NBA Basketball 2004-2005 thread

Whoa, the lowly Hawks host the Mavs and come away with a win, much to Mark Cuban's displeasure (the TV coverage kept showing him as his team was losing in the 4th quarter).

Agreed, Chris.



Dude, the Eagles play football.

Yeah, fans of the Team That Shall Not Be Named can make that argument if they want to, but it grows weaker (as does the team) with every passing year. They lead the Lakers in championships, 16-14, but in every other way the comparisons are hollow. The Lakers have played in damn near half of every NBA Finals ever played. That is a truly incredible stat and yet another reason I'm content to have my team take their lumps for the time being. When I see the disbelieving joy in the eyes of Red Sox fans after generations of losing, I know I can tough out the agony of the next several years' defeats.

I also won't name the team; but had they sought good ownership.. Bird tried to buy them a few years ago, or done something different with the team.. they had a great case all through my youth.. maybe one of the greatest teams of all time in 1986. But their management in the last 14 years -sucks-. Not quite Chicago -suck- as of current, but -suck-..

BTW, I'll say this: Lebron James may bring me back to watching more NBA. He isn't all show, but he's a throwback player; reminds me of the super teams of the 80s when your big star players knew how to dish the ball and create plays.. he sees the court exceptionally well and manages to play an up and down game that is fun to watch.

The NBA began to look "ugly" in the last few years; with so much banging going on in the post without calls that it just made it harder to watch; but the way he plays the game, the quick transition, etc.. it's entertaining.

(I'm not a Cavs fan, but can respect a player when I see him)

Chris, I agree that there's some ugly stuff going on these days in the paint, but did you see the Phoenix/Seattle game last Friday? Now that was an awesome throwback-type game. All the media hype now is about Detroit/Indiana and Lakers/Miami, and almost none of them have talked about that extraordinary game between the two teams with the league's best records. Granted, it was a Friday night West Coast game, where the only East Coast people staying up to watch it were freaks like me, and the other games I mentioned will be on national TV on Christmas, but still, could there be a little bit of perspective from the people who cover the game? I'm not talking so much about the NBA-specific journalists, most of whom really do know what's going on, but the big-name all-sports people who should know better.

Sacramento, of course, has played a similar style for several seasons now. The NBA these days isn't all like vintage '80s Lakers/Celtics (though it wasn't all like that back then, either), but nor is it all like the 10 million straight seasons of Knicks/Heat slugfests in the playoffs. Lebron is certainly a special, once-in-a-generation package of style and ability, but there's more good stuff out there besides just him.

I think the thing about 80s ball that gets people is they look at the high scores and say "well, they didn't play defense" I would totally disagree; the defense in the 80s was a press/fast paced defense that ran the court.. almost like what the Mavericks tried, except the mavericks didn't have the supporting cast for it..

If you were watching Boston, you'd watch Ainge get a steal and throw out to McHale and Bird who would run the court for easy points; Parish on a rebound to Dennis Johnson. Watching LA? Kareem with a rebound, outlet to Magic, outlet to Worthy.. they played defense in the eighties that relied on taking advantage of mistakes.. now, teams get a rebound and fastbreak rarely, they tend to lay back to setup their offense.. which isnt' bad either, it's a different style, but the big reason why it happens so much is all the banging in the paint that I can't think of any other gneeration where people would get away with that.

Seriously.. I remember watching Dr. J get rebounds and outlet out and run the court; damn, Dr. J would get slaughtered in the low paint banging today..

I think the NBA got away from calling fouls because they said "well, if we call this foul, with bigger players, we'll be calling fouls all night" eh.. maybe. But I don't think that would last too long.. I think you'd go a few games like that, but if you enforced the rules, the play would change.. teams couldn't afford people sitting on the sidelines fouled out all the time.

After getting some of those NBA DVDs that have come out, the Complete History of the L.A. Lakers, and the Larry Bird collection, and watching those games it just makes me really sad. As Chris said, yeah the games were high scoring but the players also knew how to play defense. Plus, with fewer teams the rosters were deeper and so the teams were better on average. I can watch current NBA games and not be in to them at all even if my favorite team is playing, but lord I was hooked on the Bird/Wilkins shootout from the 88 Eastern Conference semifinals found on the Bird DVD. Tremendous game, and miles better than anything I've seen lately. The NBA has its good games now and again, but from the style and tempo I've seen in these older games and what I remember growing up, this era just can't hold a candle. i know these discs showcase the best of the best in terms of games, but its really the style of game that I have come to enjoy.

As a side note, I won't watch either game this Christmas. Even though I have a team interest in the second game, I've got the winer currently wearing a Lakers uniform playing a winer that should still be wearing a Lakers uniform...and I've got football on another channel, so I'll take that instead. Let the 2 stars engage in their game of one upsmanship and while it is true that I prefer Shaq to Kobe it is also true that I would rather be kicked in the face than kicked in the groine.

I hope a team like Phoenix wins it all. I don't think Seattle win because a lot of what they are doing relies on the 3 point shot which is not a bad thing, but I don't know that they can shoot such a high percentage come playoff time.

I also agree with Chris, I love watching Lebron.

Jan, I'll try and keep this short.

I want Shaq and the Heat to win this game because I think that this is the quickest way to make Kobe start to realize a few things that I think he has missed out on. Things that once he realizes them will make him better, and will ultimately make the team better. I don't think he'll learn these things as quickly if he manages to score a big victory over his former team mate and his new team. I want the Lakers to be in the elite teams again as quickly as possible and if that means that Kobe has to lose a game to Shaq, than that's what I want to happen.

Besides, its a game in december that is only notable because it is the first meeting between the 2. Other than that, it is pretty well a meaningless game. Its not like I wrote that I hope that Shaq and the Heat beat Kobe in game 7 of the NBA finals.

I don't think the Lakers should've made the Shaq trade, I think they could've had both present and future success by keeping Shaq and letting Kobe go. We'll never know if that is the case because they didn't keep Shaq, but I am not going to apologize for feeling the way that I do.

I was glad that the Lakers lost to Detroit in the finals because they redefined selfishness to a whole nother level and if the Lakers had won I believe the game itself would've been harmed, that's how much they bothered me. I didn't come to that realization until sometime after game 3 had ended, but its true. I will root for my team to fail if I think it will lead to success down the road. I liken hoping Shaq wins this game to hoping that the Raiders lose to have a higher draft pick in the NFL, because that high pick may turn in to a player that helps tthem get back to the playoffs faster.

The Lakers didn't get to be the most successful team in the NBA, and one of the most successful pro sports franchises by resting on their past success. So why should I as a fan be expected to rest on their past success. If that is one of the biggest selling points of the organization that they won't rest on their history, then why should I let myself rest on their history? I think the trade was bad, and in some ways went against the way the organization had achieved a lot of its success, so I question it. I will not stop questioning it simply because they have 14 banners hanging in the rafters.

Just so you know, I also happen to think that Shaq could stand to be humbled a bit by a loss to Kobe, but I'm not rooting for that to happen because how Shaq acts with his team and the team chemestry of the Miami Heat is of no interest of mine. So sure, I think the loss might have the same effect on Shaq as it would Kobe, but what do I care if Shaq lets his ego run a muck down in Miami....better there than in Los Angeles. I could care less if the Heat would be better off long term by losing this game, its of no concern of mine.

I want Kobe and the Lakers to beat San Antonio, Minnesota, Phoenix, whoever...but I happen to think that the Lakers especially Kobe will learn a lesson by losing to Miami, and so I hope they have a chance to learn it. I could be wrong and losing might have no effect on Kobe, but I'll take my chances.

Well, that explanation makes some sense, I suppose, but I'll just reiterate what I've said before. Shaq's exorbitant contract extension demands (something like $90 million over three years) would've crippled the franchise for a decade. Regardless of the Kobe/Shaq rift, Buss did the right thing in trying to get some value for him before he walked. Could he have gotten more? Maybe. But Shaq was clearly forcing Buss's hand.

I do too also like watching Lebron.

More comments:
80's ball: Alot of what made the 80's ball worth watching is the fact so many players had the ability to shoot a jumper. That is a tough thing to see nowdays. It's all about the dunk to impress your friends and posse. You hardly ever saw a punch thrown in the past, Today its like every other week. Someone takes offense to something and needs to throw down. I'll watch the playoffs now(some) but its tough for me to watch a regular season game. People simply can't score now w/o slamming it down. This is slowly changing it appears as teams like Seattle and Utah are pure shooters and actually playing like a team.

Kobe scores a bunch. Shaq fouls out late in the 4th. Kobe promptly loses interest and disappears in OT, allowing the Heat to win by 2.

where did this thread go? where did Seth go?

So how long is Kobe out of action from that nasty sprained ankle? What if the Lakers play better with Kobe out of the lineup?

Last I heard it was 4 to 6 games.

Well, I was way wrong on the Suns...they're for real alright.

This Pistons fan is not exactly disappointed to have the Suns coming into Detroit tomorrow on a 3-game skid.

Well, it seems like the Pistons are finally getting it together a bit, but I would not be surprised if Joe Dumars makes some sort of move. People around here tend to forget that Detroit still has Carlos Delfino coming back at the end of this month, and that will be a nice offensive boost.

The Suns look good, but they were due for a bit of a slide eventually. I remember the MLK day game last year is what kind of sparked the Pistons on a run. It was against San Antonio and Detroit beat them. I truly think thats when the Pistons thought they could hang with anyone. I hope they get the same feeling from the Suns tomm.

Brandon

Washington scores 120 against Dallas, gets creamed.

Man, scoring really IS up this season. A combined point total of 257 points in regulation and no overtime, I wonder when the last time that happened was?

Anyone else see San Antonio-Phoenix last night? What an amazing game! One point difference at halftime, then the Suns explode in the 3rd to lead by 17 going into the 4th, with Marion scoring 14 in a row for them at one point. Massive Spurs comeback (40 pts in the 4th!) gives them a lead in the final minute, only to have Marion sink a crazy 3 at the buzzer to send it to OT. Then the Spurs pull away to win 128-123. Duncan had 30 and 19, Matrix had 37 and 15, Stoudemire 35, and Ginobli was on another planet, 48 points on 16 of 22 from the field! And he had one of the dunks of the season in OT, driving the lane and throwing down with two hands on absolutely everyone in the gym.

In other news, I'm glad the Pistons picked up Carlos Arroyo. They could use some backcourt help, and he brings it. I read one story a couple of months ago about how Detroit was probably going to go after Frank Williams from the Bulls for some backup PG help, but this is obviously a much better move.

Well its been awhile since anyone has posted in this thread...I don't know but maybe this season just isn't as fun to talk about as last year? No Shaq/Kobe infighting to keep things moving?

So L.A. is looking for a new coach...again. I don't know the entire story of what was up with Rudy T and his decision to leave, but I like the guy a lot and wish him well.
In the meantime the Lakers are hanging on to a playoff spot for dear life.
Denver seems to have gotten a lot better since the coaching change which would mean that they and Memphis have done it this year.
Phil Jackson might come out of retirement and coach again, I'd love to see him with a team like the Knicks with no game changing superstar in site.
A question for all the Pistons fans, is it pretty much assumed in those parts that Larry Brown is done at the end of this season? It seems to me that he's rumored to either want out of the game, or his name is in connection with other coaching jobs in spite of the fact that he already has a job of his own. So what's the read in Michigan? I get most of my NBA stuff from this thread anyway.
It is reported that Reggie Miller is playing his last season in the NBA. I always liked Reggie as a player.
No Kings on the Allstar team? I'm a bit surprised by that of course I was wrong about them earlier this season I thought for sure they'd implode. Minnesota from time to time looks more like the team that's likely to flush the whole thing down the toilet.
Hmmm, what else, oh how bout them Bulls?

I don't think anyone will ever be able to figure out what Larry Brown's going to do until it happens -- including Larry Brown. After the whole Knicks fiasco a few weeks ago, he claimed that Detroit would be his last NBA job, but I don't think anyone really beleives him. I don't think Larry ever unpacks when he moves to a new town and team -- he just leaves the suitcases packed at the door waiting for the next town.

Larry Brown loves to teach and build a team. I don't think he ever anticipated winning so quickly here, so now he may be looking for another rebuilding challenge. Who knows?

He's the anti-Phil. They are both great coaches, but they have drastically different situations that they like to enter in to, although Detroit was already winning lots of games when he got the job.

The Miami Herald reported that Shaq is probably out for the rest of the season after suffering a torn knee ligament last night.

I saw that he went out with a knee injury, but the only news that ESPN reported was that he was scheduled for an MRI. If the Herald's report is true, Miami's title hopes just went down the tubes.

The Miami Herald just retracted their story, so Shaq is still day-to-day until the MRI shows otherwise.

That's good. I'm no fan of Shaq, but you hate to see a team go down because of injury. I prefer seeing them go down because your team beat them instead.

Webber got traded to the Sixers.

Chris Webber, Matt Barnes, Micheal Bradley for Brian Skinner, Kenny Thomas, and Corliss Williamson.

Wow...Petrie's made some unpopular moves before that were actually brilliant (Jason Williams for Bibby, Turkolu for Miller), but this one seems like the opposite. I know there was a significant portion of the Kings fanbase that was tired with Webber, and the whole Stojakovic conflict thing, but I can't see how this is a good trade for them, especially since the trade is not a salary dump.

Philly will probably move past Boston with the trade, win the division, and hopefully that means a third seed will be over .500 (every team in the Atlantic still has more losses than wins).

I read a report that Golden State and New Orleans were talking turkey on a Barren Davis trade.

They kept a guy who is willing to play while injured and try to carry the team on his back (Webber) for a bunch of scrubs. Yet they keep the one-dimentional jump shooter who's been out forever with a tender hammy (Peja.) Even on one leg, C-Webb is still pulling down his usual 20-10-5, including 4 triple doubles this season.

There were rumors in the last week that LA wanted to trade Odom for Peja. Why this didnt happen instead I'll never know. I guess you arent allowed to trade injured players if they are not cleared by their gynecologist.

It's surprising that the Kings did not get more for Webber. I would have thought his value would be higher. I guess all the injuries lately have dropped his trade value around the league. Anyway, Philly just got stronger, while the Kings improved their draft position in the offseason.