as has been indicated, quality improves the deeper one gets into the box.

About the only redeeming factor is a more-or-less reasonable price, all other factors considered. I'd be seriously angry if I'd paid $30 or more.

Re: Best of Route 66

My set arrived today and I promptly popped it into my dvd player to check out the quality issues that Michael mentioned. First off, the first episode looked pretty decent to me. Not pristine, but certainly not bad by any stretch. I then turned my attention to the 2nd episode, "A Lance of Straw", and was really shocked. It was a fairly poor looking episode, not much better than some of my PD collection. I immediately began to worry that the set would fall far below my expectations. Looking at episodes 3 & 4, those concerns quickly passed.

While Michael is absolutely correct that the set is a mixed bag, quality wise, I'll add that it's perfectly acceptable to me. No, it isn't close to pristine quality. And I will admit that it's a little disconcerting to read Infinity's back side description that claims these first 15 episodes have been "digitally remastered for the highest quality picture and audio possible." That just can't be the case. If these things have been restored, its got to be described as minimal at best. No way is it the "highest quality possible" on either a video or audio level.

Michael's descriptions are pretty much spot on with the audio issues too. There is some definite "warbling" during a few of the opening themes. Fairly noticeable stuff, to be honest.

Having said all that, it's not a bad set at all. Most of the episodes are solid looking. Then again, I've never considered myself a big videophile or audiophile. I'm just happy to have the episodes in an acceptable format. If they look great like THE FUGITIVE transfers, all the better. But they aren't that bad. Kinda like DANIEL BOONE, SEASON 1 - just like Michael said.

Like Docdoowop, I too was disappointed with the packaging. It's really not a great set up. I'd much prefer individual slimline cases. The slipcase looks sharp, but the cardboard foldouts have never been big on my list. And the inside plastic casing isn't great either. But for me this is purely aesthetic type stuff that wouldn't influence my purchasing decisions.

And for the record, I don't feel like anyone here has exhibited a "spoiled" mentality. Not at all.

Gary "in spite of these quality issues, I still heartily recommend this set to everyone" O.

Re: Best of Route 66

It could well be that the film elements they used had some warping. That would account for the audio issues. Maybe the prints weren't stored all that great and it doesn't sound like they went back to the negatives, just to a set of 35mm dupes. So it is definitely not going to look like Paramount's DVDs, which are remasters from the negatives.

Re: Best of Route 66

Unfortunately, Curt that's not the case here. Here's my assessment for what it's worth:

Best of the lot--

4. "Man on a Monkey Board"
5. "The Strengthening Angels"
14. "Play it Glissando"

The Bottom of the heap--

2. "A Lance of Straw"
10."The Beryllium Eater"
12. "Sheba"
13. "The Quick and the Dead" (Worst in the set, IMO)

The remaining episodes fall somewhere in between and overall are more closely allied with the bottom four. I will say that for one reason or another these episodes play better on my portable dvd player as opposed to watching it on my 36" Sony (thank goodness for small favors) so I guess that's how I'll view them.


That sounds like a reasonable assessment to me. The fact that it's a smaller studio and not Paramount we're dealing with hints at their not being able to afford the outlay in costs for using prints struck from the original masters. But then, if Sony were to have been involved, presumably intending to use a better source, there would have been no release at all--and thus we have our proverbial catch-22.

Re: Best of Route 66

They probably would have been better off going with the 1-inch transfers that were done for Nick at Nite in the mid 80s. Those looked great, cleaned up and remastered. That would have been better than a dirty transfer, which is what they probably did with these prints.

BTW, television shows, especially those done 45-50 years ago, were not meant to be watched on humongous screens. They were produced and meant for a small picture, not like a theatrical film. Maybe that's why it looks better on your laptop.

Re: Best of Route 66

Gary, have you been able to do any comparisons of those episodes that appear in this new set versus those on the "Best of" set that were among the first 15 episodes? I'm just curious as to whether or not different source elements might have been used for the two sets, though that seems unlikely considering that Roxbury Entertainment was behind both releases. Several of the customer reviews at Amazon for the "Best of" set (no longer in distribution) praised the quality of the prints utilized for that earlier release.

Meanwhile, I'm biding my time waiting for the delivery of my set . . . . .

Re: Best of Route 66

Paul Mavis has reviewed the set for DVD Talk; here's his take . . . .

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read....=31114&___rd=1

Re: Best of Route 66

Another excellent, well constructed review by Mr. Mavis. Leave it to him to get to the very essence of what makes a tv series a timeless classic. If Tennessee Williams or Ernest Hemingway had written for television, they might have come with something along similar lines. And Paul must have an encyclopedic knowledge of character actors...he expects me to know who Zohra Lampert is? Maybe he just listed all who appear.

I was a bit surprised to see that Paul regarded episode 12 ("Sheba") as one of the better episodes for transfer quality as I relegated this to the bottom of the stack. I guess I need to go back and look at it more closely.

True, Bob, one can't help but think that two sets of source elements were used for this set since there is such a divergent quality in the video between say, "Play it Glissando" and "The Beryllium Eater". I'm also very interested in Gary's take on the comparison of the two sets.

Re: Best of Route 66

Unfortunately this is what tends to happen when the owner of a show's elements doesn't do the release. They cobbled together whatever sources they could. As I said in an earlier post, they would have been much better off sourcing the DVDs from the 1-inch transfers that ran on Nick at Nite. Those were remastered from the 35s and looked beautiful. Does anyone have contact info for the guy who put this deal together for Infinity?

Re: Best of Route 66

Roxbury Entertainment purchased the rights to the series from Sony as part of a deal so that Roxbury could produce a new "Route 66" movie. The company's owner is Kirk Hallam and he was involved in putting out the original "Best of" compilation as well as the new release (Infinity is simply the DVD distributor). Press releases say that the company is headquartered in Santa Monica. I found some contact information for a Roxbury Entertainment that was archived at Oddpath.com. I have no idea as to how accurate it is but I'll send you a PM.

Re: Best of Route 66

Bob, thanks for that Paul M review link.

Mike, you're sure right about that guy's TV/DVD reviews. it gives some of us who haven't seen this series a great snapshot and helps us decide on the "buy or not" question.

I scanned through it fast but a couple of things caught my eye.

Here's a quote from Paul's review that I think really hits the target on why I've "discovered" some of these late 50's/early 60's series, thanks to you guys here.


That says a lot of why I am awed by that Fugitive series, for one example. Also, that "Untouchable" episode with Jack Lord..."Jake Lingle Killing"? Wow!

Another part (from Paul's review) that would ordinarily prevent me from buying this set is that at least some of the eps are apparently the edited/syndicated versions. However, since I haven't seen this series previously and, as Hank said, it's the only way I can get this set from an official release, I think the content of this one will swing the deal for me.

Re: Best of Route 66

Jeff, as I was scanning through these episodes, I took it for granted that they were all unedited so I was shocked to read in Paul Mavis' review that "A Fury Slinging Flame" comes up very short with nearly 5 minutes hacked off. I also learned that several different logos appear in the end of an episode, owing to different sources used.

I left Paul some positive feedback on his review and he provided a prompt reply thanking me for thinking so highly of his incisive commentary. I like to do this because, hey how many people heap praise for these great old shows anymore? Seems like more and more, reviewers to old series are apologizing for a show being 'dated', appearing in B&W, not smoke-free, stereotypical, etc.

Re: Best of Route 66

I'm generally not a stickler for print quality, when it comes to old and often rare series. But "Route 66," with its on-location work and visual, historic preservation of roadside americana, really BEGS for top-flight prints and transfers. So, I can't deny I'm a bit disappointed, even though I do find the majority of episodes serviceable. The main sore points with me seem to be "A Lance of Straw" and "The Quick and the Dead." Watching the former episode (last night), with its 16mm-ish picture and thin audio, was particularly disheartening. It made it seem like a very antiquated artifact, compared to my print recorded off of Nick-at-Night, which was so much brighter and sharper, and exuded so much more life (for lack of better wording). Comparatively, I guess it is rather amazing how differences in print quality truly affects the viewing experience. And, I say that as someone who is often very content with old, well-used 16mm syndication copies.

But again, it might be primarily because "Route 66," like "Naked City," has the importance of its colorful, realistic backdrops. The background atmospherics are far more important to these shows, compared to something like "77 Sunset Strip" or "Ben Casey" or such. Those changing and varied backdrops are just as integral as the scripts, the guest-stars, and such. Lesser print quality takes a bigger hit on them.

Other than the two aforementioned episodes, I think I'll find the remainder tolerable enough, despite some qualms. I've only spot-checked them so far. I'm pretty familiar with all these episodes, having taped the whole series on Nick-at-Night, and watched them over and over again through the years. I don't know if my opinion on the print quality will change as I go through these. Next up is "The Swan Bed," which was always one of my favorites of the 'early' episodes. As a sidenote, last year, I met Elizabeth MacRae (who had a small role in that episode as a stripper in one of those New Orleans nightspots) at a show, and she told me that she was actually offered a job from the owner of the spot, to her great surprise. She had quite a few memories of her 3 or 4 "Route 66" appearances, all rather nice.

Anyway, it's such a fascinating series, on so many levels.

Re: Best of Route 66

You raise a very important point. I know that in having watched all 60 "Naked City" episodes that were released, the city of New York, its architecture and culture both are integral to the atmosphere of the show and is seemingly a "character" in its own right.