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Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

#61
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

michael_ks:
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In my opinion Frontiere's music in S1 has never been bested in the realm of dramatic television. Upon first hearing his many haunting, minimalist-styled and often atonal cues decades ago, well they haven't left me to this day. In the first three episodes you cited, the dramatic punch and high quality of the segments owe a great deal to his original compositions. Mr. Frontiere could have hands down received an Emmy for his music, if the people who vote on such things had any idea what OL was about.
Very well said. Your comments remind me of something I'd like to share. And I don't mean to take anything at all away from Dominic Frontiere, whom I've written to over the years, as I am quite a fan of his.

I am one of those rare persons (at least I think it's rare) who appreciates the closing theme for season two more than I do for season one. This is the one in G minor, with the gorgeous augmented sixth (speaking not necessarily functionally, but rather aurally--the elements of which may be spelled enharmonically, but I don't really know without score in hand) and which also includes the pungent and simultaneous melodic use of an E-flat over D dissonance. Additionally, hearing the note 'G', which is common to both the A-C#-E-G (as the seventh) and Eb-G-Bb major (as the third) triads, in relatively close proximity to one another, always perks up my ears. I have played that CD countless times--I guess I can't get enough of it.

I believe it was first used on One Step Beyond; for years I credited Frontiere with this piece, but later found out it was not penned by him, but rather, Harry Lubin.

See under Theme 2 (1964): "Wierd" in the following link.

The Outer Limits

Here is the tune I'm speaking of--I get chills when I hear it.

http://mythemes.tv/series/themes/closing/outerli3.mp3

Would that I could have written such a gem!

BTW, that E-flat over D dissonance occurs (for want of a better reference point--sorry) about one third of the way through the piece, judging by the movement of the ticker on Quicktime. The E-flat 9th resolves (or is absorbed by) the note D to (I think) an octave (or a compound thereof).
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#62
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

I quite agree about Lubin's closing theme for S2. It's wonderfully ethereal and works exceedingly well as underscore also. One scene that comes to mind: the Asian scientist in "Expanding Human" explaining the myriad facets of consciousness expansion ("...I see ALL leaves falling..."). Lubin's theme is also used to chilling effect in "Wolf 359" as I recall. I'm also a big fan of his original score to "Demon With A Glass Hand".

I envy you your command of music and notes--made for very interesting reading!
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#63
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

michael_ks:
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I quite agree about Lubin's closing theme for S2. It's wonderfully ethereal and works exceedingly well as underscore also. One scene that comes to mind: the Asian scientist in "Expanding Human" explaining the myriad facets of consciousness expansion ("...I see ALL leaves falling..."). Lubin's theme is also used to chilling effect in "Wolf 359" as I recall. I'm also a big fan of his original score to "Demon With A Glass Hand".
I love the word 'ethereal' (and 'other-worldly') when discussing The Outer Limits. It just seems so very appropriate.

Speaking of Wolf 359, I nearly fell out of my chair with joy back in 1989 or thereabouts when the Admiral (Hanson?) in The Best of Both Worlds (from TNG) said that the fleet of ships was going to rendezvous at Wolf 359. I couldn't believe the connection there between TOL and TOS.

You know, that theme of Lubin's is underscored in Keeper of the Purple Twilight as well, right before Ikar steps all over the ants. It's still in G minor, and this time, the notes descend (from D to B-flat to F-sharp, outlining that very unstable--but very musically effective--augmented triad). I think it's performed on that awesome melotron, which crept into the series time and time again.

I love Demon With a Glass Hand (H. Ellison, I believe). The first time I saw it, I had no idea what was coming near the end (where the populace was stored). Incidentally, you probably know this, but Culp's co-star in that episode is Arlene Martel; she played T'Pring (from the TOS episode Amok Time).

Quote:
I envy you your command of music and notes--made for very interesting reading!
Thanks. I pretty much live for music, and think about it night and day. But I also tend to get a bit too technical at times. If it's not appropriate, or seems at all unwieldy, let me know in a PM, and I'll behave.

BTW, now I think I am going to watch Expanding Human tonight. I believe there is another character in that one who makes his way to TOS in a few short years.
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#64
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

I just own the original season 1 release. To bad that they didnt repress this DVD set. I have had to many problems in the past with DVD-18s, and it sounds like its not any better with the new FOX discs. If these are even new, and not just a flat out repackage of the old discs. What a great show, and i love season 2 as much as the first!
Re: Demon with A Glass Hand. I didnt see this until AFTER 1982, and Blade Runner. How shocked was i to see the Bradbury Building in this episode! As a kid, and Trek fan, I had always known of the episode because of Harlan Ellison. I just never got to see it until it showed up on a local station in the early eighties.
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#65
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

RickER:
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I have had to many problems in the past with DVD-18s, and it sounds like its not any better with the new FOX discs.
What are DVD-18s? I've never heard of that term before.
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#66
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
Ron68:

Although I love just about each and every episode from this series, I thought I'd add that my favorites are probably Don't Open Till Doomsday, The Architects of Fear, Nightmare, and The Mutant. The music and sound effects from this series (Frontiere et al.) are astonishing. It's scary how integral these are to the overall viewing experience. On other Boards, I've gone into great detail about this facet of the show. The music has intrigued me for years.
I'm enjoying season 2 more, just re-watched "Expanding Human" and enjoyed it as much as the first time. James Doohan was great in it as the Detective, he could been great in a cop show. There are a lot of really good episodes but some are dull but the music has always been exceptional. The Shatner episode was enjoyable but the "Soldier" show is by far my favourite so far. I never cared for Michael Ansara very much but he was excellent in the role.
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#67
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

Ron68:
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I'm enjoying season 2 more, just re-watched "Expanding Human" and enjoyed it as much as the first time. James Doohan was great in it as the Detective, he could been great in a cop show. There are a lot of really good episodes but some are dull but the music has always been exceptional. The Shatner episode was enjoyable but the "Soldier" show is by far my favourite so far. I never cared for Michael Ansara very much but he was excellent in the role.
I just watched Expanding Human last night. I counted at least three people in that episode that went on to TOS: James Doohan, Skip Homeier (he played Melikon in Patterns of Force and Dr. Sevrin in The Way to Eden), and Keith Andes (he played Akuta in The Apple). I've always liked looking for TOL and TOS connections when I watch either of these series.

I too liked Soldier. Ansara was very good in it. I thought the special effect for the ray gun was done very well, too--loved it when the patrol man's car was disintegrated. I also like Lloyd Nolan--he's another one of those staples from my television youth. And the deciphering of Quarlo's language was a nice touch.

Another of my favorites that I neglected to mention in a previous post is The Invisibles. The sound effects used when that alien is crawling are haunting. It's one of those episodes that I won't show to our younger children, even though I was introduced to TOL when I was five.
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#68
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
RickER:

What are DVD-18s? I've never heard of that term before.

Scott, those are the double sided, duel layer discs that the Outer Limits are on. DVD-14s are also double sided, but single layer (on one side anyway) and dont seem to be as much a problem. And, the problem with DVD-18s is that they seem to delaminate, oxidize, or whatever, making portions of the disc unwatchable. Lots of Universal TV shows were put on DVD-18s. FOX loves to use DVD-14 now. Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea is on DVD-14, but i dont have trouble with those.
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#69
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

The thing I like most about "The Invisibles" is that it has the unmistakable stamp of the OL triumvirate that made S1 so special, namely Stefano-Oswald-Hall. I believe they collaborated on 8 or so episodes, "Don't Open 'till Doomsday" and "The Forms of Things Unknown" among them. I regard the latter as a masterpiece for avant garde expression.

I've always thought of the S2 episodes as being much more conventional, in large measure, no doubt due to Perry Mason alumnus Ben Brady helming the show. Still, I admit that there are some excellent episodes, and certainly a strong case can be made for "Demon with a Glass Hand" taking the honors as the best and most cerebral episode of the series. I'm also very fond of "Soldier", "Wolf 359", "The Inheritors" (Steve Ihnat was exceptional in that one), "The Premonition" and "Cold Hands, Warm Heart". The only ones that are very difficult for me to sit through are "The Probe", "The Brain of Colonel Barham" and "Counterweight".

I had the honor of meeting Harlan Ellison, Arlene Martel ("Consuelo Biros"), William Shatner and James Doohan in the 1970s. They were all very generous with their time and I have very fond memories of talking with them.
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#70
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

Course i am a big Perry Mason fan myself Michael. So that doesnt hurt either. If i recall, OL had its share of "courtroom" episodes as well? I have also met Shatner, Doohan, and Ellison. But i was a kid, of about 13, when i met Ellison, and i didnt really give a crap about the writers. Damn, how young and stupid was i, because i have also met Bradbury and Asimov, and i didnt give a damn!
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#71
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

I was driving down Doheny in Beverly Hills many years ago, came to a stop sign, saw a truck driver casually spit out his window and watched the loogy unfortunately land on the hood of a very sweet-looking Mustang beside it. Next thing you know, this little guy jumps out of the Mustang in full road rage and starts pounding on the door of this big truck screaming, ranting and swearing. The truck driver took off, leaving him standing and yelling there.

It was Harlan Ellison, god bless him, in classic mode.

(And, by the way, IMHO, the first season of Outer Limits with Stefano and Conrad Hall and Frontiere was pure gothic noir art, unequaled ever since. The second season under Brady ... not so much, but a few classics, including the two by Ellison).

Oh, damn, one more Ellison story. James Cameron was attached to direct a screenplay of mine early in my career for a Canadian production (I later backed out for 'artistic' reasons - don't ask - big big dummy). While working together, he showed me his first draft for The Terminator. I told him I thought it was very cool but, as a OL fanatic, wasn't this "Soldier" from the second season? He smiled and waved it off.

The rest, including Ellison's lawsuit and subsequent credit on all prints of The Terminator ... is history. But I did warn him, (and especially after witnessing the road rage incident) ... you don't mess with Harlan Ellison.
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#72
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywoodaholic
The rest, including Ellison's lawsuit and subsequent credit on all prints of The Terminator ... is history. But I did warn him, (and especially after witnessing the road rage incident) ... you don't mess with Harlan Ellison.

To make matters worse for Cameron, didnt he consult with Ellison before he had made Terminator? Its been a few years since i read about the whole situation.
Speaking of Ellison, and the OL, fans should check out the first season of the 80s twilight Zone. Ellison was a consultant on that show, and contributed many good scripts!
I have always had a soft spot for Ellison, but nothing can remove The Starlost from my memory, what a craptastic show that was!"http://www.youtube.com/v/UMAi6u4Ps5A&rel=1"
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#73
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

RickER:
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Scott, those are the double sided, duel layer discs that the Outer Limits are on. DVD-14s are also double sided, but single layer (on one side anyway) and dont seem to be as much a problem. And, the problem with DVD-18s is that they seem to delaminate, oxidize, or whatever, making portions of the disc unwatchable. Lots of Universal TV shows were put on DVD-18s. FOX loves to use DVD-14 now. Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea is on DVD-14, but i dont have trouble with those.
Okay, many thanks. I rarely purchase double-sided discs, but if I do, I will be on the watch for these. Much appreciated!

michael_ks:
Quote:
The thing I like most about "The Invisibles" is that it has the unmistakable stamp of the OL triumvirate that made S1 so special, namely Stefano-Oswald-Hall. I believe they collaborated on 8 or so episodes, "Don't Open 'till Doomsday" and "The Forms of Things Unknown" among them. I regard the latter as a masterpiece for avant garde expression.
When I watched Expanding Human last night, I knew during the first half minute or so that I was watching an episode directed by Gerd Oswald. There is just something so dark, so sinister (in the best sense of the word) when he is behind the camera. And I needn't elaborate too much on the wonderfully imaginative camera angles and (at times) extreme close-ups that Oswald uses in TOL.

Incidentally, I also admire Alan Crosland and Charles Haas' directing in TOL (but not nearly as much as Oswald). I think Oswald also did O.B.I.T., but I will have to check on that.

Edit: Okay, I just checked. It is Oswald for O.B.I.T.

Re: The Forms of Things Unknown--

Although not among those listed as fan favorites very often, I have to agree with you. It's a masterpiece, and it is very subtle at times. The poison, the car, the two women, the deception, and the uncertainty regarding who is attempting to kill whom--do you ever think you are watching something a la Hitchcock when viewing this episode?

michael_ks:
Quote:
I've always thought of the S2 episodes as being much more conventional, in large measure, no doubt due to Perry Mason alumnus Ben Brady helming the show. Still, I admit that there are some excellent episodes, and certainly a strong case can be made for "Demon with a Glass Hand" taking the honors as the best and most cerebral episode of the series. I'm also very fond of "Soldier", "Wolf 359", "The Inheritors" (Steve Ihnat was exceptional in that one), "The Premonition" and "Cold Hands, Warm Heart". The only ones that are very difficult for me to sit through are "The Probe", "The Brain of Colonel Barham" and "Counterweight".
Just a quick note on Inhat--I love his work here, in TOS, and in my all-time favorite episode of Mission: Impossible (as the mastermind and genius in The Mind of Stephan Miklos). His range was quite extensive, esp. when I think of this episode and contrast it with his 'Lord Garth' in the TOS episode Whom Gods Destroy.

michael_ks:
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I had the honor of meeting Harlan Ellison, Arlene Martel ("Consuelo Biros"), William Shatner and James Doohan in the 1970s. They were all very generous with their time and I have very fond memories of talking with them.
That's awesome. Harlan Ellison came to our university several years ago to speak. He's quite interesting to hear, and he's always challenging (whether one agrees with his premises or not).

Rick_ER:
Quote:
Course i am a big Perry Mason fan myself Michael. So that doesnt hurt either. If i recall, OL had its share of "courtroom" episodes as well? I have also met Shatner, Doohan, and Ellison. But i was a kid, of about 13, when i met Ellison, and i didnt really give a crap about the writers. Damn, how young and stupid was i, because i have also met Bradbury and Asimov, and i didnt give a damn!
Yes, those courtroom dramas (O.B.I.T. comes to mind) are a real treat, aren't they? The series is already quite dark, but it seems to become a darker shade of dark when directed by Oswald. BTW, Bradbury is one of my favorite sci-fi writers. I've got a copy of The Illustrated Man not ten feet from me.

Hollywoodaholic:
Quote:
(And, by the way, IMHO, the first season of Outer Limits with Stefano and Conrad Hall and Frontiere was pure gothic noir art, unequaled ever since. The second season under Brady ... not so much, but a few classics, including the two by Ellison).
Nicely said! That first line above is one of those that deserves at least a footnote in someone's book. I love the phrase, 'pure gothic noir art.'
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#74
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER
Re: Demon with A Glass Hand. I didnt see this until AFTER 1982, and Blade Runner. How shocked was i to see the Bradbury Building in this episode!

Speaking of this building, I seem to remember a music video, Cher, of all people, did back in the early eighties where she pranced through a rather cleaned up Bradbury Building while singing a version of Bob Seger's "Feel Like a Number."

Anyone else out there recall this one or am I imagining it?
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#75
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
Ron68:

I just watched Expanding Human last night. I counted at least three people in that episode that went on to TOS: James Doohan, Skip Homeier (he played Melikon in Patterns of Force and Dr. Sevrin in The Way to Eden), and Keith Andes (he played Akuta in The Apple). I've always liked looking for TOL and TOS connections when I watch either of these series.

I too liked Soldier. Ansara was very good in it. I thought the special effect for the ray gun was done very well, too--loved it when the patrol man's car was disintegrated. I also like Lloyd Nolan--he's another one of those staples from my television youth. And the deciphering of Quarlo's language was a nice touch.

Another of my favorites that I neglected to mention in a previous post is The Invisibles. The sound effects used when that alien is crawling are haunting. It's one of those episodes that I won't show to our younger children, even though I was introduced to TOL when I was five.
I'm not a big Star Trek fan but I did enjoy the OS, therefore I don't know the actors besides the main cast. I do love watching shows that I haven't seen in a long time and spotting guest stars that I know from other shows. I loved seeing Shatner, Nimoy, Doohan, Landau and Robert Duvall on TOL.

I love the effects used in movies and TV shows like this. I especially love the melting car from "Soldier".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywoodaholic
(And, by the way, IMHO, the first season of Outer Limits with Stefano and Conrad Hall and Frontiere was pure gothic noir art, unequaled ever since. The second season under Brady ... not so much, but a few classics, including the two by Ellison).
I did notice the tone and style of season 1 was different but I wasn't used to that. I just seem to like the episodes in season 2 more, maybe because they are more tradition in design. Can't wait to see the other Ellison episode. I have liked him ever since I first saw him on Sci-Fi Buzz (miss that show) and found his commentaries to be very interesting.
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#76
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

One of my fondest childhood memories was discovering that The Outer Limits was on television while I was channel surfing. Granted, channel surfing meant at that time no remote, and usually four channels (or five or six if one was fortunate enough to have UHF, which we were). Channels 38 and 56 were sometimes a real treat. I rarely got to see TOL at night, but later (in syndication) I was lucky enough to see it semi-regularly on Saturday afternoons.

There was one occasion when I was able to see it at night. I recall being with my father late in the evening (this was in 1963 or 1964) when he was visiting a good friend of his. They had some things to discuss, and I was left in his friend's living room, with the television tuned to ABC. I saw about a half hour of The Sixth Finger, and I was forever hooked on this awesome television show.

Speaking of that episode, I loved it when Gwyllum Griffiths (played by David McCallum), at the point where he has mutated to approximately the man of 20,000 years into the future, is heard and shown playing a few preludes and fugues of J. S. Bach. He mentions that not too much of humanity is lasting. He says (paraphrased) that so little lasts the test of time, and how even Bach's music is rather uncomplicated once the mechanical mastery of performing it has been achieved. (LOL--I suppose I might be able to say the same had I evolved to that point as well.) Griffiths' remarks remind me of something Gary Mitchell said in Where No Man Has Gone Before. It occurs right after his telekenetic(?) powers force water in a cup to be moved toward a faucet, and then the water to turn on automatically, with the cup shown floating in the air over to his hand as Kirk arrives in Sickbay. Mitchell says something about the writings of Spinoza being rather childish.

Interestingly, the first memory I can recall of TOL was seeing 'the bear'--in this case, Gwyllum Griffiths at about 1,000,000 years evolved. That made a lasting impression on me, as well as hearing the music of Bach (which I later learned was performed by Glenn Gould) in the episode. Little did I know at that time that one of my two all-time favorite composers, my favorite performer/interpreter of the keyboard music of J. S. Bach, and such a unique and impression-making television show all came together in one glorious package on that evening.

For the record, the Bach works that are heard in The Sixth Finger are listed here. The three works are from Das Wohltemperierte Klavier (Teil 1). I have listed the works here in the order that they are heard in the episode:

Prelude in C Minor (BWV 847).
Prelude in D Major (BWV 850).
Fugue in D Major (BWV 850).
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#77
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

I used to watch the OL on saturday afternoons when I was a kid. The only thing I could remember about the show was the opening title sequence and the creatures from the Zanti Misfits, I also remember enjoying the show, which is why I bought it . I finally got around to watching Demon with A Glass Hand, great episode. I really liked Robert Culp's performance and really liked the twists and turns in the story. This is my third favourite episode so far. I would have been farther along in the set but I've been busier than usual lately and I'm juggling it with Swamp Thing-the Series.
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#78
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

Ron68:
Quote:
I used to watch the OL on saturday afternoons when I was a kid. The only thing I could remember about the show was the opening title sequence and the creatures from the Zanti Misfits, I also remember enjoying the show, which is why I bought it . I finally got around to watching Demon with A Glass Hand, great episode. I really liked Robert Culp's performance and really liked the twists and turns in the story. This is my third favourite episode so far. I would have been farther along in the set but I've been busier than usual lately and I'm juggling it with Swamp Thing-the Series.
I agree with regard to Culp's performance. Have you been able to see the other episdoes of TOL that he's been in? The Architects of Fear and Corpus Earthling are both quite good. The former is downright chilling (esp. the Thetan--who doesn't appreciate Janos Prohaska's work in this show as well as in TOS?) and the latter is quite good as well (using a neat special effect when the rocks become animated), and stars not only Culp, but Salome Jens, whom many fans will know as the female changeling in DS9. The opening sequence to The Architects of Fear is among the most frightening (and in my estimation purely sci-fi) segments that I've ever seen on network television.

I too know what it's like to be busy with real-life--LOL. I just finished DS9 (last night), and have a couple of other series to get through before I start another one.
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#79
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

Those were great episodes, some of season 1's best. Also loved The Bellero Shield, The Mice, Production and Decay of Strange Particles, The Chameleon, The Invisibles, Nightmare and the Zanti Misfits. Looking back, there are more episodes from that season that I enjoyed than I thought.

Last night I watched Cry of Silence. It was ok but I couldn't help but think how painful it would have been to grab and get hit in the face with those tumbleweeds. I can remember the first time I saw one and grabbed it, unaware of how many sharp "thorns" they have, It was very painful lol. I love the FX and creature designs on this show, very well done That moving rock effect was really cool. I prefer these "old school" effects over CGI, I find it more awe inspiring at how the men and women could all these effects. They had to be very creative in being able to create such great effects on such low budgets.
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#80
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

Ron68,
Quote:
Last night I watched Cry of Silence. It was ok but I couldn't help but think how painful it would have been to grab and get hit in the face with those tumbleweeds. I can remember the first time I saw one and grabbed it, unaware of how many sharp "thorns" they have, It was very painful lol. I love the FX and creature designs on this show, very well done That moving rock effect was really cool. I prefer these "old school" effects over CGI, I find it more awe inspiring at how the men and women could all these effects. They had to be very creative in being able to create such great effects on such low budgets.

The last time I saw Cry of Silence, I recall thinking about something in that episode that caught my attention, but I can't recall what it is at this moment. It may have had to do with the gradual darkening that took place just before the tumbleweeds begin to converge. I will have to watch it again to trigger what I had in mind, but I know it was something that I was quite impressed with when I saw it last.

I am very much in agreement with preferring the "old school" effects over those of CGI--it's not even close in my opinion. I also greatly appreciate the make-up (Wah Chang was incredible) and the time and effort that was put into it back in those days. It could not have been that easy. They were very, very creative. The aliens in TOL are still more frightening to me than most I have seen in shows thirty and forty years later. Part of this may be attributed to the show being in b&w, but not all of it.
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#81
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

Quote:
Oh, damn, one more Ellison story. James Cameron was attached to direct a screenplay of mine early in my career for a Canadian production (I later backed out for 'artistic' reasons - don't ask - big big dummy). While working together, he showed me his first draft for The Terminator. I told him I thought it was very cool but, as a OL fanatic, wasn't this "Soldier" from the second season? He smiled and waved it off.

The rest, including Ellison's lawsuit and subsequent credit on all prints of The Terminator ... is history. But I did warn him, (and especially after witnessing the road rage incident) ... you don't mess with Harlan Ellison.

Oh my gosh... I finally have my answer after all these years as to whether or not Cameron was forewarned! And it turns out he was. Wayne, Harlan would be very pleased to know this, I'm sure.

Yes, Mr. Ellison fiercely guards his work and has threatened many a party with a lawsuit in the past. He can be most irascible and suffers fools not at all, but there is a playful, boyish side to him as well. As a child of short stature he was often mercilessly teased and wailed on alot and he compensated for this over the years by cutting people down with words. He has fired barbs at actors, producers and the like and his volatility and acerbic wit is legion. He makes for a very interesting character study as he so often rails against the very forms of media entertainment that have made him a great deal of money (television and the film industry). As I heard it once, Harlan was pitching his idea for the original Star Trek movie when a producer, liking what he heard suggested the inclusion of Mayan warriors. When told there were no Mayans in the time period in question, the producer insisted all the more, prompting Mr. Ellison to hurl himself down a boardroom table in a vain attempt to strangle the person! And needless to say, he would not go on to write the screenplay to the first or any Star Trek films.

I've often wondered what additional superlative teleplays in the field of science fiction we might have been witness to if Harlan Ellison had been given a freer rein. "City on the Edge of Forever", "Demon With a Glass Hand", "Paladin of the Lost Hour" and many others--they are all absolute standouts for drama.
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#82
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

michael_ks:
Quote:
I've often wondered what additional superlative teleplays in the field of science fiction we might have been witness to if Harlan Ellison had been given a freer rein. "City on the Edge of Forever", "Demon With a Glass Hand", "Paladin of the Lost Hour" and many others--they are all absolute standouts for drama.
Yes, these are standouts for certain. I read once, but cannot recall where, that Ellison was not pleased with the final product (at least with regard to The City on the Edge of Forever). I don't recall if he approved of the final version of Demon With a Glass Hand, however. I'll try to get a reference for this.
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#83
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

I bought both sets from Costco, and they were in the $30 price range when they first came out.
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#84
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

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Originally Posted by Ockeghem
Yes, these are standouts for certain. I read once, but cannot recall where, that Ellison was not pleased with the final product (at least with regard to The City on the Edge of Forever). I don't recall if he approved of the final version of Demon With a Glass Hand, however. I'll try to get a reference for this.
I saw an interview with Ellison, I think it was when the Sci-Fi Channel aired TOS with those video clips of the cast and crew, where he was saying that he didn't like how Roddenberry and another producer changed the ending to "City...". It's been quite a few years, but that's what I remember.

I watched "The Invisible Enemy" last night and was surprised at how much it was like the movie Tremors. Just change the setting from the desert to Mars and replace Kevin Bacon with Adam West. They (OL and Tremors) both had the creatures under the sand, people staying safe on solid rocks, someone running in one direction so the friend could get to safety and the luring the creature in one direction by throwing something in the opposite direction of the way he wanted to go. Even the way the creatures moved was similar, despite all this, I still loved it. I am enjoying season 2 a lot, glad I bought these sets.
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#85
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

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I saw an interview with Ellison, I think it was when the Sci-Fi Channel aired TOS with those video clips of the cast and crew, where he was saying that he didn't like how Roddenberry and another producer changed the ending to "City...". It's been quite a few years, but that's what I remember.

What I recall after having read Ellison's original teleplay is that a starship crew member by the name of Beckwith was dealing in drugs and he in fact, in drug induced delirium went through the portal and changed history (and not Dr. McCoy). Roddenberry objected to this because of his notion of everyone being above board who happened to graduate from Star Fleet Academy, something completely at odds with Ellison's philosophy of there always being "a couple rotten apples in the barrel".

Over the years, Ellison has felt maligned over Roddenberry's comments about how "COTEOF required a complete overhaul" to fit the story into the Star Trek universe and that he inaccurately and repeatedly cited how "Scotty was dealing in drugs". There was to have been a scene on the planet showing the remnants of a ravaged and forlorn city in which a crewmember, possibly Kirk reacts to by stating "...there it stands, like a city on the edge of forever...". Since no such scene took place, Ellison has always thought the title of the episode to be rather incongruous.

If I recall from David Schow's "Outer Limits" companion, Ellison was considerably more satisfied with the results for "Demon With a Glass Hand" and lauds the performance Robert Culp gave as Trent. I think his biggest problem has always been with the make-up technique used for the Kyben aliens. Certainly a more satisfying experience than the one he had around the same year with "The Price of Doom" for "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea", which, to this day he refuses to even comment on. Incidentally the pen name used in this episode (Cordwainer Bird) is an inside joke as it his way of 'flipping the bird'(!)
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#86
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

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Originally Posted by Ron68
I saw an interview with Ellison, I think it was when the Sci-Fi Channel aired TOS with those video clips of the cast and crew, where he was saying that he didn't like how Roddenberry and another producer changed the ending to "City...". It's been quite a few years, but that's what I remember.

I watched "The Invisible Enemy" last night and was surprised at how much it was like the movie Tremors. Just change the setting from the desert to Mars and replace Kevin Bacon with Adam West. They (OL and Tremors) both had the creatures under the sand, people staying safe on solid rocks, someone running in one direction so the friend could get to safety and the luring the creature in one direction by throwing something in the opposite direction of the way he wanted to go. Even the way the creatures moved was similar, despite all this, I still loved it. I am enjoying season 2 a lot, glad I bought these sets.
Yes, that may be where I heard the Ellison information as well. I do recall something about the ending being discussed.

Do you happen to know if that 'monster' in The Invisible Enemy turns up later in another show (either in TOL or something else)? I do know that the 'monster' in Fun and Games resurfaces in TOS, and Christopher Pike tries to choke it. Here are pics of both aliens. Sorry that the second one is quite small.





I like the way they filmed the end of The Invisible Enemy, giving the impression that the sand lake was filled with these monsters. We saw about five or six of them, but never all at once. (I'm not even sure we saw more than one at a time.)

Incidentally, I watched Cry of Silence last night. I now believe my 'gradual darkening' remark refers to The Special One, at a point where the dialogue has ceased, and some of the series' most haunting music is the only thing we hear for a prolonged amount of time. I think it's when the father is sitting in his chair, waiting for Mr. Zeno to return (more on that episode at a later time). In Cry of Silence, I had forgotten that the married couple (played by Eddie Albert and June Havoc) run over the tumbleweed in the first five or so minutes of the episode. No wonder those tumbleweeds were miffed.
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#87
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

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Incidentally, I watched Cry of Silence last night. I now believe my 'gradual darkening' remark refers to The Special One, at a point where the dialogue has ceased, and some of the series' most haunting music is the only thing we hear for a prolonged amount of time. I think it's when the father is sitting in his chair, waiting for Mr. Zeno to return (more on that episode at a later time).

I've often regarded that as the best scene from "The Special One". Episode directed by none other than Gerd Oswald.
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#88
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

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Originally Posted by michael_ks
I've often regarded that has the best scene from "The Special One". Episode directed by none other than Gerd Oswald.
I'm pleased you know which scene I'm referring to in that one. It's eerie, haunting, and downright ... chilling. (Incidentally, the same music is used in Tourist Attraction during the thawing of the creature; however effective, IMO it's not quite as chilling there as it is in The Special One.) In The Special One, I believe the lights are darkened very gradually (but also quite intensely as far as degree--meaning that it gets very dark) as we move from the front door, through the room, up the stairs, etc. And again, the music is astonishing at that point. I have watched the scene without the sound track (just because I do these kinds of things ) and it's not nearly as effective.

BTW, many years ago (this would have been when I was in elementary school), I recall having TOL cards, and one of them featured a picture of Mr. Zeno after he has been dematerialized (or has begun his transport).

michael_ks:
Quote:
What I recall after having read Ellison's original teleplay is that a starship crew member by the name of Beckwith was dealing in drugs and he in fact, in drug induced delirium went through the portal and changed history (and not Dr. McCoy). Roddenberry objected to this because of his notion of everyone being above board who happened to graduate from Star Fleet Academy, something completely at odds with Ellison's philosophy of there always being "a couple rotten apples in the barrel".

Over the years, Ellison has felt maligned over Roddenberry's comments about how "COTEOF required a complete overhaul" to fit the story into the Star Trek universe and that he inaccurately and repeatedly cited how "Scotty was dealing in drugs". There was to have been a scene on the planet showing the remnants of a ravaged and forlorn city in which a crewmember, possibly Kirk reacts to by stating "...there it stands, like a city on the edge of forever...". Since no such scene took place, Ellison has always thought the title of the episode to be rather incongruous.

If I recall from David Schow's "Outer Limits" companion, Ellison was considerably more satisfied with the results for "Demon With a Glass Hand" and lauds the performance Robert Culp gave as Trent. I think his biggest problem has always been with the make-up technique used for the Kyben aliens. Certainly a more satisfying experience than the one he had around the same year with "The Price of Doom" for "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea", which, to this day he refuses to even comment on. Incidentally the pen name used in this episode (Cordwainer Bird) is an inside joke as it his way of 'flipping the bird'(!)
Thanks for the wonderfully detailed information. I own the Schow book--it's a gem, isn't it? It's packed with interesting information, and the illustrations are numerous. It also portrays the show honestly, with all of its triumphs and warts, if you will.

When I read Ellison's remarks about "a couple rotten apples in the barrel" and the misinformation from Roddenberry's comments regarding Scotty and dealing in drugs, I could not help but think of DS9 in some respects. Maybe it's because they could have done something like that in that series. Sure, we've evolved to some point where many things are much better, but there will always be problems (rotten apples, if you will). I'm thinking of Sisko's 'paradise' remark in Homefront (or perhaps it's Paradise Lost).
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#89
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

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I own the Schow book--it's a gem, isn't it? It's packed with interesting information, and the illustrations are numerous. It also portrays the show honestly, with all of its triumphs and warts, if you will.

It certainly is, Scott. The only companion book in my collection of 15 or so that I've read cover to cover twice. Mr. Schow is an excellent writer and his knowledge and love for OL really shines through. I recall purchasing the more cheaply made 'feather light' first edition and thinking "I can't believe this book got written!" I find myself agreeing with the author's assessment on just about every episode though I feel he's a bit too critical on "Production and Decay of Strange Particles" and "It Crawled Out of the Woodwork" but then, in the former at least, I'm a sucker for Leslie Stevens' approach to writing science fiction simply because I like 'technical jargon' like that witnessed in another of his episodes ("The Borderland"). I definitely though, see eye to eye with David Schow on "Keeper of the Purple Twilight" and can understand why it's a 'guilty pleasure' for him. It's wonderful with its 'pulp magazine' style flourishes.
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#90
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Re: Outer Limits (Original Series) - Why Rereleased?

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Originally Posted by michael_ks
It certainly is, Scott. The only companion book in my collection of 15 or so that I've read cover to cover twice. Mr. Schow is an excellent writer and his knowledge and love for OL really shines through. I recall purchasing the more cheaply made 'feather light' first edition and thinking "I can't believe this book got written!" I find myself agreeing with the author's assessment on just about every episode though I feel he's a bit too critical on "Production and Decay of Strange Particles" and "It Crawled Out of the Woodwork" but then, in the former at least, I'm a sucker for Leslie Stevens' approach to writing science fiction simply because I like 'technical jargon' like that witnessed in another of his episodes ("The Borderland"). I definitely though, see eye to eye with David Schow on "Keeper of the Purple Twilight" and can understand why it's a 'guilty pleasure' for him. It's wonderful with its 'pulp magazine' style flourishes.
You know, I've never quite understood the criticism that I've read leveled against Keeper of the Purple Twilight. But then again, I am not a screenwriter or a director, and I really have little knowledge of cinematography. My field of specialty is music, and there are times when the score can for me save what to some might be an otherwise abysmal film. I find myself straying too far from my field of expertise when I try to write too intelligently about other aspects of television and film.

For me, Keeper of the Purple Twilight (this is one of Charles Haas' efforts, yes?) is also a guilty pleasure. This episode does have the gorgeous variation of Lubin's closing credits theme that I alluded to previously (the G minor theme, also containing the melodically descending--and in my estimation unstable--augmented III triad). The instability of the sonority creates much tension in the episode, albeit in a very subtle manner. I also love the make-up in the one, and I've loved Warren Stevens in just about everything he does. I read (perhaps in the Schow book?) two things that I recall about that episode rather vividly: that some members of the Los Angeles Lakers basketball team were in the episode as soldiers (those that accompanied and eventually tried to shoot Ikar--they were very tall!), and that the scene whereby Stevens is injured (he has glass chips sticking out of his arm which Ikar eventually heals) was quite graphic for 1964. In retrospect, I tend to agree.



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