Maggie update

Re: Maggie update

Gasdoc: The only time I have given the Hsu subs any air time was when I saw them in a computer store a few years ago. It was priced somewhere around $299, so it may have even been the one you're considering...not really sure. What I will tell you about the Pb-10, though, is that part of the reason why it's such a great value is because of its simplicity. I think you're on the right track and should just continue along the lines of what Charles said. Just use the sub-out jack on the receiver to the subwoofer and use the crossover settings in the Pioneer. You could certainly do it the way you described too, though....just be sure to send the Hsu a full range signal so you're bypassing the receiver's crossover point.

Just know that Maggies are notoriously difficult to blend with a subwoofer, so you may need to try a couple options before you find something that works. In my opinion, the PB-10 does everything right, including music. I have a few jazz CDs that are very well recorded, and the bass instrumentals sounded beautiful to my ears!

Charles: I think that since he was using the analog output of his DVD player directly to the amp, the DVD player was limiting at least some of the bass since it thought he had a subwoofer hooked in.

Re: Maggie update

Z, that's definitely possible. I want to go back to crossing over my Maggies when I get some more time and see if I can get it to sound good but I'm not sure I am confident in the high-pass quality of my outboard crossover so right now I'm feeding the MMGs a full range signal directly.

Re: Maggie update

System update....I just made a deal on (3) 16" ASC Super Tube Traps. That should be all I need to finish out my room. These babies go down to 40hz. I already have(5) 11" full rounds and (2) 11" half rounds. And along with my Michael Green Room Tunes and Sonex panels, I should have all the tools I need to finish this room up. My system already sounds great, just smoothing out a few things.

BTW, I just got a pair of Nordost Red Dawn IC's today....love them. I will be selling (2) pair of Audioquest Jaguar DBS IC's soon. I hope you are all having as much fun as I am with your system!!

Re: Maggie update

Yep, that's how I ran mine at first, too. I wanted the PB-10 mainly for movies, but I was surprised at how much I loved it with music. If I had been using my system for only music, I probably would have jumped into the 12s or 1.6s and picked up some Mye stands, then run them full range.

Re: Maggie update

P how did you learn about those treatments? Like how do you know where to put them and all that? Room treatments is one area of this hobby I know nothing about, lol. I've been paying attention to the Eighth Nerve stuff (www.eighthnerve.com) and will probably give them a go once I move into my new place next year.

Re: Maggie update

The local shop where I buy some of my gear has room treatments in all of their demo rooms. They even loaned me some tube traps over a weekend so that I could play with them in my system. I have had my Sonex foam panels for years, and they work well in certain conditions. And of course last year, I met Michael Green out in Vegas and listened to his 3 systems that had his acoustic products in them.

It's a matter of trial and error....you have to train your ears to be able to pick up on certain parts of what you are hearing. Many people say that things like cables don't make a difference...I strongly disagree!! And a well treated room makes all the difference in the world IMHO!!

Over at AA, the acoustic forum is full of info....check it out!! Take care Z!!

Re: Maggie update

Thanks, P I'm really glad that you always post about the updates you make to your system....I just wish I was a little closer so I could hear it!!

Re: Maggie update

Okay Friends,

I will not bore you with details as we all have very limited time to tweak our own systems!!

I went into the DVD player setup and "disabled the sub" and ran everything LARGE speakers. I hooked up the DVD player directly to the AMP using analog outputs (the preouts on my receiver force me to listen to the Bose hooked up to receiver).

A few pages ago somebody said his maggies disappeared. I swear mine did the same thing today. All I got again was magic. Kind of like the first time I heard my speakers. But the magic is bigger today. Enough said.

Thanks again for your encouragement and advice to keep my efforts up. I had faith that what you all were saying would pan out. It has.

Stands and subwoofer next. Maybe.

Gasdoc Imu

Re: Maggie update

I have learned a great deal about audio in the last several years. The MUG has been a great place to learn how to tweak maggies. I now have a system that would rival systems costing 2 or 3 times as much. And some of it is because I have tweaked my system: bypassed both fuses and the tweeter attenuator, Mye stands filled with sand, cables, room acoustics, and on and on.

It's funny, I loaned a friend some good cables to try in his system...he couldn't tell any difference. I think it was a combination of him not having the "golden ear" that I have and his system not being as resolving as mine. This is what makes this hobby so much fun. And if you do your homework and research, you can really make your system reveal all that it can for your enjoyment!!

Re: Maggie update

Gasdoc, make sure you visit the MUG to learn even more "tweaking" ideas!!
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/

Re: Maggie update

Hi guys,
Hope all is well with all of you. I have done much more reading and spoke with Wendell at Magnepan about the different models. I mentioned the Martin Logan magic I had heard previously, and his thoughts were a combination of using dipole speakers and high resolution. I talked to him about the cc3 and MMG, compared to the 1.6 using a phantom center and he stated the 1.6 was superior because of the resolution improvements. He added that if it was necessary to buy the MMG's for the cost savings to purchase the cc3, don't. Buy the 1.6 instead. He stated the 1.6 with the mc1 as surrounds is very popular.
I started looking into hybrids using a cone driver for the low end and read M/Ls cross at about 270hz. I am not sure if all models use the exact same frequency but it is well out of the low midbass range. One explanation I came across stated the critical midbass was about 70 to 175hz or there about. Now that would kind of circumvent the idea of "planar bass". I had previously read that the low E on a bass guitar was 39hz but most recently read that bass players often tuned this to 42hz. So to get that "planar bass", my in room must have an F3 of around 36-38hz. So four 3.6r's should do the trick! Ok I can't really do that, but four 1.6's on the used market would be nice. Maybe not practical though. I also found someones opinion stating that using the cc3 seemed to hurt coherency a little. Maybe,maybe not.
Has anyone heard any response on using the Exodus/Hypex amp with the Magnepan? Also, how about current? I know cone type drivers like high current amplifiers but haven't found anything about this relating to maggies. The Parasound 2205 puts out 60 amps per channel and the Citation 7.1 puts out a whopping 130 amps per channel when bridged.
I can hardly wait to get setup again. Everything went bye-bye to accommodate selling the house. But it does mean when I move, 'all new toys'!
andy

Re: Maggie update

So,

Here I was,very happy with my Maggie HT,and I had to go read a thread over at the MUG site.
Note to self:dont read another Maggie tweak thread.(ya thats gonna work)

I followed the tweeters in or out thread until it peaked my interest.I've always run my Maggies ,tweeters in,7 feet apart and with plenty of toe in.

So now,I'm trying tweeters out,no toe in and recalibrated the system.What have I noticed so far? Less treble,stronger bass and midrange response,and a much wider soundfield.
The midrange seems some what muddy,which may be due to the treble being softer in strength.
The change has only been in effect 2 days,so I'm going to give it some time.I do like the wider sound stage.

Gah,next time I'm listening to the wife and leaving well enough alone

Re: Maggie update

Hello Friends,

The MUG site is okay: not well laid out and much of what is discussed is way above me, for the most part.

Loving my MMGs. The music has "thickened" in the last few days. Still haven't done the DIY stands yet, but soon.

Take Care,
Gasdoc Imu

Re: Maggie update

M: I'm sure that it's a much bigger difference since you have the 3.6s, but I played around with the orientation of my MMGs, too....I agree with you, I liked tweets out

Gasdoc: How many hours you think you have on them so far?

Re: Maggie update

I really feel you need 100+ hours on them to loosen them up. I ran mine for the first three days 24 hours with FM radio whenever I wasn't actually listening to them.

Re: Maggie update

Both my 1.6's and 3.6's have sounded best with the tweeters out. And that was after extensive repositioning using them casters on my Mye stands!!

Re: Maggie update

Z: I probably have about 30-40 hrs on my MMGs.

It used to be I would only listen to music in my car and only go in the basement for HT. Now, I spend much of my free time listening to old music and getting the feelings back. I also have started teaching the little ones to play pool while listening. As previously stated, you can still enjoy the music even if not in the sweet spot.

I can't wait till these MMGs really 'break in' (100hrs per Charles). I think I may take the tweeeters "out" as well. Magnepan sent these fuses with the MMGs. I am happy with the way things sound, but what would different fuses do?? Do they reduce the brightness artificially therefore increasing perceived bass? The MUG is way above me on this topic. But I can change a light bulb (the wife has to make some tea first)!!

Have a nice weekend. Go Michigan.
Gasdoc

Re: Maggie update

Well guys,

After 3 days listening to music and HT with the tweeters out,I've come to a conclusion.
The loss of crystal clear highs,and muddied midrange was not worth the wider sound stage.
Imaging also seemed to suffer,although to a lesser degree then the treble.

So,I'm back to tweeters IN,and that beautiful Maggie magic that made me for go all other speakers

Re: Maggie update

I have 1.6's, MC1 surrounds and a 4 channel Exodus amp.

First off, the Exodus is really a great match for the maggies. Mine is doing surround duty as I have an Odyssey stratos running the fronts (1.6's). But I compared them when I put it into the sytem, and if I had bought the 400 watt Exodus, I would probably beusing that for the fronts, but the Stratos is 260W into 4 ohms, and I need it for the 1.6's. The Exodus I have is 180W x 4. Kevin, the guys making the Exodus, says he has gotten quite positive feed feedback from the maggie owners he has sold amps to.

On the 1.6 vs. MMG +CC3 quesion, that's tougher. I spoke to Wendell when I was about to buy my 1.6's as I was trying to decide between keeping my old MMGs as surrounds and going ith the MC1's. He strongly advised tha the MC1's were better speakers for this purpose. Well, I sold my MMGs and bought the MC1's, and now find that I need to move the MC1's to the rear surounds and buy another pair of MMGs. THe MC1's use some better quality XO components, but they are just not big enough to keep up with the 1.6's when I am playing multichannel music a louder levels.

My point in all that is Wendell's advice, while obviously important, will not necessarily be correct for every situation. I have been running a phantom center for almost 5 years now, and it is fine for 1 or 2 people, but it messes up the sound field if you have 3 or more people across the row.

As for bass response, there is a thread in the DIY forum over at HTGuide by ThomasW where he looks at several ways of building a full range unit out of an MMG and a dipole H frame woofer. Definitely worth looking at. It's off the front page now but a search will turn it up.

BB

Re: Maggie update

Hello Friends,

I guess the question is how well do the MMGs as fronts and a phantom center mode work. Just thinking.... I have read your previous posts, but would appreciate a little more discussion on this.

Gasdoc

Re: Maggie update

OSU RULES.....I knew there was something not right with you gasdoc!! lol

Re: Maggie update

Thanks for the input Brandon.
I had read of the installation of the Exodus into your system but can't find any other other user reports. I do know that 'synergy' is often used when discussing amps for maggies and I have been searching for that type of reference throughout multiple forums.
I have found multiple x-over plans for the MMG using better components and wonder about the comparison to the mc1. It does have a larger panel to work with. I have been to the HTguide and looked at Thomas W designs and his use of the woofer for the MMG. I have been comtemplating trying the hybrid design (such as the M/L) with a quality mid woofer. Hey it works for them. There are two highly recommended, one is a 10" and the other an 8". Thomas also uses a behringer active EQ which you can get a 2 or 3 way that would do away with the passive eq system. It also can use a summed mono output which makes using a single sub per pair of MMG's possible x-overed wherever you want. It lists it as a 24db per octave slope linkwitz riley. It also incorporates phase and timing adjustments. When I went and looked for the EQ I came across a Behringer reference amp, the a500 with 230 watts per channel at 4 ohms, with passive cooling, for $179. I might have to try that one.
One thing that keeps me interested in the MMG's is the consensus they are much more forgiving on placement and upstream electronics. Oh yeah, and price. I think possibly using the hybrid idea, some of the dynamics could be retained but I wouldn't want to lose the 'magic'. As I read the M/L's x-over at 270hz or so and they do great as hybrids. I am starting to feel experimentation coming on that will drive the wife crazy, because i can never get anything and just leave it alone! I just don't have any local friends that can tell the difference between Watt Puppies and Bose.
Good Day!
andy

Re: Maggie update

Okay, I don't own any Maggies but I just had to say "wow, this thread is almost 50 pages long!" Must be some darn good speakers.

Re: Maggie update

Z: Since you recommended to me Diana Krall you are forgiven for the last comment!! (UM may get a second shot as it is still ranked #2).

I moved the speakers close to my listening chair. They look ridiculous and I had to listen in the dark. The singers were in the room. I could hear the bass guitar dude plucking the strings on Diana Krall Love Scenes. Trully awesome. By the way I also moved the tweeters out. To me it sounds even better this way in my room.

Gasdoc
Z: thanks for recommending Diana Krall. I would never have discovered this musician. You don't even know me and you have given me a gift. Thanks. To all others on this forum--Thank You ALL, too!!

Re: Maggie update

gasdoc.....This is Alan, or you can call me P. I am the big Buckeye fan here!! We would be more than happy to beat Michigan again for the national title!!

BTW, sounds like you are really enjoying your new maggies, have fun!!

Linda, yes, maggies are great speakers. Once you go maggie, you never go back to box speakers!!

Re: Maggie update

Yeah, like P said, he's the one who mentioned the Michigan/Ohio state thing! Not my fault!!!

Diana Krall is great....glad you are enjoying her stuff

If you guys want to hear a really great new artist, check out Amos Lee. I was watching a chick flick last year called "Just Like Heaven" when I heard a song playing toward the end. I looked in the credits at the end and saw his name,so I picked up his CD. He recently put out his second CD and both are just awesome. I saw him live here in Atlanta back in October....what a show! He used to play with Norah Jones and his music has some similarity to hers, but he's also got a style all his own. I don't know if any of you guys ever download music online, but if you do, check out one or more of the following tunes and see if you like him: 1) The Wind 2) Colors 3) Keep it Loose, Keep it Tight 4) Careless 5) Bottom of the Barrel 6) Love of a Woman Those are some of my favorite tracks...

Re: Maggie update

As long as we're talking about good maggie music, I played Bob Marley's greatest Hits the last two nights (I think the album is actually called Legend, or at least, that's what gracenote calls it when I rip it to my media server). The vocals and percussion really pop as does the rest of the instrumentation, but the percussion will really make the maggies shine and of course the music is just great.

Re: Maggie update

Here is some great Christmas music from a group I just saw in concert in Dayton last Sunday. I saw them last year as well!!

Trans-Siberian Orchestra

This rock/orchestra group sounds fantastic on my maggies....I'm mean really, really fantastic!!

http://www.trans-siberian.com/ontour/index.php

If you get a chance to see them, you will be treated to the best light, laser, pyrotechnics of any group I have ever seen!! And I've been to well over 70 concerts!!

Re: Maggie update

Trans-Siberian Orchestra RULES. I love the two CDs I have (I think they have a third now). The combination of nice soft, original Christmasy music with some traditional Christmas music played in a non-traditional way is pretty great.

Re: Maggie update

http://www.snopes.com/photos/arts/xmaslights.asp

I live about 4 miles fom this house. They shut him down before we could get over to see it. Check out the lights and the TSO music!! Click on the second here in the (viewable here and here)!!