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*** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

#31
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7/12/08 at 7:17pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

I also thought of MIB as well. In fact, the first film sort of reminded me of MIB (secret government agency fighting off crazy creatures), but that scene in the BPRD seemed pretty darn similar.

A few of the inconsistencies with the first film irked me a little. For example, why was the BPRD HQ moved from Newark to Trenton and yet it looked virtually identical? And why not bring back Meyers (or why have him in the first place - actually that's obvious, but still)? Why does Liz have orange flames around her as opposed to the blue flames from the first film?

Oh, and the cross species thing between Liz and Hellboy did bother me a bit, but since none of the characters had a problem with it, I figured I'd just go along with it.

"Here's looking at you, kid."
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#32
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7/12/08 at 7:34pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

Regarding orange versus blue flames. A possible explanation could be that in the first film she in neurotic and out of control; therefore, the blue flames help to reinforce the image of an out of control personality: burning as hot as an acetylene torch.

In this film, she is more centred and confident. She has control of herself and is comfortable with her power. The orange color to the flame could signify that she has become more stable and in control.

It doesn't mean that she is any less destructive when she uses her power, but in this film she actually does have to work at building up to a high level of destructiveness. In the first film, anything could set her off and she had very little control over it.

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#33
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7/12/08 at 10:57pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

I really disliked this, actually. The look of it was great, and some of the sequences were good. But the tone of the story was all over the map. The bad guys presented one of the goofiest situations ever. I mean


Warning Spoiler! Click to show
Was I the only one thinking 'kill the sister' early in the film, the moment we knew what happened to one happened to the other? Or make her comatose or something? And at the end, isn't that basically what happened?


The big problem I had was a problem that seemed to contradict the first movie. I haven't read the comics, so no comment there. But in the first movie, he was given the choice to fulfill his evil destiny or.. and then he broke that and thus, became a man on his own.

And then this:

Warning Spoiler! Click to show

In the middle section of this film, in the scene with Liz and the Demony/Angel thing, it's just laid out there that yep, none of that in Movie 1 mattered, he's still the one who destroys the world (????)


If that's the case, why bother?
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#34
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7/13/08 at 4:17am
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

I thought the younger HellBoy looked like Eddie Munster in red with a tail and 1 & 1/2 horns sticking out of his forehead.





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#35
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7/13/08 at 6:49am
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

I thought young Hellboy was played by Freddie Highmore. Hah!

"Jee-sus, it's like Iwo Jima out there" - Roger Sterling on "Mad Men"
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#36
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7/13/08 at 9:44am
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattCR
I really disliked this, actually. The look of it was great, and some of the sequences were good. But the tone of the story was all over the map. The bad guys presented one of the goofiest situations ever. I mean


Warning Spoiler! Click to show
Was I the only one thinking 'kill the sister' early in the film, the moment we knew what happened to one happened to the other? Or make her comatose or something? And at the end, isn't that basically what happened?
It's been brought up on the last page. Personally, when they brought it up in the film, I figured that'd be how the movie ends so I just went with it.

It's rather dishonorable to kill/incapacitate an innocent though. Maybe Hellboy or Manning should have brought it up just as a joke or an aside, but it's not something the heroes of the film would have acted on. Their goal was to stop the Golden Army without killing Prince Nuada or Princess Nuala. It was brought up in particular that Hellboy should try not to hurt Nuada because Nuala would be hurt as well. I'm sure it also plays into why Hellboy let him live.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattCR
The big problem I had was a problem that seemed to contradict the first movie. I haven't read the comics, so no comment there. But in the first movie, he was given the choice to fulfill his evil destiny or.. and then he broke that and thus, became a man on his own.

And then this:

Warning Spoiler! Click to show

In the middle section of this film, in the scene with Liz and the Demony/Angel thing, it's just laid out there that yep, none of that in Movie 1 mattered, he's still the one who destroys the world (????)


If that's the case, why bother?
I haven't read the comics either, but from what I got out of it, Hellboy is destined to bring about the apocalypse. It's as simple as that. In the first film, Rasputin tries to get him to do it, knowing the prophecy. Hellboy refuses. But it doesn't change the fact that he's still destined to do it eventually. It can be argued that they should've let Hellboy die, but Liz acted out of love and I'm sure the whole fate vs. free will thing will be agonized over in Hellboy III as Hellboy tries to stop the destruction of the world, knowing that his actions may as well be what brings it about.

"Here's looking at you, kid."
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#37
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7/13/08 at 8:14pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

I thought the movie was pretty good but I have to admit that the "fear and hated by those they save" aspect was irritating. It was my least favorite thing about the first film (in the comics, it's not an issue because the U.N. awarded Hellboy "honorary human" status in the 50s and he operates openly without issue) and here they went and made it the whole theme of this installment.

I can't be the only person who watched Nuada's scenes and thought Del Toro should be directing an Elric movie instead of The Hobbit
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#38
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7/14/08 at 5:59am
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

I saw this last night and Im seeing it again with a couple friends today.

First reaction is that it was disappointing. Its fun, but not much more. Alot of the humor fell flat and I thought there were some pacing problems.

About the 2 plot holes - I noticed both as I didnt read the spoilers until this morning.

The first one. When we see the nose bleed, you know how its going to end. That one actually doesnt bother me so much because I can buy not wanting to off yourself unless its you see no other choice.

The second one with the crown bothers me more. Yes it could have been destroyed at anytime, but what also bothered me is how easily Liz was able to melt a magic item.


"The film is a feast for the eyes."

Visually I thought this was SO impressive. With 2 exceptions, I thought the FX were nearly flawless. Liz fireFX and the shot of Hellboy falling towards the car. I wish more directors would use silicon suits. Nuada's beast, visually it really made a difference over completely using CGI for that creature.

IMHO a nice step up from anything Ive seen in a live action film before. I cant think of another film that so beautifully blended FX and live action. In all honesty, I was awed by how this film looked. Not just the design, but with how well FX and live action looked together. It was amazing to see.

This really should be seen on the big screen because IMHO its one of the amazing films ever made as far as FX go.


And Rays explaination to Matts spoiler is pretty much correct. Remember when they were using he special glasses to see things as they really are. When Abe looks at Hellboy he sees the crown and horns. In the comics Hellboys destiny and purpose has come up a few times.
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#39
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7/14/08 at 12:27pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

Hey, how about some Barry Manilow?! (That scene had the audience in stitches!)

I agree on the points that were made about some of the more derivative scenes, but overall I was entertained by this movie and I would like to see it again. There are some things that don't stand up to close scrutiny and I was expecting a little more at the end...

Warning Spoiler! Click to show
It would have been more satisfying to see them defeat the entire Golden Army on their own terms of brute force, rather than defeating them on a technicality, which is basically what they did

Overall I would recommend anyone see it who likes del Toro, action, monsters, special effects, etc.

"I'LL SHOW YOU THE LIFE OF THE MIND!!!" - Barton Fink

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#40
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7/14/08 at 6:38pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

The interplay between Hellboy and Liz was good as usual, and I did enjoy the film somewhat, but, it has become tiresome the way these kinds of movies always end with a big battle on a studio soundstage.

Granted, nearly every part of this film was shot on a soundstage, but you know what I mean -- an elaborately created indoor environment that is obviously a soundstage is par for the course for this kind of film. Tomb Raider had its model solar system, for example, and the same thing here.

Why can't someone come up with a better last act for these films? Something less obvious. Something more dramatic, rather than just simple action?

Also unoriginal was the Troll Market (same market as the BBC's Neverwhere), and yeah, I also thought the SteamGuy was Jeremy Irons.

I enjoyed the new voice of the FishGuy. Much better than the guy from Frasier, simply because the guy from Frasier sounded too much like the guy from Frasier.


Warning Spoiler! Click to show
Also, on a purely dramatic point, I think that Liz would have been much, much more upset about Hellboy's decision to "out" her (when he outed himself), since she was so fragile in the last movie. Even though she was more in control now that a couple years (?) had passed, suddenly being held up to ridicule again would have been psychologically devastating for her, yet this was treated very superficially.


I think I enjoyed the animated feature in which Hellboy and the team visited a haunted house a bit more than this movie, but, to be fair making a cartoon is probably a lot easier.

"Scientists are saying the future is going to be far more futuristic than they originally predicted." -Krysta Now

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#41
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7/14/08 at 9:15pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_B
I enjoyed the new voice of the FishGuy. Much better than the guy from Frasier, simply because the guy from Frasier sounded too much like the guy from Frasier.

But this sounded like someone trying to impersonate David Hyde Pierce - which it was. The new voice distracted me because it took me a while to adapt to the altered actor.

Does anyone know why DHP didn't return?

Colin Jacobson
http://www.DVDMG.com

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#42
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7/14/08 at 9:31pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Jacobson
But this sounded like someone trying to impersonate David Hyde Pierce - which it was. The new voice distracted me because it took me a while to adapt to the altered actor.

Does anyone know why DHP didn't return?

Geez, this is such a well known story I can't believe you have to ask.

You've actually got it turned around. For the first Hellboy, the studio decided that Abe Sapien should have a "name actor" voice the character, even though GDT was opposed to it. David Hyde-Pierce respected Doug Jones' performance so much, he deliberately inflected his vocal performance to more closely resemble Doug's voice and inflections.

For HB 2, GDT wanted Doug's own voice used in the movie for a total performance. What you're hearing is Doug's own actorly voice - and I should know: He's from my area and was very active in local theater. If you've ever heard him in interviews, he sounds a little bit like DHP all on his own, although he can muster up more vocal variety than you might suspect. Go to dougjones.com for more.
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#43
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7/14/08 at 10:01pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

Doug does the voice on the animated movies (along with Ron Perlman and Selma Blair providing their voices too), so there was time to adjust, for me anyway.

"Scientists are saying the future is going to be far more futuristic than they originally predicted." -Krysta Now

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#44
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7/15/08 at 2:51am
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Jacobson
But this sounded like someone trying to impersonate David Hyde Pierce - which it was. The new voice distracted me because it took me a while to adapt to the altered actor.

Does anyone know why DHP didn't return?
Hell, I didn't even noticed the difference in voices.




Crawdaddy
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#45
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7/15/08 at 5:04am
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

I thought it was a bit better the second time around and the audience was definitely into the the film more than the first audience I saw it.

Last nights group really enjoyed the film alot.
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#46
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7/15/08 at 6:13am
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

Quote:
Hell, I didn't even notice the difference in voices.
Glad you said it first, Crawdaddy! I didn't notice either, but it has been some time since I have watched the first one.

"I'LL SHOW YOU THE LIFE OF THE MIND!!!" - Barton Fink

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#47
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7/15/08 at 2:20pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire Panke
Geez, this is such a well known story I can't believe you have to ask.

Sorry I disappointed you! I looked in this thread and saw no mention of it - and obviously I'm not the only one who doesn't know the story since others didn't even realize DHP wasn't on the movie!

Quote:
You've actually got it turned around.

How did I have it "turned around"? DHP did the voice on the first flick and didn't return for the second. How is what I said backwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
Hell, I didn't even noticed the difference in voices.

Funny - I realized it wasn't DHP when I saw the trailers. The voice is close but not close enough... :shrug:

Colin Jacobson
http://www.DVDMG.com

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#48
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7/15/08 at 2:37pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Jacobson
How did I have it "turned around"? DHP did the voice on the first flick and didn't return for the second. How is what I said backwards?

Colin, I believe you originally stated;

"But this sounded like someone trying to impersonate David Hyde Pierce - which it was."

What Claire was referring to in her reply, was that in the original movie David Hyde Pierce was trying to imitate Doug Jones' voice, as he really respected Doug's performance of Abe Sapien. Hence in Hellboy 2 Doug Jones isn't "trying to impersonate" DHP, he's using own voice.. the voice you would've heard in Hellboy if the studio hadn't insisted DHP do the voiceover.

I believe on the director's cut DVD of Hellboy it mentions that DHP really didn't want to do the original voiceover. He had to be pushed into it as he admired Doug Jones' original performance so much.

With Del Toro's newfound clout after Pan's Labyrinth, and the great performances from Doug Jones as The Fawn & The Pale Man, they had a bit more power over the studio this time round.
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#49
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7/15/08 at 4:22pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

"Turned around" means that you thought Doug Jones was aping David Hyde Pierce in HB II. The fact of the matter, based on what Claire stated, is that Hyde Pierce was aping Doug Jones in HB I.
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#50
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7/15/08 at 5:11pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

It's also worth noting that David Hyde Pierce took his name off of the first film so as not to take anything way from Doug Jones' performance.

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#51
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7/15/08 at 6:29pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer
"Turned around" means that you thought Doug Jones was aping David Hyde Pierce in HB II. The fact of the matter, based on what Claire stated, is that Hyde Pierce was aping Doug Jones in HB I.

Got it - I misunderstood the use of "turned around"...

Colin Jacobson
http://www.DVDMG.com

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#52
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7/16/08 at 8:08am
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

I had fun seeing the first Hellboy movie and even more fun seeing the second. The creator, Mignola and director del Toro with the artists they selected to collaborate with are building a grand modern myth is a worthy effort.

Flaws and all, Hellboy II is grandeur and the titular character is what makes me fascinating to watch. Del Toro has shows his skill in straddling art-house and fantasy genre. One of the best visionary directors out there and I’m glad he’s getting more in the mainstream.
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#53
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7/18/08 at 12:58pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

A couple of questions. Did I hear the steam guy say "suck my swanstuchah!" towards the end. If so, that's a little homage to Young Frankenstein. And weren't there a couple of other references to past films, via a tv screen: Bride of Frankenstein and Creature from the Black Lagoon?

Why are HB's horn's cut off? I have not followed this franchise and I'm curious.

I enjoyed the troll market, it kept me busy looking for all the creatures in it. I don't think SW has the patent on scenes with lots of aliens.

Johnny
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#54
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7/18/08 at 1:35pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

He keeps his horns shaved down because they make him feel self-conscious about being a demon.

And yeah, there were a few Universal horror references peppered throughout the film.
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#55
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7/18/08 at 4:46pm
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Sheets
He keeps his horns shaved down because they make him feel self-conscious about being a demon.
So, he, ah...thinks he's less conspicuous with the horns shaved down? Awww...that's cute, but kinda like the bald man's comb over, it doesn't work.

Johnny
www.teamfurr.org
Another cat? Perhaps. For love there is also a season; its seeds must be resown. But a family cat is not replaceable like a wornout coat or a set of tires. Each new kitten becomes its own cat, and none is repeated. I am four cats old, measuring out my life in friends that...

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#56
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7/21/08 at 6:13am
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

I mentioned this in http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...y-control.html and I was wondering if anyone else had a similar experience.

I saw Hellboy II on Saturday and I was quite confused. It seems that it was not properly framed or something weird was going on. Throughout the whole movie I could see about one foot or more of movie above and below the screen frame. You could see part of light scenes distorted on the ceiling. Anyone have any idea what was actually going on? In one scene Liz reaches down below the frame to grab something and I could see her actually grabbing it, while I guess where it was properly framed people would only see her bringing the item up.

Neil
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#57
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7/21/08 at 10:36am
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

I'd blame the projectionist.

"Here's looking at you, kid."
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#58
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7/26/08 at 1:12am
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Re: *** Official HELLBOY 2: The Golden Army Discussion Thread

I thought visually and technically (the sheer craftsmanship), it blew away the original. It looks like it cost twice it's budget, and you can literally get drunk off the imagery. It just keeps coming at you, from beginning to end. It's definitely worth seeing on the big screen for that reason alone.

But although there are some great character moments throughout, I didn't think the story/narrative through line, worked as well as the earlier picture. I can definitely say the third act/climax of the first film hit me much harder emotionally. This one one didn't even come close. Although I thought the original had flaws (mostly due to studio interference and a tight budget), the 3rd act really raised my estimation of that picture. Hellboy 2's tale just didn't amount to much emotionally, from my perspective.

I did love Abe getting beefed up as a character, and Johann Krauss was a great addition.
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