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Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

#121
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12/6/06 at 4:37pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

I also prefer the look of the new suit in general, though I'd like the see the reds made a bit more red (like the inside of his cape looks).

While watching the "making of" features on the Superman Returns HD DVD, I noticed that Singer had Luthor doing some stuff that was much more "over the top" than what ended up in the final cut. I wonder if there was a deliberate decision to "tone that down" made later on in the process?

It was also incredibly clear just how obsessed he was with Donner's original film, though that came as no surprise. While I liked Superman Returns quite a bit, I'm hoping he got that out of his system now and does something more "unique" the second time around. Also hoping he and the writers make the effort to absorb more of the comic book interpretations of Superman over the years and integrate more of that instead of just using Donner's film as the Bible.
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#122
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12/6/06 at 4:51pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

As much as the SR suit has grown on me over time, I still can't get it out of my head the size of the shield everytime I look at it, it's still far too small for my taste. The reason given by the costume designer for the film is absolutely bogus IMO, she said that you have to work with "the body" your given, meaning that that particular size worked with Routh's body type, if you look at the shield in relation to his chest it's clear that there was a lot more room to work with for the shield.

They should at least blow the shield up and make it flush with the stitching on the shoulders, that would translate into a good size shield.

I just have to remember that the shield was that small in the early incarnations of Supes amd that's enough to get me by. If they choose to keep the shield that small for the sequel that's fine but as was said they need to lose that deep crimson red and lighten that up a bit.

BTW, I loved that footage in the documentary of Routh training underwater for the flying, what an ingenius method for getting some of those moves down!
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#123
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12/6/06 at 6:03pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Pippel
I'm on the opposite side of the fence where the costume is concerned. I just watched "Superman The Movie" and the Donner Cut of II, and I like the suit in "Returns" much better.

Agree. I like the suit better in Returns as well.

I finally got my HD-DVD in of Superman Returns earlier this week and watched it. Pretty tough challenge to equal the experience I had this summer seeing SR in IMAX. All 3 IMAX trips were with one of my best friends...HTF man Josh.C and his wife. That remains one of the most pleasurable and fun times I've had in the Cinema in a long time. Certainly up there with the fun factor of seeing the PT Star Wars films. Can't deny the anticipation and hype was greater for Star Wars....but we really enjoyed ourselves. Even the spirit of the moment got to Josh's wife who convinced me to sneak in since we were waaaay in the back and make sure we got our usual prime seat. Of course I did...but repented later. I guess that wasn't a moment of fighting for truth, justice, and the American way.

Anyway, seeing this at home was still a rich experience. It remains my favorite film of 2006. Not only is the quality great but the other intangibles added made it one of the not soon forgotten moments in Cinema.

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#124
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12/6/06 at 6:10pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Design wise the suit is great, I love the rubbery looking cape, the shade of blue and the material used for the tights, the belt, the boots with the S's on the bottoms and the hundreds of tiny S's that are imbedded in the shield.

If they would only make the shield larger and lighten the reds it'll be perfect IMO, those are my only two gripes with it really.
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#125
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12/7/06 at 8:38am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

In photos, I prefer Reeve's suit. On film, I just see Superman, whether it's Routh or Reeve. The costume works because of the guy playing the part.
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#126
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12/7/06 at 3:33pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Just watched this movie over the weekend. I loved it! One of the best super hero movies I've seen in a while. Of course I'm kinda biased since Superman IS my favorite super hero.
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#127
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12/7/06 at 5:08pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda K
Superman IS my favorite super hero.

Mine too, Spider-man is great, Batman is even better, but none will ever beat the Man of Steel.

Oh crap, i'm late for Smallville, thank goodness for DVR's!
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#128
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12/7/06 at 7:21pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Sutliff
In photos, I prefer Reeve's suit. On film, I just see Superman, whether it's Routh or Reeve. The costume works because of the guy playing the part.
Agreed. Routh never looks like Superman in ANY of the stills. He looks like a guy in a Superman suit. On screen, it just plain works, and I never question him for a moment. Reeve always looked like Superman in the suit, both in the films and in the stills.
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#129
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12/7/06 at 7:46pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

I'll go ahead and be a blasphemer, but I think that Routh makes a much better Superman AND Clark Kent than Reeve. For me, one thing that makes Returns rise above the previous Superman films is the absence of camp. Reeve's Kent in particular was way too geeky, sniveling, and milquetoast for my tastes.

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#130
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12/7/06 at 8:10pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

I don't think that's blasphemy, Doug. Although I still prefer Reeve as Superman, I found Routh's portrayal of Clark Kent to be just as good as Reeve's because it was so different.
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#131
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12/7/06 at 8:21pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Reeve is the classic Superman. He's manlier, he broader-shouldered, he really puts the MAN in Superman. A much more iconic portrayal than Routh's.
That said, Routh was the right man to play the Superman that was required of him. He could project the necessary authority when required (the airplane scene comes very close to being as iconic as Reeve's) but was largely required to deconstruct the man of steel.
It's hard to compare Clark Kents, because there was so little of Routh's in the film. Hopefully that will be rectified with a Clark Kent storyline in the sequel. (Wouldn't it be great to see Lois and Clark actually working on a story in a Superman movie?) The lines between the two were far more blurred in "Returns" though, which had it's pluses and minuses. The only problem I have with Kent in this universe is that his relationship with Lois seems purely professional. Kent may not have been Lois's lover in other portrayals, but their relationship goes well beyond business.
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#132
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12/7/06 at 9:54pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Glover
Even the spirit of the moment got to Josh's wife who convinced me to sneak in since we were waaaay in the back and make sure we got our usual prime seat. Of course I did...but repented later. I guess that wasn't a moment of fighting for truth, justice, and the American way.

Anyway, seeing this at home was still a rich experience. It remains my favorite film of 2006. Not only is the quality great but the other intangibles added made it one of the not soon forgotten moments in Cinema.

LOL! What a great night!!! It's memmories like that one that keep me coming back to the big screen time and time again. I'm a huge sports buff, and into a hundred different things and hobbies. Nothing can beat a great movie experience. Well, almost nothing
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#133
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12/8/06 at 4:07am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
I'll go ahead and be a blasphemer, but I think that Routh makes a much better Superman AND Clark Kent than Reeve.

I wouldn't say that but I will do another blasphemy. I prefer Superman Returns to the classic, the mother of all, Superman The Movie! The idiocy of the villains combined with the reversing the time (one of the lamest plot points) kills that movie for me. I would go as far as saying that not one coherent strong Superman movie has been done till now. Singer should have rebooted and remade the original movie completely.
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#134
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12/8/06 at 7:54am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Pippel
I'll go ahead and be a blasphemer, but I think that Routh makes a much better Superman AND Clark Kent than Reeve. For me, one thing that makes Returns rise above the previous Superman films is the absence of camp. Reeve's Kent in particular was way too geeky, sniveling, and milquetoast for my tastes.

I also don't think that's blasphemy, Doug. Routh did a wonderful job with the part and managed to both channel Reeve and bring some new nuances to the role.
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#135
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12/8/06 at 9:40am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Davatchi
The idiocy of the villains combined with the reversing the time (one of the lamest plot points) kills that movie for me.


What? You mean that's not scientifically possible? Hmm, would he instead have flattened the people of the earth through super gravity, or flung them off the face of it depending on the way he went?

You've got to have some lee-way when dealing with a science fiction movies reality .
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#136
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12/8/06 at 10:27am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Ok, it's Otis and Luther more than anything.
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#137
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12/8/06 at 12:15pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

I know this has been discussed to death and rejected by others. But, the more I watch Smallville. The more I think Welling would have made a better Superman. Its not a knock on Routh. Just that the more I watch Smallville. The more I see the "look", "presence" and even the "chiseled face" of Supes. While people question his acting ability. I have seen great improvement in his acting since the first season. And in a couple of episodes. I have seen him really convey that Supes presence.

And yes... I know he supposedly turned down or doesn't want the role.

Out of curiosity...Can anyone imagine Warner restarting the franchise using the Smallville cast? Also, not saying its even remotely possible. But, with the lackluster support for the SR. I wonder if its ever been discussed as a new way to make a Supes movie while going around the last one.

Bring back John Doe! Or at least resolve the cliff-hanger with a 2hr movie or as an extra on a dvd release.

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#138
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12/8/06 at 12:50pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd s
But, with the lackluster support for the SR. I wonder if its ever been discussed as a new way to make a Supes movie while going around the last one.

I don't agree that it was lacklusterly supported, Todd. Lackluster compared to its budget? Perhaps (though it will probably break even). But it sold comparable tickets to Batman Begins, so the audience is there.
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#139
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12/8/06 at 1:11pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

I'm really worried how they use SuperSon. That Kid will be around all the time when Lois is not at work.

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#140
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12/8/06 at 1:21pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Norm:

I think the best way to use SuperSon is to


Warning Spoiler! Click to show
have him be kidnapped/killed as part of the plot in part II, then have his resurrection/rescue feature in the plot of part III.

Of course, I wouldn't want the entirety of the plot to revolve around this, but it is a way that you can effectively remove him from the plot and let the film still focus on Superman.
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#141
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12/8/06 at 1:27pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Atkins
I don't agree that it was lacklusterly supported, Todd. Lackluster compared to its budget? Perhaps (though it will probably break even). But it sold comparable tickets to Batman Begins, so the audience is there.


Yes...But, Batman Begins had to deal with.....


Which came out 8yrs earlier. While we have had almost 20yrs since Superman IV. Enough time for most people to get that movie out of our conscience.

Bring back John Doe! Or at least resolve the cliff-hanger with a 2hr movie or as an extra on a dvd release.

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#142
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12/8/06 at 1:47pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Funny how both franchises essentially wiped out previous films when they rebooted (BB: all the previous movies; SR: wiped out SIII and IV).
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#143
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12/8/06 at 2:00pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd s
Out of curiosity...Can anyone imagine Warner restarting the franchise using the Smallville cast? Also, not saying its even remotely possible. But, with the lackluster support for the SR. I wonder if its ever been discussed as a new way to make a Supes movie while going around the last one.

Oh yeah i've imagined it, but ultimately it wouldn't really work because not everyone watches Smallville, for us SV fans that would be great but to everyone else they would be lost to that particular incarnation of Supes.

Those that dismiss Welling as Supes have either never seen the show or don't understand how much he's improved over the years, he could do it and i'll be forever convinced that he could do it and do it very well. I've surmised that he is as good at Clark as Michael Rosenbaum is at Lex which is freakin' stupendous!

To be honest other than that Godawful remake of The Fog Welling does an excellent job at Clark Kent, the best live action version i've seen actually and he can also do strong nobility just fine, he's done it numerous times on the show now.

BTW i'm also convinced that it was the material and script he was working with on The Fog that contributed to his performance lacking.

It's a good point that it's the man who makes the character shine, both Reeve and Routh have that certain look and gate that makes them both strong actors to play the role, and not to dwell on this but Welling has that quality also. I wish someone would come up with a really good phtoshop pic of him in the suit, not an illustration but a big large-as-life pic of him.
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#144
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12/8/06 at 2:22pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

I'm glad they keep the Smallville world and movie separate... I think its wise. While Smallville is a guilty pleasure for me, I still, and forever, will interpret as an elseworlds tale and not as the definitive origin of Superman. There are many reasons for this, too numerous to write here, but suffice to say, it does not logically evolve to the character and characters I have come to know over the past forty years.

As for Welling as Superman, again, I think it's wise for him to remain out of the Superman movie franchise to help support the notion that he is the young Clark Kent, and still needs to grow and mature into Superman. This is especially true now since the series has run longer than expected and he is already getting up there in years so that helps maintain that distinction.
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#145
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12/8/06 at 3:48pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!

Those that dismiss Welling as Supes have either never seen the show or don't understand how much he's improved over the years, he could do it and i'll be forever convinced that he could do it and do it very well. I've surmised that he is as good at Clark as Michael Rosenbaum is at Lex which is freakin' stupendous!

I've got to say, as a watcher of Smallville, Welling would not make a good Superman. His voice has absolutely no command, no intimidation. He has the "Aw shucks, I just lost my puppy" intonation that simply does not work for the Man of Steel. He's physically fit for the role and did excellent as a young Clark Kent. He has a tremendous heroic aura about him, but he does not work beyond fighting school bullies, for me.
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#146
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12/8/06 at 3:59pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Ri
I've got to say, as a watcher of Smallville, Welling would not make a good Superman. His voice has absolutely no command, no intimidation. He has the "Aw shucks, I just lost my puppy" intonation that simply does not work for the Man of Steel. He's physically fit for the role and did excellent as a young Clark Kent. He has a tremendous heroic aura about him, but he does not work beyond fighting school bullies, for me.

Yes but he's got that "aw shucks" intonation right now because he's still just Clark Kent, Welling is acting that way on purpose because that's what the role calls for at the moment, if he had the chance to lose that and get tough i'm confident that he could. As for his voice, he's an actor, he could alter his voice to suit the role if he tried i'm sure.

I guess I just have more confidence in him as Supes than most but to be fair we've only seen him on the show as Clark, you or I have no idea how he'd be as Supes either good or bad.

I simply bet on good.
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#147
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12/8/06 at 4:02pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Personally, I think that if "Smallville" never premiered, "Superman Returns" would've made a lot more at the Box Office. It's the theory of over-saturation. Why pay to see something on the big screen when you can get it on the small screen. Because he's wearing a suit? Not a big enough difference. I believe that between the release of "Superman IV" and "Superman Returns", that the live action "Superboy", "Lois & Clark" and "Smallville" actually hurt the movie's chances at the Box Office a bit because Superman really HASN'T been gone for that 19 year period.

As much as I enjoyed "Smallville", they should've taken it off the air at least 2 years before the movie premiered. Just my opinion.
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#148
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12/8/06 at 5:32pm
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

If you watch the Smallville episodes when Welling had to play Dark Clark afflicted by Red Kryptonite, you know he's got another side to him vocally that would help in making the transistion to adult Superman.

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#149
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12/9/06 at 7:42am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
If you watch the Smallville episodes when Welling had to play Dark Clark afflicted by Red Kryptonite, you know he's got another side to him vocally that would help in making the transistion to adult Superman.

Wearing a leather jacket and riding a motor cycle didn't do it for me. Even when Welling yells it's like a child is yelling.
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#150
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12/9/06 at 8:13am
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Re: Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Ri
I've got to say, as a watcher of Smallville, Welling would not make a good Superman. His voice has absolutely no command, no intimidation. He has the "Aw shucks, I just lost my puppy" intonation that simply does not work for the Man of Steel. He's physically fit for the role and did excellent as a young Clark Kent. He has a tremendous heroic aura about him, but he does not work beyond fighting school bullies, for me.


Bryan, I would have agreed with you up until last season. Some of the scenes with Clark after Jonathan died. You can really see the command in his voice. I believe it was a scene with Chloe or Lionel where he seemed very confident and sure of himself (in a good way)...Almost the "I am Superman" feel.

Bring back John Doe! Or at least resolve the cliff-hanger with a 2hr movie or as an extra on a dvd release.

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