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THE WIRE season 3 (ongoing thread) (SPOILERS!)

#91
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12/13/04 at 7:19am
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In an episode loaded with tense confrontations (Mouzone and Omar, Mouzone and Avon, Stringer and Colvin, Stringer and Avon, Mouzone/Omar and Stringer), there was also one that, in its own quiet way, was just as earth-shaking -- McNulty and D'Agostino. The expressions that passed over McNulty's face when he realized that D'Agostino was only there to pump him for information were fascinating. And when he pushed back from the table and walked away, it struck me as the beginning of some sort of redemption. OTOH, it was a good deed, and in the world of The Wire, no good deed goes unpunished.

M.
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#92
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12/13/04 at 8:38am
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I found myself feeling sad that Stringer was finally killed. He's such a selfish heartless prick but he was my favorite character (other than McNaulty maybe), and I hope to see the actor that played him get some more good roles.

I always thought that Stringer was smarter than Avon, but it turned out that Avon's street smarts superceded Stringer's intellectual smarts.

Seemed like Omar and Mulzone really wanted to savor the moment before they killed him.

Man, this is the best show I have ever seen. I mean, it's not even close. No one I know watches it unfortunately, and it's not a show you can pick up mid way through. I sure hope they keep the show going for as many seasons as possible.
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#93
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12/13/04 at 8:49am
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Quote:
I always thought that Stringer was smarter than Avon, but it turned out that Avon's street smarts superceded Stringer's intellectual smarts.

In a way, Stringer outsmarted himself. By the end of season 2, it looked like the biggest risk to Stringer would be Avon's anger when he learned that Stringer had D'Angelo killed. That didn't happen (and I still believe that, at some level, Avon knew D'Angelo was a liability -- as Stringer says when the truth is revealed: he did what Avon couldn't do).

But what ultimately catches up with Stringer are his machinations with the drug business. He entered into certain deals ("the Proposition Joe package", as Avon mutters in the meeting with Brother Mouzone), and then to protect those deals, he tried to have Omar remove Brother Mouzone. It's taken a whole year, but that's what finally caught up with him. Avon doesn't engineer Stringer's death, but he accepts that it's both inevitable and necessary to his own survival in the business.

M.
Zoloft and Paxil and Buspar and Xanex, Depacon, Chronaphin, Ambien, Prozac,
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#94
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12/13/04 at 8:52am
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Of course String lived long enough to throw Avon under the bus. The Wire is truly the best show in TV right now. I love ER and CSI but The Wire is on a whole different level.
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#95
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12/13/04 at 10:00am
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Michael,

You're right about the scene with NcNulty. It was very powerful in its own right. He saw that his thing with her was never going to be anything else but a user's relationship (either for sex or info) and he did the right thing by getting out. Dominic West did a great job of showing all the emotions playing through McNulty in his face.

This message ends with Todd.

Hey kid you got no class. Hit the bums, kid. Run like the devil. Get a tin can and take up mooching. Knock on back doors for a nickel.
Tell them your story. Make \'em weep. You could have been a meat-eater, kid. But you didn\'t listen to me when I laid it down.
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#96
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12/13/04 at 10:11am
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the fact that she was gonna pay for the info with sex was what got mcnutty. he was like naw, i'm the player here not you. i hate the way she contorts her neck. anyhoot. i think the thing that brought the episode home for me was not when stringer got shot but the dialogue between string and avon on the terrace. all avon wanted was to have his dream and stringer shot it down by saying we dont have to dream anymore. we got shit. avon knew he had stuff but he also remembered what slim said earlier. once you in the game, you in the game. and avon knew that. he also knew that there was more than just having "shit". he wanted more but didnt see a clear way to end the cycle. he saw that stringer tried to get legit but still had that ghetto thug mentality by trying to off clay davis. that's why he told string that was his fight to fight. didnt have anything to do with the organization. i love this show so much. and sorry to all the stringerbellas (i dont think any are on this board) but string had to go. it was shocking seeing him flee up the stairs and through the building and then that cold look in his eyes when omar told him his boy gave him up. string said there is nothing left just get on with the getting on if you're gonna do it. blam!!! damn good show.
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#97
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12/13/04 at 10:27am
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Quote:
the fact that she was gonna pay for the info with sex was what got mcnutty. he was like naw, i'm the player here not you.

If that was McNulty's problem, we would have seen it when D'Agostino made him wait in the hotel room while she worked a political function. She was clearly in charge, but McNulty didn't care as long as he got laid. This goes deeper.

In the previous episode, McNulty commiserated with Kima about how low and worthless D'Agostino made him feel when they had dinner together. Believeing it was over, he was surprised (and flattered) to get her call. But when he realized that she had called only because she needed information -- that, without that need, she wouldn't have thought twice about him -- you could see his interest evaporate. If he wanted to be "a player", he could have continued to play dumb and followed her upstairs. At their last dinner, McNulty saw himself through D'Agostino's eyes and didn't like it. At this dinner, he saw her -- just another operator in the machine that McNulty despises.

M.
Zoloft and Paxil and Buspar and Xanex, Depacon, Chronaphin, Ambien, Prozac,
Ativan calms me when I see the bills.
These are a few of my favorite pills.
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#98
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12/13/04 at 10:28am
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Shanice,

I think what McNulty saw was that he was being played for an angle. He knew (and I think was resigned to) the relationship being just a sex thing, but once he saw her reaching out to use him for inside information, he realized he had to let it go.

As for Stringer, he cornered himself, both literally and figuratively. Although, were it me, I might of taken my chances leaping out of one of those windows...

This message ends with Todd.

Hey kid you got no class. Hit the bums, kid. Run like the devil. Get a tin can and take up mooching. Knock on back doors for a nickel.
Tell them your story. Make \'em weep. You could have been a meat-eater, kid. But you didn\'t listen to me when I laid it down.
Stay off...

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#99
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12/13/04 at 6:59pm
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and it might be the first step in the transformation/redemption of mcnulty. in the past, he's had no qualms about bitching to whoever would listen all the problems and crap he saw going on within the department. it was always him alone(with a few other 'good police" like bunk and kima) who knew exactly what was going on, what needed to be done, and the best way to get it done. and he was never afraid of letting go a little inside info idf it would get the ball rolling the way he wanted to.

but here, he could see that all she wanted was the inside scuttlebutt about the amsterdam program, but for once, he kept quiet and didn't rat out department info. perhaps it was only his loyalty to colvin that caused him to keep what he knew to himself, but i'd like to think of it as something more. jimmy mcnulty finally realizing that a little cooperation and loyalty from him would come back to help him in the future. and that handshake with daniels looked as if it was a start to mending the rift between those two.

and boy, didn't avon just love telling stringer that the business problems he had with the state senator would have to be worked out in a business-like way, that he couldn't just go all street on him and whack him. this after weeks of hearing that same stuff from stringer about marlowe. he was enjoying that little payback.
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#100
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12/13/04 at 9:09pm
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Monday's New York Times had an interesting article on Idris Elba, who plays Stringer Bell. HBO's PR people must have been working overtime. Here's the link for anyone registered at the site:

Whacked! Another HBO Main Player Meets His End

It still cracks me up that McNulty and his archnemesis -- two guys from the streets of Baltimore -- are both played by Brits.

M.
Zoloft and Paxil and Buspar and Xanex, Depacon, Chronaphin, Ambien, Prozac,
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#101
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12/14/04 at 4:50am
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Dominic West is British? I had no idea. They both do a tremendous job.

EDIT: It's interesting to read about these guys playing such tough characters that, to so many, feel true to life and contrasting it with their real lives. Idris Elba DJ's and Michael K. Williams (Omar) has a background in dance.

This message ends with Todd.

Hey kid you got no class. Hit the bums, kid. Run like the devil. Get a tin can and take up mooching. Knock on back doors for a nickel.
Tell them your story. Make \'em weep. You could have been a meat-eater, kid. But you didn\'t listen to me when I laid it down.
Stay off...

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#102
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12/14/04 at 7:41am
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Quote:
Dominic West is British? I had no idea. They both do a tremendous job.


I found out West was British a year or so ago. Before that I thought he did a wonderful job as a British guitar player in Rock Star. I guess its the other way around.
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#103
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12/14/04 at 7:53am
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Quote:
Dominic West is British? I had no idea. They both do a tremendous job.
Which was added humor when McNulty worked to develop a British accent last season for the sting on the brothel.
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#104
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12/14/04 at 12:03pm
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I'm also somewhat sad to see String get got, mainly because I think Elba's acting has been one of the many strong suits of this show.

It will be interesting to see if Omar backs off Avon and the rest of the Barksdale crew now that Avon gave up String to him.

McNulty's expressions said it all: I don't think he minded too much being used for sex. He seemed to recognize that the tables were turned on him but was somewhat amused if mildly disturbed. I think it really turned him off that she was so crass about her approach to HIS WORK. Good police that he is, he couldn't stomach that.

BTW, anyone hear anything about a 4th season?
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#105
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12/14/04 at 12:13pm
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I have a sneaky suspicion that this maybe the last season due to its' poor ratings. I think that is why they (the writers/producers) are wrapping up loose plot threads ie Stringer's demise and Avon's eventual re-arrest. I could be wrong though.
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#106
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12/14/04 at 1:30pm
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Have the ratings been poor this season? I hope not because this is one of my two or three favorite things on TV.

This message ends with Todd.

Hey kid you got no class. Hit the bums, kid. Run like the devil. Get a tin can and take up mooching. Knock on back doors for a nickel.
Tell them your story. Make \'em weep. You could have been a meat-eater, kid. But you didn\'t listen to me when I laid it down.
Stay off...

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#107
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12/14/04 at 3:57pm
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Quote:
I have a sneaky suspicion that this maybe the last season due to its' poor ratings. I think that is why they (the writers/producers) are wrapping up loose plot threads ie Stringer's demise and Avon's eventual re-arrest. I could be wrong though.
According to the NYTimes story linked above, Stringer's demise was planned for a long time. After all, he started down that path when he had D'Angelo killed in prison; everyone assumed that would lead to some sort of confrontation between Stringer and Avon (or Brianna). And by the end of season 2, there was clearly something brewing with Omar and Brother Mouzone.

Quote:
Mr. Simon said the blueprint for Stringer's death was created two years ago. That the drug dealer became a must-watch figure is of little consequence, he said. "Holding on to a character and then twisting the story to serve the character?" he said. "There's no gratification in that for anyone. We're not doing a soap opera here."
I don't know about the ratings, but HBO has received enormous critical acclaim for The Wire, and they're in a tricky period now with the end of Sex and the City and the impending end of The Sopranos and Six Feet Under. So if David Simon wants to do another season, I'm sure they'll consider it.

BTW, I found a terrific interview that David Simon and George Pelecanos gave to NPR at the beginning of season 3. Well worth listening to, especially as we near the end of the season:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=3933251

M.
Zoloft and Paxil and Buspar and Xanex, Depacon, Chronaphin, Ambien, Prozac,
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#108
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12/15/04 at 9:03am
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It has been posted on tivocommunity that David Simon said in a chat session on hbo.com that they (the production crew) are working on a 4th and 5th seasons, but HBO will probably make a decision in January on whether to run them. The poster also reports that Simon said that he will be done with it after the 5th season.

Personally, I don't see how HBO does not pick up the last two seasons. Sopranos won't be back until '06, and then it will be done after that. The show receives universal critical acclaim, to hell with ratings! HBO already has our money in the form of sub fees and they don't have ad revenue to worry about. I just don't see the issue here.
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#109
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12/15/04 at 9:26am
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Today's Baltimore Sun has article talking about the series and the future of it. As I read it, Simon will be given a chance to develop the way the story might progress if filming continues.

'Wire' city hold breath (HBO yet to decide on series' renewal)
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#110
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12/15/04 at 9:46am
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I found this paragraph particularly encouraging:

Quote:
Simon will meet with HBO brass during the second week of January to discuss the future of the series. He said he has been told that rather than trying to explain the low ratings, he should go prepared to map out "where the show would go creatively" if there is a fourth season. In other words, he needs to give HBO a reason to believe in the dramatic future of the series before the cable channel will ante up $35 million for another season of 12 episodes.
It suggests that HBO is continuing its tradition of looking at content, not ratings.

M.
Zoloft and Paxil and Buspar and Xanex, Depacon, Chronaphin, Ambien, Prozac,
Ativan calms me when I see the bills.
These are a few of my favorite pills.
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#111
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12/15/04 at 11:14am
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Michael,

I read that too and I sincerely hope it is so.

I'm not sure what HBO would gain by cancelling such a critically aclaimed show, particularly when they love to pat themselves on the back for being the critics' darlings.

This message ends with Todd.

Hey kid you got no class. Hit the bums, kid. Run like the devil. Get a tin can and take up mooching. Knock on back doors for a nickel.
Tell them your story. Make \'em weep. You could have been a meat-eater, kid. But you didn\'t listen to me when I laid it down.
Stay off...

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#112
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12/15/04 at 1:10pm
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I'm sure HBO doesn't need the low ratings explained to them. They promoted the show from the secondary slot it occupied in its first two seasons (10pm with a lead-in from Sex and the City at 9) to the flagship Sunday night slot, and they did it with a show that depends more than most on viewers' knowledge of what happened in prior seasons. Couple that with the fall competition from the networks, and I doubt the numbers surprised anyone.

M.
Zoloft and Paxil and Buspar and Xanex, Depacon, Chronaphin, Ambien, Prozac,
Ativan calms me when I see the bills.
These are a few of my favorite pills.
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#113
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12/15/04 at 2:28pm
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I wonder if they also take into consideration those who tune into the various rebroadcasts throughout the week and TIVO/DVR numbers (if they track those).

This message ends with Todd.

Hey kid you got no class. Hit the bums, kid. Run like the devil. Get a tin can and take up mooching. Knock on back doors for a nickel.
Tell them your story. Make \'em weep. You could have been a meat-eater, kid. But you didn\'t listen to me when I laid it down.
Stay off...

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#114
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12/19/04 at 9:53pm
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A great finale. Everything is wrapped up very well so if this is the last of the series, they've tied up all the ends.

There were some nice parallels and connections to the prior seasons: The camera panning past election posters for Frank Sabotka in the scene with Omar tossing a bag into the water. Also the end court scene with Barksdale, this time with Marlo in the courtroom rather than McNulty.

There were transitions for the main players: McNulty going back to a beat, Kima cheating, Daniels gaining rank, while still keeping that "the more things change, the more they stay the same" feel to it. Individuals have come, gone, and changed, but the city and the streets and the game keep grinding on.

EDIT: It was also nice to see McNulty turn a corner with his life as well as with the job.

If this was the end, it was a great end. But I hope not.

This message ends with Todd.

Hey kid you got no class. Hit the bums, kid. Run like the devil. Get a tin can and take up mooching. Knock on back doors for a nickel.
Tell them your story. Make \'em weep. You could have been a meat-eater, kid. But you didn\'t listen to me when I laid it down.
Stay off...

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#115
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12/20/04 at 10:22am
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Great episode. While a lot was wrapped up there is still plenty of story lines for a fourth season.

I laughed at the Dennis boxing and Daniels/Pearlman love scene going back and forth. It reminded me of the Naked Gun with trains going through tunnels, etc. Though I could have done without the Daniels asscrack shot.

Was that the body of Johnny that Rawls found? It looked like him.
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#116
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12/20/04 at 10:56am
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James,

You are correct. It was Johnny's body. As Bubbs would say, "That boy ain't got no luck."

This message ends with Todd.

Hey kid you got no class. Hit the bums, kid. Run like the devil. Get a tin can and take up mooching. Knock on back doors for a nickel.
Tell them your story. Make \'em weep. You could have been a meat-eater, kid. But you didn\'t listen to me when I laid it down.
Stay off...

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#117
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12/20/04 at 3:07pm
  • Joined: December 1998
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Quote:
connections to the prior seasons

The woman McNulty visited in the last episode, was the cop on the docks last season and it was nice to see he was there for more than a one-night stand. My wife and I agreed that this season resolved more things at the end of the season than in previous seasons.

This has been one of oour favorite TV shows. The writers have done a great job in developing the characters to where you know everything about them.

Lawn Ranger Motto: You're only young once, but you can be always be immature.

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#118
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12/20/04 at 3:46pm
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Quote:
I laughed at the Dennis boxing and Daniels/Pearlman love scene going back and forth. It reminded me of the Naked Gun with trains going through tunnels, etc. [b]Though I could have done without the Daniels asscrack shot.[b]
Kema operating with gusto, OTOH. . . :b
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#119
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12/20/04 at 3:55pm
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Damn shame what happened to Colvin though. He was by far the most noble of all the characters and got totally F.U.B.A.R.(ed) career-wise for his efforts. In retrospect, he should've taken the early retirement and took that primo security gig and said to hell with all the byzantine politics and backstabbing that made up Baltimore's power structure.
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#120
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12/20/04 at 4:21pm
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Daryl,

He was noble but also very naive to think that his operation wouldn't come back on him or his people.

This message ends with Todd.

Hey kid you got no class. Hit the bums, kid. Run like the devil. Get a tin can and take up mooching. Knock on back doors for a nickel.
Tell them your story. Make \'em weep. You could have been a meat-eater, kid. But you didn\'t listen to me when I laid it down.
Stay off...

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