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Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

#61
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7/27/07 at 10:30am
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Sure, it's like colorizing. I don't like the new title music either. The singer is too upfront. But there is enough coolness in the HD version of the live action augmented with the mostly well done CGI effects that makes this a very interesting alternative version.

That's true, but $200+ is a total rip off for an "alternate" version.

I don't get it really. Many of the people embracing this bastardisation of Trek are the very same people who called for George Lucas' balls on a stick when he messed with Star Wars.

Perhaps Trek is less important to some people. It isn't to me.
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#62
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7/27/07 at 12:01pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by John H Ross
That's true, but $200+ is a total rip off for an "alternate" version.

I don't get it really. Many of the people embracing this bastardisation of Trek are the very same people who called for George Lucas' balls on a stick when he messed with Star Wars.

Perhaps Trek is less important to some people. It isn't to me.

did the Trek guys ruin the original negative in order to create these HD versions? That's what Lucas did for his Special editions

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#63
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7/27/07 at 12:17pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey3rd
did the Trek guys ruin the original negative in order to create these HD versions? That's what Lucas did for his Special editions

And no one has kept classic Trek away from me. I can watch it on TV or DVD anytime i want. Old effects and all! But id also like to watch The Doomsday Machine with NEW effects anytime i want, as well.
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#64
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7/27/07 at 12:22pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

At least they haven't digitally changed the Phasers to look like walkie-talkies or Communicators. LOL

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Scott

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#65
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7/27/07 at 1:04pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by John H Ross
That's true, but $200+ is a total rip off for an "alternate" version.

I don't get it really. Many of the people embracing this bastardisation of Trek are the very same people who called for George Lucas' balls on a stick when he messed with Star Wars.

Perhaps Trek is less important to some people. It isn't to me.

(comments without actually having seening any on the new remastered eps)
John, the impression I get, is the difference in tone and intent between the two projects (SW and ST).
For one thing, none of the changes in ST seemed to be changing the tone of the sequences or specific story points (both of these happen, for instance, in the new Mos Eisley sequence of SW).
Also, the changes to ST are not predicated on overwriting or completely replacing the originals- which is what Lucas has stated as his intent with SW.
Had Lucas followed this same paradigm, as well as allowing and keeping the originals in print and up to date (ie not using 15 yr old low res masters) in home media, he would be viewed as derisively as he is.

I would have much preffered, rather than seeing redundant content on the sd dvd- that we would have gotten a direct port of the prior sd season release. To me, that would have ben the 'definitive' release, and would have allowed immediate comparision between the old shows (in standard def) and the new modified ones in High def- both versions presented in the way they were originally intended.

As this releas is now, the vast majority of people will be buying ti for either the sd sides or the hd sides, but very, very few will be buying it for both...which means just about everyone is be extorted into paying (excessively) more for this for features they don't need or want.
That is just about the worst marketing blunder I can think of.
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#66
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7/27/07 at 1:16pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR
Changing the effects shots doesn't change how the live action shots were framed.

No, but if you could improve the look, make the package super slick, then why not go for it? I'm not saying just whack off the top and bottom and go, I mean do try and frame things so they look good shot to shot. You know, come at it with an artistic eye.

But if done right, why not?
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#67
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7/27/07 at 2:04pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

John Ross, have you seen the remastered episodes. I see you live in England. It was my understanding it has not been shown their?
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#68
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7/27/07 at 2:05pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Sure, it's like colorizing. I don't like the new title music either. The singer is too upfront. But there is enough coolness in the HD version of the live action augmented with the mostly well done CGI effects that makes this a very interesting alternative version.

Well, why can't Paramount issue the cleaned-up HD original-effects episodes as extras in the same set? That way, you satisfy the purists, the newbies, and the completists all in one whack.

As someone already said, the color grading, etc. was in sore need of improvement, so the current SD sets are nowhere nearly as good as they should be. Add to that the slight edits here and there, and the terrible, terrible "fake" soundtrack on The Cage (not that that will ever be restored to the original even on the HD versions).
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#69
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7/27/07 at 2:30pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER
John Ross, have you seen the remastered episodes. I see you live in England. It was my understanding it has not been shown their?

No I haven't seen them. I have, however, seen a good number of screen shots and it doesn't take an idiot to know how these are going to look in the context of the episode. I have also heard the newly recorded (and vastly inferior) Main Title. Why, oh why, oh why...?

I object in principle to the concept. I see no reason for the changes (apart from the obvious $$$$$)

Star Trek is a product of its time. Dodgy effects come with the territory, as do polystyrene rocks, hyper-realistic lighting, minimalist sets and production design. They should have just left well alone.

But now, a model Enterprise that was so famous - and possesed such historic TV significance - that it found its way to the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D.C. has been replaced with a run-of-the-mill CG facsimile. And Paramount is boasting about this as a "good thing". Well of course it is, for THEM. They get to sell the whole thing again for (estimated) $600 a pop!

Well good luck to them.
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#70
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7/27/07 at 7:42pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

John- You're certainly entitled to your point of view, and I respect that.

What is interesting here is that the producers of this project felt exactly the same way you do when it was presented to them. Just because they changed their minds and went ahead with the project is not a sign that it's blessed. Robert Justman has approved the effort as has Roddenberry's son, but they had no input or control of the project. I think we all have to make our minds up if it was the right thing or not.

I think it's a fun project. It was rocky at first, but they've got the hang of doing the Enterprise now.
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#71
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7/28/07 at 3:09am
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

I am also in England and have seen about 8 episodes of the redone Star Trek.

I think they have done a superb job especially with episodes like The Doomsday Machine. In my view, the changes have not affected the integrity of the original episodes at all; with the exception of the broadcast episodes being cut.

I would have said that I can't wait to see all the episodes in HD but at that price I think I will have to do without. I already have the whole series on DVD and that will suffice until Paramount finally realise that they can't keep ripping us off. With Smallville season 6 in HD for $56 and Heroes season 1 in HD for $73 there is absolutely no justification for charging over $200.
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#72
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7/28/07 at 5:52am
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Don't know if you folks have seen this, but apparently Paramount is "testing" TNG in HD. The problem, as many know, is that the effects shots were done on video.

http://trekmovie.com/2007/07/27/cbs-...mastering-tng/


I don't have time enough to watch all these DVDs!

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#73
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7/28/07 at 6:20am
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Favate
Don't know if you folks have seen this, but apparently Paramount is "testing" TNG in HD. The problem, as many know, is that the effects shots were done on video.

http://trekmovie.com/2007/07/27/cbs-...mastering-tng/

Let's hope they have to CG all the effects shots in this too - and DS9 and VOY. That way I'll be able to avoid re-buying those too! :-)
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#74
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7/28/07 at 7:58am
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

judging from the DVDs, the folks doing the opticals worked next to a dry cleaner and left their windows open.

come see the reviews at
http://thedvdlounge.com/

and the Seinfeld Tour Bus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DztXpmMbj_0

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#75
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7/28/07 at 9:22am
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

I know the asking price is very high, but a poster on the last page did remark that he was at Comic Con and asked a DVD panel why Paramount prices Star Trek so expensively. Bill Hunt of the Digital Bits was on the panel and did say he had talks with CBS Paramount about the price and that CBS Paramonut are rethinking a new price point.

Oh yeah, I had started a thread in the HD section about the HD testing they are doing for TNG: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...d.php?t=259966
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#76
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7/30/07 at 2:52pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by John H Ross
Let's hope they have to CG all the effects shots

All ship shots were done with physical models on film, so they could be recomposited.

-Jay

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#77
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7/30/07 at 8:06pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Pennington
All ship shots were done with physical models on film, so they could be recomposited.

Chances are they didn't save a lot of that footage. Hope they did.
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#78
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7/30/07 at 9:16pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

I was one of the folks that reserved judgement on the Remastered Trek until I saw it.

Briefly, I was impressed. While the CG in the earlier efforts needs improvement, overall they've remained respectful and they've done some beautiful work. The new shots don't pull me out of the story, nor do they alter storylines. (The broadcast cuts, on the other hand, are horrendous... but that isn't Paramount's fault.)

I'm a massive TOS fan. I enjoy the new versions (although yes, the singer on the main theme IS too "up-front".)

However, despite the fact that I'm a massive fan, I can not justify this outragious MSRP. I seriously hope they rethink this.. because while I'd love to have TOS in HD... NOTHING can excuse that ridiculous price.

Nothing.
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#79
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7/30/07 at 9:30pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Tony-

I posted this link to the Digital Bits in the Star Trek Remastered thread in the HD software section, but it applies here:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

Bill Hunt summerizes a discussion at Comic Con regarding the price and content of the HD set.
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#80
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7/30/07 at 9:56pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Whalen
I was one of the folks that reserved judgement on the Remastered Trek until I saw it.

Briefly, I was impressed. While the CG in the earlier efforts needs improvement, overall they've remained respectful and they've done some beautiful work. The new shots don't pull me out of the story, nor do they alter storylines. (The broadcast cuts, on the other hand, are horrendous... but that isn't Paramount's fault.)

I'm a massive TOS fan. I enjoy the new versions (although yes, the singer on the main theme IS too "up-front".)

However, despite the fact that I'm a massive fan, I can not justify this outragious MSRP. I seriously hope they rethink this.. because while I'd love to have TOS in HD... NOTHING can excuse that ridiculous price.

Nothing.

I finally caught an ep over the weekend and had the same reaction you did Tony. I thought the cgi was extremely well done, and respectful. Of course we are only talking about 2 or 3 30 second establishing shots, but I was still wondering how well they would mesh with the low budget asethetic of the 60s live action material. And I thought they did well. I was just as, if not more impressed with how well the HD scanned original footage looked. Even on a 480i set, the colors were eye popping. This is going to be a stunner on HD- but like you said its a complete non starter with that price.
For one thing, if nothing else, the HD version should have seemless branching to the original effects in HD. None of this pop up window on 7 eps crap. We aren't talking miles of footage here, just a few minutes per ep.
and then the price needs to come down at least $50-70.
I don't need or want some cheesy quasi video game fly by of the cgi enterprise- just give me the shows looking and sounding great and complete (with full access to the original effects) at a fair cost.

Is that really that hard a concept to understand?
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#81
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7/31/07 at 9:26am
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

There's just no way I will be picking this up for this kind of money. I could see paying maybe $75 for the season- but even that is steep -- especially for a show that I've now bought once on video tape and twice on DVD!

And double-sided discs for my trouble? You have to be kidding me.

Sorry, CBS Paramount, but no way.


I don't have time enough to watch all these DVDs!

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#82
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8/9/07 at 12:13pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Bill Hunt also said that the pricing for the first set was overpriced as well for not offering the DVD side as a special release for fans.
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#83
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8/9/07 at 1:54pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Of the newly mastered episodes I've seen, I found the color timing to be abysmal. Fruity, weird...not unlike those garish cubes of space food the crew orders up from the replicators. I found it not at all faithful to the original look of the series, and I don't know whether they were shooting for that, by the look of it; it smacks of a drastic re-think in terms of the classic look of the series.

New effects: Weirdly self-conscious, not drastic enough to be an "enhancement," and yet not subtle enough to NOT call attention to themselves. What was the point, because they just took me out of the story only to remind me I shouldn't bother to take notice. Distracting and pointless changes. It feels like they really wanted to go a lot further, and didn't, so they shouldn't have done anything. Either respect the integrity of the show, or don't, but don't try these bizarre-o half-measures. I would not place these changes in the same ballpark as the tweaks made to Star Trek: The Motion Picture, as the aim there was faithful completion (which worked marvelously), whereas the original series tweaks are a half-hearted school of upgrade.

The only interest for me was the improved image clarity, but that's the full extent of any improvement.

I think these new transfers are an absolute disaster. I'll be snapping up the original dvds before they're retired.



--Jack
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#84
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8/9/07 at 2:33pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Johnson
Of the newly mastered episodes I've seen, I found the color timing to be abysmal. Fruity, weird...not unlike those garish cubes of space food the crew orders up from the replicators. I found it not at all faithful to the original look of the series, and I don't know whether they were shooting for that, by the look of it; it smacks of a drastic re-think in terms of the classic look of the series.
--Jack

I know I am not going to change the minds of those who don't like this Remaster project, and I am not going to try.

But the way the process was described at the begining of this project they took the camera negatives and transferred them to HD tape. They said they went back to the Red Green and Blue film emulsion layers when scanning and claimed to clean out the majority of the dirt this way. The scratches and hairs were removed and because they said they used the original film negatives, the colors and contrast are as we've never seen before. So I think we are simply used to seeing the older transfers, which look a tad faded to me now on the current SD DVD's.

Color-wise, the show was garish in a sense, the sponsers wanted bright colors to sell color TV's. Seeing it now remastered is like watching a whole new Star Trek and the part that is more exciting is seeing the remastered live action. The CGI is not really all that amazing, it simply does it's job, and has been doing a competent job recently. But seeing the live action is really great! Are the colors right? They look right to me.
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#85
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8/9/07 at 2:44pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
I know I am not going to change the minds of those who don't like this Remaster project, and I am not going to try.

But the way the process was described at the begining of this project they took the camera negatives and transferred them to HD tape. The scratches and hairs were removed and because they said they used the original film negatives, the colors and contrast are as we've never seen before. So I think we are simply used to seeing the older transfers, which look a tad faded to me now on the current SD DVD's.

Color-wise, the show was garish in a sense, the sponsers wanted bright colors to sell color TV's. Seeing it now remastered is like watching a whole new Star Trek and the part that is more exciting is seeing the remastered live action. The CGI is not really all that amazing, it simply does it's job, and has been doing a competent job recently. But seeing the live action is really great!


I wonder if the negatives had degraded, as I suppose there could've been some drift over the years from original intent?

At any rate, I'll take another look at one of these episodes with that in mind and see how it plays. The chief problem is with flesh tones; with my properly calibrated set, I should be able to have color saturation at a proper level without peoples' faces going purplish, pink and beet red... Switching back to an earlier master, there is no comparison: The new masters look, unfailingly, like cat vomit. But I will give them another look.
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#86
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8/9/07 at 3:31pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

The one color that stood out the most in terms of flesh colors is Nimoy's. With the yellow-greenish make-up he had as Spock, he looks the most changed.
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#87
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8/9/07 at 3:59pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Quote:
I wonder if the negatives had degraded, as I suppose there could've been some drift over the years from original intent?

Until we see the shows on disc, we won't have a good sense of the colors, since the broadcast signal is subject to the whims of every piece of equipment that is carrying the signal to your home. Remember that the acronyn ntsc is known (facetiously) as "never twice the same color".

"Scientists are saying the future is going to be far more futuristic than they originally predicted." -Krysta Now

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#88
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8/11/07 at 8:14pm
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
They said they went back to the Red Green and Blue film emulsion layers when scanning and claimed to clean out the majority of the dirt this way.

?

This isn't three-strip or successive exposure Technicolor. One negative, with all the layers together as one piece of film. You don't get dirt on one color and not the other. All the dirt is on the surface, not between layers.

I guess what they were getting at was that they used RGB filters to scan the film three times and thus have greater flexibility in the color correction. But a piece of dirt on one of those scans is going to be visible on the others.

-Jay

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#89
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8/14/07 at 4:36am
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

All I know is that Paramount is screwingt fans once again by overcharging fans for a Star Trek DVD based set. There is no way in Hell that I'm going to buy this set, so another 10 years are going to pass by before I consider buying any of their sets. I have yet to buy a single set and I'm so sick to death of Paramount and their pricing structures for their DVD sets.
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#90
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8/14/07 at 8:53am
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Re: Star Trek TOS DVD/HD-DVD coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Pennington
?

This isn't three-strip or successive exposure Technicolor. One negative, with all the layers together as one piece of film. You don't get dirt on one color and not the other. All the dirt is on the surface, not between layers.

I guess what they were getting at was that they used RGB filters to scan the film three times and thus have greater flexibility in the color correction. But a piece of dirt on one of those scans is going to be visible on the others.

Jay, I pretty much quoted what a technician said from one of the promo videos that came out at the time of the Remasters premiere. I thought it was odd too and didn't make sense.
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