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Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

#361
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8/11/08 at 8:13am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Deeb
Reboot, or simply ignore the Kid.

Why? Because every single Hollywood superhero movie that adds these "shocking" storylines is hated by the film's biggest and most loyal supporters.

There are no shortages of examples. Everyone seems to hate / despise these instances below, none of which ever happened in the comics:


Warning Spoiler! Click to show
Superman has a kid. Spiderman's uncle is killed by the Sandman. Joker killed Batman's parents (Tim Burton movies). Cyclops is murdered (WTF).


I liked SR up until the idea of that damn kid.

And its a disgrace that Marvel & DC let it happen over & over again.

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#362
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8/11/08 at 10:19am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

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Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
I loved Superman Returns (well, everything except the Lex Luthor stuff) but it did feel like the final film in a trilogy.

It definitely felt like a closure to a trilogy. Time to reboot with Lex as corporate CEO and NO KID!!

Bring back John Doe! Or at least resolve the cliff-hanger with a 2hr movie or as an extra on a dvd release.

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#363
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8/11/08 at 10:30am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Hasn't the ship sailed on a reboot though? If they were going to do that they would have had to with the last movie, to do a brand new origin story now would feel both too soon and awkward.
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#364
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8/11/08 at 10:32am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Well, I loved Superman Returns...epecially in it's IMAX form. I've stated this several times but SR in IMAX remains one of my favorite cinematic experiences. There were some personal variables going on that heightened that experience but it was pure joy seeing it that way.

I liked the kid. ...I'm a sap though.

Singer should direct the sequel. Look what he did with X2 compared to the first one.
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#365
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8/11/08 at 11:03am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

I must be among the few who liked SR without reservation.... I loved the movie. It paid homage to the Superman movies I grew up loving, ignored the later movies that I would have hated had they come out any other time than when I was a kid, yet made it feel current and vital.

The parts of Donner's Superman movies that I connected most with, on an emotional level, were the parts that focused on Superman being this outsider, wanting on some level to live something close to a normal life or at least be able to enjoy the things that come easily for most people, but often sacrificing personal happiness for the greater good. And in Superman II, when he does make the attempt to try to live a mortal life (be it Donner or Lester's version), it comes back and bites him in the ass in a big way.

For me, Superman Returns continued this theme, and it's one that makes sense... wouldn't Superman be among the loneliest people on the face of the planet? Beyond being a visually exciting experience, and it certainly was, Superman Returns was also a very emotional experience for me as well. I had no problem with any of the subplots, kid included. I eagerly anticipate the new Superman movie, whenever it comes out, and hope that it remains in Bryan Singer's control.
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#366
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8/11/08 at 11:12am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!
Hasn't the ship sailed on a reboot though? If they were going to do that they would have had to with the last movie, to do a brand new origin story now would feel both too soon and awkward.

It doesn't seem to have been a problem for Marvel's reboot of The Hulk.

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#367
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8/11/08 at 11:13am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

I wouldn't exactly call the Hulk a complete reboot, since the story picked up where the last one left off.
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#368
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8/11/08 at 11:36am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

No Josh you aren't alone, I loved Superman Returns too. The adult themes -- and by that I mean Superman facing his own mortality, and the solace that one's life continues in offspring -- were expertly done and I want to see Singer back for the next one.

It is a fair point that the kid doesn't have to be in the next one. He served his purpose representing the continuation of life, just as the dead Krypton represented the end of life, the framing of which made Superman choose to live in the balance, a place where he would knowingly risk his own life by getting up close with all that glowing Kryptonite.

Now that Superman is clear in his head that he will do anything, the next Superman can be that much more intense, action-wise.

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#369
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8/11/08 at 11:48am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

I've made my reservations about SR very clear. I won't rehash them.

I am fine with Singer coming back, and I hope those who loved the first film getting a fitting return to form.

I'll stay away from my thematic beefs with SR, but I will address my narrative concerns: please, please, PLEASE let Superman punch someone in the face (preferably a villain) in the next film. And recast Bosworth, who is boring and has no spark.
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#370
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8/11/08 at 11:50am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!
Hasn't the ship sailed on a reboot though? If they were going to do that they would have had to with the last movie, to do a brand new origin story now would feel both too soon and awkward.

Everyone knows Superman's origin. A reboot would be very easy to do.
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#371
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8/11/08 at 12:02pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

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Originally Posted by Steve_Tk
I wouldn't exactly call the Hulk a complete reboot, since the story picked up where the last one left off.

I haven't actually seen The Incredible Hulk, but I was under the distinct impression that it was a reboot of the Hulk franchise. IMDB calls it a "version of" the 2003 Hulk movie, rather than a sequel to it. Wikipedia refers to it as a "reboot" several times, citing an interview in which director Louis Leterrier says "This is definitely not a sequel. This is a reboot."

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#372
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8/11/08 at 12:08pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

They wouldn't call it a sequal because they wanted no relation to the first one. But the story line picks up exactly where the first left off. It's a reboot in the sense that it's new cast, new directors, new looking hulk.
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#373
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8/11/08 at 12:21pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Well, the Hulk reboot didn't exactly set the world on fire either. In fact, it actually sold less tickets than the first so I don't think a reboot is exactly the way to go if WB wants to make more.
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#374
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8/11/08 at 12:40pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Everyone knows Superman's origin. There's no point in telling it again.

Anyone catch The Onion last week, with Gore-Al sending his son into space to escape the dying planet Earth?
http://www.theonion.com/content/news..._infant_son_in

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#375
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8/11/08 at 1:39pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Tk
They wouldn't call it a sequal because they wanted no relation to the first one. But the story line picks up exactly where the first left off.
I wanted to think of it that way, but although Incredible doesn't seem to go out of its way to contradict Hulk, there did seem to be enough differences implied to the backstory (and Ross seems to have regressed enough in terms of personality) that thinking of it as a reboot seems to be the only way to go. You could make them fit together if you used torturous enough logic, but it doesn't really make sense.

The funny thing about Superman Returns is that a kid isn't an inherently bad idea - Kurt Busiek was making it work pretty well in the comics before Geoff Johns kicked the character to the curb. It's the entire idea that Clark wouldn't be up front with Lois once things got physical, and the way the story made him into a creepy stalker at the end or a deadbeat dad.
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#376
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8/11/08 at 2:04pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Sheets
Everyone knows Superman's origin. A reboot would be very easy to do.

And IMO, in this instance, I take easy to mean lazy.

Besides, and again this is just my opinion and I reluctantly go to this well again, but Smallville has done the origin story about as thoroughly as anyone could do it in any film.
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#377
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8/11/08 at 2:05pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

They could easily jettison the kid. Superman, in the Donner/Singer vision, would want his kid to grow up normal anyway. It would be completely believeable to have an entire movie and never mention him.
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#378
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8/11/08 at 3:33pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Glover
Well, I loved Superman Returns...epecially in it's IMAX form. I've stated this several times but SR in IMAX remains one of my favorite cinematic experiences. There were some personal variables going on that heightened that experience but it was pure joy seeing it that way.

I liked the kid. ...I'm a sap though.

Singer should direct the sequel. Look what he did with X2 compared to the first one.


Pretty much agree with everything you said, Tim(except for the "sap" part).

If Singer ups the action and introduces new villians, I think that a sequel will be fine. It's too soon for a reboot.
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#379
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8/11/08 at 3:37pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Seaver
The funny thing about Superman Returns is that a kid isn't an inherently bad idea - Kurt Busiek was making it work pretty well in the comics before Geoff Johns kicked the character to the curb. It's the entire idea that Clark wouldn't be up front with Lois once things got physical, and the way the story made him into a creepy stalker at the end or a deadbeat dad.
OK this is a bit much: What part of the end makes the Supes a deadbeat dad?!

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#380
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8/11/08 at 4:07pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!
but Smallville has done the origin story about as thoroughly as anyone could do it in any film.
Samllville has overdone the orgin story. At there pace, Clark will be an old man before he leaves Smallville.
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#381
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8/11/08 at 4:57pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Sutliff
Pretty much agree with everything you said, Tim(except for the "sap" part).
Odd, that's the only part I agree with, Larry!

I don't think you can jettison the kid so easy. I know Hollywood treats kids as emotional props, but you can't have someone as moral as Superman completely ignore the fact that they are a parent. It's permanent baggage. Does that mean they can't make a movie and completely ignore the kid? Of course not, but it will weaken the first movie (even more). A kid isn't Jar Jar.
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#382
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8/11/08 at 5:55pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer
Odd, that's the only part I agree with, Larry!

I don't think you can jettison the kid so easy. I know Hollywood treats kids as emotional props, but you can't have someone as moral as Superman completely ignore the fact that they are a parent. It's permanent baggage. Does that mean they can't make a movie and completely ignore the kid? Of course not, but it will weaken the first movie (even more). A kid isn't Jar Jar.

Well, sure you can't completely ignore him. But I see no problem with a couple of throw away lines or just one scene with the kid, while making it obvious that Superman is hiding his identity and/or desires him to have a normal kid life. That would be completely consistent with the character.
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#383
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8/11/08 at 6:01pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

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In over "what could have been news" both comic book big wigs Grant Morrison, Geoff Johns, Mark Waid, and Brad Meltzer discussed what they would do to make a Superman movie actually heartfelt as well as entertaining. Both Morrison and Johns have pitched Superman reboot films to Warner Bros., and Morrison talked about what his film would do.
First, forget Superman Returns ever existed, and stop trying to make him such a martyr who gets kicked around all the time. But that doesn't mean Morrison would have a totally invulnerable Supes. Instead, his movie pitch to Warner Bros. involved a compressed version of his All-Star Superman arc, about Superman confronting his own mortality.
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#384
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8/11/08 at 9:22pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Ok Chuck, watch out! Don't make Timobi angry...you wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

All this chit chat earlier today about Superman Returns got me in the mood for it this evening. Haven't re-visited this since I first got the HD-DVD version back in late 2006.

No need to re-hash my love affair with the film that I probably overstated in the original SR discussion thread. I seem to have also mentioned a man crush on Routh. Yikes! ...The scary thing about that is finding I wasn't alone lol.

Nearly 2 years later, Superman Returns still works for me. Bigtime. Singer doesn't get enough credit here for creating a work that is patient and reflective and also delivers some exhilarating moments. FWIW, I loved the kid aspect. It just hits me in the right spot and the way it flows, hits all of Timobi's emotional chords. Even after seeing this alot back in 2006, seeing it again in High Def just confirmed my fondness for it.

It's popular to have a conflicted and even dark hero (I love TDK by the way)....but I find the world of Superman-Superman Returns specifically to be a breath of fresh air. Totally different worlds for Batman & Superman but they both work.

Let me add a few comments about Singer's direction that I missed in 2006. First, there are some shots throughout SR that are spellbounding. Unreal how time after time, Singer gets a shot that brings the action to a personal AND technical level. The Plane Rescue sequence is revered by many and man does it look and sound great in HD.

SR is not the sharpest image HD-DVD I own (the BR looks the same) but the Dolby TrueHD is absolutely a stunner. There are many great audio tracks on HD-DVD & Blu-ray but Superman Returns HD-DVD might be the best of them all.

This was longer than I wanted.

And Chuck, I loved Bosworth as Lois Lane. She was terrific.
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#385
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8/11/08 at 9:29pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Your not alone, Tim, in fact I feel compelled to state that despite my small reservations about Supes having a child I think SR is spectacular! In fact I need to get my ass in gear and get the BD version.

I'm a Superman fan first and foremost and so there is very little they could do wrong to him or his movies that would get me too upset.
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#386
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8/11/08 at 9:39pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

The BR 'only' has Dolby Digital Plus track that is owned by the lossless TRueHD track on the HD-DVD if you have that choice. Otherwise, yes go grab the Blu-ray!
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#387
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8/12/08 at 3:23am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Glover
The BR 'only' has Dolby Digital Plus track

Really? What the hell happened there? And it's another Warner title just like the upcoming botched Speed Racer BD. Interesting.

For the record I own the Sony BDP S-300 that only has DD+ (come on Sony, where's that firmware upgrade?) however I still want studios to put DD TrueHD on all their titles because i'll want that later.
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#388
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8/12/08 at 4:17am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Saving Superman - Comic Book Creatives Try to Fix the Franchise

Good article with some comic book writers' ideas about saving the Superman franchise.

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#389
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8/12/08 at 4:32am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Glover
Nearly 2 years later, Superman Returns still works for me. Bigtime. Singer doesn't get enough credit here for creating a work that is patient and reflective and also delivers some exhilarating moments.

Tim, I agree with this assessment of the movie. It's crazy that people talk about it like it was some kind of creative and financial failure. It was neither! When I saw it, I thought that, finally, the series was back with a film that - like the 1978 original - was worthy of the legend.

All this talk about creators trying to squeeze their way into the franchise seems just a way of exploiting a perception that the movie somehow didn't work and getting themselves in there.

I'll say it again: The movie was unfairly saddled with the costs of all the failed attempts to get the series going in the 90s (Tim Burton, Nick Cage, Kevin Smith, McG, etc.) so it would have had to do Dark Knight numbers to satisfy anyone. But the truth is it was a financial - and IMO creative - success.


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#390
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8/12/08 at 5:10am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

^^Yep, I have yet to read anything that said that SR was a box office failure.
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