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Hill Street Blues abandoned?

#31
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10/29/06 at 8:56pm
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gord Lacey
I doubt we'll see any more NYPD Blue either; both shows are on hold (the second time for NYPD Blue).

Yikes, I sure hope not. I hope Fox will at least release seasons 5 and 6 (finishing out the Jimmy Smits years). Season 4 ended on quite a cliffhanger!


I don't have time enough to watch all these DVDs!

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#32
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10/30/06 at 11:31am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Quote:
HSB Changed the face of television forever and good sales or not FOX Should be required to release it or farm it out to someone who will. I garuntee there are many small companies that would indeed release it till the end. So it must make some money!! The idea it's a total loss for FOX is complete BS. These studios are comparing sales of older shows to what newer shows sell and it is not a fair comparison.

And the same goes for st. elsewhere with its 6 seasons. If you are not going to release it all don't bother give it to someone who will. As much as i love HSB, St. Elsewhere is even more a favorite of mine. I hate to see how i react if they screw with us with these releases.

See all of us are worked up here and we don't know for sure fox is done or not with HSB but the fact gord thinks they are makes me think it's true. Fox needs to make a statement of some sorts.

Is FOX just not making ENOUGH profit on HSB or are they losing $$$?

This applies to movies as well as TV shows, I don't see how keeping a product locked in your vault makes a company any $$$? Companies attitude AGAINST farming out product they don't wish to release themselves seems to me to be a formula for losing possible income. By farming out the product they don't wish to spend production money on a company gets some income without the cost of packaging & promoting it themselves. What is the reasoning behind this attitude?

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#33
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10/30/06 at 11:54am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_HR
Is FOX just not making ENOUGH profit on HSB or are they losing $$$?

This applies to movies as well as TV shows, I don't see how keeping a product locked in your vault makes a company any $$$? Companies attitude AGAINST farming out product they don't wish to release themselves seems to me to be a formula for losing possible income. By farming out the product they don't wish to spend production money on a company gets some income without the cost of packaging & promoting it themselves. What is the reasoning behind this attitude?

It's quite easy to assume -- I guess, because everyone seems to -- that just the fact of releasing a product is a guaranteed profit. It's not. Having something locked in your vault making no money is better than releasing it and losing money.

Keep in mind, there are a boatload of costs associated with releasing a DVD set. It's not a guaranteed win.
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#34
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10/30/06 at 12:01pm
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

I really don't see how it is possible to lose money at all. If they tell you they are losing money on a show where they sell say 5k,10k,20k units compared to it sitting in the vault collecting dust, they are full of it!

Not every show needs to sell like seinfeld to make money. A good company is gonna group similar types of shows from certain era's and judge things sales/expected sales from there and not compare sales to current shows and go from there. If they did that most of them would be pretty happy with for an example how HSB has sold and not abandon it. Because the show is making them some money whether they want to admit it or not.
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#35
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10/30/06 at 12:09pm
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Sure there are some cases where it would be better to not bother attempting to release a certain show and keep it in the vault. There are cases for that where you know it's a losing situation going in. But for the most part most of these shows are making a profit that are released. Problem is studios look at it as pocket change and take the attitude why should we bother with this when we can just re-release a bigger name product and make 10 times that much. I have no problem with them doing that at all but don't dismiss the lower end money makers of your company either. Which seems to be the main reason they don't continue with alot of shows. The losing money excuse in most cases is a copout!
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#36
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10/30/06 at 12:55pm
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Do you have evidence for your argument, Aryn? Are you privy to the corporate books, or are you just taking a wild guess?

I promise you these people have no hidden agenda to suppress certain products. These corporations survive to turn profits. That's all. If a company knows how to turn a profit from a product, they're not going to keep it in their vaults and make up excuses. That makes no sense.
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#37
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10/30/06 at 1:32pm
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

I don't profess to know how or where studios draw the line for the profitability of television shows. I just know as a dedicated fan that I wish ALL seasons of HSB would be available. I have hooked my son and he is dissappointed that he will not get to see the rest of the story. I admit that I will also miss it. I paid an extra amount for Brisco, I would be willing to pay more for HSB. Don't get me wrong, I like bargains, but I would pay a premium as this is something that I want all seasons for.

I paid much money for H:LOTS and collected all seven seasons. I want all of HSB. But, as I do not make the release decisions, I guess the bottom line does the talking/decision making.

That is sad as this was a truly historic show that changed the way stories were told on TV.

Guess this one gets filed with other discontinued shows like Barney Miller and Night Court.

As everyone else seems to say, I hope this does not happen to St. Elsewhere.
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#38
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10/30/06 at 1:51pm
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

it's not gonna happen with St. Elsewhere!!! they got the entire Remington Steele series out based on the "well, you know Pierce as 007" thing, St. Elsewhere has Oscar-winning megastar Denzel Washington, as well as Howie Mandel, whose career is probably at it's all time hottest thanks to Deal Or No Deal. I think we'll at least make it 2/3 through St. Elsewhere by the end of next year. HSB doesn't (at least in the early years) have any megastars to whore out their popularity to sell DVD's the way Fox did with Brosnan and Remington and Denzel/Mandel for St. Elsewhere.
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#39
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10/30/06 at 3:01pm
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_F_S
If a company knows how to turn a profit from a product, they're not going to keep it in their vaults and make up excuses. That makes no sense.

Scott: Have you read the thread about the Disney Company and Song of the South?!

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself. Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!
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#40
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10/31/06 at 5:50am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Scott: Have you read the thread about the Disney Company and Song of the South?!

No, I haven't. Can you give me a Cliff's Notes version?
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#41
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10/31/06 at 6:16am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_F_S
No, I haven't. Can you give me a Cliff's Notes version?

Disney won't release Song of the South to DVD...although it has appeared in various regions on LD & VHS. Song of the South is an acclaimed film which has been noted for its use of mixing animation with live action. It won an Oscar for Best Song (Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah) and an honorary Oscar for James Baskett for his portrayal of Uncle Remus. It also brought to lie numerous folktale characters such as Brer Rabbit, Brer Fox and Brer Bear.

Disney won't release the film because they claim (and I'm not sure this has ever been in any "official statement") that the film represents a negative stereotype of blacks. While many feel this isn't even true and that Disney has released other ethnically-sensitive material such as Peter Pan and Dumbo, SotS could be given "Disney Treasures" status and be given an educational introduction explaining the depiction of black lives during the reconstruction by a noted film historian or prominent black entertainer.

This all just came to mind when I read the line of your post that I quoted above. Disney is definitely a companay that understands how to best present its material to make a profit. There is a rather sizeable market clamoring for SotS...yet they keep it locked-away in "Vault Disney" with many of this generation never having had a chance to see it (except though illegal--or complicated--means).

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself. Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!
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#42
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10/31/06 at 6:36am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

The "Song of the South" situation is quite a different animal. Could Disney make some money off this release? Sure, some. But it's not worth the headaches to them. There has been quite a lot of condemnation of the film from prominent black people. Are they being overly sensitive? I have no idea, I haven't seen the film since I was seven. But the fact is, though racial insensitivity exists in other Disney films, the general feeling is it is not as conspicuous in any of those as it is in "Song of the South." And Disney just doesn't want that publicity.

With no such public relations issue, "Hill Street Blues" will live or die on sales, simple as that.
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#43
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10/31/06 at 6:51am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

What Mike says. I fail to see the point of comparison here.
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#44
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10/31/06 at 8:08am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Guys: Lets not read too much into this. When Scott made his point about no hidden agendas on the part of companies to hold back release of certain titles, the example of Disney & SotS, just came to mind. When he wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_F_S
If a company knows how to turn a profit from a product, they're not going to keep it in their vaults and make up excuses. That makes no sense.

it just rang true with me that Disney is a profitable company which regularly mines its vault, but has yet to release SotS to the consternation of film-lovers to whom it makes no sense. I EVEN USED A WINKIE SMILIE!

When Scott responded seriously that he hadn't read the lengthy thread and asked for the "Cliff's notes" version of what's going on, I gave it to him. I understand there is little ethnic controversy with Hill Street Blues although I suppose some Italian-Americans might be offended by Joyce Davenport's references to Frank Furrilo as "pizza man"! Look! Another wink!

A comparison which COULD be made is that in both instances (and in other cases where TV series are stopped mid-stream) the question is left on the table as to why the company holding the rights to the show/movie just don't go ahead and release it to please those fans (however few there may be) who are clamoring for it. As some have argued...it's all about profits--whether there is controversy attached or not.

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself. Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!
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#45
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10/31/06 at 8:24am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

But there is no question on the table as far as Song of the South goes. We know without a doubt why Disney doesn't release it as far as I can tell from your Cliff's Notes on it.

What I was addressing was a couple of comments that "Studio X can make a profit on Product X but they won't release it and use slow sales as an excuse." That's absurd. By no stretch of the imagination can I think of any reason why Studio X would do that. If Studio X believes a product will turn a profit, Studio X will release that product.
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#46
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10/31/06 at 8:39am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Quote:
By no stretch of the imagination can I think of any reason why Studio X would do that. If Studio X believes a product will turn a profit, Studio X will release that product.

You would like to think so and it sounds like common sense. But unfortunately this is not always the case at all!! Sometimes Studios would rather not go through the trouble of wasting time on something that would return a small profit when they can use that time to work on something else that would return alot more moola. You may not like it and find it hard to believe but it is true.
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#47
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10/31/06 at 9:04am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn Leroux
You would like to think so and it sounds like common sense. But unfortunately this is not always the case at all!! Sometimes Studios would rather not go through the trouble of wasting time on something that would return a small profit when they can use that time to work on something else that would return alot more moola. You may not like it and find it hard to believe but it is true.

But can you blame them for that? If we change "DVDs" to "Nails" and say that a company can make more money selling 1/2" nails than 3/4" nails, can you blame them for making more 1/2" nails? Maybe they just make 3/4" nails a few times a year, or they decide to stop making them because there's no need for 3/4" nails anymore, and sales were down.

People that invest in these companies want to see a return on their money, and whether they're making nails, or DVDs, they expect profits. There are also people's jobs that depend on the titles they release. If they release a bunch of titles that lose money, or come in a lot lower than expected they'll be looking for a new job. Sure, we could write emails saying how much we loved the DVDs they put out, but that won't help them.

But here's some good news; the market is slowing down, and there aren't as many big money-makers left. That means the studios will be more willing to go after the titles that they'll make a bit of money on, rather than the titles they'll make lots of money on. There's a better chance the lesser-known titles will be released, but if they don't meet expectations (and no one is expecting them to sell like Seinfeld, or Simpsons), then they won't continue releasing them.

Gord

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#48
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10/31/06 at 9:16am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn Leroux
You would like to think so and it sounds like common sense. But unfortunately this is not always the case at all!! Sometimes Studios would rather not go through the trouble of wasting time on something that would return a small profit when they can use that time to work on something else that would return alot more moola. You may not like it and find it hard to believe but it is true.
Quite true. And to add to the above statement, even if you're still confused as to why a studio would shy away from a product that will return a 'little' money, that time and effort used into making that 'little' money is taking away time and resources from projects that can make more money.
Quote:
If they release a bunch of titles that lose money, or come in a lot lower than expected they'll be looking for a new job. Sure, we could write emails saying how much we loved the DVDs they put out, but that won't help them.
Agreed as well - I don't know why we always have to explain how businesses work in any of these kinds of threads. People assume that the studios are being 'evil' because they aren't putting out a product that we want. What amazes me is that people always say stuff like "Don't the studios realize how much money they'd make if they did....." - I'm pretty sure the studios know what they're doing.
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#49
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10/31/06 at 9:17am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Gord: I can't blame them for that, but what i do blame them for is they should know going in when they release a certain title of where it should fall in the market place. If they are not happy with what it would make don't release it.

It is not hard to have a department that can determine where a title is likely to fall in the profit range ahead of time. Sure sometime's your gonna have research that doesn't help, but usually you can be pretty close. I think sometimes they know that going in with a particular release and just hope it sells better than projected and if not they get out. I see that as being not fair to the consumer who invests in something early on that he would not have otherwise if he knew it wasn't going to be completed. When the studio realizes going in they probably won't be completing the run. That is where i have the problem with the studios.
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#50
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10/31/06 at 9:23am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Quote:
what i do blame them for is they should know going in when they release a certain title of where it should fall in the market place
Try telling that to the studio execs that passed on Madonna and the Beatles
Quote:
It is not hard to have a department that can determine where a title is likely to fall in the profit range ahead of time. Sure sometime's your gonna have research that doesn't help, but usually you can be pretty close. I think sometimes they know that going in with a particular release and just hope it sells better than projected and if not they get out.
Do you really think it's easy to determine how well a release will sell? I'd rather them at least give something a shot...How do you know that any of these abandoned series were "long shots" that the studios gave a chance to?

I'd definitely rather see them give something a chance to sell well (and fail), then to have them give up on it at the "research" level.
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#51
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10/31/06 at 9:30am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Quote:
Do you really think it's easy to determine how well a release will sell? I'd rather them at least give something a shot...How do you know that any of these abandoned series were "long shots" that the studios gave a chance to?

Well not to say it's easy but thats the job alot of people have and for most part they do it pretty well. There are always exceptions though....


Quote:
I'd definitely rather see them give something a chance to sell well (and fail), then to have them give up on it at the "research" level.

I totally understand your point here...
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#52
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10/31/06 at 9:36am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

I think sometimes there are certain shows that should be released no matter what profits are. Groundbreaking Shows like HSB... you think if your the one holding the rights you owe it people to get it all out there. We are all huge fans and are just royally dissapointed. To bad their isnt a hire up in fox that is a HSB Fan or this probably wouldn't be happening.

I think the reason remington steele ended up getting released, wasn't there some hire ups that were fans and they kept pressuring for a favorite of theirs to get released and it eventually happened. There have been shows that have sold better than remington and cancelled, yet they finished the run and i am glad they did great show. So sometimes you get lucky

I guess bottom line is we don't know for sure if HSB is entirely dead so i am gonna stop harping on it now and look forward to St. Elsewhere!
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#53
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10/31/06 at 9:37am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

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I think sometimes there are certain shows that should be released no matter what profits are.
But can you imagine your boss asking you to work for the next 3 months without pay?
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#54
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10/31/06 at 9:41am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

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But can you imagine your boss asking you to work for the next 3 months without pay?
lol.. the funny thing is with what i make he kinda allready is but for longer!
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#55
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10/31/06 at 9:45am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

^^LOL
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#56
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10/31/06 at 11:41am
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Quote:
These corporations survive to turn profits. That's all. If a company knows how to turn a profit from a product, they're not going to keep it in their vaults and make up excuses

Then sell the rights to release HSB to another company that would like to sell it & would be willing to do the production & the promoting of the DVDs. This makes you some pure profit! This, of course, assumes that there is another company that would like to sell HSB. Or does the entire corporate world think that HSB is a $$$$$ LOSER!

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#57
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10/31/06 at 12:22pm
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Quote:
This, of course, assumes that there is another company that would like to sell HSB. Or does the entire corporate world think that HSB is a $$$$$ LOSER!
If the original studio couldn't sell it, why would anyone else want to invest in it? and plus, not only would they have to pont up the money to produce it, but they'd have to pony up the $$ for the rights in the first place. Sounds like a bad investment from the get go.
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#58
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10/31/06 at 1:07pm
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_HR
Or does the entire corporate world think that HSB is a $$$$$ LOSER!

The point is that it IS a money loser. It's been proven.
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#59
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10/31/06 at 1:27pm
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHastings
If the original studio couldn't sell it, why would anyone else want to invest in it? and plus, not only would they have to pont up the money to produce it, but they'd have to pony up the $$ for the rights in the first place. Sounds like a bad investment from the get go.

well, a company like Image or Anchor Bay would probably see what HSB sells and think it's not a bad idea. Fox, OTOH, is all "well, this isn't The Simpsons"
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#60
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10/31/06 at 1:28pm
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Re: Hill Street Blues abandoned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_F_S
The point is that it IS a money loser. It's been proven.

has it actually been proven as a money loser, or that it just doesn't give Fox the 20-fold profit that Simpsons or Family Guy gives them?
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