"Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

Does FOX have any plans to fix the Todd-OA disc in the "Oklahoma" set? They've corrected other problems such as "Cleopatra" (1963) in the past where you could get a replacement disc.

The Other FOX R&H DVDs look fantastick. The TODD-AD Version is clearly superior to the Cinemascope version as a film but the dvd is such a mess. NOW that they're all out - any news?

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

Well, they passed up a chance to correct it before the big box set that just came out. I'd say that they don't care. I'm hanging on to my old Oklahoma dvd because it still looks better than that train wreck they've been selling lately.

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

My personal opinion is that the Cinemascope version is the better movie. Not better color, but better performances, and more camera angles and movement.

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

Now would be good time for an Ultimate Edition of this title with Oklahoma's Centennial celebration having kicked off this weekend.

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

What is the problem with the Todd-AO disc?

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

It has the sharpness of a VHS tape and the color of a slightly faded 16mm print. Probably the worst transfer I've seen from a major studio. However, at least the 5.0 sound is excellent

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

FOX should also fix the sound on the Sound of Music. The first disc had better audio, and a minor sound effect is missing in the opening song.

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

while moving my dvd collection around tonight i came across my coppy of this dvd.

since i have the ps3 now i decided to pp them in and re-look at this.

there is no doubting the problem with the todd-ao version being very soft and lacking bright color.
the cinemascope version looks beautiful, in the color brightness dept.

i think i prefer to watch the todd ao version over the other one.
the CS "OK" looks artificially sharpened.
there is still some very slight flicker, and plenty of EE ringing.


i think the framing of the todd OK is much better.
in the begining with the horse riding past the corn stalks.
you can see the entire head of the hosre.
on the CS disc his nose is cut off.

i guess about 20 minutes in or so on the todd version there is a long shot of the train station that is clearly a better shot then the CS version.
on todd the entire valley is in the frame.
including the train tracks and everything on the other side of the train station.
the cs version appears to be a pan and scan of the todd shot.
as the shot moves from one side to the other to get the same scenery in the shot.

anyway in spite of the flicker and the softness of the todd disc i prefer it.
this is using the ps3 to scale to 1080p

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

Please stop this. The OKLAHOMA Todd-AO disc is a complete disaster from beginning to end. The picture quality is soft and fuzzy AND faded. The sound is a non original mix. Fox know it was a mistake yet won't correct it.

The general consensus agree this should have been recalled in the first 10 days, but what is more alarming is how it got out there in this state in the first place. The elements were in a poor state so why even release it? It is just a con to get people to buy it as a curiosity, but when they do it is unwatchable. THE SOUND OF MUSIC transfer, was not sharp and was lacking in color too. These films are jewels in the Fox crown and deserve better treatment and so do the consumers.

Fox - please get your colour transfers right and use original sound mixes before releasing your exciting line up of classics in the coming months.

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

Um, I think that the OKLAHOMA TODD-AO disc has the original sound mix, man, just conformed to 5.1 DD. The same thing has been done with tons of musicals that were in 4 or 6-channel and then transferred to DVD advertising "Digitally Remastered in Dolby Digital 5.1!" WEST SIDE STORY, FUNNY GIRL, SWEET CHARITY, HELLO DOLLY (though heavily filtered) etc. all have the original sound mixes with mono surrounds on DVD - either in 5.1 or 4.0. Until we have 5 channels across the front in our home theater setups, and a sound encoding/decoding method commiserate with that, we won't have the TRUEST representation of these sound mixes.

Oh, and I don't think the TODD-AO anamorphic DVD is as bad as a lot of people complain. I posted some screen captures comparing all three releases (non-anamorphic Todd-AO, anamorphic Todd-AO and CinemaScope) a while back. This talk of it having VHS quality and faded color are just crazy exaggerations. The original transfer used for the Laserdisc and DVD was processed and altered quite a bit in the video realm, looking NOTHING like film (save for the density flashing problems in some damaged scenes). It's funny people hold it up as a reference, sort of like what has happened to THE SEARCHERS with its widescreen Laserdisc, as if the excessive edge enhancement and ringing aren't enough to clue someone in as to how the image has been manipulated.

The first Todd-AO release looks ghastly on my 42" HDTV upscaled through my Sony Blu-Ray player. Not so with the anamorphically enhanced version. Is the anamorphic release amazingly wonderful? No, but to hold the first release up as the standard I feel is also foolish. Find me another film from that era shot on Eastman stock that had such unnatural colors as represented on the first DVD release (or that had the aliasing, jitter, or edginess brought on by that transfer). I don't see how anyone viewing it on a larger HD set could prefer it to the anamorphic reissue.

Why don't more people complain about what was done to the sound on HELLO DOLLY, or any number of other musical releases? NONE of them sound as good as the Laserdiscs, especially the ones encoded as AC-3 Laserdiscs (comparing he AC-3 tracks, of course).

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

"please stop this"

what is that?

all i siad was i prefer the todd over the other one from the two choiced i currently have.
i also mentioned the problems todd has.

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

The Todd AO version is a complete fiasco. As said above, Fox should have withdrawn it and replaced it.It is too late now for anything to be done even if Fox wanted too, but,of course, they don't.

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

I think they are taking the same position as George Lucas and the original trilogy: They consider the Todd-AO version to be nothing more than an "extra feature" and therefore not worthy of any restoration effort.

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

The Todd-AO DVD is definitely a fiasco.

I saw a 30 fps print of the Todd-AO OKLAHOMA! and it had probably the sharpest, clearest, most eye-popping image I'd ever seen on a movie screen. To see the 24fps 35mm version look better on DVD than one derived from a
30 fps 65mm negative version is just plain wrong.

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

John you are so right. The film looks great projected on a big screen in Todd-AO. Most 70MM versions of films look much better. The laserdisc in the 90's and 1st DVD were from the Todd-AO print (Which many consider the better version of the film, as do I) The film really needs to be remastered. FOX even admitted they messed it up - but nothing has been done about it (all comes down to Money)

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

It's not as bad as your usual public domain DVD, I'll give it that. No one is exaggerating when it looks VHS quality. I actually had to take out one of my DVD-R tape dubs to check to see I should say that earlier. Not that it shares the artifacts introduced by VHS, but it offers about as much resolution. There's nothing to defend on the image quality.

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

The earlier DVD release of OKLAHOMA was the Todd-AO version and looks infinitely better than the one released for the 50th Anniversary release, so I am keeping the earlier disc preciously.

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

The earlier disc is rubbish; it's the same nasty VHS quality elements with a ton of edge enhancement slapped on top of it. Fox for some reason hates Oklahoma!

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

Oddly enough, here's what Variety said in their original review of the Todd-AO version of "Oklahoma!" at the Rivoli theatre in New York City (from the issue of October 12, 1955):
That sounds very much like the DVD! Wouldn't it be ironic if the DVD is actually a correct reproduction of the way the film originally looked in Todd-AO?

While I'm copying here, Variety goes on to say:

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

I would like to buy this film, in it's original presentation, but which one do I buy? Can anyone help me get the RIGHT release copy?

Jack

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

Guess I'd better be specific: I actually want to buy the right version of Cleopatra!!

Jack

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

Just reminding everyone here that Oklahoma! is not a Fox film. Fox had nothing to do with its creation, and even the initial post-roadshow release was distributed by RKO. The movie, prints and negative, are owned by Rodgers and Hammerstein, a theatrical organization. If there is anyone to blame for the decomposition of the original elements, it is R&H.

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

That sounds very much like the DVD! Wouldn't it be ironic if the DVD is actually a correct reproduction of the way the film originally looked in Todd-AO?

Apparently the print used for the premiere was not optically corrected for projection from the Rivoli's usual projection box high up at the back of the theatre and had been "flood damaged "at the processing plant.How these mistakes were allowed to happen is any one's guess but a new print was quickly substitued. I first saw Oklahoma in a late 60's reissue and the quality was stunning as I am sure it has been eversince .

Ironic, that this has again happened with this Fox release, yes, but no substitute or replacement this time, much to Fox's shame.

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

Speaking of Cleopatra... Which version is the better one? Can anyone help?

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

Actually, I thought the premiere print of OKLAHOMA at the Rivoli WAS the "optically corrected" print (designed for projection booths with a height greater than 20 degrees) but that these prints just really didn't work that well.

Didn't the Rivoli almost immediately move the projection booth to a head-on location and switch to a non-corrected print?

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

Not quite correct -- RKO went out of the distribution business at just the time the general release of "Oklahoma!" was beginning (late 1956.) That release of the CinemaScope print was definitely through 20th Century-Fox.

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

[
Didn't the Rivoli almost immediately move the projection booth to a head-on location and switch to a non-corrected print?[/quote]

When the Rivoli was substantially refurbished for the premiere of Oklahoma and Todd AO, it ended up with two projection booths- one at the rear of the mezzanine with a projection angle of 2.8 degrees( "straight on ") and the regular booth at the back of the balcony with an angle of 22 degrees. The average theatre rake was 18 degrees.This was for industry demos to show off that Todd AO with the corrective prints was compatible to all theatres.

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

I think DeeF is referring to the initial "road show" release of the Cinemascope version that Martin Hart talks about here:

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/wingto7.htm

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

I was watching South Pacific for the first time last night, and in the credits it is billed as being filmed in Todd-AO, yet SP looks infinitely better than Oklahoma!
What is the story there with the discrepency between the two in terms of PQ?

Re: "Oklahoma" any plans to correct the Todd-AO disc?

Does the Rogers and Hammerstein box set contain the same bad transfer of the todd ao version of Oklahoma?