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Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

#1
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8/21/06 at 1:34pm
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Hi Everyone,

Robert Harris has just produced a new edition of his Yellow Layer Failure column on The Digital Bits:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...ris082106.html

In this installment, he interviews Warner's Ned Price regarding the transfer issues related to the new DVD and HD-DVD editions of John Ford's The Searchers. I think you'll find it interesting reading. When you're done, be sure to check back in here at this HTF thread to discuss the details.

Best wishes to all of you!

Bill Hunt, Editor
The Digital Bits
http://www.thedigitalbits.com
billhunt@thedigitalbits.com

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#2
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8/21/06 at 1:56pm
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Re: Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

That's an excellent interview and it is to Ned Price's credit that he has come forward and given a full and frank explanation. I've got few issues with the new transfer, but I did want was an assurance that what I was seeing was as near to John Ford and Winton Hoch's intentions as was possible and I, for one (the minor niggle of the day for night scene aside) am satisfied.

Thanks also to Robert, and Bill, for helping to clear the air.
So many films, so little time...
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#3
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8/21/06 at 5:56pm
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Re: Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

Personally, I have no problems with the standard DVD. The color has a really nice oil painting look to it. What really impresses me is how amazingly sharp and detailed the image is. If it wasn't for dated items like hairstyle and the use of long gone actors... you could almost pass it off as a new film.

Glad to hear about Looney Tunes in HD. While I won't be able to get into it for a few years, I'm glad WB is making their classics worthwhile.

Tell The Weinstein Company to release Richard Williams' animated masterpiece The Thief and the Cobbler on DVD in Panavision widescreen and uncut! See and hear what you're missing from their Bitsy Award winner of Worst Standard Edition DVD of 2006 on YouTube!
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#4
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8/21/06 at 6:06pm
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Re: Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

Excellent interview. Ultimate Edition, here I come!
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#5
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8/21/06 at 6:45pm
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Re: Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

Folks like Mr. Harris and Mr. Price have forgotten more about film restoration than the collective membership of HTF will ever know. I greatly appreciate the education these types of articles provide to us and thank them for taking the time to share their expertise with us.

I'm not going to pretend that I understand what all jargon in the article means. However, to paraphrase Potter Stewart, I know a good transfer when I see it and, in my opinion, WHV has delivered solid transfers of most of their classic films over the past several years.

Given the respect that WHV has consistently shown to not only their catalog, but their consumer as well, I am confident that their releases, The Searchers or otherwise, represent the best that can reasonably be expected. Short of time travel, they're not going to be able to do transfers from pristine camera negatives every time. Like it or not, there are going to be occasions where the image doesn't look as good as we like or maybe isn't technically perfect.

Sometimes I fear that we as viewers focus too much on the minutia of the DVD presentation at the expense of the entertainment value the movie provides. Does that mean we should accept substandard transfers, stop looking for improved restoration techniques, or stop offering valid criticism? Of course not. But we must also guard against labeling an otherwise stellar product as inferior because a few scenes don't look like we think they should.

Steve
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#6
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8/21/06 at 10:50pm
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Re: Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

Thanks, for a great interview.

However, as both Mr. Harris and Mr. Price are technical wizards the interview quickly skids into the technical restoration jargon making it hard for the avid collector to get a clear understanding of the proces, and what actually happened. Perhaps in the future Mr. Harris would kindly make a short summery of such interview.

Anyhow, the new release of The Searchers seem to be as good as it gets based on the material available. Personally, I have no problem with it.

It´s nice to be important, but it´s more important to be nice.

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#7
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8/22/06 at 6:38am
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Re: Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

Great interview. Very educational. My thanks to both parties.

-Reagan
The truth doesn't care whether you believe it.
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#8
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8/22/06 at 2:45pm
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Re: Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

Quote:
Glad to hear about Looney Tunes in HD.

But it makes you think that the imperfections that are inherent in the original negatives and are plainly seen in shorts available right now in SD in the Golden Collection sets will be viewable so much clearer. Unless WB undertakes yet another restoration, a frame-by-frame digital cleanup.
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#9
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8/23/06 at 5:59am
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Re: Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulP
But it makes you think that the imperfections that are inherent in the original negatives and are plainly seen in shorts available right now in SD in the Golden Collection sets will be viewable so much clearer. Unless WB undertakes yet another restoration, a frame-by-frame digital cleanup.
Why would they bother to do that? Production and element-related artifacts that are plainly visible in standard def would be plainly visible in HD or 35mm film. It shouldn't be any more or less distracting.

Regards,

Ken McAlinden
Livonia, MI USA

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#10
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8/24/06 at 8:57pm
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Re: Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

One thing that I have found very interesting with THE SEARCHERS is this: in the documentary footage of the raid on the Indian camp towards the end of the film, the camera that is in the camera truck is a 3-strip Technicolor camera without the sound blimp (you can see it plain as day and that is not the VV butterfly mechanism that I see). Now I know the film was released in VistaVision, but was it actually shot in that format, or was just this sequence shot using a modified 3-strip camera with the rest in VV? I've never seen production stills from this film showing the VV camera, so I am curious. I have never been able to find the answer to this question, and since only 3 films outside of Paramount appear to have been shot in this format [HIGH SOCIETY & NORTH BY NORTHWEST-MGM; THE SEARCHERS-WB], I'm curious how this all came about.

Oh, is there a more inspiring sight in all this world. . .than the sight of a grown man. . .facing singlehandedly. . .a half-a-ton of angry pot roast?-
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#11
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8/25/06 at 6:49am
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Re: Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbyNormal
One thing that I have found very interesting with THE SEARCHERS is this: in the documentary footage of the raid on the Indian camp towards the end of the film, the camera that is in the camera truck is a 3-strip Technicolor camera without the sound blimp (you can see it plain as day and that is not the VV butterfly mechanism that I see). Now I know the film was released in VistaVision, but was it actually shot in that format, or was just this sequence shot using a modified 3-strip camera with the rest in VV? I've never seen production stills from this film showing the VV camera, so I am curious. I have never been able to find the answer to this question, and since only 3 films outside of Paramount appear to have been shot in this format [HIGH SOCIETY & NORTH BY NORTHWEST-MGM; THE SEARCHERS-WB], I'm curious how this all came about.
The butterfly VistaVision cameras were first used for "The Mountain" in 1956. I believe the production of "The Searchers" pre-dated this by a few months. Ford was probably using the "Elephant Ear" style camera that preceded it. Check out the widescreen museum pages on VistaVision for many photographs of cameras used for VV productions.

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/wingvv2.htm

Regards,

Ken McAlinden
Livonia, MI USA

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#12
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9/1/06 at 10:00am
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Re: Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

Thank you for the informative interview.

I would ask a question, just as a matter of curiosity, and not criticism. Why couldn't the day-for-night be adjusted digitally? I think Mr. Price spoke to it, but his comments didn't quite penetrate my thick skull. (Naively) I would think that something sort of like histogram equalization in reverse (essentially a nonlinear transformation) should be able to darken the scenes.

No offense intended.

Thank you.

Regards.

DG

\"I think not,\" said Descartes, and disappeared.

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#13
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9/1/06 at 10:37am
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Re: Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

Sorry to keep beating a dead horse, but the camera in the shots looks just like an umblimped Technicolor camera, not the "elephant ear" VV camera. It could be like the one in the shot of Hitchcock on the set of MAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH, but I may be wrong.

Oh, is there a more inspiring sight in all this world. . .than the sight of a grown man. . .facing singlehandedly. . .a half-a-ton of angry pot roast?-
"In Old Mexico," by Tom Lehrer

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#14
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9/1/06 at 1:01pm
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Re: Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

There were a number of three-strip cameras converted to the 8 perf format.

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did."  T.E. Lawrence

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#15
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9/4/06 at 1:17pm
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Re: Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

regarding the coming HD of ADVENTURES OF ROBIN HOOD,

Im sure I was not alone in thinking that the colors of the SD-SE released a while back were just too "natural" or a bit faded, at least in my opinion, compared to the "glorious technicolor" that I remember from the LD.
If im not mistaken, even Mr Harris mentioned something akin to AORH looking good, but looking nothing like we remember it... (which sounded a bit like damning with faint praise.)

The color was toned down for todays 'modern' audiences.
A shame.

I loved those warm, rich (if not a tad saturated) 1938 colors, absent from the DVD.

I wonder if this issue will be addressed in the HD-or is the master already set in stone?

I notice Ned did a much better job on the latest WIZARD OF OZ...

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#16
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12/7/06 at 8:19am
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Re: Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbyNormal
One thing that I have found very interesting with THE SEARCHERS is this: in the documentary footage of the raid on the Indian camp towards the end of the film, the camera that is in the camera truck is a 3-strip Technicolor camera without the sound blimp (you can see it plain as day and that is not the VV butterfly mechanism that I see). Now I know the film was released in VistaVision, but was it actually shot in that format, or was just this sequence shot using a modified 3-strip camera with the rest in VV? I've never seen production stills from this film showing the VV camera, so I am curious. I have never been able to find the answer to this question, and since only 3 films outside of Paramount appear to have been shot in this format [HIGH SOCIETY & NORTH BY NORTHWEST-MGM; THE SEARCHERS-WB], I'm curious how this all came about.
The 3-strip cameras were modified by Technicolor for shooting 8 perforation images on single-strip Eastman color negative stock. Each frame of a motion picture shot with this camera was the same shape and size as a standard 35mm color slide. These cameras were used to shoot films with spherical lenses in Paramount's VistaVison process and with
1.5:1 anamorphic lenses in their own wide-screen Technirama format.
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#17
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3/5/08 at 4:39am
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Re: Robert Harris on The Bits 8/21/06 - Official Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by John KFilm
Hi,

I have a question about the new restored Searchers: I really enjoyed Robert Harris' interview with Ned Price, but there are a few points that are not clear.

1. Why is there so much brown in the image, particularly for the interiors. This is also the case for the overall look of the film, there seems to be a lot of brown in the image.



2. RAH makes a good point about backing it into the matrices, as does NP about the nature of the print concerning the color capability, but this still does not explain why there is so much brown in the image. BTW, the skies in the new edition are alright, but there is still a lot of brown in the image which interferes with the blue.

Maybe RAH could could clarify. Also, does the Blu-Ray look different than the SD? I have seen some of the online comparisons, but was not satisfied with the comparisons posted.


Color wise the SD and blu-ray/HD DVD are virtually the same. Resolution of course is another story all together.

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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