Veronica Mars Season 2

Duncan calls her to come over when Veronica will be there. Kendall, thinking she's gonna hook up with the heir to billions, shows, he doesn't, but she still acts bitchy because, hey, that's who she is. Logan sees that, word gets around. Word probably gets around via Kendall. Everyone buys it when Veronica and Duncan break up.

Sweet.

Frankly, has there been a more elaborate con game in a single ep of television?

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H

We don't actually know that. We only know that Duncan had the opportunity, but they purposely did not let us see if he took it. I'm becoming increasingly convinced that he did not, given the latest turn of events, but nothing was definitively explained either way.

Regards,

I'm surprised people think that he did. Blackouts aside, Duncan is ridiculously trustworthy.

That's why I was disappointed with him when I thought he did it. If you're saying it wasn't spelled out and probably didn't happen, that's fine with me. I'm probably remembering the earlier episode wrong anyway.

Never thought he did either. It would be completely out of character.

Never liked Duncan though. Here's hoping he never comes back...

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H

I'm sure there has been at some point, but that was incredibly elaborate, even for VM, which sets the bar pretty high for elaborate plotting. They usually let the audience connect a lot of the dots on this show, but this episode hit a new high (or low, depending on your point of view). There were an awful lot of dots left over to connect and they left a lot for the audience to figure out.

It was sort of a mini-Sting, what with the fake-out of the audience as well as Keith, the FBI *and* the local Sheriff. Veronica was working her con on three different levels.

My major problem with the episode was that the whole kidnaping scheme seemed unnecessary because Duncan could have simply filed a petition seeking to establish paternity and once the court ordered a DNA test, it would seem pretty simple for him to get custody legally. The Mannings would have an uphill battle at that point to take his baby away from him. I would have liked a better explanation as to why Veronica and Duncan felt that they had no other option but to have Duncan run off to Mexico. That seems like such a bad plan on so many levels.

But other than that big problem, the scheme itself was pretty clever and the episode was very entertaining. I loved seeing Vinnie and Cliff and the callback to the "Vinnie Classic" was, er, classic.

It was a little confusing that Astrid would have helped them with something that could potentially land her in jail, when they never established that Astrid was particularly friendly with either Veronica or Duncan. I assume they paid her? But that's one of the many dots that weren't quite connected. We've only seen her once before and it was just one scene. I doubt most of the audience had any idea who she was, even though they included her in the "previously on VM" to remind us.

I have to say I'm really looking forward to the rest of the season now that Duncan appears to be gone. His character was the only weak link in the show for me. The writers didn't seem to know what to do with him or ran out of ideas to make him interesting.

Yes, the last few shows I found myself wondering what the heck V. was doing with him.

I think that was a common question for fans. Speaking as a hetero female, I know I was thinking, "you have the option to be with this guy (Logan) and you choose *that* guy?" Seriously.

Logan has his issues (okay, he's a jerk as well as an arsonist), but at least he's never boring. Duncan has the personality of a toaster. I usually like the "nice guys" and really wanted to like him, but the writers didn't give me any reason to. He wasn't funny, he never did anything particularly nice or noble, he just sat there. We were never given any reason to understand why V would choose to be with him, only that she used to be in love with him way back when.

And I don't think he ever "atoned" for the horrible way he treated V last year, when he "stood idly by." I wanted to see more remorse or something. Logan was an ass to her back then, but he atoned for it later, defended her with the FBI agent, stood up for her to Dick and the 09ers, saved her life with the Fitzpatricks, etc. He's active, while Duncan is passive.

I understand why Veronica dumped Logan on his self-destructive arsonist ass, but I'd rather see her alone than be with someone like Duncan who never seemed her equal. Heck, I preferred skeezy Troy, who at least oozed charm and sex appeal and had a good sense of humor.

Duncan represents Veronica's desire this season to have a NORMAL life. He's just so friggin BORING it's painful.

I think going back to him was more right for her because it felt secure, and she seemed to be trying her best to re-create her old life... which is never going to happen.

Yeah, I got that. Normal being the watchword and all. I just think they kept her with Duncan way too long and most of the audience was getting very antsy.

I really wanted to like him, but the writers just didn't put enough effort into making him interesting. Wallace is a nice "normal" guy but he's also adorable and charming and has a personality.

I think they just gave up on Duncan for whatever reason, and I think the writers seemed to be aware that his character wasn't working. Which is why I'm looking forward to the second half of the season so much more now. Every other character on the show is pretty interesting. Even Dick is starting to grow on me, and I never thought that would happen. And I can't wait to see what Beaver's been up to, whenever we get to see him again. I think his little real estate venture is going to come up again.

Everything I know about the family court system tells me that the kid is far likelier to end up with the Mannings than with Duncan. As far as I am concerned, the burden of proof is always on the father.

Re: Duncan, the more I think about it, and the more it seems that strong, quietly assertive women like V go for the likes of Duncan -- who, outside of his condition, has a fairly strong rock solid, if very understated personna.

Logan is for your typical badboy-seeking, low self-esteem gal (no offense to Cheryl ).

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H

You are used to thinking of a custody dispute between mother and father. But in this case, there is only one living parent and it's Duncan (as far as we know). The law in CA (and every other state) overwhelmingly favors keeping a child with the biological parents. If there is only one living parent and that parent wants custody of the child, that's that. Once Duncan files a petition to establish paternity and the blood test proves he's the father, the child is his, end of story.

The only way the parent would not get custody is by "clear and convincing" evidence that the parent is unfit and that the child will be in imminent danger of harm or serious neglect. In that case, a court might give custody to grandparents, but the burden of proof is very high on the grandparents to prove that the child would be harmed with the father. It can't be just speculation or "we'd be better parents." That doesn't cut it.

In this case, there is no evidence at all that Duncan is an unfit parent -- he's a model student and citizen with no criminal record of any kind. The only issue is his "Type IV" epilepsy, but his condition is controlled by medication and he hasn't had any known "episodes" in a very long time. And even if evidence of his "episodes" were admitted (which would be doubtful - there aren't many witnesses and Logan and the Kanes aren't gonna talk), there is no evidence he ever harmed anyone. So his epilepsy wouldn't be enough for him to lose custody of his child. Because of Duncan's age, the court might set up a temporary custody situaton where he'd get visits from a social worker, etc. for six months or so before making it "permanent," but he would definitely get custody.

Read your local paper for plenty of stories where DCFS tried to take a child away from a bio-parent and the courts keep sending 'em back, even when there is evidence of serious neglect. It's *very* hard to remove a child from the custody of a parent to give to a non-parent. Usually by the time there is enough evidence to remove the child from a parent's custody, it's too late.

Even if Jake and Celeste cut him off financially, that would not be a reason to take his child away. Poverty alone doesn't do it. He'd have to be living on the street or something before he'd lose his kid and even then, there are shelters where people live with their kids.

Cheryl, that's exactly along the lines I was thinking. I still cannot figure out how two people apparently as intelligent as Veronica and Duncan thought this was a good idea. The only possible catch I can think of is that he might have made himself vulnerable to a statutory rape charge.

This just seemed like a really contrived, although entertaining, way of getting rid of the character.

RG

This is exactly what I was thinking at the end of this episode.

Whadya think VM's IQ is? For a teenager, to go head-to-head with the FBI ain't an easy task.

How can you not love this show, tonight's episode title is "Rashard and Wallace Go to White Castle".

The reaction of Agent Xena told me that she knew something wasn't right and may have been played, which is why she stated that kidnapping never goes away. I think she almost enjoyed the way VM messed with the Sheriff.

Yeah, the feds weren't fooled. Their fruitless search of the Mars home didn't squash their suspiscions.

Cheryl, thanks for the insight.

Patrick, V is far too clever and confident for an 18 y/o girl.

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H

Somewhere between "scary" and "frightening". Her father's probably smarter, though he lacks Veronica's propensity for vindictiveness.

I'd wager the two of them could outwit Willow and Giles while working two other cases each.

I imagine Veronica's probably smarter that Keith, but he's more mature with more experience. All Veronica's brains don't help her when she's willing to make assumptions.

More time devoted to the bus crash + more time devoted to the Logan/Weevil investigation - less Duncan/Baby story = A much better episode. Even the FoW Wallace story was well executed. Some interesting developments...my pick for the mastermind: GUTTENBERG!

Another week, another con.

One thing I don't get is why Vickie and Wallace weren't getting along too well at the beginning, but then they were able to cooperate in the con together. Was the beginning an act to throw off Veronica for whatever reason?

Gia's statement would seem to indicate that, but with ten episodes left I doubt it'll be that simple.


I'm not sure what was going on there. My best guess is that Ronnie and Jackie took Wallace's advice to get together without him, but that doesn't entirely make sense since he was in on the plan.

And what was up with the white girl Wallace was taking out? Was she the girl with the cast from Driver Ed (Jane)? I remember she had a crush on Wallace, so it makes some sense for them to go out, but it makes the situation with Jackie all the more confusing.

Embarassing, but I threw up my arms and let out a little cheer when I saw it was Jane that Wallace was getting together with after the game. I wonder if she'll let out that cute little sneeze if the subject of sex comes up.

Rob

Much more entertaining than the Duncan-Baby episode. I think Rob might have been too consumed with his first directing project. I think we're getting back on track, and though I'd love to see him direct again, I think he definitely should wait until a finale so he's got more time to devote to the episode.

A little upsetting, the ratings weren't great. Up against a new Bones, but re-runs of criminal minds and lost VM only scored 2.14 million viewers... up from last week (1.7 million or so), but still a low considering this season's average has been about 3 million. Though it's a strong consideration for the new CW network this fall, these numbers aren't too wonderful and worry me. Although they were a step up from the previous hour of SOUTH BEACH at 8:00 pm with only 1.42 million viewers.

It needs a new night me-thinks. Perhaps the return of America's Next Top Model later in the season will help pick things up. Most shows go through a similar mid-season slump, right?

Hopefully it will rebound but I think they made a huge mistake going with an almost two month gap in between new episodes.

I definitely agree, Kevin. 24 has the release schedule down perfect. For something not as continuity intense (like VM or Lost) I can tolerate a few 1 and 2 week breaks, but ~2 months is just too long.

I was wondering, I was going to record the replay of wednesday's episode tonight but couldn't because of the super bowl (kind of got rid of the vcr since i have a dvr), so i was wondering if anyone can hook me up via email.
rypro525@yahoo.com

I couldn't have said it better myself.

It's amazing how VM has picked up the pace and entertainment value now that Duncan is out of the picture. "White Castle" finally got back to the mysteries at hand, and that's a good thing. At least Keith remembers the bus crash, even if Veronica has seemed to forgotten it in all the baby nonsense.

I really want to see more of Logan and Weevil working together. I can't get enough of that super duo. I wonder if Logan is going to start offering Weevil rides in the Xterra now that Weevil is hog-free. Heh. And even though all signs point to Thumper being the one who killed Felix, there is obvously more to the story than that.

Now that both Terrence and the Goodman have come under suspicion for the bus crash, I have no idea who it could be. Gia's comments about her dad telling her not to ride the bus make me think that it can be Guttenberg b/c they wouldn't put suspicion on him this early in the season, with ten episodes left to go.

Interesting that Curly Moran is also tied to Big Dick -- Dick jr. said that Curly was his dad's mechanic also. Did Curly work on the car of every rich dude in Neptune? Apparently so. I wouldn't mind seeing Big Dick again, but I can't imagine what kind of motive he would have regarding the bus crash.