Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

For those that don't believe the events of the movie took place entirely in Ofelia's mind, what would be the purpose of the opening shot with the reverse flow of blood back into Ofelia then? A deliberate red herring seems beneath Del Torro.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

I had to look on IMDB to find out Doug Jones played Pan and the pale man (and also Abe Sapien in Hellboy).

I'm really tempted to check it out, but this theater is pretty far from where I live...

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

How is that a red herring? That's Ofelia's resurrection back into her world, the world of the fairies, while her body remains to be found by Mercedes. It's two different perspectives. The opening scene, as outlined by the faun, is the way the fairies and Ofelia herself see events, while the end of the movie is how Mercedes sees them. I don't see a contradiction there at all.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Interesting perspective. I took it to be Ofelia's imagination kicking in and begin to rewind events back to the start of the movie.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

As Ofelia ate the grapes, I kept thinking of the myth of Persephone - duality, the underground, the failure to take care, temptation . . . .

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Me too. I kept thinking 'pomegranite!' I was also convinced during that scene that Ophelia was deliberately tempting the pale man because she initially wanted to surprise attack him, I was stunned when she turned and ran in surprise that he woke.

I saw this as basic flashback structure, indicating visually we're starting at the end and being told the story leading up to that point. It's why I wasn't surprised by the ending and remained somewhat emotionally aloof throughout because I knew she would die from the opening shot.

Re: Pan's Labyrinth - reviews

If you looked closely, Ofelia was smiling ever so subtlely, so there is definite reason to see a positive outcome.

I may have to go see it again. Unfortunately I have trouble completely focusing on a film in the theater anymore, but I wanted to make a point of seeing this on the big screen. I was not surprised to see one or two people leave when things got really ugly.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Yeah.

There's also the point that Del Toro has actually said that while the audience is free to interpret as they will, from his point of view the fairy tale is real. He's not a Scooby Doo filmmaker

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Yes and from a interview that was I think linked here, he said he gave a few strong clues - the definitive IMHO being how she got out of a guarded locked attic room

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

You're assuming in that moment of purest hatred that she cared most about being selfless and saving Ofelia. My guess is that she, knowing his vanity, would rather make him live as a hideous creature rather than die an easy death.
If one wants to take the "she didn't have the guts for it" angle, however, it's possible that she slashed his mouth to keep him from talking while she fled.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Here's a question, I believe that the original Title of this film was translated as "The Labyrinth of the Faun", and it was changed to Pan's Labyrinth for States release. If I'm not mistaken, the Faun was never actually referred to as Pan. If so, why call it Pan's Labyrinth instead of retaining the original and better (IMHO) title?

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

I'm guessing they used the name Pan, because the character in the film closely mirrors the mythological woodland sprite known for causing much mischief. Also the Pan character in the film was so grotesque some might have trouble thinking of him as a 'young deer' and wondering where the faun was in the film.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Yes.

The title was changed because in English "faun" and "fawn" sound the same...the filmmakers didn't want people thinking it was a baby deer in a labyrinth, lol.

No mistaking what kind of faun when you invoke the name Pan.

I actually like the name change - for once, it doesn't bother me at all. The faun in the film would never be mistaken for the Greek god but taps into some of the same archetypal myth and source as the woodland Pan. More connections, more layers. Works fine for me.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Honestly, I knew very little about the film when I went (Purposly avoided trailers for this one) and was expecting something quite different based on the name. I was pleasantly surprised, of course, however, I felt the name was a bit misleading.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Finally decided to go see this film, since I heard so many good things about it. It is not a bad film, but unfortunately it was completely dour from beginning to end. This film was basically a two hour shower of the worst of aspects of humanity with a wrap up that basically stated that death is the only way to escape to something better.

Even the fantasy aspects of the film were dour, with grotesque creatures that you wouldn't want to meet in your worst nightmare. Everything was dark, drab, and depressing. An unrelenting foray into the underbelly of humanity. That being said, there were some interesting turns that took place by following such an ugly direction. For instance, the fact that the main character actually preferred to be with something that looked like it had just stepped out of a horror story, rather than be around her stepfather, reinforced how bad she felt her actual reality was.

The film was generally well done and well acted but some of the power in the film was dissipated by making the fantasy aspect real. This film would have been more powerful if the fantasy aspect was something that occurred only in her head; however, the director made certain decisions that reinforced the perception that the "fairy tale" was actually real. Those decisions lessened the film for me. However, I still think that this film, dour as it is, was much better than "Children of Men".

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Well, after checking my local Cinemark (the only theater in town ) for showtimes for 300 this weekend...LO & Behold, Pan's Labrynth is finally going to be here starting tomorrow. Really looking forward to seeing this.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Enjoy Tim! Great movie.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Well I did see this Friday afternoon. Had some family in town this weekend but I waited purposely to post. Wanted to really absorb what I saw and re-read this thread in it's entirety to perhaps give me some insight or confuse me more.

First, I loved Pan's Labyrinth. Certainly among the best of 2006 and firmly in my top 10 when I edit that baby here shortly.

Some of my confusion is & I'll admit I'm not going to state everything as I know I will come across as a blooming idiot...

My questions mainly are in the vein of: is what happened real or imagined/fantasy? It's works both ways really which is a big credit to the film. Kind of thought I had it figured out but then I read some of Phil Florian's posts and thought...."hmm".

I guess each of us can take it for what we want to see I suppose but there were events that took place that were rather disturbing.

Ofelia was wonderfully portrayed. There was some question about why she ate the grape etc...You know I do understand how it does indeed create that dramatic tension and fright, and certainly sets up the faun's return to her. But when I saw this, I just saw a child, who has been through the ringer. She missed a meal already when she was out earlier? Regardless, I saw this as a simple "I'm starved, surely one or 2 grapes won't matter."...

I am in total agreement on the Captain. Fantastic acting and why oh why did he NOT get nominated for an Oscar???!!! Ryan Gosling was pretty good in Half Nelson but Sergi Lopez chews him up and spits him out for a snack.

He was terrifying and also interesting.

I'm a score whore & this one was terrific. Got to add this to Timobi's collection.

I do have one problem with the film and it's in line with Patrick's issue too. Mercedes has the chance to kill the captain. She doesn't? All throughout we see her hiding that knife. She risks her life by giving the key and supplies to her brother and other comrades. This rebel army if you will, is there for one reason...to take the Captain out. I do think the film needed him to stay alive and that's why he lived...Not a MAJOR weak point but it is something that I left thinking about and still do. Not a deal breaker for sure though.

I have more questions and thoughts but now they have left me. I'm old.

I want to see it again and need to soon because it won't be here long. It just started Friday here but there was 2 people in the theater. Around these parts in North Louisiana, most people want to see a picture show, not a reading one. God Help Us.

9.5/10 for now.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Glad you loved it, Tim...can't wait to get the DVD myself.

Now, if you can just see The Fountain your 2006 experience will be complete....

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Good post Tim. Glad you really liked it! This is a classic and I will definitely be picking this up when the DVD is released.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

"only now...at the end...do you understand"

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

This is one of those films that repeated viewings will bring on more "this is what I see now" type feelings. Or it could even totally change...

I understand Del Toro's "legend" status around here...eventhough I didn't care for Hellboy or Blade II. No denying his style or imagery when he directs.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Looks like the dvd will hit on May 15. No word from New Line yet on plans for a High Def release. A missed opportunity if not.

The dvd:



The poster art was rather cool but this will be ok.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

After renting this one last night, I have bumped this GEM to #3 on the much coveted and sought after Timobi Top 10 for 2006. It was #8 after the first viewing.

Someone's got to say this again so I will. ....I like Ryan Gosling....a fine actor with some promise but how in the world did he get nominated over this man & performance?


Unreal.

This second viewing unraveled quite a bit for me and found myself much more absorbed. I loved it the first time but now believe it to be utterly fantastic.

It's a great 2 disc dvd too. Too bad no HD yet.

Certainly one of 2006 Best Films and one I believe will only get better in the years to come.

10/10

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Hmm... contrarily to what I wrote earlier in this thread, I am in no great hurry to see this again. Just not willing to subject myself to that amount of darkness and hopelessness anytime soon (into which the hopeful interpretation of the ending makes no dent).

Gosh I get depressed just thinking about it.

--
H

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

It is dark and kind of hopeless H I agree but I found it beautiful nonetheless and moving. I usually don't like these kinds of films being a sucker for fairy tale happy endings but this one was exactly that.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

It is dark...but it is most definitely not hopeless. This film is a true classic.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Because Americans don't read enough to know what the Philosopher's Stone really is, and....oh, wait, wrong story.

Honestly, though, I agree that the new title actually works better for me. Not sure why. Maybe I like it better than the passive voice for a movie like this.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Saw this on dvd a couple of days ago.

It is an excellent film. It held my attention throughout.

However, it is a very dark, depressing film, filled with violence, torture, and death.

The film is almost two films in one: The first, the "reality part", follows Republican soldiers' hunt for guerrillas. It is stark and brutal.

The second, the "fantasy part", follows Ofelia, in her escape from the brutality she sees around her as well as from her oppressive stepfather, who is in command of the Republican soldiers. This is less a fantasy, and more of a nightmare, as the settings and the creatures are all generally repulsive. How the little girl could warm up to the so-called "faun" is a question only her psychiatrist can answer.

The starkness of the film is both its strength and its weakness. It is its strength because it unflinchingly shows us the brutality that went on during that time as well as how the fantasy of the girl, is itself, affected by her reality.

It is its weakness, because the viewer is never given an opportunity to catch their breath throughout the film, since the brutality of reality is quickly followed by the nightmarish creatures and suspense of fantasy.

What the film attempts to accomplish I give it high marks. I would rate the film as presented as 8.9/10. It is worth a rental.

However, because the fantasy portion is as dark as the reality part, I am afraid that I won't be seeing this film again, nor will I be buying it. There is simply nothing nice in this film, and there is no one to cheer for. Death is the only way to achieve a better existence.

The marketing for this film has compared it to the LoTR films. Sorry, it's not even close.

Had the fantasy portion been truly a glorious fantasy world where the little girl could escape into her thoughts, it would have contrasted better to her reality, and it would have given the viewer a break from the violence, and allowed the viewer to enter a more serene, "perfect" world.

Re: Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth: Official Discussion Thread

Watch the movie again and Ofelia's face. She did escape time and again. Especially in the last scene.