First, on the other Artest thing...so what. Talk about a nothing incident. Here's why - did he bad mouth his coach, make some stand against the punishment, anything at all? No. Whatever he said to earn 2 PAID games off (not suspension) he took it very matter of factly. Carlisle did too. Point made, point taken, move on.
Teenagers say and think some pretty goofy things, enough to get grounded, etc, but you don't kick them out of the house for that. If they accept their punishment, show regret over the incident, at least as a misunderstanding that perhaps they didn't express correctly, then they are still in line with the family and generally speaking "good kids".
Ron doesn't demand more money, he didn't even demand time off, at least publically. If it was truly offensive I don't doubt that Carlisle would have brought the wood down on him. Rick takes things in stride and keeps them in perspective, and his reaction says this was a minor incident at worst.
Artest went from a constantly in trouble player 2 years ago to a guy with almost no problems last year. Going into this incident he had been the one starter who had really been bringing it without sitting down due to minor injuries (he had played through some small stuff because so many others were hurt). That's NOT a troublemaker. He may be confused on some things, he certainly was goofy in the interviews after the fact, but he said his coach was in charge and that he completely respected him REPEATEDLY. End of story.
Why trade an all-star, gutsy team guy who is so strong on both ends of the court for that? Save it for when he chokes his coach or demands money, etc. Sorry Michael, but if that's tradeable behavior then more than half the NBA needs to be moved.
Quote:
| This is almost comical... |
I wish more people would realize that this is probably the main point of the whole thing. It's simply funny and silly.
BTW, if "detremental to team integrity" is so clear, why doesn't someone explain what it means to me? Did he get the team involved in a points shaving scandal?
Its as big a non-story as the NBA coming down on Carter for listening to his IPod because it doesn't fit the "dress code". Talk about lame. Instead he has to warm up to whatever same old, some old rap song blaring over the loudspeakers in order to conform in a league full of afros, tattoos, and knee-high socks. Freaking retarded.
Now the fight. A Pacer fan perspective, though tempered I think.
1) Ron gave Ben a shove in the back that was more message than just hard play. It was the old "don't come in here chump, even late in the game" thing that teams like BOTH DETROIT and INDY do. They let the other team know that nothings easy. If you are a Piston fan and don't think a Piston HAS DONE the same thing, then you are in denial.
2) To such a foul a guy SHOULD STAND UP, step to the guy and IN WORDS let him know you don't play that and he'll get the same at some point. Frankly, I feel certain that Artest knew that anyway, but I had no problem with Ben going back over to him.
3) Ben blew up. He shouldn't have put his hands in Ron's face, and if the whole thing ended after that he would probably be getting a suspension for a couple of games. However, Ben isn't the first guy to get fired up over something like that, it's just part of the game, like a batter charging after getting hit with a pitch.
THIS IS WHERE IT SHOULD HAVE ENDED. Ron never reacted AT ALL, in fact he laid down on the scorers table even after Ben then threw his towel at him, jumped, yelled, and continued to rant out of control. That's the right thing to do. Ben was worked up and was getting kicked out. Everyone else needed to calm down, and except for Stephen Jackson and maybe a Piston that he was fighting with (hard to tell who he was pissed at, maybe Hunter) that's exactly what they were doing.
4) A dude threw a full beer and cup (I heard bottle but it looked like a cup to me) on Ron FIVE MINUTES LATER. I mean where is the freaking security by this point. When it first started, sure, but after five minutes it would seem like they would have a pretty good idea that tempers were high and they needed to be over there RIGHT BY THE PLAYERS AT LEAST. They weren't, as the tape shows.
The dude that threw the beer - you can see him and his 3 buddies CHEERING FOR A FIGHT as soon as Ben pushes Ron and the players huddle up pushing and shoving. One guy is maniacally pounding his fist into his hand in that "yeah, punch him, kill him" fanatical manner. This is all very clear from a baseline camera looking at Ron and Ben and then the scrum.
So one of those jerks, not satisfied that Artest isn't getting punched and is instead doing THE VERY LEAST OF ANYONE to be involved in the fight, decides to take it in their own hands to dole out the punishment.
These are 4th or 5th row seats. Someone should never be allowed to own those season tickets again, period.
5) Ron shouldn't have gone after the guy, but in his defense he was doing nothing AND in a defenseless position laying down. I wonder if anyone, anywhere would take it much better than Ron did. The fact that he went after THE GUY who threw the beer and not anyone else makes me not feel that bad at all that he did it. In fact the only reason he shouldn't have gone in is because in these situations it doesn't matter if you are right because he has a rep and every candy-ass wimp fan trying to fight him will now sue him instead.
6) Jackson was too fired up and needed to be kicked out along with Ben. He was the one Pacer who was not handling it well.
7) Both the Pacers and Pistons players did a great job of going in and trying to get Ron and Stephen out of there. I commend the Pistons players for their attitude. I respect why they were fired up, as I said, it happens.
8) I hope Pistons fans sitting near some of the troublemakers report them. I can assure you that if someone did that near me I'd pull out my freaking camera and take their picture to help report them, let alone tell on them.
I sit down low and hear some pretty lame crap all the time, and not just in Indy. You get these fired up drunks who don't even understand the game and react just like those 4 jerks were. IMO, trash talking is only good if its about someone's game and is accurate. Things like "nice hair" to Ben Wallace is pretty weak, and things like "f*** you you mother f****** punk" aren't even trash talk and shouldn't be TOLERATED by fans, officials or security.
9) I don't know what passes for security at Auburn Hills, but when fans RUN ONTO THE COURT WITH THEIR FISTS UP TRYING TO PUNCH PLAYERS more than 10 minutes into an incident, someone screwed up. I mean, who watching didn't see trouble breweing before it got that bad? And even worse, despite the fan brawl, security couldn't even keep fans from dumping more beer, bottles, coins, etc on EVERY PACER as they left the building. Not just Ron and Jackson, but a guy like O'Neal who did nothing. It's one freaking exit. 4 cops could stand in the stands there and shut that down with the threat of arrest.
I understand if it happens so quickly, but by the time they had the players leaving the court I think people all the way over in Chicago had heard that something was up. Hell, if it was baseball they could have brought the tarp out and rolled it back up in the time this thing went on.
10) I saw 2 different Pistons fans PUNCH PACER PLAYERS IN THE HEAD FROM BEHIND. Think about that. This was Tinsley and Fred Jones trying to pull their own players away, not even dealing with the fans in question and the guys came up from behind them and just started swinging. That is not acceptable behavior, period. Those 2 dudes and at least the one beer thrower will all be getting a call from the police, ala the NFL snowball game a few years ago. They deserve it.
I hope the players association and the NBA reem the shit out of those fans that really stepped over the line. My wife had a more emotional Pacer fan reaction - they should take away their team. I say that so DET fans know that if you think I sound defensive, you have no idea where the other side of the fence is on this.
There will be plenty of Indy people screaming bloody murder. I do not agree with that. This was some security issues and unfortunately more than just 1 or 2 bad apples, but bad apples none-the-less. Ben and Ron aren't to blame because plenty of crowds have seen fights far worse than this breakout without joining in themselves.
Now, there was one very funny moment in all of this. The dude that started it all after he throws his beer. You could tell he felt safe from repercussions and was even still sort of taunting Ron after he came in the stands with a "yeah, that's right" thing going, pointing and yelling. Then suddenly big old Ron got up on him and his face dropped into shock and fear and he dropped to the floor like the little punk he really was, and then took a couple of good shots before his buddies (same other jerks BTW) started holding Ron down.
But that moment when a guy, typical of our "I'm anonymous so I can act like an asshole" modern world, suddenly realized the spotlight was coming down hard on him was priceless.
I sincerely mean this, even if it were Ben coming into the stands at Conseco, I support this to some degree. It's nice to see assholes get a little bit of what's coming to them.
I'm sure plenty of innocent people got hurt in the middle of it and that's a big reason why Ron should have tried to continue to remain calm, that's why players shouldn't do it. But I wish more of these "fans" would get hauled off because I'm sick of them, including here in Indy.
All of this ruined a very impressive game by Indy, despite not having Reggie, Foster, Bender, Johnson, and Pollard, in DET and with Detroit all back together and in uniform.
And it also ruined Artest's terrific effort to not take the incident anywhere. Seriously, have you ever seen a player get shoved in the face like that and just stand there, then just walk away, and then just lay down and remain there?
To me that is good for any player, let alone a guy like Artest who just 2 years ago probably would have been jumping around like Jackson looking for a fight.
My guess from the league is 2 games for Wallace, 5 for Ron for going into the stands, 7 for Jackson for instigating on the court and also going into the stands just as aggressively as Ron.
I also expect 5-10 arrests to be made of various fans. And if lawsuits break out, I wouldn't be surprised if Auburn Hills themselves end up having to pay some of them for failing to protect the innocent fans and players. After all, if a fan sues because Ron knocked him down trying to get at another fan, won't Jermaine be suing for being attacked by endless flying objects of all sorts?
It's funny because it's true. 
