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DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

#1
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4/11/07 at 1:41pm
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http://www.dvdtown.com/news/dontgett...toblu-ray/4407

snippet:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVDTown
Toshiba has been good in issuing firmware updates for their players to make sure they are compatible with future HD-DVD releases. You might believe this is the case with Blu-ray as well, but no. Recent comments from the Blu-ray camp indicate that they have yet to complete final specifications for the interactive component called Blu-ray Disc JAVA (BD JAVA). What this means is that when the specifications are finally decided upon in late October, 2007, one's Blu-ray player bought before that date may not play parts of future Blu-ray releases. Imagine the confusion in a store trying to figure out if one's machine will play a specific extra.

HD-DVD knew the importance of a strong set of features from the get-go, and they had their mandatory features ready from the start. They made sure that every HD-DVD player had an Internet connection (which is not required by Blu-ray), allowing easy updates of the player and opening up exciting on-line features that we will see on HD-DVD releases this fall. Their interactive layer, called HDi, has also been in place from day one, and we have already seen it in various releases. "Batman Begins" and "Miami Vice," for example, showcase picture-in-picture and the possibility to make one's own scene-selection menus. Warner Bros. recognized the current limitation in Blu-ray technology and decided not to release titles with interactive features on Blu-ray before they knew what to develop for. These titles include things like "Batman Begins," "Poseidon," "Troy," and the upcoming "Matrix" box sets, which are HD-DVD exclusive for now.

I must draw a conclusion from all this: Don't buy Blu-ray. Not before the Blu-ray camp have finalized the format's specifications. Not before the manufacturer will GUARANTEE 100% compatibility with future Blu-ray releases. If you don't want to buy HD-DVD, either, that's fine. Wait. Enjoy regular, standard-definition DVDs. For now, however, the only safe and sensible HD choice is HD-DVD.

A nice writeup on the lack of standards on Blu-Ray, which I agree with. Perhaps DVDTOWN will emerge as an editorial counterpart to the self-admitted Blu-Ray centric DigitalBits?
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#2
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4/11/07 at 2:57pm
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

I agree. i'm waiting out the HD war and will likely buy an upscaing player before I buy an HD format, but I would personally like HD DVD to succeed, lower capacity notwithstanding.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#3
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4/11/07 at 3:08pm
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Yay more one-sided rhetoric about the format war and one less website for me to visit.
The Movie Library
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#4
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4/11/07 at 3:50pm
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Hmmmm...isn't that the same thing as saying that if I bought a DD/DTS receiver with optical/coax digital inputs only, the manufacturer screwed me even though they knew Lossless audio was available eventually by means of HDMI?

Technology is always evolving - in every industry sector - product becomes outdated...especially if you are an early adopter...

...better wait for that "someday, sometime, I'll think of upgrading to HD when things settle down" line ...meanwhile 3-4 years of your possible HD enjoyment has passed...

That's the way I look at it...in this industry, you won't always come out ahead. What happens if Toshiba makes some 4-layer disc that isn't compatible on 1st and 2nd generation players?? ooooops.

Mike

Warner Bros. Blu-ray Reviewer
Anchor Bay/Starz Entertainment Blu-ray Reviewer

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#5
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4/11/07 at 4:20pm
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Considering that 90% of the Blu-Ray players on the market are PS3s which can be firmware updated to support any new features, this article is way off base. Now if he wants to recommend staying away from standalone Blu-Ray players, he has a good point. Since the PS3 is arguably the best BD player on the market anyway, it'd be the one to recommend for those looking to get involved. The BD player that 90% of the market owns somehow must have slipped under this guys radar...
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#6
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4/11/07 at 6:19pm
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete T C
A nice writeup on the lack of standards on Blu-Ray, which I agree with. Perhaps DVDTOWN will emerge as an editorial counterpart to the self-admitted Blu-Ray centric DigitalBits?

Self-admitted? Link please, there's no such thing. Especially since you can find nothing but HD DVD reviews of HD discs on "The Digital Bits". Hunt just sees Toshiba and Universal needlessly dragging on the format war.

This whole article is rubbish from a site that has been openly biased from the beginning (they've had that HD DVD.org tab for months). Specs? They have some nerve talking about specs when talk of TL51GB discs are put forth by Toshiba, which may render any and all HD DVD players obsolete.

And this is rich:
"When Microsoft promised that Windows Vista was the most secure and easy-to-use Windows yet, we realized that it would still have security issues and that it might not be that much easier to surf the Web compared to their previous program. We all know this and accept it."

Of course having MS as the other big HD DVD supporter has nothing to do with that point of view.

Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, have ALL released firmware updates. Whether full BD Java works or not has yet to be seen. Pure speculation. Not to mention the movies themselves will play perfectly fine.

The first DVD players didn't provide DTS output or progressive scan. Things we take for granted now. Early adopters know that the first players will not be able to take advantage of all features to come. Why sites like this one have such A.D.D. becomes a mystery.

The editorial written by someone who doesn't even know it's HD DVD, not HD-DVD.

A poorly researched biased article linked by someone with such an inflammatory sig...

PeterTHX

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#7
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4/11/07 at 6:31pm
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
The first DVD players didn't provide DTS output or progressive scan. Things we take for granted now.
Or play DVD-R, -RW, +R, +RW, or play photocd's, or DIVX or do a bunch of stuff that has been added over the years. Hell some didn't even play certain Disney DVD's released at the time.

How about the biggest problem with HD DVD right now....it doesn't play Blu-ray discs.
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#8
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4/11/07 at 6:34pm
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, have ALL released firmware updates. Whether full BD Java works or not has yet to be seen. Pure speculation. Not to mention the movies themselves will play perfectly fine.

Much like most of what is posted here, pure speculation, from both sides of the voice. We tend to believe what agrees with our point of view, and dismiss that which does not, and we are all guilty of it.

Almost every site in the format war has bias, including digital bits. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. By the way, the article in question is just an opinion piece., nothing more. It certainly is not hard to find this type of piece that fits into what ever we believe.

We just recently had a post showing sales figures for disks that was supplied by Sony and it was immediately taken as Gospel by many. showing a sales figure for Casino Royale of 30k, not the 100k Sony announced 'sold' a week or two before. None of these announcements of opinion pieces mean much, and certainly are nothing to get excited about.

Now to the substance of the article, which has been an issue questioned by many, with the support being finalized for Java support due from the BD org in the fall, and with the rummblings that it will be mandatory in future hardware, there is a legitimate question as to whether the current crop of players will be able to support it. No difference then trying to determine if the current crop of HD players will support triple layer disks that are rumoured to be approved by the HD org around the same time.

Thomas Eisenmann(Last updated 12/02/08) HD-DVD CollectionBlu-Ray CollectionDVD CollectionToshiba HD-XA2, HD Add-on, Panasonic DMP-BD55KPioneer VSX-94TXH, Panasonic PT-AE 3000U 1080p 252 HDs, 167 BDs, 1560 - DVDs and going down

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#9
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4/11/07 at 8:00pm
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppltd
We just recently had a post showing sales figures for disks that was supplied by Sony and it was immediately taken as Gospel by many. showing a sales figure for Casino Royale of 30k, not the 100k Sony announced 'sold' a week or two before. None of these announcements of opinion pieces mean much, and certainly are nothing to get excited about.

You always have to be carefull when Sony uses S-words. They have an issue with the difference between "Sold" and "Shipped" in the last year. Seems that since a distributer "Bought" the item in question, Sony tallies it as "Sold". But whether or not a consumer actually bought the product, that can be a very different story.
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#10
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4/12/07 at 7:38am
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan-G
You always have to be carefull when Sony uses S-words. They have an issue with the difference between "Sold" and "Shipped" in the last year. Seems that since a distributer "Bought" the item in question, Sony tallies it as "Sold". But whether or not a consumer actually bought the product, that can be a very different story.
Very true. I should add that I only used Sony as an example. Every organization involved in this war has been guilty of posting fallacious numbers at one time or another, some at every opportunity they can.

Thomas Eisenmann(Last updated 12/02/08) HD-DVD CollectionBlu-Ray CollectionDVD CollectionToshiba HD-XA2, HD Add-on, Panasonic DMP-BD55KPioneer VSX-94TXH, Panasonic PT-AE 3000U 1080p 252 HDs, 167 BDs, 1560 - DVDs and going down

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#11
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4/12/07 at 8:09am
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Why was this posted in the HD Software section when this is clearly a HD Hardware issue?

DVD & Blu-ray - It's all about the movies!
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#12
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4/12/07 at 8:14am
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Pete TC,

Where have you been? We've all known FOR MONTHS that the interactive layer of BD has yet to be finalized... and is scheduled to arrive some time mid-summer (June is the expected date).

The interactive layer of BD should also be more powerful than that of HD DVD when it is available.

The delay in spec finalization for interactivity is one reason why the Matrix is being held off for BD so it can utlize the new spec.

The PS3 will be upgradable to the new interactive spec via firmware. Most first-gen BD players will as well.

I fail to see the dramatic revelation your posts tries to deliver? Were you lacking in all of this well publicized information up until this morning?
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#13
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4/12/07 at 8:25am
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Quote:
Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, have ALL released firmware updates.

Pioneer has as well.

Anyway, I guess the issue I'm failing to understand is why anyone would be shocked by this. Those that point out the shortcomings of early DVD players without DTS support, etc. are spot on in my book. This is merely more ammunition for misleading propaganda designed to cause more increasingly annoying hand-wringing that has occurred as a result of this format war. This is the first time I have been what anyone would call an early adopter, but it is clear to me that it is the first time for a lot of other people as well; they just don't seem to understand what they've gotten themselves into. This is all par for the course.

From this article in PC World:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13...1/article.html

Here are some of the features that the G1 BD players may be without:

Quote:
These features include mandatory minimum storage requirements of 256MB for stand-alone players and 1GB for BD Live-connected players. (BD Live players can download additional entertainment content from the Internet, and will also require an ethernet connection.) All players will also need to support on-demand picture-in-picture via a secondary video stream (which could be accomplished via one video decoder or two, depending on how the real-time video is encoded); in addition, the players must support secondary audio mixing for mixing sound effects generated within the player with the soundtrack of the film.

OMG! Without all this, I just may have to throw myself off a cliff! The horror, the horror!
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#14
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4/12/07 at 8:36am
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Exactly.

And adding to that, the simple fact that these interactive features were being held off until mid-summer for finalization has been KNOWN ALL ALONG by EVERYONE.

To suddenly act like this is a big revelation that's taken the industry/consumer by surprise is classic FUD.

One can intelligently debate the issue of the delayed interactive spec without painting a false picture about expectations/beliefs that never existed.
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#15
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4/12/07 at 9:53am
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

I think the tone of the article is unnecessarily sensational; but, frankly, the issue it raises is the very reason that I haven't yet gotten into BD.

Not long after the Samsung was released (which, clearly, is a "special needs" BD player), a friend who authors BD for a MAJOR company, said there were significant problems with its Java implementation. Since that time I've been very aware that BD's interactivity spec is unsettled, and watching with interest...but watching from the sidelines until the spec is defined.

Clearly, the movie content on BD discs will continue to be accessible on these early-gen players--regardless of what happens with BD-J --but at the BD price point, I prefer to wait. And waiting is something I don't usually do with new tech since I'm a confirmed early adopter.
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#16
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4/12/07 at 10:39am
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

The article is idiotic, to tell people to avoid bluray and endorse hd dvd because hd dvd has done a better job of mandating specs ignores the obvious. And that is, people buy into a format for the movies they can play. If a huge number of movies can't be played on hd dvd, as is the case now, then how can you endorse that format.

Right now, the situation is, that both formats remain a crap shoot. Buying into just one format means you may never get to see a favortie film in HD if it appears exclusively on the rival format. Until the most important part of the format war is decided, and that's studio exclusivity, everything else pales in comparison.
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#17
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4/12/07 at 10:47am
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterMano
Right now, the situation is, that both formats remain a crap shoot. Buying into just one format means you may never get to see a favortie film in HD if it appears exclusively on the rival format. Until the most important part of the format war is decided, and that's studio exclusivity, everything else pales in comparison.

Couldn't agree more.

DVD & Blu-ray - It's all about the movies!
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#18
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4/12/07 at 11:14am
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

lost all interest in an intelligent discussion after reading your sig....






STOP HD-DVD! Half the capacity and 1/4 the good films! DERP! lol....



Am I doing it right?

Guess what...

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#19
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4/20/07 at 1:57pm
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Blue-Ray?...no way!...tried watching my first movie on Blue-Ray and it was very poor...in fact it was so silly that I'm glad I have a dual format player...anyone who thinks Blue-Ray will win the format war is disilussioned by the industry's corrupt attempts to make it win with their propaganda...

IMO HD DVD's are so far superior in Video CLarity and dynamics. HD DVD ALL THE WAY!!
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#20
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4/20/07 at 2:12pm
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Shingdaz,

are you kidding or serious? BD and HD DVD have the same video and audio codecs. Any differences between them are player/studio based.

In any case, as long as you're saying "no" to "Blue-Ray" it doesn't make a difference... the two formats out right now are HD DVD and Blu-ray.

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#21
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4/21/07 at 8:15am
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Yes, I think you had a bootleg! It was a cheap DVD labeled "Blue-Ray", no wonder it was of bad quality!
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#22
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4/21/07 at 9:18am
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Seriously, I spent $1200 on a blue-ray player...to put a simple movie in thats supposed to use 21st century video processing technology and have it look like a child edited it on his computer makes me have pitty for Blue-Ray marketers...this should [b]never![b]happen at all...my HD DVD experieince was much better in comparison...so what should I do....send the movie back and ask for a better version of it on blur-ray?...it's sort of silly...I have to live with it now...luckily I'm one of the few people that can tell the difference between Blue-Ray and HD dvd's...that being said I would not make sense to correct my opinion on both formats since I have both.

SO what do Blue-Ray owners do if for some reason HD DVD's are cut off due to lack of sales?...they accept crap video editing?...unaware of a better format that actually had better results right off the get go?...why would I accept any below normal video quality for any release?...get it?
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#23
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4/21/07 at 11:34am
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

^^^^

yet he doesn't name the movie/discs in question

I also wonder if he's seen Traffic or Spartacus on HD DVD?

PeterTHX

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#24
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4/21/07 at 11:44am
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

I have both of these formats as well. I do not see any of the alleged problems that you claim are occurring with Blu-ray. BLACK HAWK DOWN, CASINO ROYALE, OPEN SEASON, and any other number of BD discs I have watched look as good as anything on HD DVD. Both of these formats have films that are identical in picture quality and both have films where PQ is problematical. Any problems have nothing to do with the formats. They have everything to do with the quality of the original master and authoring.

In fact, the colors on HAPPY FEET on BD looked better on my rig than the HD DVD did. Don't ask me why because I don't know. All I know is that they did. The other advantage was HAPPY FEET on BD actually played, while it continually froze at the same spot on HD DVD.

When you have to shoot...shoot. Don't talk!

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#25
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4/21/07 at 11:50am
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by shingdaz
Blue-Ray?...no way!...tried watching my first movie on Blue-Ray and it was very poor...in fact it was so silly that I'm glad I have a dual format player...anyone who thinks Blue-Ray will win the format war is disilussioned by the industry's corrupt attempts to make it win with their propaganda...

IMO HD DVD's are so far superior in Video CLarity and dynamics. HD DVD ALL THE WAY!!

Let's see...

Rabid format bias (doesn't matter which format) - check
Just joined HTF - check
spreading FUD - check
Obvious troll - check
Added to ignore list - check

Man that's too easy.
Middle Georgia Storm Chasers
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#26
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4/21/07 at 12:51pm
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Re: DVDTown: Say NO to Blu-Ray

Mmm. Hardly anything more to be said about the article on a different forum.
Personally, I'm not prepared (yet?) to say NO to any of the two HD formats, BTW.


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