Nice post, Nathan--enjoyed reading your comments. -p
10/7/04 at 11:10pm
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Rush Vapor Trails Remastered?
10/7/04 at 11:14pm
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Somebody previously did state that the mix on the lp is better. Maybe not as good as we'd all like, but still better than the CD.
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.
KevinVision 7.1 ...
5/21/05 at 2:04pm
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- Post Count: 262
So any word on the remaster? It was listed on the Atlantic site as an item you could pre-order. But now I've read on Power Windows that Atlantic has delayed the expected June release. Does anyone know more?
5/21/05 at 4:25pm
- Joined: July 2003
- Post Count: 575
From a rush fan site:
Quote:
| Vapor Trails Remaster, what's the deal?: Apparently Atlantic Records has once again delayed the release of the Vapor Trails Remaster. Although Atlantic's Rush page still offers it for sale, those that preordered the item from Atlantic's site received the below email just yesterday: "Thank you for ordering from Atlantic Records Online store. Unfortunately, Vapor Trails-Remastered, is no longer available for sale and has been canceled from your order. Be assured that you were not billed for the order as it never shipped to you. It is our policy not to bill for items until they have shipped. Again, our sincere apologies and thank you for your understanding. We hope that you visit us again." - Email from Atlantic Records, May 16, 2005 Problems with the original release were chronicled in this article written shortly after its original release. What has been confirmed is that the album has been remastered. The question is why is Atlantic delaying its release? - May. 17, 2005 |
5/21/05 at 5:23pm
- Joined: August 1998
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Is Atlantic offering a free replacement for this obviously defective first release?
DVD Reviewer, digitallyOBSESSED.com | Othyrworld
5/21/05 at 8:59pm
- Joined: August 1998
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Quote:
| This silence and absence of a remaster must mean SOMETHING, given the fact that they are obviously not too shy to release remasters (isn't every album now remastered except VT?). So what can we conclude from this? |
DVD Reviewer, digitallyOBSESSED.com | Othyrworld
5/22/05 at 5:59pm
- Joined: May 2000
- Post Count: 4,099
Quote:
| Is Atlantic offering a free replacement for this obviously defective first release? |
Just because you don't like the way it was mastered, does not mean it was "defective". Obviously, the way they released it was as intended by the record company.
I'll take a "wait and see" approach to see if this comes out, and if it is signifigantly better than what was released.
Jason
5/23/05 at 7:03am
- Joined: August 1998
- Location: Othyrworld
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Quote:
| Just because you don't like the way it was mastered, does not mean it was "defective". |
DVD Reviewer, digitallyOBSESSED.com | Othyrworld
5/23/05 at 7:53am
- Joined: May 2000
- Post Count: 4,099
Quote:
| Sorry, but the original release IS defective. This isn't a subjective observation, it is a glaring technical fault. When you can't play a CD without audible digital distortion, there is a defect. That this defect can be proven by those of us with professional analysis equipment at our disposal is further evidence. This should have been recalled from the beginning. |
The fact that you need professional equipment to prove your point, makes my point. Maybe it is because I don't have golden ears, but I don't have a problem listening to Vapor Trails. Could things sound better? Perhaps. It does seem to be a victim of mush mixing, which isn't unique to this album, but I still like listening to the songs, and it still a lot more listenable than a few CDs in my collection.
Anyways, I don't think the record company is going to see it your way. A defect is a glitch in the process in getting out the product. I don't think that's the case here. I certainly think this is what the record company wanted to release. A poor mix? Probably. But a defect? probably not in their view.
Jason
5/23/05 at 8:01am
- Joined: March 2000
- Location: Hollywood, California
- Post Count: 3,644
Quote:
| . . . [it's] still a lot more listenable than a few CDs in my collection. |
-p
5/23/05 at 11:14am
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Quote:
| The fact that you need professional equipment to prove your point, makes my point. |
He said that he could *prove* it with the equipment, not that he needed the equipment to *notice* it.
That article that someone linked earlier is pretty clear -- there's clipping in the CD master.
"How wonderful it will be to have a leader unburdened by the twin horrors of knowledge and experience." -- Mr. Wick
5/23/05 at 12:26pm
- Joined: May 2000
- Post Count: 4,099
Quote:
| That article that someone linked earlier is pretty clear -- there's clipping in the CD master. |
Considering that seems to be the norm rather than the exception nowadays, I think my point is made.
I'm not defending it so much as pointing out that what Jeff (and others) view as a defect, isn't going to be viewed that way by the record company. It isn't a defect because that's the way the record company intended it to be released. It is like saying "..And Justice For All" was defective because it sounded like crap on CD.
A poor mix != defective. You may not like it, but it is what the record company decided was acceptable.
Jason
5/23/05 at 1:41pm
- Joined: August 1998
- Location: Othyrworld
- Post Count: 5,250
Quote:
| A poor mix != defective. You may not like it, but it is what the record company decided was acceptable. |
DVD Reviewer, digitallyOBSESSED.com | Othyrworld
5/23/05 at 1:53pm
- Joined: April 2000
- Post Count: 3,999
If they recalled every disc that produced audible nastiness as a result of being mastered too hot, they'd be replacing the lion's share of pop/rock CDs produced since the early-90s when over-maximizing become a popular mastering technique. Most of 'em aren't as horrible as "Vapor Trails" must be, considering all the complaints, but then again perhaps Rush fans are a bit pickier than the avg mainstream consumer?
It's not a defect, per se, rather just a horribly misguided search to maximize the loudness on CDs. But it's just one of many poor mastering techniques that became popular. For example, I hate noise reduction, but I have discs that suffer from it. I prefer to hear hiss than having it NR'd into the dirt (along with nice audible frequencies that should still be there), but I'd be hardpressed to call NR'd discs "defective" in a legal sense, even though I consider them such.
It's not a defect, per se, rather just a horribly misguided search to maximize the loudness on CDs. But it's just one of many poor mastering techniques that became popular. For example, I hate noise reduction, but I have discs that suffer from it. I prefer to hear hiss than having it NR'd into the dirt (along with nice audible frequencies that should still be there), but I'd be hardpressed to call NR'd discs "defective" in a legal sense, even though I consider them such.
\"Only one is a wanderer;
Two together are always going somewhere.\"
5/23/05 at 2:01pm
- Joined: April 2000
- Post Count: 3,999
^^^I should point out re above that I'm assuming the main problem with the "Vapor Trails" CD is over-maximization during the mastering process, but it also sounds like it was very poorly recorded in the studio, mixed via ProTools, and probably subjected to any number of other sound quality destroying practices.
\"Only one is a wanderer;
Two together are always going somewhere.\"
5/23/05 at 5:23pm
- Joined: August 2000
- Location: Santa Clara, CA
- Post Count: 5,707
Yes, yes: there is a big difference between massive amounts of compression, limiting, etc, (a "bad" mix) vs overloading in the digital domain (which is a mistake that shouldn't happen). But for a record company to admit that?
Shoot, one of the later Chili Peppers CDs also sounds as bad as this one...
Shoot, one of the later Chili Peppers CDs also sounds as bad as this one...
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.
KevinVision 7.1 ...
6/5/09 at 3:26pm
- Joined: March 2000
- Location: Hollywood, California
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Re: Rush Vapor Trails Remastered?
Perhaps this article has been linked to elsehwere and discussed but I don't think I've seen it.Alex Lifeson Interview
"Hate" to say "I told you so" but Alex has now acknowledged issues with their recording process:
Quote:
| Skip: So, shifting to something more recent, are we going to see a remix or remaster of Vapor Trails? Alex: You know, Rich Chycki just remixed a couple of the songs for the retrospective that’s coming out [Retrospective III], and he did such a great job that we’re so tempted to just remix that album, because we’ve never been pleased with the mix, and particularly the mastering on it. It’s a dangerous precedent that you set by doing that, because you want to go back and re-do a bunch of things. We were never happy with that one. There are a lot of reasons for that. We’re to blame for a lot of that. The way we recorded it was very impulsive. We didn’t spend a lot of time on getting sounds, and we used a lot of the stuff that we did in the writing phase, rather than re-recording things. So, to maintain the pure energy of what those ideas were, we gave up a bit on the sonic end. But, Rich just has this way of mixing and hearing this band that translates so well into our heads. He did a great job. He remixed “One Little Victory" and “Earthshine.” They sound so big and powerful and heavy and thick and round. Whereas, the original recordings are very compressed, and a little bright and scratchy. So, we listened to those and we thought “well, look, what is the point in remixing it really? We would just be doing it for ourselves…and…so…well, ok why not - let’s do it!” So, we’re sort of toying with the idea, when we have some spare time, of just remixing that whole album, just for our own peace of mind. Skip: Well, I think the fans would love that. In fact, before I did this interview…there are a couple of Rush fan message boards that I hop on once in a while, and I mentioned that I’d be interviewing you, just to see if there were any questions that I hadn’t already thought to ask, and the one that was hands-down the winner was, "Will there be a remix of Vapor Trails?" Alex: Yeah. Skip: Speaking for myself, I love that album, and I’m not so much an audiophile. But, I know that a lot of people were complaining about it. I guess it’s kind of a trend in mastering these days, where everyone pushes the levels so high that everything ends up clipping and distorting. Alex: Well, that’s exactly what happened, and it kills all of the dynamics. That record was a very emotional record for us, and it was very fragile. From the heavy stuff to the more melodic stuff, it was a very fragile representation of the band, in the way it was recorded. In mastering, unfortunately that’s exactly what happened. It was a contest, and it was mastered too high, and it crackles, and it spits, and it just crushes everything. All the dynamics get lost, especially anything that had an acoustic guitar in it. Anyways, it’s something that we’re thinking about. We’re kind of busy right now, we have our hands full. But it’s certainly something that, once we have some spare time, we could get Rich working on. He and I are doing a lot of stuff together these days. |
6/9/09 at 12:57pm
- Joined: January 1999
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Re: Rush Vapor Trails Remastered?
Ha ha ha!
"How wonderful it will be to have a leader unburdened by the twin horrors of knowledge and experience." -- Mr. Wick
6/30/09 at 8:26pm
- Joined: March 2000
- Location: Hollywood, California
- Post Count: 3,644
Frustratingly, Alex still doesn't seem to "get it": I'm annoyed by his statement that the only motivation to take some corrective action re that album's SQ would be personal/"for [themselves]." This comment comes in a conversation in which the interviewer explicitly mentions that this matter was at/near the top of the list of responses in an informal survey of what Rush fans would like the band to address.
7/1/09 at 6:03pm
- Joined: January 2003
- Location: Chicagoland
- Post Count: 149
The "One Little Victory" and "Earthshine" remixes on Retrospective III are a vast improvement over the original "Vapor Trails" release. I, for one, would love to hear the rest of the album remixed.
